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Raul Torrez is Interviewed about his Lawsuit Against Meta; Rep. Michael Lawler (R-NY) is Interviewed about the Funding Battle. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired December 07, 2023 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:30:00]

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Enabled by the social media giant, according to the complaint, which also names Meta CEO Mark Zuckerberg as a defendant.

Quote, "Meta's recommendation algorithms have created a marketplace to connect pedophiles, predators and others and allow them to hunt for, groom, sell and buy sex with children and sexual images of children at an unprecedented scale."

As part of this investigation, the attorney general's office created a (INAUDIBLE) Instagram accounts featuring AI generated images of children, such as this one depicting Isa B. (ph), a fictional 13-year- old Albuquerque girl. And the complaint states that these decoy accounts were served, quote, a stream of egregious sexually explicit images, even when the account never expressed interest in the content.

Meta denies these claims and denies that its platforms put children at risk. A spokesperson from Meta tells us, quote, "we use sophisticated technology, we hire child safety experts, we report content to the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children and share information and tools with other companies and law enforcement, including state attorneys general, to help root out predators." Meta also says it has removed hundreds of thousands of accounts, groups and devices for violating its child safety policies.

But New Mexico's attorney general says Meta has failed to make sufficient changes, arguing, quote, "Meta's business model of profit over child safety and business practices of misrepresenting the amount of dangerous material and conduct to which its platforms expose children violates New Mexico law."

And we are joined now by the attorney general of New Mexico, Raul Torrez.

Mr. Attorney General, thank you for joining us.

I think every parent is certainly listening up right now.

RAUL TORREZ (D), NEW MEXICO ATTORNEY GENERAL: Yes.

HARLOW: What remedy are you looking for? What do you want to protect these kids?

TORREZ: Well, fundamentally, we're looking for a culture shift inside of Meta. These platforms are simply not safe. And despite the assurances that we've heard from Mr. Zuckerberg and other executives at the company, both the policymakers, members of Congress and parents, they simply are not doing enough. They're, in fact, misleading people about the danger involved in these platforms and they have failed to take meaningful steps to correct features of these platforms. They're designed in a way to actually funnel likely victims of sexual exploitation to potential predators, not just in this country, but around the world.

HARLOW: You, interestingly, don't just name the company, you name the CEO, Mark Zuckerberg, individually as a defendant. He posted as recently as 2021, "it's very important to me that everything we build is safe and good for kids."

How do you sue for a culture change?

TORREZ: Well, we're suing for injunctive relief. We're going to be asking a judge to make specific changes to the way in which these platforms organize and feed content. But we're also going to be asking for warnings. You know, for decades we have put and required warnings to consumers about the dangers that are associated with products and services. And that's the kind of relief we'll be looking for.

HARLOW: Why -

TORREZ: With respect to Mr. Zuckerberg, he has been instrumental in making misleading comments about the safety of the platforms and he has had a direct involvement in the features that we think need to be changed.

HARLOW: I wonder, before your team filed this, more than a 200-page complaint, did you take what you found to Meta and ask for those changes specifically? I know you've submitted online through their portals these issues and didn't see them resolved, but did you go to them and say, change this or we're going to sue?

TORREZ: No, we didn't. And in part because of the experience that my fellow attorneys general have had in dealing with Meta. They've been meeting with them for a number of years on a lot of the mental health components. We just haven't seen any sign from Meta or its executives that they're willing to engage in meaningful changes. They're doing a lot of things that I think are probably cosmetic, but they're not fundamentally changing the platforms in ways that would make it safe for children.

HARLOW: You know, one thing that is striking in the complaint is that in your state of New Mexico, Native Americans represent about a fourth of the trafficking victims. More than double their share of the state population. So, they're really being victimized here.

My question to you is, what prompted this? Were there actual cases brought to your office and then that prompted a deeper investigation? TORREZ: They're not - yes, they're - yes, there have been cases in New

Mexico and, frankly, across the country where these social media platforms, Facebook in particular, have been the conduit by which predators have identified and targeted young child victims. And so that combined, frankly, with my own past experience in an internet crimes prosecutor really led me to focus in on this issue. I applaud the efforts of - of the attorneys general who filed a separate complaint focusing exclusively on those mental health claims.

[08:35:02]

And we've included that in our complaint as well. But we felt that this was an aspect of the conduct by Meta that really needed to be addressed and comprehensive.

HARLOW: Mr. Attorney General, one thing that is shielded these social media companies is part of our law, and that is section 230 that essentially says they're not liable for what is on their platforms. Do you not see your case and your argument running counter to that? I mean how do you have that hold up in court when the Supreme Court, you know, sidestepped ruling on that earlier this year?

TORREZ: Yes, it's -- in looking at some of the recent cases out in California and Oregon and other places, there's been an evolution in how Section 230 has been applied. This is really not about trying to hold them liable for the content. It's about, number one, misleading consumers and, number two, how they have designed this - how they have designed those platforms and organized them. They've actually amplified and channeled this content to vulnerable members of our community. And so that, we believe, will be a new approach to how we handle these what I'm sure will be a defense raised under Section 230.

HARLOW: Mr. Attorney General Torrez, thank you very much for your time. Of course, we welcome representative from Meta to join us as well as discuss this. It's a really important issue. Thank you.

TORREZ: Thank you.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN ANCHOR: Well, former Speaker Kevin McCarthy says he's leaving the House of Representatives for good. Congressman Mike Lawler, who defended McCarthy during his ouster as speaker, joins us next.

Also, this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Here is Marshall with Clark trailing. History in flight. You bet!

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MATTINGLY: You've probably gotten used to seeing that. A record- breaking performance from one of college basketball's absolute best. Iowa's Caitlin Clark becoming just the 15th player in women's Division I history to score 3,000 career points. She finished the game with 35 points and helped the Hawkeyes win their ninth game of the season. Clark also became the first player in Division I history, mens or womens, to reach 3,000 points, 750 rebounds and 750 assists in a career. She's good. Back soon.

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[08:41:02]

MATTINGLY: Well, as the cold winter months approach, disagreements over America's southern border policy are threatening much needed U.S. aid to Ukraine and Israel. Republicans in the Senate blocking a vote to advance fresh aid to Ukraine last night over differences in proposed changes to border and immigration policy. Republicans are calling for tighter immigration laws that would overhaul the way the U.S. handles asylum claims. They also want to rein in presidential authority to allow certain migrants into the country on a temporary basis.

Joining us now is Congressman Mike Lawler, a Republican from New York.

Sir, on that issue itself, would you be willing to go home for the holidays if an agreement is not reached here?

REP. MICHAEL LAWLER (R-NY): Look, obviously, I want to get our work done. The House Republican majority, on a bipartisan basis, passed aid to Israel weeks ago. Chuck Schumer, the Senate majority leader from New York, and the highest ranking Jewish official in America, has done absolutely nothing on it. Frankly, it's disgraceful. You know, he may disagree with the House's position, but then put a position forward and negotiate.

With respect to the border, here's the problem. This administration has failed miserably to secure our southern border. You're talking about nearly 10 million migrants crossing over the southern border since Joe Biden took office, many of them illegally. The asylum system is fundamentally broken. These cases are taking two to three years to be heard. And when they are heard, nearly two-thirds of them are rejected.

MATTINGLY: OK.

LAWLER: You have cities like New York floundering. The mayor coming here today, hat in hand, despite his sanctuary city policies.

So, we need to do something about the border. Chuck Schumer has failed to do anything on the border. House Republicans passed HR-2 back in May of this year. You need to negotiate. And the failure on the part of the Senate to do anything on the border is shameful.

MATTINGLY: Well, there are negotiations that have been ongoing. We'll see if they result in anything.

On -- from your conference itself, the speaker making clear that he's going to move forward on an official vote to open an impeachment inquiry. Are you with him on that? LAWLER: Look, the president said during the 2020 presidential debate

that he had no involvement with his son's business dealings, that his family never received any money from China or Russian oligarchs, Romanian oligarchs. That's just not true. And the information that has already been uncovered is disturbing. And I think, frankly, you know, folks in the press should be very concerned about what is actually coming out because it contradicts everything this administration has been saying from the start.

MATTINGLY: Can I just -

LAWLER: To me, the investigation -

MATTINGLY: But on the - on the actual question itself --

LAWLER: With all due respect, the -

MATTINGLY: Sure.

LAWLER: The -- with - with all due respect, $24 million has transferred hands to the Biden family. That is disturbing. From China, from Russian oligarchs, from Romanian oligarchs, and Ukraine. Why are people not concerned about that? I don't understand the - the failure --

MATTINGLY: So, there's a couple pieces there which I think --

LAWLER: The failure - the failure to actually ask serious questions. You're worried about process. Instead of actually asking serious questions about why the president is contradicted by the facts. Now, to me, the investigation --

MATTINGLY: So, here's a couple things.

LAWLER: The investigation has been ongoing since the beginning of this Congress.

MATTINGLY: Right.

LAWLER: Speaker McCarthy moved forward with an impeachment inquiry in the same manner that Nancy Pelosi did. The White House is stonewalling and refusing to cooperate. If a vote is put on the floor for an impeachment inquiry, I will support it because the American people deserve to know the answers to the question.

Now, that does not mean that we're moving forward with impeachment. And I think that's -- that needs to be made very clear.

MATTINGLY: I - so - what -- on that point -- just for a minute. I - I understand --

LAWLER: Impeachment - impeachment is a far ways off but the inquiry is important.

MATTINGLY: Having covered several with the last president, I under - two specifically, I understand the process. [08:45:02]

I know what you're saying.

I also know that once you go down this path and have that official vote, there's almost no way you're not going to end up having a final vote on an impeachment inquiry itself, or on an impeachment of the president. At least there hasn't been historically over time.

To your points about I think the question that people have as you move forward on this is, all of the details that you're laying out, our reporters on Capitol Hill are covering on a regular basis, none of them have tied directly to the president inside the White House. And the money that you've pointed to going to the family has not been tied directly to the president, even before the White House, except for paying a car loan and being on calls, which you can call that objectionable, but you're say these - all things directly tie to the president.

LAWLER: Well, with all - with all due respect, you are minimizing what has actually come out, OK? You have multiple shell companies, over 20 shell companies, $24 million that have transferred hands, including a $40,000, quote/unquote, loan repayment, yet you don't have any of the loan documents. You have over 100 suspicious activity reports that banks all across this nation and around the globe were filing.

So, with all due respect, to act as though there is not information that has come out that clearly contradicts what this administration and what the president has said about it, is wrong. And from my - from - from my perspective --

MATTINGLY: Those are two different things though. I'm not saying they don't contradict what the president has said. What I'm saying is, what - what of the information has --

LAWYER: Well, yes, but - but the issue isn't - the issue -

MATTINGLY: Go ahead.

LAWYER: The issue is about investigating, OK? And if we didn't investigate any of this from the start of the year, none of this would have come out because certainly CNN wasn't doing anything to investigate it. So, with all due respect, the information that has come out this year so far in the 11 months that the investigation has been ongoing is pretty damning and contradicts everything that the president said during the 2020 presidential election.

MATTINGLY: I think our folks have done good -

LAWLER: He said very clearly on stage -

MATTINGLY: One thing I'll say - no, I understand what you're saying -

LAWLER: He said very sirraly (ph) on stage that there was never any money -

MATTINGLY: And I'm - I'm - I'm - I'm not disputing that. No, no, no, I'm --

LAWLER: Well, well, wait a minute. Wait a minute. He said very clearly, there was never any money that transferred from China to his family. Do you, based on the evidence and the information that has already come out, including bank records, including suspicious activity reports, was the president telling the truth when he said that?

MATTINGLY: I think the answer to that is very clear. And I don't think - I'm not disputing that. What's --

LAWLER: Well, what is the - what is the - well, what is the answer?

MATTINGLY: No, it is very clear that what the president has said has been unequivocal at times in the past and that has not born out to be the case.

LAWLER: OK.

MATTINGLY: What I'm saying is what some of the members of your conference have said, have drawn very specific conclusions about what specifically went to the president in terms of money that simply have not been proven yet.

I do want to ask you one more before we go because I think it's important. You said privately, according to "Politico," that said you supported or liked Nikki Haley as the Republican presidential nominee. Why wouldn't you say that publicly? Why wouldn't you endorse?

LAWLER: Just -- I'll answer that in a second.

MATTINGLY: Yes.

LAWLER: Just on the -- on the last point, money clearly has transferred to the president. It occurred while he was out of office. And so, obviously, that is different from being in office, which is why I say, the inquiry should move forward.

I am not there on impeachment. I have said that repeatedly. But the information and the evidence and the facts will determine any next steps once the inquiry moves forward.

With respect to the town hall where I was asked a question about Nikki Haley and whether I would support her if she was the nominee, I said of course. But I've made clear, I'm not supporting anyone in the primary. I have not made an endorsement. And I have no intention to.

MATTINGLY: Congressman Mike Lawler --

LAWLER: The American people and the Republican voters will determine who the nominee is, and we'll take it from there.

MATTINGLY: Congressman Mike Lawler of New York, we appreciate your time, sir, as always. Thank you.

LAWLER: Thank you. HARLOW: Phil, a great interview.

All right, in just a few hours, Donald Trump is expected to be back in New York in a courtroom in the $250 million civil fraud trial against his company.

MATTINGLY: And major broadcast networks pay tribute simultaneously to the genius of Norman Lear, the iconic television producer who smashed boundaries, passed away yesterday. Lear's legacy and sense of humor, that's next.

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[08:53:35]

HARLOW: In a unique and telling move, multiple broadcast networks, ABC, CBS, NBC, Fox, tributing at the same time the great Norman Lear. It was 8:00 p.m. last night. And Lear passed away at his home in Los Angeles on Tuesday. That rare joint effort speaks to the iconic television producer's huge influence and legacy over the decades. Shows like "All in The Family," "Good Times," "The Jefferson," "Facts of Life" and "Different Strokes."

MATTINGLY: Recently he worked alongside Jimmy Kimmel to bring a series of specials to a studio audience, recreate classic episodes of those shows. Kimmel emotional as he honored Lear last night, highlighting his sense of humor.

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JIMMY KIMMEL, HOST, "JIMMY KIMMEL LIVE": For the holidays, the year before last, my wife and I sent him a shirt. This shirt, Norman f-ing Lear" on it. And he loved it. He wrote us a note, a thank you note. I want to share that with you. It said, "dear Molly and Jimmy," I can't (EXPLETIVE DELETED) believe this (EXPLETIVE DELETED) sweatshirt. It's something I've always wanted more than I can (EXPLETIVE DELETED) tell. You guys are the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) best and I wish you the dearest sweetest greatest (EXPLETIVE DELETED) holiday seasons in the history of holiday (EXPLETIVE DELETED) seasons. Signed Norman F. Lear."

He never said good-bye. He'd say, to be continued, and, over and next. And so that's how we'll leave it, to be continued, over and next.

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MATTINGLY: Norman Lear was 101 years old.

[08:55:02]

HARLOW: What a legend, right?

New this morning, we are getting reaction from the U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken on a moment that went viral last months. You'll remember when cameras captured Blinken making a strange face when President Biden called President Xi a dictator. Well, Gayle King and Charles Barklay asked him about it last night. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GAYLE KING: You had a, how shall we say, a moment the other day, Mr. Secretary, with President Biden in a conversation about President Xi. I know you've seen it because it's gone viral. So, we're going to share it with you again one more time just to get your take on it.

Roll tape, please.

QUESTION: Mr. President, after today would you still refer to President Xi as a dictator? This is a term that you used earlier this year.

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Well, look, he is.

KING: So, you seemed - you seemed, Mr. Secretary, to be having a moment where we've had with very people -- with friends that we are close to, please, stop talking, please, stop talking. What was going through your mind in that moment? Because your body language seemed to say something. I'm not sure what.

ANTONY BLINKEN, SECRETARY OF STATE: You know, Gayle, I'm tempted to say that we had had a really long day and very important and intense conversation with China. My neck was a little bit stiff and, you know, that happens.

KING: Yes. Been there.

BLINKEN: But, look, as I said - as I said before, it's not exactly a secret that we have a very different system from China's. The president always speaks very clearly, very directly, and he speaks for everyone.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: Stiff neck.

HARLOW: But that's why you want to watch that show because they're so good at stuff like that, eliciting great answers.

MATTINGLY: Also, MJ Lee, once again, shout out for asking the question.

HARLOW: With the best questions, yes.

All right, well, tensions ran high. Quite a fourth Republican presidential debate last night. Did candidates chip away at Trump's huge lead though? Stay with CNN

"NEWS CENTRAL" is after the break.

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