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CNN This Morning
Biden Says Israel is Losing the Support for the War Against Hamas; DeSantis Intensifies Attacks on Trump; Four Women Give Testimony of Assault at the Coast Guard. Aired 6:30-7a ET
Aired December 13, 2023 - 06:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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[06:30:43]
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JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I think that we have made it clear to the Israelis, and they're aware, that the independent - the safety of innocent Palestinians is still of great concern. And so the actions they're taking must be consistent with attempting to do everything possible to prevent innocent Palestinian civilians from being hurt, murdered, killed, lost, et cetera.
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POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: This morning, those are the strongest words of warning yet from President Biden and other world leaders to Israel, saying Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has to change his approach on the war against Hamas in Gaza. The president told donors in Washington that Israel is, quote, "losing" international support for the war. Biden called Netanyahu's government the most conservative in Israeli history and added, quote, "it doesn't want a two-state solution."
And several key U.S. allies are going a step further. The prime ministers of Australia, Canada and New Zealand say they, quote, "support urgent international efforts towards a sustainable ceasefire."
PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN ANCHOR: Now, Netanyahu admitted that he and Biden disagree on what should happen to Gaza, quote, "the day after Hamas," but that he hopes they will reach an agreement. But Netanyahu also rejected the president's call to have the Palestinian Authority play a role in Gaza's future because, according to the prime minister, they support terrorism.
Joining us now to discuss all of this, David Sanger, CNN political and national security analyst. He's also a White House and national security correspondent for "The New York Times."
David, this is episode 7,000 of what the president says at fundraisers tells you what the president is actually thinking right now. The candid assessment of where things stand in this relationship and the warnings in that closed-door fundraiser. Were you surprised? DAVID SANGER, CNN POLITICAL AND NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, not
surprised in that we have seen a ramping up of the public commentary about what's been a really tense set of conversations every three or four days between the president and Prime Minister Netanyahu.
What is remarkable is that the president's out there making the case for $14 billion for Israel, for the military actions that need to follow the October 7 events, and yet the prime minister is out openly saying, we are not going to go along with the U.S. policy suggestions (INAUDIBLE).
And let's delineate what they are. They have been repeatedly told, you have to be extraordinarily careful about preserving civilian lives as you go about the operations. The Israelis say that they have been, but very few administration officials I run into believe that that has been really the number one priority.
The second thing is that Prime Minister Netanyahu has never been in favor of a two-state solution. That has been the president's explicit goal out here. And to come out, you know, as strongly as the president did was remarkable. So, this really tells you about the limits of even a president's influence.
HARLOW: You put it so well when we were chatting in the break, that essentially Bibi is asking for $14 billion in aid and, by the way, I'm not going to do what you're saying to do. And it's notable that the U.S. is clear, the Biden administration, they're not going to condition aid to Israel, but there are conditions on U.S. aid to Ukraine right now.
SANGER: Sure.
HARLOW: Why the difference?
SANGER: There are conditions on most U.S. aid.
HARLOW: Yes.
SANGER: I mean, first of all, there are legislative conditions about following humanitarian practices and so forth. They're usually pretty vaguely written, but there are conditions there, including on the Israeli aid.
But in Ukraine's case, for example, the president has said explicitly, you cannot use American weapons to fire into Russia. There could be similar restrictions on how they can use American weapons in Gaza but politically no one really wants to go down that road right now. And, you know, I think that gets to Israel's special status, which is long running, and a sense that the October 7th attacks were particularly horrific and the U.S. is onboard with the idea of trying to eliminate Hamas. It's the how.
And you remember when the president was in Israel, he said, after 9/11, out of our rage, we made a lot of mistakes.
[06:35:05] And I think what he's essentially arguing yesterday at that fundraiser is, Israel is doing the same thing.
MATTINGLY: David, one of the question I've had as we've watched this all play out is, you know, the underpinning the Biden administration strategy here, led by the president very clearly is, hug them close to ensure you'll be in the room, to ensure you'll have voices, to ensure you can have influence. What is the U.S. getting out of their requests, out of their asks, that merits the hugging close at this point?
SANGER: The hug him close has never worked with Bibi Netanyahu. He has always been the exception for all presidents. I mean remember the poisonous relationship between President Obama, right? So the only moments it's worked has been, for example, during the Trump administration when President Trump was willing to give him anything he wanted and asked, no question (ph).
HARLOW: But yet Obama approved so much aid to Israel. The current package was under Obama.
SANGER: He did. He did. And, you know, there's a long relationship there. It goes back to Harry Truman being the first one to recognized Israel, rightly so, when it was - when it was created. And - and because of its special status in the world.
The other place, though, where this is really fascinating is the hug him close of Zelenskyy, who we saw sitting in the Oval Office yesterday. They have, behind the scenes, as I reported with several of my colleagues earlier this week, been trying to push Zelenskyy to a different strategy, one that doesn't require he fight the Russians for every inch of territory, but instead focus on the industrial areas, focus on a pathway to the sea to get grain out, focus on securing Kyiv. And yet yesterday, in that brief joint press conference, we heard Zelenskyy say it would be insane to give up any land -
HARLOW: Yes.
SANGER: Politically required for him, and the president say, we need a stable democratic Ukraine. He never mentioned borders.
HARLOW: That's interesting, the tone change between Zelenskyy and Biden and between Biden and Netanyahu all at the same time.
SANGER: Yes.
HARLOW: Thank you, David.
SANGER: Thank you.
HARLOW: And great reporting on that this week.
SANGER: Thank you.
HARLOW: Appreciate it. MATTINGLY: Well, from America's mayor to disgraced lawyer and admitted
lawyer. One of the women at the center of Rudy Giuliani's lies about the 2020 election reveals how it turned her life, her mom's life, upside-down.
HARLOW: And new voicemails played in court underscore why she feared for her life.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Eat (EXPLETIVE DELETED) and die, you (EXPLETIVE DELETED) racist (EXPLETIVE DELETED). You are (EXPLETIVE DELETED) done you (EXPLETIVE DELETED) whore.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're going to burn your store down.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
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[06:41:45]
HARLOW: Florida Governor Ron DeSantis ramped up his attacks on several fronts last night against Trump, the by far frontrunner. He did it at CNN's town hall in Iowa.
Listen to this.
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GOV. RON DESANTIS (R-FL), 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think the first three years of the Trump administration, the economy is better than it has been. But that last year with Covid I think was mishandled dramatically. Shutting down the country was a huge mistake. Printing trillions and trillions of dollars was a huge mistake. That set the foundation for the inflation that we see.
I went to the rallies with Donald Trump. He said he was going to build the wall and have Mexico pay for it. And that didn't happen.
I think, though, one thing in this race that I think is important to point out is, Donald Trump flip-flopping on the right to life.
JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: Republicans are divided over a new satanic temple holiday display in the state capitol building. What do you think? Should that display be allowed in the capitol?
DESANTIS: So, it's interesting. I - I - I heard this and then I was like, well, how did it get there? Is that even a religion? And lo and behold, the Trump administration gave them approval to be under the IRS as a religion.
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HARLOW: Well, there's that.
DeSantis traveled to all 99 counties in Iowa. What's that called, Phil?
MATTINGLY: The full Grassley.
HARLOW: The full Grassley. Trying to elevate his chances of winning the caucuses in just over a month.
MATTINGLY: But polls like this one from "The Des Moines Register" show DeSantis trailing Trump by more than 30 points. It's obviously not great a month out.
Joining us now, CNN's senior political analyst John Avlon, as well as "Rolling Stone's" senior writer Tessa Stuart and David Sanger, our CNN analyst, "New York Times" reporter, is back with us now.
Tessa, when you watched last night there was a tonal shift I think that's been established over the course of the last couple of days. Mad props for being prepared for the satanic question to tie -- good research operation there.
What was striking, though, is, it took this long. Is it too late?
TESSA STUART, SENOR WRITER, "ROLLING STONE": On DeSantis' part?
MATTINGLY: Yes.
STUART: I think that's what the polls are showing in Iowa, that it is too late. I mean I - that's what - that would be my - my sense. He's down 30 points. He has the governor's endorsement there. He's visited all 99 counties, but he's - he's really not able to catch Trump.
MATTINGLY: So, when he says, I've got the best ground operation and Iowa voters decide late in the caucus, is a different beast than a primary?
STUART: I think it's really tough going up against someone who has as much support as Donald Trump has right now.
HARLOW: Let's play the moment where he talked about abortion, which is so front and center now especially given what the Texas Supreme Court ruled this week.
Here it is.
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GOV. RON DESANTIS (R-FL), 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: In Florida, the Florida legislature passed a heartbeat bill that contained exceptions for things like rape, incest, life of the mother, fatal fetal defect and victim of human trafficking. And so I signed that bill. Those are very difficult cases. And they made a prudential judgment that having those exceptions were things that made sense. So, I have signs legislation that included that and I understand they're very difficult.
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HARLOW: The Texas Supreme Court decision showed us is that exceptions have exceptions, that -
JOHN AVLON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST AND ANCHOR: Yes.
HARLOW: And, by the way, DeSantis didn't talk about the fact that he also, a year ago, signed a 15-week ban that didn't have a lot of those exceptions.
[06:45:03]
So, he's trying to walk a really thin tightrope here.
AVLON: I mean, I don't think this is a thing you finesse, right? I mean I thought there was an element of hypocrisy to his answer -
HARLOW: Yes.
AVLON: Only (ph) because he's putting the emphasis on the need for compassion, whereas the laws he has advocated and signed into law don't evidence that. That's not their primary purpose is to send an ideological message to the base. And, as you point out, one of the things the Cox case show is the exceptions to the exceptions, that themselves have sort of a sinister overtone.
You know, this is not the kind of thing where I think a lot of the Republican field right now is in a position, with the exception of Nikki Haley, to try to find common ground.
HARLOW: Can we listen to her?
AVLON: Sure.
HARLOW: Let's listen to Nikki Haley on this.
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NIKKI HALEY (R), 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This is exactly why I've said you have to show compassion and humanize the situation. We don't want any women to sit there and deal with a rare situation and have to deliver a baby in that sort of circumstance, any more than we want women getting an abortion at 37, 38, 39 weeks.
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HARLOW: Directly her talking about what the Texas Supreme Court did there.
AVLON: Yes. Yes. And then there I think that's - that's consistent with what she's been saying on the debate stage and on the hot stakes (ph). She's got credibility saying we need to find common ground here. And that common ground isn't going to be a six week ban.
HARLOW: Which she said she'd sign, though.
AVLON: Well, look, I mean, you know, I think -- she has been more focused on saying, look, we need to find a way to come together as a nation. We need to find that common ground. That common ground looks more like 15 weeks in many cases with exceptions, which itself is not far - you know, calling justice (INAUDIBLE).
MATTINGLY: I'm not sure that Glenn Youngkin thinks that that was actually the common ground that he thought it was. To some --
AVLON: No, that's a - that's a great point. I mean (INAUDIBLE).
MATTINGLY: But it - the reason - and I'm not giving you a hard time, but I think that -- the question that came out of Virginia, that came out of the off year elections was, maybe it's not the message. Maybe it's the issue to some degree. And while Haley clearly has taken it on and addressed the issue perhaps more than other candidates have, do you think it -- her way is a way that -- to -- to John's point, that this find a middle ground that people want while maintaining the Republican position on it?
STUART: I think that she is doing a better job than anyone else in the GOP field at, you know, trying to reach where voters are on this. But voters are pretty - I mean the - we've seen in election after election that this is a very motivating issue for them. That two-thirds of the country wants abortion to be safe and legal and accessible and that, you know, they really are not onboard with the Republican position here.
MATTINGLY: Sorry.
HARLOW: David, I thought it was interesting moment last night, talking about foreign policy, your expertise, when DeSantis was asked, you know, Ukraine, Israel and he just - he clearly chose Israel, talking again about that special relationship.
SANGER: So, first of all, what really struck me about this fascinating conversation and town hall they had was that he's continued to try to out Trump Trump even on the foreign policy issues but across the board, right? I'm going to build a wall that will really work. On the abortion issue, where Trump himself has been all over the map in his times (ph), and then here. So, he basically said, I'm not interested in Ukraine. It's the Europeans' problem, right? A real sort of late 1930s view of how you would think about the development of conflict in Europe. And, of course, we got drawn in at that time.
On Israel, he said, I'm all in. He then cited the fact that he sent a plane to go get Floridians out of Israel. So, he's basically saying, I was acting as a president would act to get my citizens back home. And he said nothing about what we were discussing before, putting conditions on the aid so that there are some limits on what Israel can do in Gaza given the deaths of the civilians. That topic did not come up at all. It was just the full embrace of Netanyahu.
HARLOW: And what's great about these town halls is they are largely voters' questions.
SANGER: That's right.
HARLOW: And you really know what's on people's minds. So let's also -- stick with us - we want to talk about something else that's really crucial in what is happening in this defamation case that is ongoing against Rudy Giuliani. It was brought by former Georgia election workers Ruby Freeman and Shaye Moss. Giuliani lied about them repeatedly.
MATTINGLY: And continues to do so.
Court resumes today as jurors weigh how much money the mother and daughter will get from Guliani, if he has any. Here is what they heard from Moss yesterday as she describes the impact of the threats against her.
HARLOW: Quote, "I am most scared of my son finding me or my mom hanging outside my house on a tree or having to get the news at school that his momma was killed." That's a quote.
Now, listen to these voicemails that they received. This is part of why.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Eat (EXPLETIVE DELETED) and die, you (EXPLETIVE DELETED) racist (EXPLETIVE DELETED). You are (EXPLETIVE DELETED) done you (EXPLETIVE DELETED) whore.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're going to burn your store down.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARLOW: John Avlon, you were closer to Rudy Giuliani than anyone at this table. You were his speechwriter. Key to how he ran New York.
[06:50:02]
He was America's mayor. He's, to Phil's point, continuing - continuing with these lies that are so dangerous, and you just heard why.
BERMAN: Well, and that's the point, right, the unhinged hate that follows in the wake of these lies, these election lies, which Rudy was peddling on behalf of Donald Trump.
Look, Rudy is a very different man than he was when he was mayor. He, in this case, you know, you see the persistent presence of no filter, no judgement, this impulse to dig himself deeper in the hole he's already dug himself into with - regarding this defamation. And the tragedy is, is that this is a man who was once a respected federal prosecutor, somebody who believed that the law was a search for the truth. And he is in deep personal and financial and political trouble at the behest of Donald Trump because he pursued the law not in advancing the truth without any facts and he unleashed this kind of a pandora's box. And now he's about to reap the whirlwind (ph) of this result.
MATTINGLY: And I think it's important, the reason why we keep doing this story every single day now, and certainly what's happening in court, there's a very good reason to, but even on days where it's not is, these are real people.
AVLON: Yes.
MATTINGLY: These are real people who were doing the right thing, who did absolutely nothing wrong.
AVLON: Sure.
MATTINGLY: And with very clear racist overtones and complete lies they have been put in an awful situation.
David, you've covered Washington and these types of issues for so long. Have you ever seen the collapse of a human like what we've seen with Rudy Giuliani over the course of the last several years?
SANGER: It is the most vivid, public, sort of self-immolation of a - of a - of a respected figure that we've -- we've ever seen. And people, you know, the question is, what happened to him at what point and was it simply that he had -- he felt that his only way to relevance was to get so close to Donald Trump that he would give him whatever he wanted? And what he wanted the most, of course, after the - and the time around the election was a way to verify that this was a faked election. And Rudy Giuliani was all in on this. And, you know, it's amazing today, when you look at the polling, how many people still believe that this was a rigged election.
AVLON: It's a lie.
SANGER: Yes.
AVLON: They believe a lie.
MATTINGLY: John Avlon, Tessa Stuart, David Sanger, thanks, guys. Appreciate it.
HARLOW: We do have new reporting this morning on how Israel is using sea water to flood some of those Hamas underground tunnels in Gaza. That's next.
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[06:56:27]
MATTINGLY: Well, we have new information this morning about sexual assaults and harassment at the U.S. Coast Guard Academy that only came to light because of CNN reporting.
HARLOW: Four women testified at a bipartisan Senate hearing about how they were silenced, retaliated against and left battling severe mental trauma while alleged perpetrators continued to thrive within the service.
Here's more from our Pamela Brown, who first uncovered how their cases were extremely mishandled.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And nothing but the truth, so help you God. PAMELA BROWN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): These four women say
they were all sexually assaulted in the Coast Guard in different eras.
CAITLIN MARO, FORMER COAST GUARD CADET: I was groped several times, sometimes with 30 laughing witnesses.
MELISSA MCCAFFERTY, FORMER COAST GUARD LIEUTENANT: Over the course of three days, he repeatedly raped me in that room.
JENNIFER YOUNT, FORMER COAST GUARD COMMANDER: Two first-class cadets broke down my roommate's and my locked door, entered our room and jumped on to our beds on top of us.
BROWN (voice over): Including a current cadet at the Coast Guard Academy.
KYRA HOLMSTRUP, CURRENT COAST GUARD CADET: What I thought was an innocent ice cream date on campus turned into a sexual assault that has haunted me ever since.
BROWN (voice over): A rare bipartisan hearing investigating the way the Coast Guard handles reports of sexual abuse.
SEN. RON JOHNSON (R-WI): I've been here more than 12 years and this is probably some of the most powerful, important and on point testimony I've heard.
SEN. RICHARD BLUMENTHAL (D-CT): We learned about the "Fouled Anchor" report only because CNN found out about it, reported on it.
BROWN (voice over): CNN first uncovered a history of sexual assaults in the agency that were ignored or mishandled. The Coast Guard substantiated dozens of rapes in an investigation called "Operation Fouled Anchor," but the results were covered up for years.
YOUNT: The status quo can no longer continue.
BROWN (voice over): The survivors spoke of having their reports of assaults mishandled.
MARO: The same company commander admitted that he didn't start an investigation because, quote, "he figured that it happened on a date. You do have blonde hair and you wear makeup."
BROWN (voice over): And while current cadet Kyra Grace Holmstrup says cover-ups are no longer a problem at the Coast Guard Academy from her experience, there are still damaging missteps.
HOLMSTRUP: And then I got to talk to a chaplain. And when I went to talk to that chaplain, he asked me who assaulted me. And I told him. And he said, oh, no, he's such a good guy.
BROWN (voice over): The women spoke of the pain and feeling of betrayal that still lingers, some even decades later.
MARO: So, this has, in many ways, been a blessing for me because I finally have a diagnosis for the things that I thought were just personality quirks these last 20 years was actually, in fact, PTSD.
BROWN (voice over): Last week the Coast Guard released the results of an internal review, admitting it "failed to keep our people safe" and "change is necessary."
But the report doesn't include any punishment of assailants from the past.
MARO: It's insulting. It's patronizing.
BROWN (voice over): After the hearing, we sat down with three of the survivors.
MARO: I love that they want to help future cadets, but then they just left this mass carnage in their wake.
BROWN: And what does this look like for you personally, that mass carnage?
MARO: It looks like a lot of expensive therapy. It looks like broken relationships, you know, lost family, suicide attempts.
BROWN (voice over): Melissa McCafferty attempted suicide six years ago.
MCCAFFERTY: The level that this organization pushed me to, and I am beyond lucky to be here today. I am beyond lucky.
[07:00:00]
I, frankly, do not know how I survived. I flat-lined in the ambulance and I flat-lined at the hospital, yet here I am.
BROWN: What?
