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Thomas S. Warrick is Interviewed about Hamas Attacks on Jewish Targets; Haley Tries to Shatter Glass Ceiling; Kerr Speaks about Green's Suspension. Aired 6:30-7a ET

Aired December 15, 2023 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[06:33:32]

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: Terror arrests in Europe are raising concerns that the reach of Hamas could extend beyond the Middle East. Authorities in Germany and the Netherlands arrested four people they say were plotting attacks on Jewish targets across Europe. They were accused of being longstanding members of Hamas, which the U.S. and the European Union classify, of course, as a terror group. Police officers in Berlin seized evidence from a home tied to the investigation. Officials say the suspects' mission was to locate an underground cache of weapons and bring them to Berlin for attacks.

And this comes just days after the FBI and the Department of Homeland Security released a bulletin warning that the war between Israel and Hamas could, quote, heighten the threat of lone actor violence, targeting large public gatherings throughout the winter.

Joining us now, Thomas Warrick, he's a senior fellow at the Atlantic Council and a former counterterrorism official at the Department of Homeland Security.

Tom, good to see you this morning. Let's - let's start on the arrests in Europe. What do you make of them, and is it a heightened level of concern for you when you see these arrests or is this something that you actually anticipated?

THOMAS S. WARRICK, FORMER DHS DEPUTY ASST. SECY. FOR COUNTERTERRORISM POLICY: Well, it was certainly expected, both in the United States and in Europe, that Hamas, which carried out that brutal terrorist attack against Israel that killed more than 1,200 people, that it would continue to try to use terrorism around the world, targeting Jewish, Israeli and other kinds of targets. So, that was not a surprise.

But I have to say, what made all of us sit up and take notice this time around is, we're seeing a plot tactic that was pioneered by Lebanese Hezbollah.

[06:35:10]

In 2017 there were two FBI arrests of Hezbollah operatives here in the United States for trying to do something similar. There were similar plots that Hezbollah, which is also sponsored by Iran, as Hamas is, had tried to do something similar in Nigeria and in Europe. The idea is, you have one group of operatives hide a cache of explosive and weapons, and then a different group of operatives comes along later and this is where you really have a much more dangerous threat than what we're talking about in the U.S.

HILL: So, when -- taking that into account, but then looking at the threat here in the U.S., Christopher Wray saying recently that they had never seen so many elevated threats at the same time. We have the warning, which we just mentioned, that was released earlier this week from the FBI and from DHS. Important to note, though, that while they say there is this heightened threat, they weren't pointing to any specific incidents. How should Americans be reading this, this morning?

WARRICK: Well, so the difference is that what the FBI director is talking about are lone actors, which are single individuals who are motivated by what they read on the internet or by cells of people who think the way they do, to try to carry out individual plots, using guns, cars, other kinds of low-tech items. And so that's a different kind of threat. What I would say for Americans is, go about your holiday plans, enjoy the season, but do be aware of your surroundings. If you seeing some, say something. That actually is good advice.

HILL: And it works as we've seen evidence of. It's interesting, too, that this is not -- in many ways this is not new. So, you know, CNN is reported a 13-year-old in Ohio is facing criminal charges now after allegedly crafting what's being referred to as a detailed plan to carry out a mass shooting at a synagogue in September. The fact that this has existed for so long, that this does predate the terror attacks, and yet we're still hearing the same -- that same advice, right, in terms of being vigilant, in terms of being on the lookout for things.

WARRICK: Yes, and it's because it's good advice. Yes.

HILL: If people are extra concerned, what would you say to them in this environment?

WARRICK: It's important just to - to be aware of things that might seem unusual. In almost all cases where individuals carry out these kinds of violent attacks, somebody knew something was - was off. Something was wrong about the individual. They were behaving strangely. And what really helps is to be able to have the ability to go, either to law enforcement or to somebody who's not law enforcement to say, look, my relative, my son, my friend needs help. Can we try to get them into a program that will lead them away from violence? These kinds of programs are effective, but somebody has to reach out to say, my friend needs help.

HILL: I do want to note too, we have seen this -- incredibly important to point out the rise in anti-Semitic attacks. There's also been an unprecedented spike, according to CAIR, the Council on America and Islamic Relations, in Islamophobic issues, a 216 percent increase over the last year as we're keeping track of all this. It is a frightening trend but important, as you did, to put it into perspective.

Tom, I appreciate the time this morning. Thank you.

WARRICK: You're welcome.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, look at those numbers.

All right, to politics. Nikki Haley could make history with her presidential bid. But you're not going to hear her talk about that a lot. How she's trying to appeal to women on the campaign trail and also not playing up her gender or potentially breaking that glass ceiling.

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[06:42:32]

HARLOW: Well, Nikki Haley hopes to be the woman who breaks through that proverbial glass ceiling and wins the White House in 2024, but you will not hear her talk about that very much on the campaign trail. She rarely talks about how gender influences her politics. But she is trying to join a very exclusive club. Only one woman has ever been a major party's presidential nominee. Hillary Clinton, in 2016, when she ran against Donald Trump.

Our chief national affairs correspondent, Jeff Zeleny, is live in Washington with more.

I'm looking forward to this report because it is interesting. She just doesn't talk about that point as much as you might think.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Poppy.

It certainly is interesting. I mean Nikki Haley is gaining much more attention, but she's focusing on her resume and her life experience. But on the campaign trail this is obvious, there's a sense of growing enthusiasm that several voters told me they see her as the right person for the job who just happens to be a woman.

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NIKKI HALEY (R), 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: That's why I think you need a bad ass woman in charge at the White House.

ZELENY (voice over): Nikki Haley is trying to break the highest glass ceiling in politics, but you won't hear her say so, at least not directly. And that's just fine with many of her admirers.

THALIA FLORAS, NEW HAMPSHIRE VOTER: I think we're past the point of talking about that. She's - she's the candidate. Male or female, she's a strong candidate.

ZELENY (voice over): Thalia Floras has a front row seat to the New Hampshire primary and to Haley's rise, whether or not it's history- making.

FLORAS: I mean it would be great to have a female president, but that's not what it's about.

ZELENY (voice over): As she courts all voters, Haley takes great care to walk a fine line, wielding gender as a humorous shield --

HALEY: I love all the attention, fellas, thank you for that.

ZELENY (voice over): And a defensive sword.

HALEY: They're five-inch heels and I don't wear them unless you can run in them.

ZELENY (voice over): Helene Haggar is blunt about her feelings that it's high time for a woman in the White House.

HELENE HAGGAR, NEW HAMPSHIRE VOTER: It's time to get the testosterone out of the White House and put a woman in there. But a specific woman. Not Kamala Harris, but Nikki Haley.

ZELENY (voice over): At campaign rallies, it's a sentiment echoing from Iowa --

JANE BARTH, IOWA VOTER: She's smart, she's tough, and she's passionate.

ZELENY (voice over): To South Carolina.

DEBRA HUTTON, SOUTH CAROLINA VOTER: She is level headed and speaks to the issues rather than a lot of rhetoric.

ZELENY (voice over): Haley is on a quest to draw suburban women back to the Republican Party after so many fled during the era of Donald Trump. Her support among that key demographic is a leading reason she fares better in a hypothetical contest against President Biden, polls show, even as a strong majority of Republican women still back Trump.

[06:45:01]

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We know her as crooked Hillary, but to Nikki Haley, she's her role model.

ZELENY (voice over): Allies of Ron DeSantis are trying to compare Haley to Hillary Clinton in new TV ads that have been debunked as misleading. Haley is on the air with ads of her own, featuring her husband, a National Guardsman, in uniform.

HALEY: American strength doesn't start wars, it prevents them. That's what I'll do as president.

ZELENY (voice over): As the final chapter of the primary comes into view, Haley now rarely repeats a rallying cry from her announcement earlier this year.

HALEY: May the best woman win.

ZELENY (voice over): She makes clear she's neither campaigning on gender politics, nor identity. A balance voters, like Erin Jorgensen, take note of.

ERIN JORGENSEN, NEW HAMPSHIRE VOTER: Just because you're a woman doesn't mean I'm going to vote for you. You have to be -- you have to be the right person. And I'm just happy that maybe the right person is finally a woman.

ZELENY (voice over): Whether talking about abortion --

HALEY: I don't think the fellas have known how to talk about it properly.

ZELENY (voice over): Or the economy --

HALEY: It hasn't been an easy time for young families at all.

ZELENY (voice over): Haley often infuses her answers with life experiences as a woman and a mother, which draws admiration from her crowds.

VICKI SCHWEGLER (ph): She's my voice. She speaks for me.

ZELENY (voice over): But Vicki Schwegler (ph) makes clear that's not why she intends to give Haley her vote.

SCHWEGLER (ph): I would say it's time for the right resume. We're not looking at somebody, and we're not going to box anybody in because you're a woman, because you're a first generation American. That's not who Republicans are.

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ZELENY (on camera): So, of course, not all Haley supporters are women. There are plenty of men in her audience as well. But not all Republican women are backing Haley. In fact, Donald Trump, of course, has a strong command of this race across all demographic groups, including women.

But spending some time with her this week in New Hampshire and in recent weeks in Iowa and South Carolina, one thing is clear, she asks people in her audiences if they are seeing her for the first time. Nearly half of the audiences raise their hand and many of those are women.

Erica and Poppy.

HARLOW: Interesting. What a good piece. Especially interesting what Erin Jorgensen told you. We're going to talk about it with the team here at the table.

Jeff, thanks very much for the reporting.

ZELENY: You bet.

HILL: And they're all back, so we could start on that.

HARLOW: Let's start on that. HILL: I'm going to hand that to you, yes, because I think it is a great point.

HARLOW: Let's start on that. It was - so this woman who Jeff interviewed, Erin Jorgensen, said, she appreciates the fact that Haley doesn't use gender as a crutch, that's a word she used, and instead is focused on the issues, et cetera.

What do you make of that as a key strategist?

LEE CARTER, STRATEGIC COMMUNICATIONS EXPERT: I think it's really, really smart. I mean there are a huge number of women who don't want to be known as women, they want to be known as leaders. And I think that's what she's done. She says, look, I am a leader, here's what I'm going to do. She uses her gender as part of who she is. So, she - you know, I think some of those jabs were said, like the fellows don't understand, and - and she says, you know, she has a unique perspective because she's one but she's not running because she's a woman. She doesn't want support because she's the first woman. And I think that's really smart. There's a whole generation of us who love that. Who have tried to say, I want you to recognize me as who I am not what I am. And what I am is my gender. Who I am is so much more than that.

HILL: She is resonating. And she's certainly resonating with either the - what we just saw from Jeff's piece. We can't ignore, though, the large elephant in the room and what her chances actually are. How much better are things looking this morning for Nikki Haley?

ERROL LOUIS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: She is a very good politician, first and foremost. And things I think look pretty well for her to the extent that anybody can challenge Trump for the nomination. That's a steep uphill climb. It's almost like a trick shot. You've got to sort of have a lot of things fall all at the same time. But she herself has laid it out, a stronger than expected finish in Iowa, maybe even a stronger finish in New Hampshire as well. And then her home turf in South Carolina. And if she can pull out a victory anywhere among those first three states, she's really on her way.

So, she's - you know, she's positioning herself well if she wants to be on the ticket. She's positioning herself if she wants a future doing something else. But it's still pretty - it's going to be pretty hard.

HILL: Yes.

LOUIS: I mean when -- when the whispers or the discussion about Trump turns into a roar because putting aside all of the legal issues, when you start winning some of those early states, that's going to dominate this channel and every other news cycle, every other news outlet, and it's going to be very hard for her, I think, to sort of pull that off.

The one thing that I think that she does without even emphasizing it, just as Jeff's piece made clear, is that she is the Republican Party's answer to where they have been failing on abortion over this - over this last year. She is their answer. She -

HARLOW: And that's their biggest Achilles heel, no?

CARTER: Yes.

LOUIS: Absolutely. They've - I mean that's why suburban women have been fleeing in every special election that we've seen since the decision came down. She's - she's part of their answer of how they get back in the game.

HARLOW: Do you think we should hear her talk more about, I can win over the left, some of the left? Let me ask you this as a former Obama administration -

SARAH FEINBERG, FORMER OBAMA ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL: I mean I'm not -

HARLOW: A lot of Democrats that I know -

[06:50:00]

FEINBERG: Yes.

HARLOW: Are like, maybe Nikki Haley?

FEINBERG: I'm not sure that's totally - I'm not sure that's totally true she can win over the left.

HARLOW: Not all of it, but some of it. Do you hear that from any of your Democratic friends?

FEINBERG: I do. I hear that - I hear that a little bit. But -- but what is also true is Nikki Haley is trying to say one thing in New Hampshire and another thing in Iowa.

HARLOW: Yes.

FEINBERG: And as this goes along, all of those, like, sort of conservative parts are going to start to come out more and more. There's going to be a flat - you know, there's going to be a bright light on those. And so Democrats and moderates are going to be like, oh, this is - like, she looked good a couple months ago but now this is a bridge too far.

What I think is so interesting about her at this moment is, she's clearly built for this. She loves it. She's having the time of her life. She's got momentum. She's having fun out there. I think she wakes up every morning and is like, I've got three town halls. I am excited. And that is, like, really a huge contrast to Donald Trump. I mean, he is not out there. He's, you know, looking much older. He's moving slower. I mean he's got all kinds of, you know, devils on his back. She's having the time of her life.

HILL: And you think voters feel that?

FEINBERG: I think it's going to become more and more obvious as we go along. I mean she's - she is this young, strong, you know, former governor, you know, basically running down the road in her heels. And he's, like, you know, like, oh, man, I've got 91 indictments on me. I hope people don't notice.

HARLOW: And, by the way, she's young.

FEINBERG: Super young.

HARLOW: So, if not this time, there is a next and maybe a next.

CARTER: Yes, this isn't - yes, this isn't the last time that we're going to see from her.

I think the other thing that we need to keep in mind and what could happen to help this all out is that if other people dropped out of the race. And that's the only way I think we really could see her have the moment that she's looking to have.

HARLOW: Thank you, guys. Lee, Sarah, Errol, appreciate it very much.

HILL: Basketball superstar Draymond Green suspended indefinitely for hitting another player. His coach, Steve Kerr, explains why the suspension, though, may ultimately be a positive.

HARLOW: Also, breaking news, a judge in the United Kingdom has just ruled that Prince Harry was indeed the victim of phone hacking by the tabloid group "The Mirror Group" newspapers. Britain's high court ruling 15 stories published by the newspaper group used unlawful information to publish those stories. That includes private investigators. Prince Harry sued the group saying they used the phone hacking to gather personal information on him for 15 years. He was awarded $180,000 U.S. Dollars, the equivalent in pounds in that verdict. We'll give you a live update ahead.

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[06:57:26]

HILL: Warriors head coach Steve Kerr is really hoping that Draymond Green can get some help and change his ways during this indefinite suspension.

Andy Scholes joining us now with more.

Andy, very positive spin on things there.

ANDY SCHOLES, CNN SPORTS ANCHOR: Well, yes, trying to, Erica and Poppy.

You know, when we see Draymond on an NBA court again, really right now at this point is anybody's guess. For now he's going to remain with the team while he is suspended indefinitely. His Draymond hitting Jusuf Nurkic on Tuesday, that was his fourth violent incident in the past year. And when announcing the suspension, the league office said Draymond would be required to meet certain league and team conditions before he returns to play. And Warriors coach Steve Kerr says that, you know, he hopes this will finally spur change in Draymond.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) STEVE KERR, GOLDEN STATE WARRIORS HEAD COACH: This is not just about, you know, an outburst on the court. This is about his life. This is about someone who I believe in, someone who I have known for a decade who I love for his loyalty, his commitment, his passion, his love for his teammates, his friends, his family. We're trying to help that guy because the one who grabbed Rudy, and choked Rudy, and the one who took a wild flail at Jusuf, the one who punched Jordan last year, that's the guy who has to change.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHOLES: All right, week 15 of the NFL season kicking off last night. And I guess the Raiders decided last weekend, you know what, we're going to save all of our scoring for primetime on Thursday because they scored zero points Sunday against the Vikings, but they put up a franchise record 63 last night. This was just an absolute route.

Aidan O'Connell just throwing TDs all over the field in the first half. He threw four of them. The Raiders were up 42-0 at halftime. That was three short of the NFL record, which was set by Tom Brady and the Patriots back in 2009. And they didn't let up in the second half either. They ran a little trickery here. Jakobi Meyers throwing to his fellow receiver, Dvante Adams. They then added two defensive touchdowns to win 63-21. It was the most points ever given up by the Chargers. And, guys, their head coach, Brandon Staley, was asked after the game if he expects to be the coach today. He said, I don't know.

HILL: Oh.

SCHOLES: Certainly just been a nightmare season for the Chargers. Not what they were expecting.

HARLOW: No, no, you left out the most important part of that story, that that is just what happens when you go up against the Minnesota Vikings, Andy.

SCHOLES: Oh - oh, well, you -- the Vikings scored three points last Sunday.

[07:00:00]

I mean it's not like they were more important (ph).

HARLOW: I'm sorry, what is more? What is more?

SCHOLES: Three is more than zero. That is correct.

HARLOW: Thank you.

SCHOLES: So, yes, great defensive effort.

We'll see how the Vikings do Sunday.