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Biden Administration Criticized for Delaying Ban on Menthol Cigarettes; Republican Presidential Candidates Excepting Donald Trump have Final Debate Before Iowa Caucuses; Donald Trump to Attend Civil Trial Concerning Trump Organization. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired December 07, 2023 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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RENE MARSH, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: They say that is the case because this has had such an outsized health crisis impact on the black community. Take a listen.

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DERRICK JOHNSON, CEO OF NAACP: If you don't ban menthol flavor you are sending a clear message that black lives do not matter. If it is not banned, it raises the real question, is this a discriminatory act by this administration to neglect the health concerns of the African American community?

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MARSH: Meantime, Republicans see this as a political liability for Biden. Conservative advocacy groups have focused political ads on this issue. You're looking at one there.

Meantime, Senator Tom Cotton, is talking about this as well, saying in a tweet, "Joe Biden wants to ban menthol cigarettes which are favored by black smokers. Meanwhile, he wants to legalize weed for white college kids." So Republicans are hoping to make this a wedge issue to siphon off some, even if a small amount, of Biden's voters in some of those battleground states like Nevada, Ohio, and Pennsylvania. The White House for their part, they have not given a clear reason for this delay.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: It's really interesting and important. Rene, thank you for tracking it.

And CNN THIS MORNING continues right now.

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VIVEK RAMASWAMY, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I don't have a woman problem. You have a corruption problem, and I think that that's what people need to know. Nikki is corrupt.

NIKKI HALEY, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It's not worth my time to respond to him. GOV. RON DESANTIS, (R) FLORIDA: Her donors, these Wall Street liberal

donors, they make money in China. They are not going to let her be tough on China, and she will cave to the donors. She will not stand up for you.

HALEY: He is mad because those Wall Street donors used to support him and now they support me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: There you have it. If you were up late last night watching the debate, it was fiery one. Good morning, everyone. I'm Poppy Harlow with Phil Mattingly in New York.

Four of the five remaining Republican presidential candidates sparred and traded insults during their final debate this year with less than six weeks to go before the Iowa caucuses. As you just heard Nikki Haley took the brunt of the attacks from DeSantis and Ramaswamy over her big ticket donors and her foreign policy positions. At one point, Ramaswamy even holding up a handwritten sign reading "Nikki equals corrupt." Chris Christie defended Nikki Haley last night and on our air just moments ago when he had this to say about her.

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CHRIS CHRISTIE, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Look, I disagree with Nikki on a lot of things, and I don't think she is strong enough to take on Donald Trump. I think she is absolutely avoiding doing it. She is playing prevent defense on the stage last night, trying to protect a lead she doesn't have. I don't think Nikki Haley should be our nominee and I don't think she should be president of the United States. But I'll tell you this, she is certainly a very smart and accomplished woman, and she deserves credit for what she has done in her career.

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PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN ANCHOR: Notably absent, of course, was the Republican frontrunner Donald Trump, who was left largely unscathed by the candidates, with the exception of Chris Christie. And if you don't say that, he is going to get very angry. We're going to talk to Jeff Zeleny about that in a little bit. Instead of hitting the campaign trail, Trump is expected to be in a New York courtroom in just a couple of hours in that $250 million civil fraud trial against his Trump Organization. The trial is expected it to wrap up early next week after Trump takes the stand again on Monday.

Let's bring in the aforementioned Jeff Zeleny live in Tuscaloosa, Alabama. Jeff, we'll get to the former governor of New Jersey in a second. But last night's debate -- the frontrunner, large margin, wasn't even there?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Phil, we will find out how voters really assessed all of this particularly, those Iowa voters, New Hampshire voters who begin this process in just about six weeks or so. But it certainly was that confrontation with Florida Governor Ron DeSantis and former South Carolina Governor Nikki Haley really going after one another throughout the debate, particularly DeSantis going after Haley, trying to slow her rise. She receded a bit into the background, likely by design, by strategy, trying to stay out of the fray. But he clearly was trying to make his case, his record on conservative issues known. This is one of those exchanges.

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GOV. RON DESANTIS, (R) FLORIDA: I am sick of Republicans who are not willing to stand up and fight back against what the left is doing to this country. And you have other candidates up here like Nikki Haley, she caves anytime the left comes after her, anytime the media comes after her.

NIKKI HALEY, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I actually said his "don't say gay" bill didn't go far enough because it only talked about gender until the third raid. And I said it shouldn't be done at all, that that's for parents to talk about. It shouldn't be talked about with schools.

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ZELENY: So that was just a little sampling of the pile on there on Nikki Haley. Most of her rifles going after her on some of her newfound donors, some from Wall Street, of course, on her position on China, on and on. Clearly, they are trying to slow her rise. But again, the Florida governor trying to make the case that he is the most social conservative candidate in this race.

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But without a doubt, it was former New Jersey Governor Chris Christie who was trying to get across the point that he believes Trump is unfit for office. and Phil, that is where he started with your interview with him last hour.

MATTINGLY: I mean, my guess is that you guys have probably spoken sense. He had a very sharp criticism that I didn't agree with. I will always defend you, Jeff, if it's not related to Nebraska football, but yes, it does appear, we are now showing a picture. You guys have had an animated discussion. I assume it was off the record, but if there's anything you'd like to share, we'll take it.

ZELENY: No, it wasn't often the record at all. The former New Jersey governor clearly has some urgency in his campaign right now. He went after Donald Trump without question during the debate, directly questioning his fitness for office. When he was quarrelling with me was saying that Donald Trump was the winner of the debate by not showing up on the debate stage. Christie said that simply is not the case.

We will see what voters say. The reality is Republican voters have not embraced this message. But perhaps New Hampshire voters did. He is leading here. You saw our conversation in the parking lot, very friendly conversation. I have covered him for a very long time, back to my newspaper days. So look, he is feeling some pressure and he is going to try to make his case to New Hampshire voters. And there are many who accept that argument that they do not believe Donald Trump is fit for office.

But the challenge here is the base of this Republican Party still controlled by Donald Trump is still supporting him. But not a single vote has been cast in this race yet. So let's take some time, be patient, see how the campaign proceeds through the holidays. But that was our exchange on this early morning here in Tuscaloosa.

MATTINGLY: I love the laptop open. A true newsman. Jeff Zeleny, as always, my friend, thank you very much.

HARLOW: Thank you, jeff. We love you.

All right, as he mentioned, in a few hours Donald Trump is expected to be off the campaign trail. He is going to be where? In a New York courtroom in the $250 million civil fraud trial against Trump. Kara Scannell outside the courthouse with more. Let's just remind people he is going there at I will. He wants to be there. It's not a criminal trial. He doesn't have to be there. He wants to be there. And this is as much political as it is a legal story.

KARA SCANNELL, CNN REPORTER: Yes, good morning, Phil and Poppy. Trump will be making his ninth appearance at this civil fraud trial. And as you said, it is not required that he be here, but this trial is about his business. Remember, it was his business reputation that helped catapult him to the White House the first time.

So Trump will be attending today. And what he will hear is the testimony of one of their last expert witnesses, a professor of accounting from New York University. Part of Trump's defense in this case, they have been accused of inflating the value of the properties that they own on financial statements that they've given to banks and insurers to get more favorable rates is that there complying with the accounting rules. And that is what this accounting professor is going to talk about today, that how they came up with the valuations for the properties, including the golf courses, is in compliance with U.S. accounting laws.

We've heard a lot of expert witnesses on the Trump defense side, but this is their closer in a sense, the person that is expected to provide the most comprehensive testimony about the accounting rules, and Trump is going to be here sitting through that. As you said, he skipped the debate last night, but the hallway cameras behind me are going to be on. He is someone who often speaks to the cameras when he is here.

And remember that the gag order in this case has been reinstated. So Trump will be restricted from making any comments about the judge's clerk. And one of the times that he was here in recent weeks, he did violate that gag order by statements he made in the hallway before those cameras. So it's going to be an intense time here. The temperature in the courtroom always rises when he attends, and he will be here, we expect, throughout the day, throughout this testimony, all leading up to him appearing on the stand and Monday when he will be his defense's final witness testifying for himself. Guys? MATTINGLY: So Kara, he is there today. He will definitely be there on Monday. Given we are in the homestretch headed to the Iowa caucuses, how does this play into his schedule in the weeks ahead?

SCANNELL: Well, Phil, this is just colliding his legal issues and the politics of it all. This case will end next week as far as the testimony goes. But then it will continue into next year. And that is where we seeing the Iowa caucuses in January. He will be back on trial in a civil case related to E. Jean Carroll where a jury will decide how much in damages he will pay for defaming her.

Then that brings us to February when we expect the judge in this case to issue his decision. Then we go right into March where we have super Tuesday, and then he will have two of the four criminal trials that he is facing. They are expected to kick off first in Washington, D.C., with the election subversion case, and then that will be followed by the hush-money case here in New York. Guys?

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MATTINGLY: Kara Scannell live for us, thank you.

HARLOW: Joining us now on all this, CNN political commentator, former Republican congressman Adam Kinzinger. Welcome. Good to have you back.

ADAM KINZINGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Great to be here.

HARLOW: What did last night mean?

KINZINGER: OK, so for somebody like me, I enjoyed watching it because I could pretend like the Republican party was semi-normal with one crazy guy on the stage kind of like it always used to be.

HARLOW: Who is that?

KINZINGER: Vivek, of course. The number of conspiracy theories he spouted even from January 6th to we are going back to 9/11 now to saying that the great replacement theory is fine and we should actually discuss that. I mean, it's a blatantly racist theory. But he was the crazy guy. The rest, I kind of look at that, it's like, ah, it's like the old Republican Party.

But Chris Christie, I think he cleaned up at that debate, because he was very clear. He acted as a moderator. He would answer the questions. And most importantly, he talked about Donald Trump. Again, it just blew me away to watch these other candidates unwilling or unable to talk about the frontrunner in this campaign. If they think there is some magic pony that's going to come along and wish him away, it's not going to happen. You have to take on the frontrunner. So obviously, in my mind, everybody except Chris Christie seems to be trying to preserve their name for a vice presidential candidacy or some cabinet.

MATTINGLY: Do you think that is the reason it is, because you want to be in a Trump administration or you are saving yourself for 2028? They know it will collapse, their polling, because of where the base it? KINZINGER: I think it's both. I think Ron DeSantis started out

believing that Donald Trump would fall apart when he was indicted. And so his play was to be mini-Trump. It's actually not a bad maneuver if you thought this was going to happen, where when Trump goes down, DeSantis could come up and be like, OK, I'm just like him. Boy, he got a bum rap. But now come and vote for me because you have no other choice.

That didn't happen. And that's the point at which you have to pivot. And none of them did that. And Chris Christie, I thought, was very effective. Whether it moves his numbers or not, I don't know, but he was very effective in saying you guys are running against former President Donald Trump. He is up by 40 points, and you can't even say his name. I mean, you cannot expect Donald Trump to lose a primary if the people running against him are only complimenting him and never saying his name.

HARLOW: The key issue in Washington right now about is the U.S. going to give more funding to Ukraine and Israel or is it all going to blow up because they can't come it a comprehensive immigration reform in a matter of works, you have a thought on that. We just had the U.K. foreign minister on.

KINZINGER: I was watching David Cameron's interview. And I'm like, how come nobody from the Biden administration, including the president, has ever made a case like that? His case was so effective and so simple and so true --

HARLOW: In what way?

KINZINGER: Look, Ukraine is making gains. They have taken back half their territory. They put the Black Sea Fleet, like nobody ever thought the Black Sea Fleet would be on the defense and basically hunkering in Crimea and trying to hold out. And all they need is more weapons. They've destroyed 20 percent of Russia's attack helicopters in one ATACM strike that we sent them. When you make those statements to the American people and you talk about the risk and what's at stake, they will follow you. I have not heard Joe Biden say that case, nobody from the administration, nobody from my party has effectively made that case. Not because it's not there to be made. It's absolutely there to be made. But for whatever reason, they are scared of talking about the importance of American leadership at this moment.

HARLOW: Adam Kinzinger, thank you.

KINZINGER: You bet.

HARLOW: It's always great to have you.

MATTINGLY: A new CNN poll showing over 70 percent of Americans have a bad view on the economy. How the president is navigating those numbers, that's ahead.

HARLOW: Also, Senate Republicans we were just talking about blocking a bill that would have sent billions of dollars of aid to Israel and Ukraine. Democratic Senator Alex Padilla joins us next to talk about what's going to happen from here.

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HARLOW: Welcome back, so this morning, billions of dollars in U.S. Aid to Israel and Ukraine is looking more uncertain than before. Senate Republicans last night blocked this emergency spending bill demanding tougher immigration measures at the southern border.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, U.S PRESIDENT: We can't let Putin win it's in our overwhelming national interest and the international interest, of all our friends.

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM, (R) SOUTH CAROLINA: We're more exposed here at home in the short term than Putin winning in Ukraine.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Joining us now, is Democratic Senator from California, Alex Padilla. Senator, it's great to have you. Let's listen to something else President Biden said about his willingness to make, quote, "Significant compromises on the border to get this funding for Ukraine and Israel through.", here he was.

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BIDEN: I've already laid out in our negotiations with Lankford and others what we're willing to do significantly more, particularly by starting off equipping the border capacity that we need on the border from judges to more border security, in addition to making some substantive changes, but they're unwilling to do it.

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HARLOW: Senator, what significant changes on the border are you willing to compromise on?

SEN. ALEX PADILLA, (D) CALIFORNIA: Look, well, first of all, I appreciate you replaying the President's statement yesterday that he's already put a plan forward. And if Republicans were sincere and genuine about truly negotiating a more secure border, they would have voted to begin debate and discussion on that bill.

They had a prime opportunity to bring forward their plans or their amendments to the president's package, but they voted no. They're not ready to genuinely talk, they're not ready to genuinely negotiate, and don't take my word for it. Republicans themselves are saying this is not a negotiation, this is a take it or leave it.

This is a price for supporting the overwhelming bipartisan aid to Israel package and the significantly bipartisan aid to Ukraine package. So, this is not the way to go about negotiations and certainly not for policy areas as complex important, and consequential as border security.

HARLOW: Well, let's talk about one of the key sticking points, and that is the issue of parole, which is, by the way, a policy that Trump used at times during his administration as well. But it's essentially releasing sometimes to work into America those that cross illegally.

The really interesting part of all of this is that you've had some Border Patrol Officials, including one who testified before staffers, both to staffers on your Homeland Security Committee, who said, look, if you don't change parole, it encourages crossings, let me quote from them.

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"The belief that they are going to be released with no consequences is certainly something that many migrants tell our agents." Why not curtail parole if it incentivizes more crossing?

PADILLA: So, look, we're not saying no, what I've said is the devil is in the details. And let's also remember that it is not unlawful for somebody fleeing persecution, for somebody fleeing a natural disaster to come to the United States to seek asylum.

So, whether it's reforming the asylum system, reforming how parole is used by the Department, by the President, or others, those are valid policy discussions. That's not what's before us, it's a supplemental budget bill, a budget

request by the President.

But fine, if this is where we are, let's engage in genuine conversations. Here's another frustration I've had, Poppy, because I've been involved in discussions with Senator Lankford and several of my Republican colleagues. They're trying feverishly to keep it restricted to the border.

When you talk about immigration, it's like trying to squeeze one end of a balloon. What's going to happen at the other end? There are dynamics that are impacted. If you want to talk about reducing the flow, reducing the numbers of people coming to the southern border of the United States, you got to look at what's pulling them here or what's driving them here.

And when I put that on the table, they don't want to talk about it. They only want to talk about more Border Patrol Officers. I appreciate the President saying we need more judges, more capacity to hear these genuine asylum cases, make determinations, who's eligible, who's not.

But the last I checked, Republicans are trying to cut the budget, not add resources.

HARLOW: I understand you're saying H.R.2, which is largely what Republicans in the Senate want, does mainly address the border, but you have to deal with it at the root and the border. But, Senator, just yes or no, before we move on to another important topic, will the Senate go on recess without getting this done, without getting more aid to Israel and Ukraine voted on? PADILLA: Yeah, I certainly hope not. But that's, I think a question

for Leader Schumer, Leader McConnell, President Biden, the Speaker, Majority Leader in the House.

HARLOW: Feels like it right now.

PADILLA: What I will say is this, discussions are not over until we solve the problem. Immigration as a whole is way overdue. We haven't modernized our immigration system in decades. But when Republicans come and say, H.R.2 take it or leave it, that is not a genuine negotiation.

HARLOW: Do you believe, along with Senator Van Hollen, Senator Welch, and Senator Sanders, that there should be conditions for aiding Israel?

PADILLA: I think there's a conversation every time there's an aid package of how we're working with our allies on --

HARLOW: No, but I'm asking you. I'm asking you, it's a really clear cut among Democrats in the Senate. Either some say no conditions or some say yes conditions. Where do you fall?

PADILLA: Look, I think there's different ways of imposing conditions, sometimes it's in the language of the bill. Sometimes it's how we're working with our partners hand in hand to oversee activities. I will insist on this, it's not just military aid, significant humanitarian aid needs to flow to the region.

We need to deliver significant aid that's needed for the innocent Palestinians who are also victims of the violence in Gaza. They are the biggest victims of Hamas over the years, their future is better once Hamas is eradicated.

HARLOW: Yeah, well, I think everyone can agree on eradicating Hamas. To politics, before I let you go, of course, 2024. There's a new CNN poll, it doesn't look good for President Biden. His approval rating has sunk to 37 percent.

71 percent of voters Senator, do not think Biden is doing a good job on the economy. They view this economy as somewhat or very poor, are you concerned that may sink his reelection chances?

PADILLA: Okay, I'm concerned that we need to continue to be better about messaging to voters what we have done to help create jobs, to tackle inflation, which is now down significantly compared to a year ago, to invest in infrastructure that is the foundation for a strong economy, not just next year, but for decades to come.

We have a lot to be proud of, President Biden has been the leader in getting all this done, and that's what campaigns are for. You covering the debate last night, a lot of focus has been on the Republican Primary once they have an official nominee, and it's a choice between President Biden and what seems likelier every day, Donald Trump.

I think the contrast in the choice is going to be very clear, and we're going to be celebrating President Biden's reelection next November.

HARLOW: If it is Trump, though, more Americans think he would handle the economy better than they think Biden would right now. We'll see where it goes, Senator Alex Padilla, thank you.

PADILLA: Thank you, have a great day.

HALROW: You too.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN NEWS ANCHOR: The pregnant Texas woman denied an abortion, and now she's suing the state. The latest on her lawsuit and a breeding ground for predators. That's what the New Mexico Attorney General is calling Facebook and Instagram, we're going to speak with them ahead.

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MATTINGLY: Happening today, in just hours, a court in Texas will hold an emergency hearing to decide whether a pregnant woman in the state can have an abortion. Kate Cox, who is 20 weeks pregnant, filed a lawsuit this week saying her unborn baby has a genetic condition and carrying the child to term could threaten her life.

The lawsuit also says the baby is not expected to live more than a few days outside the womb. Texas Law prohibits abortion after approximately six weeks, except to save the life of the mother or to prevent, quote, substantial and irreversible physical impairment of a major bodily function other than a psychological condition.

Cox thinks Texas' Abortion Law is too vague, particularly with her condition, and could put her and her doctor at legal risk if she has an abortion. The Texas attorney's general office did not immediately respond to CNN's request for comment.

HARLOW: A new lawsuit accusing Meta of creating a quote, "breeding ground" for child predators on Facebook and Instagram. The lawsuit has been filed by New Mexico's attorney general, we will speak with him in a moment.

It is the latest in a series of legal actions related to alleged harm to young users enabled by the social media giant, according to the complaint, which also names Meta CEO Mark Zuckerberg as a defendant.

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