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CNN This Morning
Supreme Court Asked to Rule on Immunity; Claudine Gay will Remain as President; Alexei Navalny's Whereabouts Unknown; Titans Pull off Comeback. Aired 6:30-7a ET
Aired December 12, 2023 - 06:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[06:30:00]
ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: I'm not sure the evidence that was unusual enough that, a, a judge would admit it, and, b, that you could really make that argument to the jury.
POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Of witness tampering?
HONIG: Yes of - that it's witness tampering. To me alone this does not make out witness tampering. OK, you called someone who left their job. You let them know the job's still open. OK, you offered to take someone to a golf tournament.
However, it might fit into a broader pattern that we've seen here, right? I mean we've already seen charges of obstruction and then obstruction upon obstruction in this case relating to hiding the boxes, tampering with the video surveillance, trying to influence certain witnesses. So, it could fit into that. It could support the overall picture the prosecutors are trying to paint here. All a concerted effort to obstruct justice.
PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN ANCHOR: It's fascinating reporting. Not totally sure exactly what it means going forward, but it's just a great example of our team's work.
What is, I think, very out front right now is what the special counsel did yesterday in terms of going straight to the Supreme Court to challenge president -- former President Trump's immunity claims.
Errol, what did you take from this, the decision to go straight to the Supreme Court here?
ERROL LOUIS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, first of all, it's something that they're entitled to do. It's not - it's not super, super rare -
MATTINGLY: Yes.
LOUIS: To sort of go and ask for, you know, the Supreme Court to get --
MATTINGLY: Can you explain that? Why?
LOUIS: Well, I mean, look, the - the -- normally there's an appeals process. You go through different levels and then the Supreme Court decides whether or not to take a case. And that can take months or even a year or two. But what we saw in the case that comes to mind I think that probably most viewers would -- might remember is back in 2000 when there was a real question on the table about whether or not votes were being counted properly in Florida, the Supreme Court took up the case immediately and they resolved it because we needed to have a new leader of the country. You can ask for that.
In this case, it's not quite as dramatic and it's not quite as urgent. But what Jack Smith is saying is that, you know, look, if we've got an election that's about to start, if what - if what is at the end of all of this is that the president cannot be prosecuted for any reason, for anything that he did while he was in office, which is basically what his lawyers - the case that his lawyers were making, tell me now. Let's not - let's not waste everyone's time with this if at the end of it there's going to be some kind of crazy immunity.
Now, he's doing this knowing that what Trump's lawyers have asked for is absurd. It's hard to imagine that they're going to get everything that they want, but it's best to have it litigated now.
HARLOW: And, Leah, explain what Trump's lawyers are asking here for because the fate of two cases, the election interference case and the Georgia election interference probe, hangs in the balance. If this court decides, even a 5-4, you know, narrow majority decision, when you're a president, you're immune from things like this, those two go out the window.
LEAH WRIGHT RIGUEUR, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST AND HISTORIAN: Absolutely. They're gone. And this is why this is such a crucial moment. And, in fact, in some respects I know the Trump folks are irate over the special counsel's decision to - you know, to push the Supreme Court and decide the -- make this decision right now. But this is also something the Trump people should care about because the Supreme Court is going to lay it out. They're going to either say, no, actually you don't have immunity based on things that you did in office, or you do. And so we have to decide -- I think the other thing to keep in mind here is that we have to decide it because we have an election that is rapidly approaching. And part of the Trump team's strategy has been to stretch out this kind of political process and this legal process in order to get to the point of being re-elected president of the United States by which then there are all kinds of kind of legal calamities or rules and regulations, including one in which he can pardon himself, right, and preemptively take it off the table.
Again, I think it's important to think about what this decision might actually entail as well because what happens if the president of the -- the next president of the United States is told, no, actually you do have immunity over anything that you did while in office. That changes the entire landscape of how somebody governs and what they're able to do and what the American public allows them to do.
MATTINGLY: Elle, to Leah's point, Trump's team being irate. It's a day that ends in y, so I'm not totally surprised. But is it just because they're trying to delay or is there a reason that they should be upset that this happened? HONIG: Yes, if, in fact, they're irate it's because this is all about
the calendar, this is all about dragging it out. Absolutely the right move, the smart move, the necessary move by Jack Smith if he wants to keep that March 4th trial date.
I do think the Supreme Court will take this on the expedited basis.
HARLOW: But they haven't said yet. We don't know.
HONIG: Right. They haven't said but I'm -- I'm predicting now, I do think they will take it on the expedited basis. Then they get to this million-dollar question that we will get an answer I believe within the next several months, yes or no, is a president immune for contact within the scope of the presidency.
HARLOW: I don't get the part of the law that they're trying to determine here.
HONIG: Yes.
HARLOW: Do we know? Do you see what I'm saying?
HONIG: Well, this has develop -
HARLOW: What part of the Constitution are they going to point to here?
HONIG: Yes, this is - this is -- it's based off Article 2, which creates executive power.
RIGUEUR: Yes.
HONIG: And it's based off common law that has developed over the last 40 years in the Supreme Court going back to Richard Nixon, actually not related to Watergate, a case where he got sued by a former federal employee who had been fired, sued Richard Nixon.
[06:35:04]
The Supreme Court looks at it and says, you cannot sue, different question than we have now, can you prosecute, but you cannot sue the president for something within his job as president.
MATTINGLY: All right, Elie, Leah, Errol, thanks, guys.
HARLOW: Thanks, guys.
MATTINGLY: Well, the United Nations gets ready to hold another emergency meeting over the Israel/Hamas war. And just in, another crossing opens from Gaza. But it's not opening for delivery of humanitarian aid. We'll explain, next.
HARLOW: Also, it's decision day at Harvard. The fate of the university's president to lead expected to be announced shortly.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MATTINGLY: Well, brand new this morning, "The Harvard Crimson" reporting the university's embattled president, Claudine Gay, will keep her job. He's been under fire since her House testimony last week about anti-Semitism on campus.
CNN's Jason Carroll is live for us in Cambridge, Massachusetts.
Jason, we've seen the reporting from "The Harvard Crimson."
[06:40:02]
We know the pressure that has been on the president over the course of the last several days. What are we hearing right now about how this is all going to play out today?
JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, we're hearing that, according to "The Harvard Crimson," as you said, that the Harvard governing board will announce later today, later this morning we're hearing, that Claudine Gay will, in fact, be able to keep her job, keep her position as president of Harvard University.
As you know, Phil, the board had been silent for the past several days as speculation swirled as to whether or not she would be able to keep her job after that widely criticized testimony in front of Congress last week. But over the past 24 hours or so, we've seen a great deal of support coming forward for a Claudine Gay, including 700 faculty members who signed on to that petition that was sent to the governing board saying they support her. In addition to that, we saw the Harvard alumni association signing a letter in support of Gay. Also 18 black faculty members within the past 24 hours also signing a letter supporting gay. One of those, Professor Randall Kennedy, spoke to CNN last night about why he says Gay should stay.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PROF. RANDALL KENNEDY, HARVARD LAW SCHOOL: I think that President Gay is being -- is being targeted. She's the obvious target of a smear. The politicians who called her and the other presidents to the House of Representatives had made it clear that they had already determined that there was an anti-Semitism problem at these universities. They weren't exploring this.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CARROLL: Now, we also have been speaking to a number of students here on campus within the past 48 hours or so. Many of them who said - who have said that while Gay's comments were hurtful, while they were insensitive, they were very critical of her, even some of those students, Phil, said they still felt as though Gay should keep her position and were really offended that there were outside sources, outside influences trying to force her out.
So, again, Harvard's governing board expected to announce later today, or according to "The Harvard Crimson" later this morning, that Claudine Gay will, in fact, be able to keep her position here at Harvard.
Phil.
MATTINGLY: All right, Jason Carroll, live for us in Cambridge. Keep us posted. Thank you.
HARLOW: Ahead for us, a man who spent nearly 20 years in prison for a murder he always said he did not commit, well, this morning he is free, and you're looking at his smile there. His conviction overturned by a judge. We will be joined by him and talk about the moment that he learned he'd be a free man.
MATTINGLY: And baseball's new $700 million man decides to defer most of his pay. Why he's waiting to get $680 million for almost a decade?
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[06:47:09]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DASHA NAVALNAYA, ALEXEI NAVALNY'S DAUGHTER: If I were to get a message out to him, I don't know. I just want -- I want the people, not just him, but I want others to know that I have hope and for other people to have hope that we can change the regime if we work together.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARLOW: That is the daughter of Alexei Navalny telling CNN last night she hopes her father is safe after his legal team says they've completely lost contact with him. He is serving prison time in Russia. New this morning, a prison employee told a spokesperson for Navalny that he left the prison colony where he was but they couldn't confirm where he is now. It has been a week since anyone has heard from Navalny, who is serving time for extremism and other charges he denies.
The White House is, quote, "deeply concerned." They are reiterating calls for his release. A spokesperson for the Kremlin told reporters this morning they have, quote, "neither the intention nor the ability to monitor the fate of prisons and the process of their stay in the relevant institutions," closed quote.
Supporters call Navalny's arrest and incarceration a politically motivated attempt to silence his criticism of Vladimir Putin.
Navalny has been imprisoned since returning to Russia nearly three years ago when he was poisoned with the Soviet-era nerve agent Novichok. A joint investigation by CNN and by Bellingcat implicated the Russian security service. Supporters call Navalny's arrest and his incarceration politically motivated and an attempt to silence his criticism of Putin. His daughter told CNN last night about the last health update that she got.
Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DASHA NAVALNAYA, ALEXEI NAVALNY'S DAUGHTER: The most up to date news on his health is that two weeks ago he fainted in his cell because they had been practically starving him. He's very malnourished. He is not getting any medical support that he needs or has been asking to see a dentist and they're not providing anything.
We have no idea where he is.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARLOW: Our Fred Pleitgen joins us now with much more.
Fred, you've been following this so closely for years, as so many people have. CNN's documentary, of course, on Navalny followed all of this.
The fact that a spokesperson for the person is saying, look, he left -- or was taken, not that he left voluntarily, the penal colony a week ago.
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes.
HARLOW: There has not been any update, right, on where he is from anyone?
PLEITGEN: Yes. Yes, there's not been any update whatsoever. And just to give our viewers a sense of how difficult it is to get straight answers or any sort of answers out of the prison service, none of this came voluntarily from the Russian authorities. The lawyers for Alexei Navalny saying he was supposed to show up for a hearing via video link from the jail that he is supposed to be in yesterday. Didn't turn up for that originally. The prison service then said that there were problems with the electricity there. But however, upon questioning, they then acknowledged that actually he was no longer listed as even being inside that prison anymore.
[06:50:04]
Today he was supposed to show up for a video link again and didn't show up. And then they finally acknowledged that he had been transferred out of that prison but again are not saying where exactly he's been transferred to.
Now, all of this is very difficult, obviously, for the legal team of Alexei Navalny, for his family, of course, as well. However, it is not unheard of within the Russian prison system. We have to keep in mind that Alexei Navalny was supposed to be transferred to a jail with an even harsher regime, an even tougher jail than the one that he's been in so far. And our viewers just heard from Alexei Navalny's daughter how difficult the situation he is in right now, them saying that he's essentially malnourished. Of course, we also know from his associates that he apparently fainted inside his jail cell last week and had to be put on an IV. Well, now he's supposed to get into an even tougher regime. However,
they are not saying where that is.
And one of the things that does tend to happen when a prisoner is in the process of being transferred within the Russian prison system, is that they're completely out of communications. They're not allowed to communicate and also the prison service itself does not communicate. And now it's up to the legal team to actually find out where he is. We might hear from Alexei Navalny at some point in time when he's reached the new place, when he's gotten settled in there. But as of this writing, as of right now, they simply have absolutely no idea where he is or how he's doing.
Poppy.
HARLOW: Fred, let's talk about the timing here. I mean this comes just after all these billboards went up across Russia that, you know, appear to say sort of happy new year.
PLEITGEN: Yes.
HARLOW: But then if you go through the QR code posted on them, they talk about, quote, Russia without Putin. They were apparently paid for by Navalny's anti-corruption foundation. And here is what the head of that foundation told CNN last night about the timing here.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARIA PEVCHIKH, HEAD OF INVESTIGATIONS, NAVALNY'S ANTI-CORRUPTION FOUNDATION: If you just look to the timings, Navalny disappeared on Tuesday last week and the official elections were announced on Thursday and Putin wants his re-election to be as smooth as possible. He likes his opponents to be silent.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARLOW: How significant is this timing?
PLEITGEN: Yes, it is - it is quite fascinating timing. I mean one of the things that we have to keep in mind is that Vladimir Putin did, just a couple of days ago, announce that he was running again and then they did manage to get these billboards put up, which the Russian authorities clearly were not happy with at all. In fact, there's video of those billboards then being taken down very quickly once the authorities found out that if you go on the QR code that you actually come to a site that says, don't vote for Vladimir Putin. It's certainly not what the Russian leader wants and once again one of these instances where Alexei Navalny's anti-corruption foundation is trying to make its mark on these elections. So, certainly not something that Vladimir Putin wants.
At the same time, though, it's not clear whether or not it actually has anything to do with him essentially going dark at this point in time or whether or not it is that transfer or some sort of other reason. Nevertheless, the concern certainly remains on the part of his family and on the part of his associates as well, Poppy. HARLOW: Fred Pleitgen, thanks very much for all the reporting. Keep us
posted.
MATTINGLY: A critical legal question in the federal election subversion case against Donald Trump is now heading to the Supreme Court. We're going to examine Jack Smith's move being described as extraordinary.
HARLOW: And Ukraine's president is in Washington, heading to Congress, as the battle to pass more aid for the country divides Congress. A top Democratic negotiator in the Senate joins us with where things stand, ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[06:58:10]
HARLOW: Welcome back.
The NFL had a rare Monday night doubleheader and it gave fans one of the most improbable comebacks in recent memory.
MATTINGLY: The 4-8 Tennessee Titan stunned the 9-3 Miami Dolphins and the CNN THIS MORNING pick 'em pool with 14 points in the final three minutes to win.
Coy Wire joins us now.
Coy, how did this happened?
COY WIRE, CNN SPORTS ANCHOR: Yes, improbable. Titans had just a 0.3 percent chance of winning in the final three minutes according to ESPN analytics. Didn't matter. Check it out. Down two touchdowns with 2:46 to go. Rookie quarterback Will Levis letting it rip to hit DeAndre Hopkins for the touchdown. And Tennessee would go for two. They get it. It was now a six-point game. And after some great defense, Tennessee gets the ball back and it's Levis to Hopkins again for the big play. Levis had 129 yards in the final two drives, and that set up King Henry, Derrick, diving in for the score. Titans rally to win 28- 27. They're the first team in seven years to overcome a 14-point deficit in the final three minutes.
Now, Phil, Poppy, you've got to check this out. Giants' rookie quarterback Tommy DeVito is a whole vibe, rocking chains and a fuzzy pink pullover pre-game versus the Packer. But how about this, the kid from jersey, who still lives with his parents has an agent who looks exactly like you'd expect. That's Sean Stellato. I mean is this not glorious, Poppy, Phil? I mean --
HARLOW: I mean -
MATTINGLY: It's -- Coy, I love you generally. I love you so much because I literally walked in the office this morning and all I was talking about was Sean Stellato and how Tommy DeVito, his family, everything about it is wonderful. And the agent, look, kissing the dad. The dad kissing the agent. It's like they -- a script writer could not have written a better script.
And, frankly, I don't know how you feel, he's done pretty well. Throws a good ball. Has improved every week. I love it.
WIRE: Look, they won three straight, in large part to Tommy DeVito.
[07:00:02]
And chef's kisses all around for Giants fans. They beat Green Bay 24- 22. Rolling in style.
You -- Coy, there's a lot of Jets fans.
