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New Deal Reached To Transition Away From Fossil Fuels; New York Governor Kathy Hochul (D) Joins CNN This Morning; Biden: U.S. Will Support Ukraine "As Long As It Can." Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired December 13, 2023 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[07:33:00]

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: New this morning, a landmark deal reached at the COP28 summit in Dubai -- one that could push the globe away from using fossil fuels that, of course, can contribute a lot to the climate crisis. Does the deal have any teeth?

Bill Weir joins us now at the table. Good morning.

BILL WEIR, CNN CHIEF CLIMATE CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, friends.

HARLOW: It's a good headline.

WEIR: It is a good headline. It beats the alternative. Now, the optimists would say wow -- for the first time ever, we have language that says the world is agreeing to move, eventually, away from fossil fuels and find a cleaner future. The pessimists would say it took us 30 years to finally mention the elephant in the room that everybody knows and it's pretty squishy. There's a lot of loopholes here. Instead of saying, like at Paris, we will hold the line at this temperature and do everything we can, now there's eight different pathways that countries can take.

One would be to get off of oil and gas and stop production and stop use. Another pathway would be to triple renewable energy. So let's say Saudi Arabia, for example, could say hey, we tripled our solar power, but they're still putting gigatons of carbon pollution into the sky at the same time. And that's where the small island nations take issue with this. The activists who are saying this is not enough at this point, but it is something.

And right now, John Kerry, the U.S. climate envoy, is talking with Chinese counterparts about long-term plans.

A lot of good came out of this COP. First-ever loss and damage fund for small countries not big enough, but it's there at least. Commitments to dial down methane gas and natural gas as it's sold to us. Huge contributor to the problem.

So you take your wins where you can and in the end, they still could nibble around the edges on the -- on the language. PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN ANCHOR: What are you going to be watching to see if this actually has an effect?

WEIR: You know, you can really just follow the money and see where the investment is going right now. Half a trillion dollars has followed the Investment Reduction Act of private money. A lot of people at COP say even the oil majors know the end of fossil fuels is nye. They can't say it out loud. It's just a matter of how fast we transition to that.

HARLOW: Bill Weir, thank you for always keeping this front and center. Appreciate it.

WEIR: Thank you -- you bet.

[07:35:00]

MATTINGLY: Well, this week, three states are hearing cases about abortion rights. Next, we're going to sit down with one leader working to protect abortion access in her state. New York Gov. Kathy Hochul joins us live in studio next.

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MATTINGLY: Well, abortion will be back front and center in several states across America this week. Three state Supreme Courts in Arizona, New Mexico, and Wyoming are taking up abortion lawsuits that could restrict access in those states.

This, of course, comes after Texas, on Monday, rejected a woman's request for an abortion under the state's medical emergency exception, reversing a lower court's ruling that would have allowed her to end her high-risk pregnancy.

Joining us now, Democratic governor of New York, Kathy Hochul. We appreciate your time, Governor -- welcome.

GOV. KATHY HOCHUL, (D) NEW YORK: Thank you. Good morning.

HARLOW: Good morning

MATTINGLY: I want to start on Texas because I think this is a very, very central issue not just politically but I think as people try and understand the post-Roe environment in particular states.

What was your response when you saw it play out?

HOCHUL: This is the nightmare that every woman has feared since we actually had the leaked memo about the Dobbs decision -- that it would go against 50 years of rights that women fought so hard for. My mother's generation fought for those rights. I've benefitted from those rights. And now, those rights will not be there for my daughter and my granddaughter. So that is to me -- personally, it's abhorrent. And as a woman, it's tragic.

But as a governor, I have a different philosophy on this and I will talk about what we're doing next November on the ballots in the state of New York --

HARLOW: Exactly what I wanted to talk about.

HOCHUL: Yes.

HARLOW: So, abortion is going to be on the ballot. It's all -- it's going to be on the ballot to codify that right in the state as people go also to vote on -- which is amazing that we don't have it yet -- an equal rights amendment in this country for women.

[07:40:05]

Why it is important that in a state like New York where you don't really have the threat from the legislature of getting rid of abortion rights, to have that codified on the ballot this way?

HOCHUL: There actually are threats. I mean, there was an election for governor last year and there was an opponent who had said that he would put in a pro-life health commissioner. Health commissioners have a lot of power. That could have happened right here in the state of New York regardless of what the law says.

So as soon as we heard about Dobbs, I convened the legislature in an emergency session. I said let's get this codified not just in state law but enshrined in our state constitution so future governors, whatever their philosophy may be, if it's at odds with these values that they will not be able to successfully strip those rights away from New York women.

And I'm calling on all state governors. Regardless of your own philosophy, let the women of your state decide. It happened in Kentucky. It happened in Ohio. Put it on the ballot. Let these women decide their own destiny and not have a bunch of mega men determine the outcome of their lives and, indeed, their health.

MATTINGLY: You make a point the electoral success on abortion that Democrats have had on this issue over the course of not just the midterm elections but also an off-year election as well. New York is going to be centerstage for the House of Representatives to some degree -- to somebody who would say you're just putting this on the ballot, given it's a blue state, because you want to juice turnout --

HARLOW: Um-hum.

MATTINGLY: -- in the midterm -- for 2024.

HOCHUL: Well, that's pretty cynical because as you pointed out, we don't even have an equal rights amendment in the state of New York so we are enshrining many rights -- reproductive rights, LGBTQ rights, right for people with disabilities. We're enshrining all the rights that could be jeopardized by future governors and putting them on the ballot.

This was a decision that was made prior to the Dobbs decision, I assure you, because it takes two cycles of the legislature. So now we've gone through four years ago. So I would say I disagree with that assessment.

But this is time for a place like New York to stand up, be a beacon of hope, and really be the safe harbor. Women of Texas, businesses in Texas who employ women, where people have wives and daughters and mothers, come to New York. Come to a place like this and make a statement.

HARLOW: So you see this as an economic case to be made to bring a lot of business that has fled to states like Florida and Texas because of some of them are more seen as pro-business policies or tax structure, et cetera, as coming back here as a result of that?

HOCHUL: First of all, we are pro-business in the state of New York.

HARLOW: I knew you were going to say that but you know the counter I'm giving you.

HOCHUL: But also, we're pro-women. We're pro-human rights. We're pro- freedom for women. We're freedom-loving here in the state of New York. We don't think that mega judges and an attorney general from the state of Texas who is just trying to elevate his profile and get more clicks and be the darling of the mega right -- they should not be the ones who make these determinations.

So after the Dobbs decision, I literally took out a full-page ad in The Wall Street Journal --

HARLOW: Um-hum.

HOCHUL: -- and said if you value your freedoms of your employees and your workers, come to New York where they will be protected.

And other states -- other states where we actually honor women, respect them, and think that they should be able to determine what happens to their own body.

And not have someone say to a young mother, Kate Cox -- a 31-year-old mother who wanted to grow her family and was so devastated when she found out that her baby had a fetal genetic disease that could result in death upon -- even earlier -- pre-term death or as soon as the baby is born it would be -- have -- it would die or the mother could die.

I mean, this is what the exception of the Texas law provided and judges still went against her. I mean, this shakes you to a core as a woman and it is -- it is so reprehensible.

I am proud to stand up not just for New York women but all across America and say this is wrong. This is our country, America, in 2024 almost. What have we come to? We must stand up at election time and change the course of history.

MATTINGLY: You mention the election. I'm not connecting the two here but there was a pretty significant moment yesterday in the state of New York in terms of redistricting -- where that might head going forward. Is it your sense right now that Democrats will as aggressively pursue specific maps as they did with the maps that ended up being overturned?

HOCHUL: My view is this. As governor, I have to make sure that the process plays out according to law. That's all this was about. And a judge in the rural part of New York had a different determination on who had those rights. And the Court of Appeals that predated -- the Court of Appeals that I had some say over -- they had a different opinion on this.

I'm not putting my finger on the scale and saying it should be good for Democrats or Republicans. It's not my job. My job is to say the process is an independent redistricting commission decides it and if they can't come to a decision the state legislature decides -- not a rural judge. That's all we're talking about here.

[07:45:03]

MATTINGLY: All right.

HARLOW: It's seen as going to be a big boon for Democrats. We'll watch as it plays out.

HOCHUL: We shall see.

HARLOW: We shall see.

Governor, nice to have you in studio.

HOCHUL: Nice to both of you.

HARLOW: Thank you very much.

HOCHUL: Thank you.

HARLOW: Appreciate it.

So this morning, it appears President Zelenskyy's visit to Capitol Hill did not do a lot to convince some Republican lawmakers on supporting more aid for Ukraine, at least without a border deal. We'll get reaction from the White House. John Kirby is with us next.

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HARLOW: This morning, reports of some movement on Capitol Hill toward a deal that would provide that much-needed additional U.S. aid to Ukraine. It is still, though, far from a settled deal. The clock is ticking after President Zelenskyy spent the day in Washington yesterday urging U.S. officials to help his country.

It appears Zelenskyy's plea for more support failed to change some Republican minds. Republican Sen. John Cornyn telling CNN the Ukrainian leader quote, "Didn't move the needle at all."

President Biden announced yesterday the U.S. will release another $200 million already-approved funding to help bolster Ukraine's defense. But he also appeared to acknowledge the current congressional climate changing -- a key phrase he has used multiple times when talking about Ukraine.

Listen to the president's pledge for Ukraine and support back in June.

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JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The fact of the matter is that I believe we'll have the funding necessary to support Ukraine as long as it takes.

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[07:50:02]

HARLOW: And here he is yesterday.

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BIDEN: We'll continue to supply Ukraine with critical weapons and equipment as long as we can.

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HARLOW: From "as long as it takes" to "as long as we can."

With us now from the White House is John Kirby, the National Security Council coordinator for strategic communications. Admiral, I appreciate you being with us this morning.

Was that an intentional direct shift in the president's wording?

JOHN KIRBY, NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL COORDINATOR FOR STRATEGIC COMMUNICATIONS: Oh, the president still wants to be able to support Ukraine for as long as it takes.

What he's reflecting is the reality on Capitol Hill, which is that we don't have additional funding now heading into the new year, Poppy. And so, we're working really hard at the negotiating table to see if we can't get that over the finish line. And that's what he was referring to.

HARLOW: We had Sec. Mayorkas on talking about the border and this issue just last week. And he did say to me that -- talking about some of the Republican proposals. Quote, "Some of them are reasonable and worthy of discussion."

Where is the White House willing to give here on the border so you can get the Ukraine funding?

KIRBY: Well, I hope you can understand I won't negotiate here on national TV in public --

HARLOW: Just broadly.

KIRBY: -- about what we're talking about.

But the president has said that he's willing to have a serious good- faith negotiation with the other side not just on border security -- and oh, by the way, border security was baked into our supplemental requests -- some $6 billion.

HARLOW: But --

KIRBY: But also on immigration policies -- policies in general about the immigration system. So he's willing to have a good-faith negotiation --

HARLOW: Totally.

KIRBY: -- over both those two things.

HARLOW: But Admiral, that's the point, for example, Sen. Lankford, who is leading this on the Republican side, is making. You guys -- the White House coupled this together in the supplemental and it's got to stay coupled for us to get Ukraine funding.

Why is that wrong?

KIRBY: We didn't -- I didn't say it was wrong. I mean, we did put border, and Ukraine, and Israel, and Indo-Pacific funding in the supplemental. And we're not certainly walking away from the idea that there's a negotiation going on right now to talk about border security and immigration reform and to get funding for Ukraine.

We're approaching this pretty pragmatically. We understand that, certainly, on the House on the Republican side that they -- that they've got both of these sort of attached to one another. So we're willing to engage in a -- in a very transparent way on both.

HARLOW: I want to move to what the president's going to do today with hostages. He met with families of those hostages still being held by Hamas on Zoom a couple of months ago. It's going to be in person today.

And there's this really striking moment where we saw you meeting with Ruby Chen. We've had him on a number of times. His son, Itay, is being held, still, hostage in Gaza. And he's giving you -- let's play it for people -- a dog tag. And it has -- I'm sorry, we don't have it. But it was a really moving moment when I watched it this morning. Actually, Phil sent it to me. And it's just indicative of how much these families are relying on you guys to bring their loved ones home.

Can the White House guarantee --

KIRBY: Yeah.

HARLOW: -- you're going to be able to do that?

KIRBY: Well, we'll be able to guarantee them today. And the president will meet with all of them -- most, in person. There will be some I think virtually. But he'll guarantee them that we are not going to lose sight on their loved ones. We're not going to stop trying to get them home.

Hour by hour, Poppy, literally, we are trying to get more information about them and to get them -- to get a deal in place where we can get them back home.

Jake Sullivan, our National Security adviser, is on his way right now. He'll have meetings in Tel Aviv later tonight and tomorrow on this very issue.

So it's something that the president is 100 percent committed to, and that will be the message for those families today.

HARLOW: We certainly hope so. And look, the administration has had a lot of success in bringing Americans home. Obviously, you're working on key others as well.

I --

KIRBY: We have.

HARLOW: -- think a lot of Americans have questions about the U.S. position when it comes to aid for Israel. Granted, there is a special relationship there. But that aid remains unconditional despite what is clearly a growing divide between President Biden and Benjamin Netanyahu on the gap, as Sec. Blinken said, between what Israel says about proportionality and civilian casualties of Palestinians --

KIRBY: Right.

HARLOW: -- and the actual execution, and the end game. Netanyahu was pretty clear that he disagrees with the White House on what the end game for Gaza should be.

Why is Ukraine aid conditioned from the U.S. in a way that Israel aid is not?

KIRBY: Well, I would say, first of all, every bit of security assistance we provide another country comes with expectations about it being used appropriately with the law of armed conflict. That's no different for Israel than it is for Ukraine or any other country. There's always those expectations. It's got to be in accordance with international law.

These are two different fights. The Israelis are going after embedded terrorist activities and terrorist leaders that are hiding in infrastructure under -- in tunnels, under hospitals and schools. I mean, it's a -- it's a fight against a terrorist network. What Ukraine is doing is trying to win back territory that the Russians have occupied and taken from them. It's a completely different fight.

But in each case, we talk to both of those partners about how our weapons and our capabilities are being used and making sure that they're being used, again, in full compliance with the international law and the law of armed conflict.

[07:55:06] HARLOW: I would just note from people they're -- like, for example, the U.S. conditions -- the aid to Ukraine -- that they cannot use it to -- U.S.-provided weapons to attack inside of Russia. Different conditions. More conditions than are on Israel aid.

I just -- on that point, I do want to ask you about what the U.S. is looking into right now, Admiral, on Israel using phosphorus munitions supplied by the U.S. in an attack in southern Lebanon that did injure civilians. I know the guidelines for that not to violate those rules is that it is for quote, "legitimate purposes and in keeping with the laws of armed conflict."

My question to you is --

KIRBY: That's right.

HARLOW: -- does the U.S. have certainty that those two things are what happened here?

KIRBY: We don't have full transparency and visibility on what exactly happened up in Lebanon with the -- with these reported uses of white phosphorus. We're looking into that. We obviously want to know more. We're asking more questions of our Israeli counterparts about those reports to see if they're accurate and how -- if white phosphorus was used how it was used.

It does have a legitimate purpose for illumination and for smoke cover for concealing the movement of your troops. And I can tell you for sure -- because we checked on this -- we have not provided any white phosphorus shells to Israel since October 7.

HARLOW: So this would be if it were used prior.

Admiral Kirby --

KIRBY: Yeah.

HARLOW: -- thank you very much for being with us. And obviously --

KIRBY: Yes, ma'am.

HARLOW: -- our best thoughts for the important meeting today with the hostages' families. Thanks very much.

KIRBY: Yes, ma'am. Yes, ma'am.

HARLOW: We'll be right back.

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