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CNN This Morning

Gov. Ron DeSantis (R-FL) Ramps Up Attacks on Trump in CNN Town Hall; Gov. Chris Sununu (R-NH) Endorses Nikki Haley; Today, Biden Meets With Families of Americans Abducted by Hamas. Aired 7-7:30a ET

Aired December 13, 2023 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[07:00:00]

I frankly do not know how I survived. I flatlined in the ambulance and I flatlined at the hospital, yet here I am.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN CHIEF INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT: What do you say to the women and the men who have been sexually assaulted and who haven't told anyone?

JENNIFER YOUNT, FORMER COAST GUARD COMMANDER: I feel stronger today than I did yesterday. You made me feel weak. No, that ain't the case anymore. Now, I'm stronger.

BROWN: Pamela Brown, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Our thanks to Pamela and the investigative team for that remarkable investigation and report.

And CNN This Morning continues now.

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GOV. RON DESANTIS (R-FL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Was he not being honest in January of 2020 or has he just flipped his position?

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN ANCHOR: A very revealing CNN town hall with Ron DeSantis. He forcefully attacked Donald Trump on personal and on policy terms.

GOV. CHRIS SUNUNU (R-NH): We are all-in on Nikki Haley.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The opposition of Trump is divided and it's going to allow Trump to contact (ph).

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: At least nine Israeli soldiers, including a commander killed in a single Northern Gaza incident.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Israel now flooding Hamas's network of tunnels, flushing out militants. ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: He has not expressed any real support in a two-state solution, which is very important for the U.S.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Ukraine's president seeking more aid and congressional Republicans resisting.

JOE BIDEN, U.S. PRESIDENT: We'll continue to supply Ukraine with critical weapons and equipment as long as we can.

M.J. LEE, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: As long as it takes is the refrain that we have long heard.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is exactly what Vladimir Putin has been waiting for.

MELANIE ZANONA, CNN CAPITOL HILL REPORTER: Republicans taking the next step in their impeachment inquiry into President Biden, threatening to hold Hunter Biden in contempt of Congress if he does not show.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's going to back-flip.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN ANCHOR: Well, good morning, everyone. You know that music. It's politics.

Less than five weeks to go before the first votes are cast in Iowa and the gloves are coming off. Florida Governor Ron DeSantis training his fire finally on republican frontrunner Donald Trump in ways he just simply never has before. And it's seemingly every turn during last night's CNN presidential town hall.

HARLOW: This comes as New Hampshire Governor Chris Sununu officially endorses Nikki Haley and not Ron DeSantis and not Chris Christie. There's a lot to unpack here.

Let's begin with our Jessica Dean live at Grandview University in Des Moines. Jessica, good morning to you.

Iowa voters in that room getting to ask their questions and I think hear from a tonally changed Ron DeSantis.

JESSICA DEAN, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I think that's right. And Phil is right, too, the music really sets the stage. We're now just about five weeks from the Iowa caucuses. And you know what that means. Things are getting serious here in Iowa and a lot of these voters perhaps are really engaging for the first time trying to figure out who they want to support.

And last night, we heard from Florida Governor Ron DeSantis, who absolutely went right after the frontrunner, former President Donald Trump, and took those questions from the audience. So many people around him really excited for him to have that platform to talk directly to Iowans with just a few weeks to go before voting starts. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DEAN (voice over): Republican Presidential Candidate Governor Ron DeSantis answering questions from Iowa voters and taking aim at the GOP frontrunner.

DESANTIS: Donald Trump, so he's -- when he gets off the teleprompter now, you don't know what he's going to say.

I went to the rallies with Donald Trump. He said he was going to build the wall and have Mexico pay for it, and that didn't happen.

That last year with COVID, I think, was mishandled dramatically. Shutting down the country was a huge mistake.

One thing in this race that I think is important to point out is Donald Trump flip-flopping on the right to life, Trump tweeting and attacking people. I think that created division that we didn't need.

DEAN: DeSantis feeling the pressure to gain support in Iowa after disappointing poll numbers from the Des Moines Register earlier this week show Trump still has a commanding lead in the state. He downplayed the polls, though, touting his ground organization in the Hawkeye State.

DESANTIS: Iowa voters will choose, not pundits and polls. We've got the best organization anyone has ever had in Iowa. We've got tens of thousands of Iowans who've already committed to caucus for us.

DEAN: DeSantis fielding many questions on foreign policy, saying he feels Israel over Ukraine has the most need for U.S. assistance.

DESANTIS: It's the state of Israel because they are our strongest ally in the Middle East. We have a relationship with them that's like no other and they have the whole world against us. They require the United States to be there to stand with them as a friend. Ukraine has all of Europe. These European countries need to start pulling their weight.

DEAN: He's also supporting congressional Republicans who are refusing to authorize further military aid to Ukraine unless more is done to secure the U.S. southern border.

DESANTIS: What they are saying is you've got to defend our own country's borders before you start sending money all across this world. As president, I'll do the border on day one.

[07:05:00]

Day one, we're going to declare it a national emergency. I'm sending the military to the southern border. We're going to stop the invasion.

DEAN: California Governor Gavin Newsom, a surrogate for President Biden's re-election campaign, criticizing DeSantis' performance, calling it, quote, his signature rant and scare tactics that offer no solutions to the real issues that matter to Americans across the country.

SUNUNU: We are all-in on Nikki Haley.

DEAN: Meanwhile in New Hampshire, former South Carolina governor Nikki Haley winning out against DeSantis and others to get a highly sought endorsement from that state's governor, Chris Sununu.

NIKKI HALEY, REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I mean, it doesn't get any better than this. To go and get endorsed by the live free or die governor is about as rock solid of an endorsement as we could hope for.

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DEAN (on camera): A big get for Nikki Haley as we head into this final stretch of the primary before the voting begins. But the question remains, and it really looms over this entire primary, we saw Governor Ron DeSantis get the endorsement of a very popular Republican governor here in Iowa, Kim Reynolds. Nikki Haley has the endorsement now of Chris Sununu in New Hampshire. But the question, Phil and Poppy, will it do anything to slow former President Donald Trump, who continues to lead in so much of the polling in these states? We're just going to have to see what the voters have to say.

And to that end, back here in Iowa, we will see the former president in Iowa here today. He's going to make remarks. And on the stage behind me, we will see Vivek Ramaswamy also running for the GOP nomination. He will take part in a town hall right here on CNN at 9:00 P.M. with Abby Phillip.

Back to you guys.

MATTINGLY: A big month ahead. Jessica Dean, thank you.

HARLOW: With us now, CNN Political Commentator, former White House Communications Director Kate Bedingfield and former White House Communications Director Anthony Scaramucci, two White House communications directors.

MATTINGLY: Very similar experiences in bosses.

ANTHONY SCARAMUCCI, FORMER WHITE HOUSE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: I think she may last a little longer than --

HARLOW: you know. I was going to say for a shorter term, but I didn't want to be mean.

KATE BEDINGFIELD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I should have calculated my Scaramuccis. I didn't think about that. That was a mistake.

HARLOW: Who do you think?

SCARAMUCCI: It was short. But just remember, good things come in small packages. Okay, let's go.

HARLOW: Okay, let's go. Kate, who had a better night last night, Ron DeSantis or Nikki Haley?

BEDINGFIELD: I actually think Ron DeSantos did have a pretty good night last night. He seemed sharper. He seemed more focused. He seemed to be making a case that he sort of struggled to make throughout this primary about why him and not Trump. So, I thought he kind of showed a life that I sort of hadn't seen from him yet.

But the challenge for him, I think, is he has put all of his eggs in the Iowa basket. He's said many times, I have to win Iowa. I expect to win Iowa. He's losing by 30 points right now. There's still five weeks to go. People will make their decisions.

But for him, falling short in Iowa is going to leave him with no momentum coming out of that contest, whereas Nikki Haley has set up camp in New Hampshire, got this really key endorsement in a state where endorsements do sometimes still matter, and this one I think probably does, and so has set herself up for long term momentum. So, I think that's the difference.

I would say Ron had a really good night last night in the moment, but Nikki probably had the better strategic night.

MATTINGLY: Just to note, the record reflects 7:07 A.M., Kate Bedingfield complimented Ron DeSantis.

HARLOW: And Nikki Haley.

BEDINGFIELD: I'm going to lose my cred, guys.

MATTINGLY: What is going on here?

BEDINGFIELD: Be cool.

MATTINGLY: When you look at kind of the dynamic that Poppy laid out, if you're looking at last night, two big nights for two key candidates considered in the second tier, give me the case to make Jess' point, voters vote, polls don't vote, that one of those two people has a chance.

SCARAMUCCI: Well, I think that they probably don't have a chance in Iowa, just being totally candid, because of the way the thing is set up. But they do have a chance in New Hampshire. And I think that's the point that all three of those candidates would make, whether it's Governor Haley or Governor DeSantis or Governor Christie, because you have independents that can vote. President Biden is off the ballot in New Hampshire. There can be crossover voting. And I think they're all trying to see themselves, or at least the ones that are behind is John McCain, back in the day when John McCain was really nowhere. And, by the way, we could go to President Biden himself. He had a hard time in New Hampshire then he obviously won in South Carolina and so forth.

So, to me, if you're the candidate and you believe that you can be president of the United States, you want to stay in the race and you want to fight until at least you hear from a voter, not from a pundit or a pollster, I think that's case. HARLOW: That's fair, right? But how is Trump going to take to DeSantis' big tick-up in criticism of him? What's he going to do about it? What's he going to say in Iowa today about it?

SCARAMUCCI: Well, I think he's going to bash him very hard. He's going to go to the fact that a lot of the legislators in the state of Florida are with President Trump. He's going to bash him hard about 2018, where he was neck and neck in the race. And without the president's endorsement, he probably wouldn't have won the governorship. And then he'll personal ridicule that he's known for.

[07:10:02]

And you know, listen, Governor DeSantis has a very good record in Florida. I think, Kate gave a very fair assessment of him. But he really hasn't shown up to be president. When you look at him, the American people have a little test in their head, president, not president, and he has never really rung the bell for a large enough people as president. They don't see him as president.

He doesn't have the rizz. Isn't that a new --

HARLOW: The rizz?

MATTINGLY: Look at this guy. There's a no-percent chance Poppy knows what you're talking about. I do, and I have a deeply, deeply respect for you.

HARLOW: I have no idea what --

SCARAMUCCI: No rizz. And you know that, and I know that.

BEDINGFIELD: I'm young. I'm young. I'm hip. I'm cool. Excuse me, I know what it's like.

SCARAMUCCI: He's got no rizz. And I think that's really what Trump is going to press on as it relates to this.

MATTINGLY: Can I -- I am of the opinion beyond the opinion of this, I love where that went, is the most important thing that happened this week in politics happened in Texas. And that is based on everything we've seen in midterm elections, off-year elections.

Do we have the Nikki Haley sound from yesterday addressing the decision? We don't have the sound, but it very much tracks with what we've seen in her positioning on abortion over the course of the last several weeks, despite saying she would sign a six-week abortion ban.

Every Democrat I talked to says, don't fall for it. She has a legislative record. She has a record of what she would endorse. Messaging doesn't change the fact the issue is a death knell for Republicans.

BEDINGFIELD: Well, despite the fact that she would sign a six -week ban, it's a huge despite, right? I mean, that is if she somehow manages to become the Republican nominee, she will be tagged with that. The Democrats will make clear that every voter in America knows that she said just a couple -- just eight weeks ago that she would sign a six -week ban if it came to her desk.

So, yes, I would argue it is not a messaging problem for Republicans, it's a substantive problem. It's the fact that voters have seen since the fall of Roe Republicans have consistently tried to take away women's rights to make these decisions with their doctors. It's really -- the issue has really come under a rubric of freedom and choice and rights, and Republicans have been on the wrong side of that.

So, I think Republicans have a credibility problem writ large on this. I think Nikki Haley, if she were the nominee, would have a credibility problem writ large on it. And she just said a couple of months ago she'd sign a six-week ban. That's the position that Democrats would force her to defend.

HARLOW: And Phil is right to point to her record as governor in the state of South Carolina on this, which is going to get a whole lot more attention.

Thanks, Anthony Rizz Scaramucci.

MATTINGLY: Nobody questions Anthony's rizz. I'm just going to be real with you right now. I've been to enough (INAUDIBLE) conferences as a reporter. There's no questioning that.

SCARAMUCCI: Phil, you got the rizz too.

HARLOW: He does, down to the bedazzled, a flag on your lapel.

MATTINGLY: Anthony, Kate Bedinfield, great to have you up here, pal. Thanks, guys.

And today on Inside Politics, you have to watch Republican Presidential Candidate Nikki Haley and Governor Chris Sununu will sit down with Dana Bash in a joint interview here, why the New Hampshire governor is throwing his support behind the former South Carolina governor in her bid for the White House. The interview airs today at 12:00 P.M. Eastern.

HARLOW: New this morning, how the Biden administration is reacting to calls to stop providing unconditional aid to Israel unless they do more to protect civilians in Gaza.

MATTINGLY: And the new tactic the Israeli military is using to drown out Hamas. We're going to speak to a government spokesperson next.

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MATTINGLY: Well, this just in, we are learning that President Biden is expected to meet today with the families of all eight unaccounted for Americans thought to have been abducted by Hamas on October 7th. The whereabouts of one woman and seven men are currently unknown following Hamas' October 7th attack on Israel, according to the White House. Four Americans have been released so far.

This will be Biden's first in-person meeting with the families of American hostages. He previously met with them via Zoom in October.

HARLOW: The Israeli military, meantime, suffering one of its deadliest losses yet in the war on Gaza. The IDF says nine of its soldiers, including a commander, were killed in a single incident.

This is new video now released by the Israeli military this morning. And it just shows how intense the fighting on the ground has been in the Gaza Strip. You can see Israeli troops taking cover in craters and sprinting through the ruins as gunfire rings out.

Meantime, there is very much a growing rift between the United States and Israel over the war in Gaza, and it is now spilling out into public view as civilian casualties mount. President Biden delivering his sharpest warning yet to Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and his hard-right government, Biden telling donors at a fundraiser that Israel is losing international support because of the indiscriminate bombing in Gaza.

More than 18,000 people have been killed in the Gaza Strip since Israel launched its military campaign, according to the Hamas- controlled health ministry. But the Biden administration is also making clear it has no plans to put any conditions on military aid for Israel, that is despite growing pressure from Democratic lawmakers and human rights groups over the staggering number of civilian losses in Gaza.

Let's bring in Natasha Bertrand with more. It's quite a juxtaposition, say these things at a fundraiser, say these things in public, listen to Netanyahu saying, we disagree on the endgame in Gaza, and yet no conditions on aid. Why?

NATASHA BERTRAND, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY REPORTER: Yes. And I think that's something else he said during that fundraiser is really indicative of how the president is thinking here, because he said, you know, I'm having these tough conversations with Netanyahu. We're making clear that they're losing support by the international community. But at the same time, he said, quote, we're not going to do a damn thing other than protect Israel in the process, not a single thing.

And that really underscores just how committed the president remains to providing Israel with this military equipment, even as he and his team are increasingly, you know, disappointed by the number of civilian casualties that the Israeli operation has incurred.

And so what we're hearing is that the reason they don't want to put these conditions on the weaponry that they are providing to the Israelis, which include bombs, of course, is because they believe that the quiet pressure behind the scenes is having more of an impact on changing Israel's behavior.

[07:20:09] And they point to the early days of the war when the Israelis apparently had a much larger scale operation in mind for Gaza that the U.S. was able to pull them back from.

So, they believe that they can influence Israel's behavior through these private conversations and not through restricting the kind of military aid and equipment that they send to the Israelis.

HARLOW: You have some really interesting new reporting on a new tactic that Israel is using, and it has to do with flooding some of Hamas' tunnels with saltwater. What can you tell us?

BERTRAND: Yes. So this is something that according to a U.S. official, the Israelis told the United States that they are testing out on a limited basis. And they say that they don't know if it's going to work yet because they want to, of course, drive Hamas fighters out of this very vast tunnel network that they have inside Gaza. But they reassured the United States that they are only flooding tunnels with seawater that they believe do not have hostages inside of them. And they said to the United States that they are being pretty careful and only testing this out on a very limited basis.

But President Biden, he said last night that he actually is not 100 percent confident that there are no hostages in these tunnels where the seawater is being poured into. Here is what he said.

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BIDEN: I'm -- well, there is assertions being made that there's quite sure there are no hostages in any of these tunnels, but I don't know that for a fact.

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BERTRAND: So, this just shows really how dependent the U.S. is on what the Israelis are telling them, because, of course, the U.S. doesn't have great visibility into what's going on in Gaza. The U.S. also, of course, has a very large stake in the hostage's safety with American citizens, of course, being among the hostages. Poppy?

HARLOW: Yes, as the president gets ready to meet with those families in person today.

Natasha, thank you, fascinating reporting, I appreciate it very much. Phil?

MATTINGLY: And joining us now is Israeli Government Spokesperson Eylon Levy. We appreciate your time.

I want to start with where Natasha concluded, and that is on the limited basis efforts we've heard about, we've had reporting about, about flooding some of these tunnels with seawater. Can you explain to people what that actually means and why there's confidence that there wouldn't be any hostages or civilians there?

EYLON LEVY, ISRAELI GOVERNMENT SPOKESPERSON: Israel is now having to find new creative and innovative ways to deal with an unprecedented threat in urban warfare, a whole underground city of tunnels built underneath urban areas in Gaza by Hamas to shield its terrorists.

Now, I can't comment on the specific ways that our soldiers are going about destroying those tunnels, but we will, of course, be operating on the basis of precise intelligence. We will not do anything to harm the hostages. It is a central mission of this goal to bring the hostages home safe and sound.

That's why, like so many Israelis, I have a dog tag around my neck now that says, bring them home now. This is an intensely personal issue for us in Israel, 135 hostages, and we're committed to bringing them all home, the men and the women, the young and the old, the civilians and the soldiers. We're committed to that pledge. There will be no one left behind. And we'll do everything we can to bring them home while continuing with our campaign to destroy the Hamas terror state in response to the atrocities of 10/7.

MATTINGLY: It is certainly a central issue for the president and the U.S. side as well, the president will be meeting, as we reported, with those families, the families of the eight unaccounted for Americans today.

There has been a lot of discussion about the public view of at least what appeared to be a very clear split between the prime minister and the president yesterday, the president's remarks at a closed door fundraiser. I see your skepticism in your face in terms of how you reacted. Why?

LEVY: President Biden said in that statement that Israel enjoys the support of most of the world, and it enjoys the support of most of the world, because everyone understands that the atrocities of 10/7 cannot go unanswered, and the response to those barbaric atrocities must be the end of the Hamas terror regime.

Now, we know that some nations are perhaps losing nerve. They're losing nerve because Hamas is working very hard to manufacture a humanitarian crisis in Gaza. It continues to operate in civilian dress, out of civilian areas, deliberately trying to put civilians in harm's way, because it knows that those images will generate sympathy, and sympathy will generate diplomatic pressure on Israel to stop defending ourselves.

Thankfully, the United States and the Biden administration have had the moral clarity from the very beginning of this war to say, we have to stand by Israel's side as it goes after the monsters who perpetrated the October 7th massacre. That's the only way this war can end.

MATTINGLY: You make an important point, and nuance is important here. There is no talk of the U.S. changing its posture. The president, I think, is probably as steadfast on this issue as certainly any Democrat in a generation, to some degree.

[07:25:00] But the point that the president has been making and that he said he had made to the prime minister in their calls is if -- to what you're saying other countries are losing their nerve, particularly close allies, and that's your framing of things, that is a big problem, not for the U.S. and their support but for Israel and what happens next in the process and the timeline of this conflict.

LEVY: We know that we're fighting the most moral fight imaginable, and that's a fight to bring to justice the monsters who perpetrated the 10/7 atrocities. This war will end when it is safe for children to sleep in Kfar Aza and Be'eri and Nir Oz, and our allies know that. And as part of that, we're striking Hamas with unprecedented precision.

We know that we are going after the October 7th monsters, after the terrorists who did that. We're going after those Hamas leaders, and we're doing it with precision unprecedented in the history of warfare, taking steps that no army in the history of counterterrorism operations in the world has taken to protect civilians.

And part of our job is to continue reminding the world the efforts that we are making to minimize civilian casualties on the other side despite Hamas' best efforts, it's sick, it's twisted, it's deranged, despite Hamas' best efforts to maximize civilian casualties, to manufacture humanitarian crisis inside Gaza because they think that those images will generate sympathy and sympathy will generate diplomatic pressure that will stop us fighting and doing what we have to do in order to keep our children safe and make sure that Hamas can never perpetrate another 10/7, like it's been promising to do ever since that dark day.

MATTINGLY: I know there are differences of opinion on the day after, right? And that's understandable. Even U.S. officials acknowledge, given what happened on October 7, the fact that the focus is on the military operation is exactly where the U.S. would be in a situation like that.

However, the U.S. has made clear repeatedly that it wants to see the Palestinian Authority or thinks the Palestinian Authority is the only real entity that's operational at this point that could lead Gaza. The prime minister has been explicit that that is not going to happen. He will not allow that to happen. How do you resolve this?

LEVY: Unfortunately, the last time we gave the Gaza Strip to the Palestinian Authority on a silver platter, when Israel withdrew from the Gaza Strip in 2005, that led to the election of Hamas and then a coup, in which Hamas overthrew the Palestinian Authority.

MATTINGLY: Is a two-state solution just not on the table at this point? I'm not being flippant about this but --

LEVY: You're asking me questions about-- no, no, I understand, but you're asking me questions about long-term political horizon while we still have body bags of unidentifiable human remains.

At the moment, our objective is to bring Hamas down, to destroy Hamas in response to the 10/7 massacre, and we know that what is going to happen the day after is that Hamas will no longer govern the Gaza Strip.

Now, we have a problem with the Palestinian Authority, which, since 10/7, has been denying those atrocities, has been projecting blame for those atrocities onto Israel, and has been giving extensive political and diplomatic cover for Hamas.

Just the other day, the Palestinian prime minister, often presented as being a moderate, said that Hamas is an inextricable and inseparable part of the Palestinian fabric. And we're saying that whoever governs Hamas -- whoever governs Gaza the day after Hamas must fight terror and not fund terror. And they must be clear that Hamas has no place in Palestinian politics, instead of trying to make excuses for its crimes and saying that it's an inseparable part of the Palestinian fabric. We need a partner that is committed to fighting terrorism, not funding terrorism and making excuses for it.

MATTINGLY: Eylon Levy, we appreciate your time this morning. Thank you.

LEVY: Thank you.

MATTINGLY: And later this hour, we'll be joined by the White House's John Kirby with more on the U.S. support for Israel and Ukraine.

HARLOW: Breaking overnight, nearly 200 countries have agreed to transition away from planet-destroying fossil fuels. Why some say this historic deal still falls short.

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