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Supreme Court to Hear Abortion Access Case; Giuliani Defamation Trial; Putin Addresses War in News Conference. Aired 6:30-7a ET

Aired December 14, 2023 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[06:30:00]

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: But what - and it's not just Republican that do it.

LEE CARTER, STRATEGIC COMMUNICATIONS EXPERT: Yes.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN ANCHOR: Because the influence peddling looks terrible.

HILL: But that's exactly -

CARTER: Yes.

MATTINGLY: There's no way it was worth $10 million to be doing x, y, or z. However, there's never been a direct connection to the president, certainly during his presidency. Let's watch this play out. The threshold is certainly different.

Guys, stay with us. Thank you.

Well, there is a new challenge to abortion access. It's heading to the Supreme Court. And this case could bring new restrictions to a post- Roe America. What that means.

HILL: Plus, a vacation turned into a rescue on the high seas. A Carnival cruise ship helping to save six people stranded in the water near the Dominican Republic. The Carnival's Vista was on its way to the northern coast when the ship captain got an emergency alert about a small cargo vessel that had capsized. This happened yesterday morning. Well, the ship raced to the scene. Officers pulled them on board. The men do appear to be OK. The ship then continued to made its way to the D.R. following the rescue.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MATTINGLY: Well, abortion access in a post-Roe America not just center stage for the politics, it's returning to the Supreme Court on the legal side.

[06:35:02]

One of several high-profile cases that could shape the upcoming election year. HILL: The justices will take up a case that could restrict the

abortion drug Mifepristone nationwide. It is their first case related to abortion since Roe v. Wade was overturned, of course, last year. They'll also hear a case that could upend the prosecutions of Donald Trump and January 6th rioters. Its stake there, whether federal prosecutors can use a specific provision to charge them.

MATTINGLY: And the Supreme Court must also weigh whether to decide if Trump has immunity from criminal prosecution for the alleged crimes he committed in office.

Joining us now is CNN's senior Supreme Court analyst, Joan Biskupic.

Other than that, though, a pretty chill term ahead.

On Mifepristone, which we've spoken about a lot since the night that this all started kind of heading in this direction, the FDA has made several changes over recent years to increase accessibility to the abortion pill by allowing the drug to be taken later in pregnancy, mail directed at patients in states that allow abortion access. Explain how these changes are at the heart of the appeal.

JOAN BISKUPIC, CNN SENIOR SUPREME COURT ANALYST: Sure, Phil, morning to you and Erica.

And you're right, I remember, you know when this all started a few months ago when these lower court judges started to restrict access of Mifepristone. You know, we're in a whole new front now on -- in the national controversy over abortion. And the specific regulations here date not to the year 2000, when it was approved, but to starting in 2016 when the FDA started to relax some of the regulations around the drug saying that women could have access to it up to ten weeks of pregnancy, not just up to seven weeks of pregnancy, that non- physicians could be prescribing and dispensing it, as well as physicians, and that that also when it came time to actually get the drug, after consultation with a physician, that it could be by mail rather than in person. So, all those things made it more available. And the FDA said the reason it had decided that is just because the prior restrictions were not -- they were more strict, just were not necessary for the safety and effectiveness in the drug.

And those in that -- that's one of the key things here is not just the availability of a medication abortion, that is now the main way that women end pregnancies in America, but also the authority of the Food and Drug Administration to decide what is best for this drug rather than have lower court judges second guess that.

HILL: Yes, and that's a big part of the challenge. So, it will be fascinating to see the fallout depending on that decision.

The Supreme Court also announced, Joan, on Wednesday, that it is going to consider whether part of a federal obstruction law can be used to prosecute some of the rioters who were involved in the January 6th attack. What's the impact on former President Trump's election interference case potentially? BISKUPIC: OK, so that one, there's an open-ended question there. The

statute at issue, Erica, say -- makes it a crime to corruptly obstruct an official proceeding. And it's one of many parts of federal law that these January 6th rioters cases have been brought under. And so this would - this would definitely affect the case of the man, Joseph Fisher, who is challenging this law as part of his prosecution, but it could have reverberations to the other cases, including Donald Trump's.

But I do want to remind everyone that Donald Trump has -- faces a multitude of charges from the special counsel Jack Smith. So, while this case could inform some of what happens with Donald Trump, he's more broadly -- he has been more broadly charged and probably the really key thing there is, I know what you and Phil are aware of, is the fact that he's - he's saying he should be immune from everything in a criminal prosecution right now, and that's the other part of the case that's up at the Supreme Court.

MATTINGLY: I really thought we were going to get into a debate about Sarbanes-Oxley, instead you shorthanded it, Joan. I'm very disappointed in that fact. Oh, that's a very deep cut reference.

Can I step back for a minute and, from a big picture perspective.

BISKUPIC: Sure.

MATTINGLY: There's so much opacity that surrounds the court. You actually have a window in, somehow, some way, which continues to impress me, into what people are thinking and when. Do you have a sense of whether the justices actually have a sense of when these cases will be landing and the fact that that's in the middle of an election year and the stakes here?

BISKUPIC: I'm sure on Monday, Phil, when the Supreme Court got that request from special counsel Jack Smith to intervene in the Trump, you know, election subversion case, they were very well of suddenly being thrust into this role and, as you and Erica said when you opened it, going right into an election year. So, they -- I'm sure they are aware of the atmospherics. But the question, though, Phil, is, which - which ones care and - and - and should they care? You know, they're supposed to be deciding the law, but this is -- these are things that are going to have consequences for everyone, and as people go to the polls in November. So, it's -- I'm sure it's on their mind. It's just a matter of, you know, how that factors into things, and whether it should, truly, Phil.

HILL: Yes.

MATTINGLY: Yes, that's a really great point.

Joan Biskupic, we appreciate you. Thank you.

[06:40:01]

BISKUPIC: Thank you. HILL: Rudy Giuliani could testify as early as today in his defamation case. One of the election workers suing him revealing her biggest fear following Giuliani's lies.

MATTINGLY: And new reporting this morning on the wildly popular injectable weight loss drugs. They could be fueling a secret surge across America. What we mean? Stay with us.

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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: Ruby Freeman, that's the - she's a vote scammer. A professional vote scammer and hustler. Ruby freeman.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: That was former President Trump, when he was still in office, attacking one of the election workers who is now suing his former lawyer, Rudy Giuliani. It's audio that could now play a pivotal role in the defamation case against Giuliani. His defense is expected to begin today. He told reporters he does intend to testify.

MATTINGLY: Now, it's important to note, Giuliani has already been found liable for defaming Ruby Freeman and her daughter Shaye Moss, accusing them of changing votes during the 2020 election.

[06:45:07]

That never happened. Everything he said has been a lie and has been proven in court. This trial is to determine how much money those two will get.

HILL: Freeman testified yesterday telling the court about the threats that Giuliani's lies created and how they ruined her life, spawning death threats from his supporters, saying, quote, "I took it as though they were going to cut me up and put me into trash bags and take it out to the street.

Joey Jackson, Lee Carter, and David Sanger are back with us.

Every time I hear Ruby Freeman or Shaye Moss speak, I am reminded of that initial testimony and those moments and the way this literally ruined their lives. How much impact, Joey, is this having in this moment?

JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: So, think about what you just said, Erica, right? You're a juror, right? You're a juror out there because you're someone who's evaluating what you're hearing. That's what jurors do, not a juror in the sense that you're on the panel, but you're having an emotional reaction and a connection with the impact that this had.

Going back, what is defamation? False statements that are injurious to your reputation. Statements have consequences. We've heard not only what we heard about Trump saying these things about Ruby Freeman, Ruby Freeman, what she did, which were not true, by the way, but we heard the venom from the public with respect to, we're going to hang you, we're going to do all these things to you.

What am I saying? We're at the damage phase. The jury has to assess, how did this damaged you? How has your life changed? What should the consequences be for that? And our system of justice converts that to money. And not only are you allowed to consider the actual damages, I had to move away from my home, what it did to my child, et cetera, my life's not the same. But what about the emotional damages and stress and what about the jury wanting to punish, that's what punitive damages are.

So, when you hear that and then you hear the president buttoning this up, saying things that are not true, that's a big bully pulpit that affects a lot of people. That's damages 101. I would expect -- unless this defense is amazing on Giuliani's portion -- that there's going to be a verdict for a lot of zeros.

MATTINGLY: I'm going to go out on a limb and say there's not a really amazing defense that you can give to some degree, although maybe if you were his lawyer, Joey -

JACKSON: You are very kind.

MATTINGLY: David, what's so striking about hearing that sound, again, it's from - it's sound we've all heard a million times in the wake of the call with Brad Raffensperger.

DAVID SANGER, CNN POLITICAL AND NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Right.

MATTINGLY: Is, Donald Trump is the frontrunner for the Republican nomination. Donald Trump is leading in general election polls across the country. Donald Trump played a critical, central role in the, and to some degree, destruction of two women's lives who were just there to help count votes. How is that possible?

SANGER: You know, a couple things strike me looking at this, Phil, or listening to it. The first is that he was so into the details that he was repeating her name, you know, a good number of times in the course of this.

MATTINGLY: Yes.

SANGER: Second, that as this argument played out, it was clear that whatever Rudy Giuliani was doing was basically echoing the boss and trying to make sure he was in the boss' good graces. But we're listening to that and thinking not about whether Rudy Giuliani is going to get -- have to do a huge payment here, if he has the money, we're thinking ahead to the Georgia case if it - if it comes to trial because the impact of that is you're hearing the president from the White House making this case. And that's the really interesting element to this.

In the one case that's come out there where he could not pardon himself, one where he could not order the Justice Department to take it apart. Now, if he gets elected, it's very possible that that case against him

gets suspended while he is -- while he is president.

HILL: It's remarkable too, as you look at all that. And when we look at, right, the widespread support that the former president still has. The number of people who are still on board with these election lies, that the election was stolen. No matter how many times that sound may be played from these two women -

CARTER: Yes.

HILL: It's not necessarily hitting people who need to hear it. And we find ourselves back in the same place over and over again.

CARTER: We absolutely do. It's - it is kind of astounding when you look at, even the most recent Iowa poll, 75 percent of Republicans say that they think that Trump has the best chance of beating Joe Biden. You look at - "Morning Consult" just came out with some polls in the seven most important states that have Donald Trump way ahead of Joe Biden in the states that are going to matter the most. And so the question really becomes, does this matter.

I think one of the problems is there's so many different cases against him that it's almost too much. It's like the - I feel like there should be the feng shui of cases against him so that they become more focused. And if we just really focused on Georgia, if we just focused on what happened there, there might be more of an impact. But because there's so many different charges that people are just willing to dismiss them.

[06:50:02]

And the people hear what they want to hear. They only want to listen and tune in to what they want to hear to reconfirm what they already believe. Republicans by and large, whether we like it or not, believe that there's an unfairness that's been treated to -- there's a different standard that's been applied to Donald Trump than anyone else. Seventy-eight percent believe that, 64 percent of them want see him fight back. They don't believe that this is all on Donald Trump. And it has - really, no matter how many times you play the audio, no matter how many times it happens, the thing is not changing. And when you look at his polling numbers, it is - just he continues to go up and up and up.

MATTINGLY: And you pair it with, and we heard it last night in Iowa, the, are you better off than you were four years ago message -- three years ago message, which every president or every person running against an incumbent wants to use, and even Democrats, when you look at the polling, they're not supporting Trump, but they don't feel like they were better off four years ago. And so the weaponization, it's a key segment of the Republican Party, no question about it, but the, are you better off, I would assume is probably the - the message that overtakes more broadly where he's at right now.

CARTER: That's right. And when you look at independent voters who's he's really trying to reach, you know, there is a huge - just about two-thirds of them are saying they're worse off today than they were before. And so that is something that really resonates with them. You look at the primary issue that people are looking at, they're saying that the economy is one of the most important issues. Most say that Donald Trump was better on the economy.

The one caveat I will say is, I think everybody's underestimating the importance of abortion. We were just talking about that.

MATTINGLY: Yes.

CARTER: And seven in ten independent women say that's the primary thing that's going to drive them to the polls. Nine in 10 Democratic women. I think it is completely underestimated by the Republican Party and it's not factored into everything at this point.

HILL: Lee, Joey, David, thank you all.

MATTINGLY: Well, this morning, CNN is going inside Gaza as National Security Adviser Jake Sullivan heads to Israel. We visit the field hospitals where civilians are being treated and face a growing humanitarian crisis.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:56:16]

MATTINGLY: Well, happening right now, Russian President Vladimir Putin holding his end of the year marathon news conference, coming just days after Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy's trip to Washington asking for more military assistance.

HILL: And also this morning, new shelling in the Ukrainian city of Kherson killed a 63-year-old woman, according to local officials. Homes and apartment buildings just destroyed.

CNN's Fred Pleitgen is live in Berlin with more now about Putin and this message, it is always a marathon, as Phil said, his message about the war, Fred.

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Right. Yes, absolutely it is a marathon. He's going on almost three hours now, Erica. So, we can certainly call it a marathon.

You're absolutely right, the war in Ukraine, obviously, left, right, and center in this press conference. We see Vladimir Putin very confident. One of the things that he's been saying is that he believes right now the Russians have the initiative on the battlefield. He claims that they are pushing the Ukrainians back, even though, of course we know the Russians have suffered some really devastating losses over the past couple of days, the past couple of weeks.

His message to the Ukrainians this morning is, give up or else. I want to listen in some of what Vladimir Putin had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VLADIMIR PUTIN, RUSSIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): Either we will agree on demilitarization, agree on certain parameters, and, by the way, during the negotiations in Istanbul we agreed on them, but then they threw these agreements into the oven. But we had agreed on them. Or there are other possibilities, either to reach an agreement or to resolve it by using force. This is what we will strive for.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PLEITGEN: To solve it by using force, obviously very clear message from Vladimir Putin. Also spoke about the issues for the Ukraine funding in Congress and the U.S. as well, saying that he believes that, as he put it, the freebies for Ukraine are quickly running out, guys.

MATTINGLY: Fred, I believe Putin was also asked about wrongfully detained American journalist Evan Gershkovich.

PLEITGEN: Yes.

MATTINGLY: He alleged, I think, the U.S. had some role here or isn't without guilt. What did he say?

PLEITGEN: Yes, he certainly was asked about that. He says that right now there are talks going on between the United States and Russia. First of all, he does say, look, there's a process going on and he was arrested and, obviously, trying to justify all that. But he does say that right now there are talks going on between Russia and the United States about the matter. He, of course, says he can't go into details, but he did say -- and I think this is quite important, he says, "I hope that we will find a solution, but I repeat, the U.S. side should also make a decision that will agree with the Russian side as well."

Of course, the U.S. has been saying that they've been making significant offers to the Russians to try and get Evan Gershkovich back right now. As of right now, that hasn't happened. Certainly the Russians are saying the talks are ongoing, but it certainly also seems that the Russians have some pretty clear things in mind that they want for the U.S. for things to move forward, guys.

MATTINGLY: All right, Fred Pleitgen, I'm sure there's many hours ahead. Please keep us posted. Thank you.

HILL: And "CNN THIS MORNING" continues right now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: The House votes to authorize an impeachment inquiry into President Biden.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They want to dilute the stain of Trump's two legitimate impeachments.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And bring people in for an interview where you can get those facts. HUNTER BIDEN, PRESIDENT BIDEN'S SON: I have been the target of the

unrelenting Trump attack machine.

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT AND 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The next economic boom will begin the instant crooked Joe Biden is gone.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: His message was really about the primary election.

VIVEK RAMASWAMY (R), 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We do have a government that has lied to us systematically over the last several years.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's all platitudes and cliches and spreading of conspiracy theories.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: In Donald Trump's federal election interference case, the judge ordering a pause.

PAULA REID, CNN CHIEF LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: The court of appeals is considering issues that could render the entire thing moot.

ERIN BURNETT, CNN ANCHOR: President Biden meeting with the families of eight Americans still held hostage by Hamas.

[07:00:03]

JOHN KIRBY, COORDINATOR FOR STRATEGIC COMMUNICATIONS, NSC: It's the results that count. The reality of global opinion, it also matters.

CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Absolute horrors in Gaza.