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New Details in UNLV Shooting; Iowa Panel Says Haley Won Debate; Candidates Spar in 4th GOP Debate; War on Blue America. Aired 6:30-7a ET
Aired December 07, 2023 - 06:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[06:30:00]
LUCY KAFANOV, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The suspect outside but not before he killed three people, he injured one individual who was sent to the hospital with a gunshot wound, now in stable condition. Two police officers, law enforcement officers, treated for minor injuries and four students suffering panic attacks.
And just to set the scene, this was an incredibly busy time at the university. It is study week. Finals were coming up, so a lot of students were right here on campus. The sheriff said that there were tables set up outside of Beam Hall where students were playing Lego games and eating. And so he said a lot more lives could have been lost were it not for the heroic actions of those law enforcement officers.
The university president telling students, know that it is OK not to be OK.
Poppy.
POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Yes. Yes, that's a really important message. And this coming in Las Vegas just, you know, years after the most deadly mass shooting in modern American history in Las Vegas.
KAFANOV: Yes, and that's not lost on anyone here. We're just few miles from the Mandalay Bay Hotel, where in 2017 a gunman opened fire on that music festival -- concert music festival killing 58, injuring hundreds.
LeBron James, the NBA star, speaking out about gun violence in America.
Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LEBRON JAMES, NBA ALL-TIME LEADING SCORER: The ability to get a gun, the ability to, you know, to do these things over and over and over and there's been no change is literally ridiculous. It makes no sense that we continue to lose innocent lives, you know, on campuses, on schools, at shopping markets.
And, it's ridiculous. It's ridiculous. And the fact that we haven't changed anything it's - it's - it's stupid.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KAFANOV: A staggering 631 mass shootings in America so far this year alone. Yesterday's violence, Poppy, marks the 80th school shooting.
Poppy.
HARLOW: Wow. Wow. Lucy, thank you very much for your reporting.
Phil.
PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN ANCHOR: Well, on the battlefield this morning, Israel claims it has surrounded the leader of Hamas. Where the military believes he is now.
HARLOW: Also, voters weighing in on who they think won last night's Republican primary debate. One candidate stood out among the rest. We'll tell you who, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[06:35:51]
HARLOW: Well, today marks two months since the unprecedented terror attack on Israel and it launched the start of the war against Hamas. It is also the first night of Hannukah. This morning, Egyptian authorities are opening the Rafah border crossings so dozens of foreign nationals and dual citizens can leave Gaza.
Meanwhile, Israeli forces say they have the home of Hamas leader, Yahya Sinwar, surrounded in Gaza but they say he is underground. Israel is touting it as a symbolic victory. Saying it is, quote, "only a matter of time" before they are able to get him.
It comes as the United States expresses new concern over the number of civilian casualties.
MATTINGLY: Well, back here in the U.S., university presidents from Harvard, Penn and MIT are under fire following their testimony at a House hearing looking into anti-Semitism on college campuses. UPenn's president said on social media that she was focused on university policy when she testified before the committee.
Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LIZ MAGILL, UNIVERSITY OF PENNSYLVANIA PRESIDENT: A call for genocide of Jewish people is threatening. Deeply so. It is intentionally meant to terrify a people who have been subjected to pogroms and hatred for centuries and were the victims of mass genocide in the Holocaust. Policies need to be clarified and evaluated.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MATTINGLY: Now, that explanation was in response to what happened on Tuesday.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LIZ MAGILL, UNIVERSITY OF PENNSYLVANIA PRESIDENT: It is a context dependent decision, Congresswoman.
REP. ELISE STEFANIK (R-NY): It's a context dependent decision? That's your testimony today? Calling for the genocide of Jews is depending upon the context? This is not bullying or harassment? This is the easiest question to answer yes, Ms. Magill.
Yes or no.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It can be depending on the context.
STEFANIK: What's the context?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Targeted as an individual. Targeted at an individual. (INAUDIBLE) --
STEFANIK: It's targeted at Jewish students, Jewish individuals. Do you understand your testimony is dehumanizing them? Do you understand that dehumanization is part of anti-Semitism?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MATTINGLY: CNN's Athena Jones joining us now.
The blowback has been fierce. The blowback has been bipartisan. And, to some degree, it has almost been unequivocal. It was a mess. What's the blowback been like?
ATHENA JONES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely. Lot of blowback from alumni, from donors, from current students, from political leaders against all three of these college presidents' testimony as, you know, too lawyerly, too technical, too focused on maybe free speech, First Amendment issues and not on the issue of bullying, harassment and anti-Semitism.
New York Congressman Dan Goldman had this to say on Twitter. He said, "there's nothing contextual about calls for all Jews to be killed. Jewish students around the country are afraid. If colleges refuse to protect Jewish students from generalized bullying and harassment, the universities need -- either need a new code of conduct or new presidents."
We also heard from the governor of Pennsylvania, Josh Shapiro, speaking forcefully outside of a falafel shop that had been targeted by these pro-Palestinian protests. He said, "this was an unacceptable statement - that was an unacceptable statement from the president of Penn. Frankly, I thought her comments were absolutely shameful. It should not be hard to condemn genocide, genocide against Jews, genocide against anyone else."
And then finally we have a tweet from hedge fund billionaire Bill Ackman, who went to Harvard, but who has been very critical of these universities handling of instances of anti-Semitism. He said, "they must all resign in disgrace. Throughout the hearing the three behaved like hostile witnesses, exhibiting a profound disdain for the Congress with their smiles and smirks, and their outright refusal to answer basic questions with a yes or no answer."
So, these college presidents were trying to approach this as kind of the next step in a long running debate over free speech. That did not go over well with this audience. They said, you had to be much more forceful in calling that calling for genocide against Jews is harassment, it is bullying, it should go against the university's code of conduct.
MATTINGLY: I don't think this story is ending anytime soon based on what we've seen.
Athena Jones, thanks so much.
HARLOW: Donald Trump went pretty much unscathed last night at the Republican presidential debate despite being the front-runner by a lot. Warning of a potential second Trump presidency continue next. Ron Brownstein looks at what it could mean for blue states in his new piece, ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[06:44:19]
HARLOW: All that really matters is the voters in the end. And they are weighing in. After every debate, our Gary Tuchman assembles a group of Republican primary voters in Iowa to talk about how they thought the candidates did. The group has chosen a different winner for each of the first three Republican debates. So, call this one a tiebreaker with a decisive victor.
Here's Gary Tuchman.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): The fourth debate is over. But our fourth debate watch party with Republicans in Story County, Iowa, isn't finished yet. In the first three debates, the majority thought a different candidate won each time. Ramaswamy in the first, DeSantis in the second, Haley in the third.
And this time?
TUCHMAN: So, I'm going to ask in alphabetical order, who thinks Christie won the debate?
[06:45:03]
Zero of the eight.
Who thinks DeSantis won the debate?
One of the eight. Who thinks Haley won the debate?
One, two, three, four, five, six.
Who thinks Vivek Ramaswamy won the debate?
Zero.
One person didn't vote. That's Jim in the upper left. How come you're not voting there, Jim?
JIM, IOWA REPUBLICAN: I think Trump won.
TUCHMAN: And my guess is you think Trump won because he wasn't here.
JIM: That's right.
TUCHMAN (voice over): But it was Nikki Haley who had a decisive victory among this group in Story County.
TUCHMAN: So, why do you think Haley won?
BRETT BARKER, IOWA REPUBLICAN: Well, clearly, lately she's been the one with the momentum. So, I expected her to take a lot of hits tonight. And it's -- the debate started with them coming after her. And I think she handled it really well. I think she also just is strong on policy and she just is strong in these debates, a I think that's been a consistent part of her momentum is she's been a strong debater.
TUCHMAN: Judy.
JUDY HANDSAKER, IOWA REPUBLICAN: I agree with Brett that she had to dodge a lot of bullets tonight and she stood up to each one of them.
TUCHMAN: What do you think, Ray?
RAY REYNOLDS, IOWA REPUBLICAN: I think people shoot arrows at the people that are winning. I think she's winning.
TUCHMAN: Trey?
TREY, IOWA REPUBLICAN: Yes, I think that every hit that she took, she had a response back.
TUCHMAN: Megan, what do you think?
MEGAN DECKER, IOWA REPUBLICAN: I agree with everyone else that everyone was after her tonight in the debate, and I think she handled that with grace and charisma and was the most level-headed.
TUCHMAN: And, Jeff, what's your opinion?
JEFF ORTI, IOWA REPUBLICAN: Well, like - like everybody else, she weathered the storm. It was obvious they were coming after her because she's - she's got an edge in the polls, at least of that group. And, again, her foreign policy experience really shown through strong tonight.
TUCHMAN (voice over): Deborah Stoner had a different take.
TUCHMAN: Why do you think DeSantis won?
DEBORAH STONER, IOW REPUBLICAN: I think he's got executive experience and a record of winning. And that's going to be the most important thing in a primary and then in a general election. We have to beat Joe Biden.
TUCHMAN (voice over): So, regarding the Iowa caucuses, less than six weeks from now.
TUCHMAN: Most of you were undecided. I want to know, out of the eight of you, how many of you have made a decision about who you will caucus for. Please raise your hand if you have. So four of you have now decided.
TUCHMAN (voice over): The three people on the bottom row who have decided, from left to right, say they will caucus for Haley, DeSantis and Haley. The man on the upper left, as expected, says it will be Trump.
JIM: He has done it. He has been the president. He has made the tough decisions.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TUCHMAN (on camera): Poppy, Phil, only one person on our panel who at this point is positive he will caucus for Donald Trump. But, notably, I asked, who do you predict will win the Iowa caucuses. And the consensus among the eight people in our group, Trump.
Poppy. Phil.
MATTINGLY: That was Gary Tuchman.
Let's keep discussing.
Back with us are Scott Jennings, Karen Finney, and John Avlon.
All right, Avlon, what's your take when you watch the voters?
JOHN AVLON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: My take this shows that the caucus situation in Iowa is still very fluid. That the momentum is toward Nikki Haley. That a lot of the grass top leaders, including the governor, have basically given folks permission to find someone other than Donald Trump.
And remember that caucuses are a process of persuasion. And there are going to be some folks who are hard core Donald Trump, not going to go anywhere, but there are other people who are going to say, absolutely not, he's bad for the country, he doesn't represent our values. And we'll see who's got more gravitational pull.
Mu only point consistently has been, none of this is over. People haven't even started voting. And, you know, Frank Luntz, you know, did a little four group -- focus group on -- that we talked about on CNN late last night, and his group said that Chris Christie won that debate out of (INAUDIBLE).
KAREN FINNEY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: They also said Joe Biden won the debate last night.
AVLON: Oh, yes, of course you have to point that out.
FINNEY: Because - point - and, you know, when you see Chris Christie being booed for telling the truth about Donald Trump, that is a good night for Joe Biden. If anybody could have found this debate - if you happen to have "News Nation" on your cable channel or you were watching I thought it - I mean, so, in that sense, there were many moments that I felt like if more general election voters were watching, that is actually a good thing for the Democrats.
The second to the last thing I'll say is, with -- again, I go back to, you know, these dynamics that women candidates have to deal with. The fact that Nikki Haley, you know, did so well, and people thought she did well, showed that her strategy of just kind of staying above the fray really worked.
SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I agree with you there's some fluidity in the second tier. I don't really think there's that much fluidity with Trump. He is who he is and he's got who he's got. And they are very, very confident in their caucus building operation. You know, they've - they've got lots of confidence in what they start with and that's not going away.
DeSantis has a very, very robust and good operation in Iowa. He got the endorsement of the governor. I think despite the fluidity in that tier, they feel like their organization and the strength of the infrastructure is well beyond what Haley has been able - so, look, the Iowa caucus is somewhat about momentum.
AVLON: Expectations.
JENNINGS: Momentum. But also some - there is something to the push and pull of getting people into the gyms and voting for you.
AVLON: Yes.
JENNINGS: And I think Trump and DeSantis are still one-two in that.
[06:50:00]
MATTINGLY: All right, Scott Jennings, Karen Finney, John Avlon, thanks, guys.
HARLOW: Thank you, guys.
One of the Republican candidates on the debate stage will join us ahead. Chris Christie coming up in just a couple of minutes. Why he defended his rival Nikki Haley. MATTINGLY: And more on the funding fight over military assistance for Ukraine. Former U.K. prime minister, and current foreign secretary, David Cameron will lay out what's at stake.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: He's made it very clear, there's no mystery to what he wants to do. He started off his campaign by saying, I am your retribution. Eight years ago he said, I am your voice. This is an angry, bitter man who now wants to be back as president because he wants to exact retribution.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[06:55:07]
MATTINGLY: That was Republican Presidential Candidate Chris Christie last night raising concerns about a potential second Trump presidency.
HARLOW: This morning, "The Atlantic" magazine published another set of essays arguing that a second Trump presidency would be even more damaging than the first. One of those new essays warns that Trump will abuse power to go after blue states in his second term. That essay titled "A War on Blue America."
MATTINGLY: Joining us now is Ron Brownstein, a CNN senior political analyst and senior editor at "The Atlantic."
Ron, your -- the crux of your piece, I want to pull out one point in particular.
RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes, sure.
MATTINGLY: You say, "during his term in the White House, Donald Trump governed as a wartime president with blue America, rather than any foreign country, as the adversary." I think it - what I took from your piece that I thought was so interesting is, not what happens on a microlevel but what it would mean for the country going forward. What was your sense of that?
BROWNSTEIN: Yes. Well, look, yes, I mean I -- first of all, good morning.
I -- look, Donald Trump, as president, as I said, as you - as you quoted, I think did govern as a wartime president for red America, and most of that was - for most of his presidency that was through policy, trying to impose on blue states and blue cities, the policies favored in - in red states. I think you would see more of that in a - in a second term. Ideas like, you know, banning federal aid to schools that don't follow what Republican states have done on limiting the teaching of race or transgender youth policies or his threat to prosecute locally elected DAs who he calls Marxists and lunatics. So there's a lot of policy imposition on blue jurisdictions.
But what happened, as you know, toward the end of his presidency was he went way beyond that. And in terms of deploying and projecting federal force into blue cities over the objections of mayors and governors in most cases. And I - and he is being very clear that he intends to ramp that up in a second term. Door to door deportation, the largest ever, which would, obviously, unfold mostly inside of - of the large cities, sending in the National Guard in an unspecified kind of mandate to restore law and order, sweeping the streets of homeless, building internment camps.
You start - you put all of that together and it begins to look like the possibility of an occupying federal force in the nation's largest cities that in all likelihood will vote against him in large numbers if he's the Republican nominee. And that takes our current polarization, our sense that red and blue are hurdling away from each other, and raises it to a very kinetic, tangible, new level of conduct.
HARLOW: And this comes, your piece, sort of at the perfect time, Ron, because it's right after -- days after Trump, you know, didn't say, no, I won't be a dictator. He's talked about a day one. And then also talked about, you know, retribution and what that would look like. Fellow Republican, a very different Republican, Senator Mitt Romney, has responded to that.
Let's listen to him.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. MITT ROMNEY (R-UT): That's funny. I -- Donald Trump says so many absurd things that I don't even know how you respond to them. So, I - I sort of laugh and think he's trying to entertain his base. It's a dangerous course to go down, of course, but that's what he does on a regular basis. And I sort of laugh at what he's saying.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARLOW: So he's saying you've got to laugh at it. It's ridiculous. You're shaking your head because your article is, don't laugh at this. Look at his last year and then multiply it.
BROWNSTEIN: Yes, exactly. And Romney also said yesterday, I saw that he was quoted, that by promising this kind of retribution against, quote, "his enemies," Trump actually is speaking to a substantial portion of his base. You know we've had multiple polls where a majority, including some by conservative outlets, like the American Enterprise Institute, where a majority of Republicans have said the traditional way of life is disappearing so fast we may have to use a force to save it. We've had polls where half of Republicans or more described the January 6th insurrection in positive terms. I mean Trump is essentially promising to use national power to advance factional ends, to impose the priorities of red America on blue states and blue cities that are resisting it. And the new element I think is how much he envisions this being done through the projection of federal force. You know I talked to - one of the people I talked to for this story,
Michael Nutter, the former mayor of Philadelphia, pointed out that it would be chaos. I mean you could imagine scenarios where Trump is trying to use massive projections of border patrol or immigration forces to do this door to door deportation he's talking about and you can envision the Philadelphia Police Department or local neighbors resisting it. I mean we're talking about potentially, if you take him seriously and literally, you know going back to the old formulation, he is talking about using federal force in a way that could be seen in blue America as an attempt to impose red America's agenda by force.
HARLOW: Ron Brownstein, thank you so much. It's a really fascinating piece, "The War on Blue America" out in "The Atlantic" today.
[07:00:00]
We'll see you soon.
And CNN THIS MORNING continues right now.
