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CNN Poll: Biden Trails Trump in Georgia & Michigan; Trump Reserves Course, Won't Testify in Court Today; Biden Welcomes Zelenskyy Back to White House. Aired 6-6:30a ET

Aired December 11, 2023 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[06:00:20]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Radical left Democrats and their fake news allies have unveiled their newest hoax, that Donald J. Trump and the Republican Party are a threat to democracy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: That was the former president over the weekend. Donald Trump will not take the stand, the witness stand today. He had plenty to say, though, from the bully pulpit, as you just saw, calling warnings about his behavior, quote, "a hoax."

What brand-new CNN battleground polling tells us about the state of the race.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN ANCHOR: And Ron DeSantis goes on offense, finally, against Donald Trump. Why he says the former president's behavior is, quote, "an example of cowardice."

And Ukrainian President Zelenskyy heads to the White House and Capitol Hill tomorrow at a critical moment for emergency aid. What he will say to senators as he tries to secure billions of dollars in funding for the war with Russia.

CNN THIS MORNING starts right now.

Good morning, everyone. And welcome. This morning, we have brand-new CNN polling showing President Biden trailing President Trump in two crucial battleground states that Biden won in the last election.

In Georgia, a hypothetical rematch shows Trump leading Biden 49 to 44 percent.

HARLOW: And in Michigan, Trump is up ten points. Biden won that state, remember, by nearly 3 points back in 2020.

Over the weekend, though, Trump dismissed Biden's warning to voters that he is a threat to democracy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Baker today in the "The New York Times," he said that I want to be a dictator. I didn't say that. I said I wanted to be a dictator for one day. But "The New York Times" said -- and you know why I wanted to be a dictator? Because I want a wall, right? I want a wall, and I want to drill, drill, drill.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: We'll get to that in a little bit. But let's dive straight into those numbers with CNN political director David Chalian at the Magic Wall in Washington.

David, when you look at what we're seeing in both Georgia and Michigan, how are voters in these two states feeling about President Biden? Where is his support clearly faltering right now?

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Yes, they're not feeling great. We've seen his overall national approval numbers, Phil, and obviously, this is having an impact in those most closely fought battleground states.

Take a look in Georgia here. Look at the different match-ups between President Biden on this side and three of the different candidates running on the Republican side.

So against Haley, 49-43 in Georgia. Handily bests Biden. Trump, 49-44. DeSantis here, actually, this is within the margin of error, but he does not perform, as well. That sort of damages a bit of his electability argument in the Republican primary.

In Michigan, which Joe Biden won by a little bit of a healthier margin than he did Georgia in 2020, what you see here, Haley trouncing Biden, 50 to 38. Trump you showed: 50 to 40 against Joe Biden. And again, DeSantis is the one that's below 50 here, but he also is besting Joe Biden in Michigan.

I do want to show you guys a poll -- a horse race in Michigan with some of the third-party and independent candidates. And you see what trouble that brings to Joe Biden. His number goes down, way down, to 31 percent, Donald Trump at 39 percent, with RFK Jr. getting 20 percent, Cornell West pulling 6 percent.

And then underneath the horse race, we look at some attributes. So this in Georgia here. We asked, does -- which candidate does not have the attributes you want a president to have when it comes to temperament? OK?

That is Donald Trump's worst score. Fifty-eight percent say he doesn't have that quality; 47 percent say that of Biden.

But across the other three: understanding people like you, policy positions, and sharpness and stamina, which is Joe Biden's weakest point, you see 66 percent of Georgia voters say that Biden does not have the sharpness and stamina that they're looking for in a president. Only 46 percent say that about Donald Trump. And then flip it in Michigan. We asked folks at the other end of the

scale, if this candidate has exactly the attributes you're looking for when it comes to a president. Again, only 15 percent say that on temperament for Donald Trump; 20 percent say that for Joe Biden.

If you look down here, sharpness and stamina, only 6 percent of Michigan voters say that Joe Biden has exactly what they're looking for in sharpness and stamina in a candidate. Twenty-nine percent say that about Donald Trump.

[06:05:11]

HARLOW: The numbers are so interesting and so crucial in those states. But so unprecedented, is Trump goes into this with 91 charges against him. And I wonder if the criminal cases, particularly against him, are having any effect on this campaign, as the courtroom calendar really collides with the campaign calendar.

CHALIAN: Absolutely, Poppy. And in one of these states, Georgia, we know the Fulton County case is playing out on a daily basis. We asked folks in Georgia, just overall, do you approve or disapprove of the decision to criminally charge Donald Trump in Fulton County.

A majority of Georgia voters, 52 percent, approve of the charges. Forty-seven percent disapprove. Look at that by party, though. Obviously, 91 percent of Democrats approved the charges. A majority of independents, 52 percent, that's pretty key. And only 11 percent of Republicans.

We also in Georgia asked, if true, the charges against Donald Trump regarding efforts to overturn the 2020 election, does that disqualify him for the presidency? Forty-seven percent of Georgia voters say it does disqualify. Another 14 percent says it casts doubt on his fitness for the job. Thirty-nine percent say they're not relevant to his fitness for office.

And again, look at that by party, and you'll see here, 82 percent of Democrats in Georgia say he'll be disqualified if the charges are true. Forty-eight percent of independents. Only 9 percent of Republicans in Georgia say, if indeed it's true that he overturned [SIC] the 2020 election, is that a disqualifying factor.

In Michigan, we see something similar: 46 percent of Michigan voters say, if true, that's disqualifying. Another 14 percent casts doubt on fitness for the job. Thirty-nine percent aren't -- aren't at all related to his fitness for office.

Eighty-six percent of Democrats think he should be disqualified in Michigan if proven true, 44 percent of independents, and only 10 percent of Republicans.

MATTINGLY: David, if this is a through line from our reporters on the ground, whether it's Jeff Zeleny or John King, kind of across the board, it's people just aren't happy right now. Nobody's feeling exactly great. We'll call it the vibes, to some degree, in the country. In terms of enthusiasm to vote, where are voters about going to the

polls next year?

CHALIAN: We see a pretty clear advantage, Phil, for Republicans on the enthusiasm factor.

So take a look here in Georgia, for example. Those that say they're -- 72 percent of the Republican-leaning voters in the poll say they're extremely motivated to vote in 2024. Only 59 percent of the Democrat and Democrat-leaning independents say the same thing.

We see something similar in Michigan, as well. There's a clear enthusiasm advantage at this moment, you know, a little less than a year out on the Republican side.

HARLOW: Such interesting numbers. David, thanks very much. We'll see you soon.

CHALIAN: Sure.

MATTINGLY: Well, there was an 11th-hour surprise reversal from Donald Trump. He says now he will not testify at his civil fraud trial in New York.

Remember, Trump had vowed to retake the witness stand, against the advice of his legal team in the case that threatens the future of his family real estate empire.

But in a very long-winded post on Truth Social yesterday, he wrote in part, quote, "I have already testified to everything and have nothing more to say, other than that is a complete and total election interference (Biden campaign!)" -- exclamation point -- "witch hunt that will do nothing but keep businesses out of New York."

CNN's Kristen Holmes joins us now. The exclamation point aside, the reversal here, were you surprised and why?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, we were surprised, given that he had been so adamant that he wanted to testify. Now, there have been questions about whether or not the gag order had something to do with it.

His attorney said there was nothing left for Trump to say to a judge who had issued this unconstitutional gag order on Trump.

But the gag order was really completely irrelevant to any testimony that he would have. He could still answer direct questions about this case.

And as you mentioned, several of his attorneys had warned him that it would not be a great idea to take the stand.

And this really isn't the first time or probably won't be the last time that we've heard this. Donald Trump pushing to take the stand, saying that he's going to testify in various legal cases, and then at 11th hour, his attorneys convincing him that it is a bad idea. And when you look at it, it really comes down to risk and reward. Remember, he already did testify in this case. He had a very contentious day in court where he went back and forth with the judge. There wasn't much left to say, because he had answered so many of those questions.

So whether or not the risk/reward factor was, they decided ultimately that there was greater risk than reward in him taking the stand.

HARLOW: So what -- the court is dark today, I think. Right? Because he's not testifying. What happens starting tomorrow and just where this goes? Because this is a judge is going to decide. Not a -- not a jury.

HOLMES: Right. So this case is actually expected to wrap up this week. They have an expert that is testifying again tomorrow. We saw him last week. He's going back into court tomorrow. And they do expect this to be done, the defense to rest, and -- but no decision to be made until early next year.

[06:10:11]

And really, what we're watching now is this navigation between Donald Trump's political campaign and the legal side, because he also has another court case, or another trial, coming up in March, right as those primaries, caucuses, everything is ramping up.

So it's really becoming a balancing act for Donald Trump and his campaign as he tries to run for president and also has a number of legal trials pending.

MATTINGLY: All right. Kristen Holmes for us in Washington. Thank you.

HARLOW: We have a lot more to get to from these new CNN polls from the battleground states of Georgia and Michigan. How people who didn't even vote in 2020 could influence what happens in '24.

MATTINGLY: And Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy heads to Washington to face a Capitol Hill, very divided over helping Ukraine. One senator calling this one of the most dangerous moments he's seen in American politics. More, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MATTINGLY: New CNN polls just released this morning from Georgia and Michigan show a tight race for a crucial voting bloc: young voters. Trump leads Biden by ten points in Georgia among voters under the age of 45, and by 11 points in Michigan.

HARLOW: With us now, strategic communications expert Lee Carter; former Biden deputy assistant Jamal Simmons; and CNN political analyst Laura Barron-Lopez.

[06:15:06]

Great to have you guys here, very much. Laura, let me just begin with you on this spread. It's not good for Biden. He was able to win Georgia in 2020. How do you turn this around? You've got a year. How do you do it?

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes, there's a lot of time left. I mean, you're right, it doesn't look good for the president.

But I was looking back at some 2011 polls, and it showed that around this time in 2011, Barack Obama was also trailing Mitt Romney by about five percentage points in a lot of these swing states. So it's not impossible to turn it around.

That young voter number is really striking to me because of the fact that young voters broke for Biden in these swing states in 2020. They're a key part of his coalition. And clearly, they're frustrated with him, likely because of the Israel/Hamas war; potentially also because of some other issues they -- they -- but I think that, if Democrats lean into what is more salient with younger voters: abortion, democracy, climate change, that could be a way to bring them back.

MATTINGLY: Jamal, to that point, give me the other side of this, right? Because you can quibble with a single poll. You can quibble with numbers. That's totally fine and merited, particularly this far out from an election.

The trend line is very similar. Poll after poll after poll after poll. So to the lowest point. If you're the Biden campaign, and you're trying to tell people chill out, take a breath, why.

JAMAL SIMMONS, FORMER DEPUTY ASSISTANT TO PRESIDENT BIDEN: Yes, first of all Joe Biden is going to be the nominee. It's too late to get anybody else in the race. So Democrats need to just muscle up.

MATTINGLY: That's the start of your pitch?

SIMMONS: We're in the game.

HARLOW: You answered my question.

SIMMONS: Listen, I've doing a lot of holiday parties lately, and I've heard a lot of whispering in the ear. So this is the end of the story, right? He's the nominee.

So the question now is going to be how does the Biden campaign communicate over the course of the next year to people? You're starting to see some ads. They're putting real people on television, telling their story about how the Biden/Harris administration has helped out each one of those real groups.

I think that's incredibly important, because you know why? A lot of these voters are really cynical, and they don't really want to listen to any politician tell the story. So hearing real people tell the story is going to be incredibly important.

Inflation is a huge problem. But now we're starting to see is wages are outpacing inflation for the first time in a couple of years. It takes time for people to feel that. Gas prices are going down. I've been feeling that, right? Most people do. Gas prices are going down. As that kind of washes its way through the system, I think that will help.

Lastly, the Gaza war is a real challenge for Democrats. Keep in mind, Bernie Sanders is still the heart of the Democratic Party in terms of his ideology. If you go all the way back to, like, Jesse Jackson, who won the Michigan primary back in 1984 and '88, like, this is a -- this is an incredibly liberal party in many ways. And so you've got to find ways to, like, get them excited.

HARLOW: Look at the -- look at the U.S., over the last couple of days, vetoing the U.N. resolution for a ceasefire, being the only member to do that.

SIMMONS: Not something you'd put in an ad in a Democratic primary.

HARLOW: Yes. Not. Definitely not.

SIMMONS: Yes.

HARLOW: I want to talk about Abortion with you, Lee. Because this could be saving grace for Democrats, especially young Democratic voters. I thought how Republican Senator J.D. Vance, who is also young -- he's 39 -- talked about this with Jake yesterday. Let's listen to it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. J.D. VANCE (R-OH): We have to accept that people do not want blanket abortion bans. They just don't.

When I say that people don't really trust us, Jake, what I'm getting at is, look, I am luckily a person of means, but I've been shocked by -- you go to hospital, you have a baby, you get a $20,000 unexpected bill. What does that look like for a middle-class family that is trying to figure out how to pay the mortgage?

We've made it way too hard to have children and have families in this country. In that environment, if people see Republicans not as the party that's trying to make it easier to have babies, but is just trying to take people's rights away, then we're going to lose.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: If you hear more Republican lawmakers talking like that, in that important nuanced way, about abortion, does that make it harder for Democrats to prevail on this?

LEE CARTER, STRATEGIC COMMUNICATIONS EXPERT: It absolutely does. And in fact, when Nikki Haley in the debate started talking about how difficult it was to make these decisions and how Republicans had to be more practical and understand that there was no way that we're going to ban abortion in this country --

HARLOW: But then she said she'd sign the six-week ban.

CARTER: She did say that. But also, I'm just saying, that moment in the debate, when she was talking about it as there's something that's not realistic. It's got to be state by state. It was one of the top moments for her.

And seven out of 10 independent women say the primary reason they're going to go to the polls is abortion. Republicans have to get this right.

And J.D. Vance isn't wrong. And what he said there is absolutely right. This could cost Republicans the election, despite all of these other numbers that you're looking at that say it's so bad for Joe Biden and Democrats. This issue is one that's going to drive people to the polls.

BARRON-LOPEZ: Talking to a Republican strategist in Arizona over the last few days, and they were saying that the economy there is not good for Biden. And that's, of course, impacting voters.

But the one thing that could save him in that swing state is abortion and the fact that abortion may very well be on the ballot come November, specifically for Arizona.

But if abortion is something that is playing out in other states or something that Democrats are putting the focus on in other swing states, it could actually save President Biden as it duels with the economy.

[06:20:04]

HARLOW: It's a great point, because states like Arizona, Democrats are trying to get abortion, literally, on the ballot to drive people to the polls in those states.

MATTINGLY: Do you think there's time on the economy? And I ask that because you -- your point is accurate. Laura and I covered every single legislative -- major legislative success that they've had on these issues. The economic numbers on a macro level remain very positive. Much more positive than anybody suspected they would be at this point.

The idea of it washing over, is it too late, or kind of where people are hardened? It seems like that in this poll. Do you think they can move?

SIMMONS: It's not too late. I also think that we all over-learned the lesson of the '92, James Carville, "it's the economy, stupid" lesson. Right?

MATTINGLY: Do this quickly.

SIMMONS: George -- George W. Bush didn't win the 2004 re-election because of the economy. He won because of national security. Right? There are things that matter in elections other than the economy.

So you've got to be credible on the economy. But this point you guys are just making about abortion is incredibly important.

I was at the White House last year, 2022, with the vice president; and I remember when the 10-year-old girl was raped in Ohio, and she had to go to Indiana in order to see a doctor. The vice president called that doctor. The doctor talked about it later. That was a really salient point for people.

I think what happened in Texas right now is going to be a point that might matter for people going forward. That this is what it looks like when Republicans are in charge of government and women lose control of their bodies.

HARLOW: We have the attorney on for that woman, Kate Cox, in Texas, who has really become sort of emblematic of this fight. Should judges decide if you can get an abortion or not?

Thank you all very much. Jamal, Lee and Laura, we'll hear from you again in just a couple of minutes.

MATTINGLY: Well, pressure is growing on Harvard's president to resign after a testimony on antisemitism on campus. How hundreds of Harvard's faculty members are now defending her this morning.

HARLOW: Also, new information on the deadly tornado outbreak that slammed the South. One man's story of survival as that twister shredded everything around him.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, my God!

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(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:25:46]

MATTINGLY: This is something lawmakers are very clear about. This week is a pivotal moment in Ukraine's battle for help in the war against Russia.

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy will visit the White House tomorrow and will hold a joint news conference with President Biden. This is Zelenskyy's third visit to Washington since the war began.

He posted this message just hours before he took off for the U.S.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): Important matters. Every day, every hour we utilize to give more to Ukraine, to our people. More opportunities, more protection, more strength. I thank everyone who helps.

(END VIDEO CLIP) MATTINGLY: Zelenskyy will arrive in Washington, a very different Washington than he visited back in December of last year; September, as well. It is now very divided over how to move forward with funding for Ukraine.

Senate Republicans demanding significant immigration restrictions in exchange for more aid. Many House Republicans opposed to it entirely.

CNN's Lauren Fox is in the nation's capital. Lauren, how is this visit going to change the dynamic, if at all?

LAUREN FOX, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I think that that is the key question, Phil. And it isn't clear that anything Zelenskyy says is going to change the minds of those Republicans and conservatives, especially in the House, who are dead-set against giving any additional funding to Ukraine.

The key question is how this affects those Senate border negotiations that have been going on for weeks now and have yet to get a major break-through in order to try and pass more aid for Ukraine by the end of this week.

Remember, lawmakers are about to head home for the holiday recess, and there is growing -- there's a growing sense, really, that at this moment, nothing more is going to be going to Ukraine by the end of the week, given the fact that Republicans are insisting on robust changes to the U.S.'s border policy as part of any package to give more funding to Ukraine.

Just to give you a sense of the meetings tomorrow that Zelenskyy is going to have, he's going to meet with senators on a bipartisan basis tomorrow morning.

Then he's going to have a one-on-one meeting with House Speaker Mike Johnson. That is probably the most critical meeting, even though it is a one-on-one meeting. It really is an important moment to cement to Johnson, who's a newly-minted speaker, that this aid is crucial to Ukraine's future -- Phil.

MATTINGLY: And very interesting and telling that he's meeting with the entire Senate and just the speaker in the House, not the entire House of Representatives.

Lauren, when it comes to the negotiations on the border, there has been a consistent call from Republicans but now Democrats, as well, that President Biden needs to get involved, needs to be in the room. He needs to be the one to strike a deal.

Do you have any sense that's going to happen in the days ahead?

FOX: Yes. You heard yesterday from Senator Chris Murphy, the leading Democrat as part of these talks. He certainly signaled that getting Biden more involved would be helpful, in part because of the political cost, the political gamble, really, that Democrats have here.

Because they have to make sure that anything they do on the border is going to ensure that it is not so much that it affects the president's re-election in the future with his Latino base. That is going to be a key dynamic here.

But obviously, Senator Murphy making clear that, if Biden was more involved, it certainly would help these negotiations -- Phil.

MATTINGLY: An enormously consequential week ahead. Lauren Fox, thank you.

HARLOW: Well, people in middle Tennessee recovering this morning from a deadly tornado outbreak over the weekend. At least six people, including two children, were killed, dozens more injured. And homes were damaged, as well.

Here you see one tornado moving through the Nashville suburb of Madison. It hit a power substation. That ignited a fireball. More than 30,000 customers are still in the dark this morning.

This was an EF-2 with peak winds of about 125 miles an hour.

About 50 miles Northwest of there, an even more powerful EF-3 hit Clarksville, with winds around 150 miles an hour. Look at that video. Nearly 400 structures were damaged or destroyed. At least 100 military families lost their homes.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All this started just caving in. Glass was busting. Stuff was flying around. It was crazy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mm-hmm. And you just had to drop to the floor?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. It's all we could do.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My most precious possessions are my kids, you know. Everything else is replaceable.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Just terrifying for them. That same storm system now headed to the Northeast.

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