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Fossil Fuel Phase-Out Removed From Draft Climate Deal; Sen. Chris Murphy (D-CT) On Zelenskyy's Big Day In D.C. With Aid Running Out; Minnesota Man Freed After 19 Years In Prison Joins CNN. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired December 12, 2023 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[07:32:17]

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AL GORE, (D) FORMER VICE PRESIDENT: We've been seeing the fossil fuel polluters try to manipulate this process for a long time and the world is running out of patience.

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PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN ANCHOR: Well, brand new this morning, a deadline set by the president of COP28 -- of the COP28 climate talks. They have come. They have gone. There has been no deal and climate activists are outraged. Today is the official last day of the summit in Dubai. Negotiators have been scrambling to bridge the divide after a controversial draft of the agreement was published last night.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: This latest version dropped calls for a phase-out of fossil fuels, which had appeared in previous drafts. The United States and some allies, including the United Kingdom and the European Union, are not happy about that.

Former Vice President Al Gore posting on X that the conference was on the verge of complete failure.

The EU's climate commissioner says they are working on their next move.

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WOPKE HOEKSTRA, EU CLIMATE COMMISSIONER: There is a great majority of countries who actually want and demand more in terms of phasing out and in terms of what is in the text, and it is up to us to make sure that these voices are being heard and that this is solved in the next day or the next days, or however long it's going to take.

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HARLOW: Joining us now, our chief climate correspondent Bill Weir. I mean -- BILL WEIR, CNN CHIEF CLIMATE CORRESPONDENT: Good morning.

HARLOW: -- this was the hope. Al Gore to Jake, this weekend, was saying well, if we could get to an agreement with the phase-out of fossil fuels, at some point, there is hope. That's out of this draft now.

WEIR: It is. And one spokesman from Greenpeace said it's like a dagger to our heart when we read that. Because there was so much hope last week.

HARLOW: Yeah.

WEIR: In fact, there was so much momentum behind the ambitious countries wanting to say this is the beginning of the end of fossil fuels that OPEC had an internal meeting that was fraught with worry and saying we have to fight this because it's an existential threat to our business model.

But, guys, it's so telling about human nature. This is the 28th conference of the parties where every country comes together. We've been doing this for almost 30 years. This is the first time they've managed to use the f-word, fossil fuels, which is the source of the climate crisis.

And Saudi Arabia is adamant about keeping that language out, and that seems to be where the -- where the loggerheads is. You've got the United States, the EU, the smaller and most vulnerable countries saying if not now, when? And you've got the big petro states refusing any of this language.

MATTINGLY: But can you explain for folks when you hear the U.N. climate chief say a great majority of countries want to do more -- that's not enough.

WEIR: Not enough.

MATTINGLY: Why not?

WEIR: Because the minority of countries includes Saudi Arabia, Russia, and other --

MATTINGLY: And do they have veto power over a final statement?

WEIR: Well, this is supposed to be unanimous. The idea is that if it's 90 percent of the world ratifies this idea there's always wiggle room for somebody to say well, not everybody is on board so why are you holding it to us?

HARLOW: Yeah, right, because it's not binding. So if you want people to comply you need them on board.

[07:35:02]

WEIR: But here's the thing that's missing.

HARLOW: OK.

WEIR: I spoke to two CEOs of new energy startup companies who went there and said they came back so enthused because what's happening on the sidelines are states, countries, cities, super ambitious about decarbonization. The economics are all there. They say it's just a matter of time. Even the big oil heavies know they are working on borrowed time --

HARLOW: Um-hum.

WEIR: -- in the fossil fuel economy. It's just how long that fight takes and how many ecosystems die as a result of this debate.

MATTINGLY: Having been last year with President Biden, if you can go, go. You will not walk away from it depressed and feeling like everything is awful. The young people -- the entrepreneurs that are at COP --

WEIR: That's right.

MATTINGLY: -- they kind of give you an energy that you wouldn't expect --

WEIR: Yeah.

MATTINGLY: -- given the dynamics on the top of this conference.

WEIR: And once a promise is set, like the Paris accords, you can see the way it sort of --

MATTINGLY: Yeah.

WEIR: -- flattened the curve for a lot of countries --

HARLOW: It did.

WEIR: -- because they're on record saying we want to do this.

HARLOW: Until we pulled out.

WEIR: Yeah.

HARLOW: (INAUDIBLE).

MATTINGLY: Again.

HARLOW: And again.

Bill Weir, thank you.

MATTINGLY: (INAUDIBLE). Thanks, Bill.

HARLOW: We'll see.

MATTINGLY: In a little more than an hour, Ukraine's president will be on Capitol Hill urging lawmakers to provide more aid. Up next, Sen. Chris Murphy will join us ahead of this morning's all-senators meeting with Volodymyr Zelenskyy.

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[07:40:20]

HARLOW: In just about an hour, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy will begin a day of high-level meetings on Capitol Hill. He is set to meet with senators and have a one-on-one meeting with House Speaker Mike Johnson before he heads to the White House.

Senators are getting more pessimistic about a deal on immigration in order to greenlight aid to Ukraine. Republicans say Zelenskyy's visit will not do anything to change their demands that U.S. border policy be dealt with as part of this.

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SEN. JAMES LANKFORD (R-OK): We have a responsibility in the United States of America. That would mean me going back to my state and saying I care about people in other countries but I don't care about what's happening in my own country.

It's important that we actually do two things at once here. And we are the United States of America. It's not that we look at other nations and go gosh, they're really in trouble but we're going to ignore our own needs as well. We've got to actually pay attention to our own needs while we're also dealing with the needs around the world as well.

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HARLOW: That was Oklahoma Republican Sen. James Lankford who is the lead Republican negotiator on immigration policy. The lead Democratic negotiator on all this, Sen. Chris Murphy, has warned quote, "The future of the world is at stake if we fail."

Murphy also says Putin is delighting in Republicans' insistence that we get a deal on immigration reform. Russia does appear to be celebrating. Look at Russian state TV.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): What's happening in the U.S. is beneficial for us.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Ukraine is losing. Russia is winning. This is it. Their funding and weapons came to an end.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): As of now, well done, Republicans. They're standing firm. That's good for us. Even Mitch McConnell. Well done, Gramps.

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HARLOW: Joining us now is Sen. Chris Murphy of Connecticut. Senator, you said the future of the world is at stake. And you're

shaking your head, I think, because of what you just heard from Russian state television. You guys have 48 hours. Are you going to get this done?

SEN. CHRIS MURPHY (D-CT): Well, I hope that President Zelenskyy's visit is impactful. But that's absolutely remarkable to listen to Vladimir Putin's mouthpieces on Russian state TV celebrating Republicans' decision to hold up aid to Ukraine, which they say they support because they want to get Trump border policies put into law -- something that the American people don't support.

I just think this is too important to play games over. Yes, I'm in the room trying to figure out a path forward on these Republican demands because failure cannot be an option. But we shouldn't have to be here. If we all agree that it would be terrible for America and terrible for the world for Vladimir Putin to march through Ukraine and potentially into Europe, then let's stop him from doing that.

I have lots of domestic political priorities. I would like to see universal background checks or a ban on assault weapons passed. But I am not conditioning my support to stop Vladimir Putin's march into Ukraine upon the resolution of my domestic political priorities because if all of us did that Washington would grind to a halt.

We've got to get things done when we agree. And Republicans say that they support Ukraine funding, so I wish they would just put their votes where their mouth is. Instead, we are in a difficult negotiation on border policy that may come to a conclusion this week. It may not. But the future of the world really is at stake.

HARLOW: James Lankford, who we just heard from -- your Republican counterpart in all of this -- said look, it's the Biden administration -- the president that coupled this all together in his supplemental request. He put border funding with Ukraine and Taiwan and Israel funding. You said the White House is more involved now.

Do you think he has a point by saying the Biden administration coupled it together and now we've got to deal with it together?

MURPHY: I don't because it's fairly normal for there to be these emergency spending bills before Congress when we have insufficient funds for the operation of the border or for our foreign policy objectives.

It's very different to say on top of that funding we are going to make major changes in law, and that's what Republicans are asking for. They are asking for very severe, very draconian immigration policy changes. Policy changes that they know could not pass if they weren't holding up support for the war against Vladimir Putin.

So I just think that's --

HARLOW: But isn't that the exact point?

MURPHY: -- the difficulty. HARLOW: Isn't that the -- isn't that the exact point?

MURPHY: Well, that's --

HARLOW: This is moment -- it's a crisis. I think many people agree that what's happening at the border is a crisis. So this is a moment we've got to deal with it at home and then we're going to help Ukraine, too.

[07:45:00]

MURPHY: Yeah. I think we should separate the two. I don't think that Vladimir Putin should be given a green light to invade and conquer Ukraine and Europe simply because for 40 years, we've had a tough time coming to a conclusion on immigration policy.

But listen, Poppy, we're going to work at this. I'm at the table. I hear what Republicans have been saying. We are going to try to come to a conclusion. And I'm sitting down with Sen. Lankford and others in good faith this week.

HARLOW: And you did point out -- look, in your words, this is 10 times more complicated than even gun reform to have comprehensive immigration reform, which I think speaks to just what you guys are up against.

You know what I'm really struck by, Senator, is the sentiment of the American people. There are a number of new polls out that show that the support for more funding for Ukraine is waning. I mean, just look at the PEW numbers. Thirty-one percent of Americans think the U.S. is providing too much support to Ukraine. The same thing is reflected in Gallop.

What do you say to those people at home who feel that way? How do you change their hearts and minds?

MURPHY: Well, listen, I think we do labor under the consequences of really bad American foreign policy for the last 20 years. When the American public looks at the places where the United States has been involved or funded wars overseas few of them have gone right. I admit that, right -- from Vietnam to Afghanistan, to Iraq, to Syria.

But this is different. This is the World War II -- the post-World War II order coming undone. And if big countries can reset their borders by invading smaller countries then I think it's just a matter of time before American troops are directly at war with a big power abroad, whether it be Russia or China.

So this feels different to me. If we don't hold the line here --

HARLOW: Um-hum.

MURPHY: -- ultimately, I think we're going to have American men and women fighting and dying overseas, which is something that I don't want and the American people don't want. HARLOW: Senator Murphy, Thursday marks 11 years since the tragic massacre at Sandy Hook Elementary. It is the reason it propelled you to Congress to try to change things. This has been your fight on guns of your entire career in Congress.

The youngest Sandy Hook victim would be 17 today. They'd be finishing high school. They'd be planning for college. They'd be with their family getting ready and celebrating Hanukkah. Getting ready for Christmas. All of that.

Our latest analysis at CNN is that there have been 80 school shootings just so far this year, most of them on K-12 campuses.

Reflect on the last 11 years -- where we are and where we go.

MURPHY: Yeah. Listen, obviously, this is a really hard time for all of us as we get ready to mark 11 years since Sandy Hook. I've spent a lot of time with the families from Sandy Hook at this time and there's a dissent that happens for all of them as they get ready for December 14.

And yes, the mass shootings and school shootings are still at historic highs. But there is some good news. We passed, last year, the first bipartisan major change in gun laws in 30 years. We broke the back of the NRA. And overall gun violence rates in this country are actually down by a significant number since we passed that bill over 10 percent. The mass shootings are still high but there are far fewer people dying from guns this year than last year because we passed legislation making it harder for dangerous people to get guns.

Now, that means there's 100 people, not 110 people dying every day. That's still far too high. But it shows what is possible, and what is possible is real changes in gun laws because we've built a movement since Sandy Hook of kids, adults, community members to make sure that we are more powerful than the NRA.

So it is a very sad time of the year. But for me, it's a reminder of what is possible and what we've actually achieved in the last decade.

HARLOW: That Congress can do hard things when there is a will.

Senator Chris Murphy, thank you very much. We'll be thinking of all of you on Thursday.

MURPHY: Thank you.

MATTINGLY: Well, at just 16 years old, Marvin Haynes went to prison for a murder he says he had nothing to do with. Now, nearly 20 years later, his conviction has been thrown out. Coming up, Marvin joins us live for his first national TV interview as a free man. Stay with us.

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[07:53:34]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: -- have been waiting for, for 20 years.

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MATTINGLY: That moment after spending two decades behind bars for a wrongful murder conviction. That's Marvin Haynes. He's a free man this morning.

Haynes was sentenced to life in prison for the 2004 killing of a man in a Minneapolis flower shop. He was just 16 years old. The now-36- year-old has maintained his innocence from the beginning.

On Monday, a judge signed the order to overturn Haynes' wrongful conviction on the basis of unconstitutional witness identification. The judge also citing lack of physical evidence writing, quote, "There was no physical evidence linking petitioner to the crime scene. There was no DNA evidence, fingerprint evidence, physical evidence, surveillance evidence, or other forensic evidence."

HARLOW: The prosecutor who tried Haynes' case told the Minnesota Star Tribune that he was appalled by the decision to overturn the conviction. And speaking to CNN affiliate KARE 11, the family called this a travesty.

Here's what Marvin said when he learned his conviction was overturned.

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MARVIN HAYNES, MURDER CONVICTION VACATED AFTER 19 YEARS IN PRISON: I shed tears. I haven't cried so much in 19 years. I'm just, like, overwhelmed with emotion. I was excited just to get my life back and to know, like, these people has recognized my innocence and just now the truth prevailed at this time. I mean, it's been 19 years but I'm here and all I want to do is move forward and just get my life back.

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[07:55:05]

HARLOW: Joining us now for his first national television interview since being released in Marvin Haynes, and Marvin's attorney, Andrew Markquart, a managing attorney at the Great North Innocence Project, which has worked for years to secure this release. Thank you very much for being with us.

Marvin, we were talking in the commercial and you just started smiling -- a smile that you have really been waiting to give as a free man for almost 20 years.

Your justice was delayed but ultimately, not denied in the end. What do you want people to know?

HAYNES (via Webex by Cisco): I just want people to know that I'm innocent. I was innocent from the very beginning. And I'm just happy that people just recognize it and understand my story and really know that I'm actually innocent. So I'm just proud that people just read my name and just know my story.

MATTINGLY: Marvin, I have to ask about your sister. In just reading about everything over the course of the last several years, but even just the last several months, her role in this moment -- I think we saw her behind you when you were speaking to the press after you were released. Talk about what she was doing throughout this process.

HAYNES: She was tremendous in this process. She was in the community making sure people know that I'm innocent, talking to everybody you can think of just so they could know, like, yeah, this man is really innocent and this is a tragedy to the community and we need to come together and make sure that they recognize what's going on so we can correct this injustice.

HARLOW: Andrew, to you. I'm interested in your response to this. This is from the D.A. on the case now, not the one who originally prosecuted it -- Mary Moriarty. Here's what she said.

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MARY MORIARTY, HENNEPIN COUNTY ATTORNEY: The Hennepin County Attorney's Office bears responsibility for taking almost 20 years away from Marvin Haynes and his family. We have deeply devoted professionals in this office who are committed to doing the right thing every day. And doing the right things sometimes means we must seek to undo the harms of the past and not defend them, and that is what we have tried to do today.

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HARLOW: Andrew, can you speak to those who are in similar shoes to Marvin's, still behind bars who may not have a sister like him or an attorney like you?

ANDREW MARKQUART, ATTORNEY FOR MARVIN HAYNES, MANAGING ATTORNEY, GREAT NORTHERN INNOCENCE PROJECT (via Webex by Cisco): Sure. I mean, that was pretty incredible moments to hear those words from the now-County Attorney Mary Moriarty whose office did ultimately agree to vacate this conviction -- I think on the strength of the evidence here.

So I think -- think Marvin's story can be an inspiration for people who are still fighting their cases. Unfortunately, it takes far too long in too many instances and our laws make it far too difficult to get this kind of relief. But hopefully, his story can provide some hope for those who are still out there fighting.

HARLOW: But, Marvin, she also said about you -- and I thought this was really interesting in her press release. "You lost the opportunity to graduate from high school, to have a prom, to have relationships, to attend a wedding and funerals, and be with your family for the holidays. For that, I am so deeply sorry."

I know sorry does not take it back, Marvin, but I just wonder what those words felt like.

HAYNES: It means so much to me for somebody with that much power to now recognize that I'm innocent and correct it, and just help me move forward with my life. Because it's been a long journey. So to hear them words from somebody that acknowledged that I'm actually innocent and helping me get my life back, I can't even explain what it means to me.

MATTINGLY: Marvin, what was your first night home like? What do you have planned for the weeks, months, years ahead?

HAYNES: I mean, I went to a nice dinner with my lawyer. We enjoyed each other and I was so appreciative of them. They helped save my life and just, you know, correct my narrative. And I'm just -- I was so happy about that.

But I'm looking forward to getting a job and just get my life in order and just -- yeah, just try to work me a little job so I can have discipline and just try to help my family out.

HARLOW: Well, thank you both very much for being with us.

And just to read, as we go, a statement from now-Sen. Klobuchar, who was the county attorney at the time. She didn't prosecute this case but she was the county attorney at the time. She said -- her office says, "The Senator respects the judicial process. She has worked closely with the Innocence Project on reforms and has long supported their work, and will continue to do so."

Thank you, both.

HAYNES: Thank you.

MARKQUART: Thank you.

HARLOW: And CNN THIS MORNING continues right now.

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VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRANIAN PRESIDENT: -- must look so that everyone else who sees Russia's war on Ukraine as his personal lecture at the so-called "University of Aggression." That's the message loud and clear. Putin must lose.

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