Return to Transcripts main page

CNN This Morning

Haley Makes Significant Gains in New Hampshire; David Petraeus is Interviewed about the Israel-Hamas War; Some Consumer Goods Prices Fall. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired December 18, 2023 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:30:00]

HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR DATA REPORTER: Moderates only make up 17 percent of the vote. So the New Hampshire electorate is far better for her than other nationally, or in Iowa.

But I think here's the real question, is winning New Hampshire merely enough. So, national GOP frontrunners who won Iowa and then lost New Hampshire, which perhaps could happen to Donald Trump, Bob Dole in 1996, George W. Bush in 2000. Both of them won the nomination. So, Nikki Haley has a long hill to climb. She'll have to do something historic. But the fact is, at this point, she's in a better position certainly than she was a month or two months ago.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: For sure.

Thank you, Harry. Appreciate it.

ENTEN: Thank you.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN ANCHOR: And back with us now to discuss, CNN political analyst Astead Herndon.

Make-up-able was the deficit definition that our elite scientific analyst Harry Enten used there in terms of what Nikki Haley is down. And I think it's important to note, she's still down by a lot of points in the state where she's targeting as a kind of must-win to bounce up in and have a real shot here.

So, this is my question. The number of Republican people -- Republicans I heard from yesterday, when the CBS poll came out, saying, see, told you, this is happening, it's moving, this is real. Is it real?

ASTEAD HERNDON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: I mean, it's real to the extent that Nikki Haley is consolidating the moderate share of the Republican base. I think Harry's really right, that the reason we see this movement in New Hampshire is because it's a nice kind of connection between Haley's kind of platform and what we see in terms of a state that has a history of moderation, a history of independence.

But to that - to your kind of point about the broader point here, the same things that make Nikki Haley more acceptable to that slice of the party makes it harder for her to coalesce the rest of the Republican Party. And when we look at Iowa as the state that's going to, obviously, go before, we see the challenges really laid out bare there.

You know, I was at a Nikki Haley debate watch party and you hear people talk about her stances on abortion, or her ability to bring in Democrats and independents to the party, as why she'll be a good general election candidate. In Iowa, those are the same things a lot of those evangelical voters are holding against her. And even the people who don't want Trump are preferring other options, mainly a Ron DeSantis, partially because there's a mismatch between the type of things that make someone electable to moderates and the way that Donald Trump has changed the party, so that a lot of those people view those same qualities as even part of Nikki Haley's problem, as viewing her as somewhat inauthentic.

HARLOW: I think what Harry just showed us about the share of moderate Republicans in New Hampshire is totally fascinating -

MATTINGLY: Yes.

HARLOW: Because it outweighs nationally. It certainly outweighs Iowa. I was thinking to back to '92 and Clinton's comeback kid moment. He was at the lowest point of his campaign going into New Hampshire.

MATTINGLY: Yes.

HARLOW: Haley goes in, perhaps at the highest point of her campaign, but folks like Chris Christie, they also need that boost. Anything that can be analogous from then to now? I mean so much is different in the Republican Party now and Trump makes it all different, but --

HERNDON: Yes. Yes. You know, when you look at the landscape of New Hampshire, it looks great for the Nikki Haleys and Chris Christie, to the extent that there's a place you can cobble together a coalition to match Trump. The question would be is, what happens next, right, because then you turn to Nevada, then you turn to South Carolina, and those are places that still have kind of Donald Trump written all over for it.

So, you know, New Hampshire has to be a starting point, but it not only -- but it can - but it can't just be that because where we -- there's a lot of a higher ceiling for Donald Trump when we look at those kind of other states and where it's going. And you really -- it's really difficult to see that for the Haleys of the world.

I mean when the kind of - when Americans for Prosperity, the kind of Koch unit comes and backs her on this front, that gives her a much- needed boost for the race in the short-term. But those are the exact kind of people who a lot of the grassroots members of the Republican Party have oriented to revolt against. And so the things that are bringing her kind of closer to doing well in New Hampshire make it harder for her to coalesce the rest of the party.

HARLOW: Interesting.

MATTINGLY: She's the former governor of South Carolina.

HERNDEN: Yes,

MATTINGLY: She's the former governor of South Carolina. And if you look at the governor of South Carolina, who backs Donald Trump -

HERNDEN: Yes.

MATTINGLY: Or him at the Clemson, South Carolina, game, can she win South Carolina because that's got to be - that's part of it?

HERNDEN: Yes, I -

MATTINGLY: The theory of the case has her winning South Carolina.

HERNDON: Earlier this year I was at the Silver Elephant Dinner, their like main kind of GOP fundraising event in South Carolina.

MATTINGLY: Yes.

HERNDON: And it was incredible to the extent that in that state she was absent for those - for the people there. Or even Tim Scott, someone else who was in the race at the time, was completely absent for those folks. They had kind of owned the fact that the party had changed to such a degree that even Nikki Haley, a governor who has like good ties in the state, is not reflective of where the new members of Congress are, are not reflective of the new leaders of the party. And this is how Donald Trump has really taken over Republicans.

I think it's really underrated fact of his 2024 campaign. There are loyalists and kind of state party positions. The party has changed to such a degree to 2016, where he's not the outsider against the establishment, he is part of the establishment too, and that's something that Nikki Haley has to overcome.

HARLOW: Astead, thank you. Always -

HERNDON: Thank you.

MATTINGLY: Thanks, buddy.

HARLOW: So many good points, as always. Appreciate it.

Meanwhile, Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin is in Tel Aviv right now meeting with Israeli officials, trying to get more clarity about their goals and milestones as his war with Hamas continues. You see him there being greeted on the tarmac. The civilian death toll in Gaza climbing and Israel is facing more international pressure to resume truce talks. General David Petraeus is with us on all of it, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:38:51]

HARLOW: Welcome back. Right now, Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin is in Israel. This is his

second visit to the country since the terror attack on October 7th. Secretary Austin is meeting with Israeli officials. He is expected to push them to define milestones clearly in this war against Hamas as the United States urges Israel to do a lot more to limit civilian casualties. A senior defense official tells CNN that Austin wants a, quote, "very clear" articulation of Israel's war effort and strategic objectives.

Joining us now, retired four-star general, former CIA director, General David Petraeus.

Thank you so much for being with us, especially at a moment like this.

As you see Secretary Austin in Israel for these meetings, we know he wants to find milestones, a sense of what does victory mean to you, and, by the way, how are you going to get there and start really limiting these civilian casualties in Gaza. What does success for his trip look like?

GEN. DAVID PETRAEUS, U.S. ARMY (RET.): Well, it would be to get answers to the questions that you just raised. This is clearly a very, very tough fight. It's an incredibly difficult battlefield. The most fiendishly difficult context imaginable.

[08:40:01]

The Israelis have made progress. Clearly there needs to be greater attention to minimizing civilian loss. And there also have to be answers to what will the day after look like. Who is going to administer Gaza? What is the vision for the Palestinian people after Hamas is gone? And above all, how do you keep Hamas from reconstituting if there is not some degree of occupation? Noting that no one wants to see Israel re-occupy, including the Israelis. But I'm at a loss as to how you keep Hamas down, if they can destroy it. And there's still a lot of tough fighting to achieve that particular objective.

HARLOW: We just saw him there with his Israeli counterpart, Yoav Gallant, the defense minister.

You know better than anyone that you have to answer the question, as you rightly asked in Iraq in 2003, tell me how this ends. As you look at what is going on, and Austin comes in here having said a couple of weeks ago, warning Israel, look, you could, you know, replace a tactical victory with a strategic defeat. Is there any clarity from the Israeli government on how this ends?

PETRAEUS: Look, I think this is still under enormous discussion. I should just note, by the way, then General Austin knows very much about this. He was the second three-star level commander during the surge, which I was privileged to command in Iraq. He knows what this will look like. And, of course, he was ultimately the multinational force Iraq commander. The final one there.

HARLOW: Right. PETRAEUS: He knows that there are a lot of more difficult fighting to go. In my view, they have to clear and hold the entire territory if they're to achieve the overall objective of destroying Hamas and dismantling the political wing. I'm actually a bit concerned that we might pressure them to stop some of the operations and replace what is going on now with more counterterrorist kinds of operations, which really will not achieve the overall objective. Certainly, again, there has to be greater attention to civilian loss of life. That's his point about, in a sense, winning a tactical victory, but losing the strategic war. And that is imperative, without question. And I'm sure that he will re-emphasize that many times during his conversations with Israeli leaders today.

HARLOW: Our colleague, Katie Bo Lillis, just confirmed reporting that the CIA director, Bill Burns, is set to meet with the Qatari prime minister today. They're really trying to get Hamas and Israel back to the table to restart these negotiations, to get the rest of those hostages out, especially, General, after the IDF mistakenly killed three Israeli hostages on Friday.

Do you believe -- I mean Hamas has said, we need a total cease-fire if we're going to come back to the table and release the hostages. How does that end?

PETRAEUS: Well, I don't think a cease-fire can be sustained. Certainly there should be discussions to try to get more of the hostages out, without question. And, look, these kinds of mistakes happen on a battlefield, especially if you have soldiers that may or may not be trained on the kind of operations that are being carried out. A hostage rescue situation is very, very sensitive and challenging. And we have mistakes like this over the years in Iraq and Afghanistan, with our special mission units. So again --

HARLOW: But they were waving a white flag according to the IDF.

PETRAEUS: Yes, again, without knowing the full scenario, how did they enter the room, did they expect enemy, what was the situation leading up to it, it's difficult to second guess or to grade this.

But again, these are really tough missions against an enemy who doesn't wear a uniform, uses civilians as human shields, is holding hostages, has tunnels, and I suspect over time is going to start blowing themselves up to take the Israelis with them as well. We've only seen, I think, one or two documented suicide attacks so far.

So, again, the most difficult context imaginable, and yet they have not yet, by any means, destroyed Hamas. The major leaders are still at large. They're still pursuing them. And at the end of the day, I think, again, there's going to have to be the clearance of the entire territory, but they have to figure out how to get these civilians back into their houses while this goes on so they don't just keep pushing them all around the territory at the same time.

HARLOW: What is the significance of -- and I'm not going to use a technical term here, the mess in the Red Sea right now? I mean we just learned this morning that BP is basically halting all their operations in the Red Sea. There have been attack after attack after attack from Iran-backed rebels on U.S. assets there. The USS Carney, et cetera. What is the bigger picture implication of that, especially with all of this movement stopped in the Red Sea?

PETRAEUS: Well, this is one of the most important arteries in the world when it comes to maritime shipping. If you have to go all the way around, say, Africa or something like that, it obviously adds a considerable amount of time and expense. So, this actually will have a real impact on the global economy, which so far, by the way, has not really been seen, other than the initial spike in the price of crude oil at the outset, when everyone waited to see whether Iran might interdict shipping coming out of the Gulf.

[08:45:07]

That has not taken place. Crude oil prices have actually gone down below where they were at the start of this campaign. But now you may see some impact as again global shipping is re-routed, halted, and so forth.

So, this is something, I think, that the - the U.S. and other forces are going to have to take more action to - to, first of all, to destroy some of these elements, and then to deter further such attacks so they can get that artery reopened.

HARLOW: Well, just, finally, what would that action look like? They've already -- I think the Carney shot down 14 of these drones over the weekend. What does further action look like, without escalating things, right?

PETRAEUS: Preemptive action. Again, you're going to have to identify where these are being launched from and start taking them out, along with the launch teams. I mean, again, we've faced this kind of threat in the past. We faced it both in the war zones and then in some of these shipping lanes. And, ultimately, it will be that, I think, they're going to have to go to the source of these attacks.

HARLOW: A number of them coming from Houthi rebels in Yemen.

General Petraeus, always good to have you. Thank you, again.

PETRAEUS: Good to be with you, Poppy. Thank you.

MATTINGLY: Well, right now, a manhunt is underway for a Texas inmate who escaped prison yesterday. The latest in the search, ahead.

HARLOW: Also, time is running out if you still have holiday shopping to do. I feel like this is a message for me. Good news, though, cooling inflation should bring down maybe some of the costs of those gifts.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:50:53]

MATTINGLY: Welcome back. Here are "5 Things" to know this Monday, December 18th.

Soon we are expecting to hear from Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin and Israeli officials. Austin is in Tel Aviv right now. We're told he's pressing Israel to define the specific milestones for their operation.

HARLOW: Later today Texas Governor Greg Abbott will sign a controversial border bill to make it a state crime to enter Texas illegally. It would also give local law enforcement the power to arrest and order migrants to leave their county. Civil rights groups warn that this law will lead to radical profiling and racial profiling of Latinas.

MATTINGLY: Right now a manhunt is underway for a Texas inmate who escaped prison yesterday. Police say 39-year-old Robert Yancy Jr. is serving a life sentence without parole for sexual abuse of a child. Officials say, if you see him, don't approach him, immediately contact law enforcement.

Also, more than 58 million Americans are under flood watch from North Carolina to Maine. New England will get the heaviest rains and strongest winds today.

HARLOW: And trailblazing Supreme Court Justice Sandra Day O'Connor will lie in repose at the Supreme Court this morning. She died earlier this month. And she will be remembered in a private ceremony today before members of the public will come to pay their respects.

MATTINGLY: That's "5 Things" to know for this morning. Don't forget to download the "5 Things" podcast every morning wherever you get your podcasts.

HARLOW: You have just one week left for your last-minute Christmas shopping -

MATTINGLY: Oh.

HARLOW: But you may notices -- I feel like Chelsea has got this covered, Phil.

MATTINGLY: Yes, that's right. Yes, she's got it.

HARLOW: OK. Have -- prices have been going down for some things. Inflation is getting a little bit better.

CNN business reporter Nathaniel Meyersohn is at the magic wall will more.

Good morning.

NATHANIEL MEYERSOHN, CNN CONSUMER REPORTER: Good morning.

HARLOW: What are you looking at?

MEYERSOHN: So, yes. So - so some good news for last minute holiday shopping procrastinators, especially toys. Toys are down 3 percent this year from a year ago. TVs down 10 percent. Appliances down 11 percent. Some of the physical goods that we stocked up on early in the pandemic, those prices have started to come down. Supply chains, which were completely gummed up a couple years ago, they've normalized. So, the physical goods coming down a little bit.

MATTINGLY: So some things coming down. Some being, I think, the operative word there. Some things aren't. What's not?

MEYERSOHN: Some things are not, Phil. So, we talk a lot about, why are families feeling so frustrated with the economy right now. They're - you're still going to be paying more than you were last year, about $200 more. $636 more than you were two years ago just for the average physical goods and services.

HARLOW: A year or a month?

MEYERSOHN: In November from a year ago.

HARLOW: OK.

MEYERSOHN: So, $630 more for everyday goods according to Moody's.

And here are some of the places where we're still seeing prices go up. Groceries. Now this is the big one for families. Groceries still up 2 percent. About 20 percent for the last couple years. Sporting goods tickets. I'm not going to be able to go see a Knicks game. I'm not sure. It's up 16 percent. Meals up 5 percent.

HARLOW: Where are people shopping?

MEYERSOHN: It's kind of continuation of the trends we've seen the last couple of years. People shopping online. Online sales up 11 percent in November from a year ago. Department stores. People not going to Macy's as much. Kohl's. We saw a couple weeks ago, Macy's was offered to go private.

HARLOW: Yes.

MEYERSOHN: So, shopping in Amazon, not as much in department stores, furniture stores.

MATTINGLY: All right, Nathaniel Meyersohn, I bet you could go to a Jets game, though. Anybody can afford that.

MEYERSOHN: Those will be chap. Those will be cheap.

HARLOW: Oh, that was so cold, Mattingly.

MATTINGLY: It's true. Thanks, buddy, we appreciate it.

HARLOW: A lot of our team are Jets fans.

MATTINGLY: Well, Donald Trump is escalating his anti-immigration pro- authoritarian rhetoric from over the weekend and defended the January 6th rioters as, quote, hostages. What it means for the race ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:58:39]

HARLOW: It's time for the "Morning Moment." Usually this segment is reserved for an inspiring hero, a changemaker, a person or a story that will make you feel good. And indeed, today, it is that. Just a little closer to home for us here at CNN THIS MORNING because this weekend everybody's favorite Buckeye, Ohioan, and second favorite morning news anchor, second, turning 40. Happy birthday, Mattingly.

MATTINGLY: Thank you.

HARLOW: He is not just the co-anchor of our show. He means a lot to our team here at CNN.

MATTINGLY: A lot.

HARLOW: Since he joined us, Phil has been a constant source of joy - you're looking at images over the years, by the way - joy for all of us, for me on set, for our whole staff. There was, of course, the time he spilled his coffee everywhere on air, earning him an esteemed title -

MATTINGLY: Oh, good, we're going to show it.

HARLOW: Spill Mattingly.

MATTINGLY: That was a - that was a great moment for me.

HARLOW: Still got the job, bud.

MATTINGLY: Yes.

HARLOW: The time he showed up to work on Halloween in a Scooby-doo onesie. That actually happened. But apparently he owns more than one onesie, thank you for that, Chelsea. And all the moments in between when your tireless work ethic and your political insight and your reading the crosstabs of all the polls make us better journalists. How you pull it off with four kids at home is still a mystery to us, not to be because I know it's your beautiful wife Chelsea.

So, happy birthday, Phil. We have something for you. From Andrew and me. This is for your birthday, Mattingly.

[09:00:01]

MATTINGLY: Oh, that's really nice. Didn't we -- this was really nice and delightful until the University of Michigan cupcake.

HARLOW: Yes.

MATTINGLY: Andrew - Andrew, I feel, Judas is what I will call Andre from here on out, of all people.

HARLOW: It was actually my idea. Don't blame Andrew.

And here's some love from the viewers at home.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KIDS: Happy birthday, Dad. We love you so much.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: I mean, could they be any cuter.

MATTINGLY: That's pretty cool. That's pretty cool.

HARLOW: But here's your actual birthday present.

MATTINGLY: Oh, wow, now we're talking. An Ohio State cake.

HARLOW: I worked all weekend to make it. But I was freaking out this morning because I thought, did he go to Ohio State or the other Ohio? Am I right? I know.

MATTINGLY: It's very kind.

We've got to go. I appreciate it, guys,

Brooke, T.J., Carter, Paige, I love you guys. Thank you,

"CNN NEWS CENTRAL" starts right now.