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Biden Heads into 2024 with Strong Economy; Priests Can Offer Blessings to Same-Sex Couples; David Frum is Interviewed about GOP's Abandoning Ukraine; Seahawks Rally Late to Stun Eagles. Aired 6:30-7a ET

Aired December 19, 2023 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[06:30:00]

LEAH WRIGHT RIGUEUR, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST AND HISTORIAN: Really the strongest card that they have and they absolutely should play it.

However, the real question of the 2024 election is going to be the economy. Barring anything, you know, catastrophic, like another pandemic or something like that.

But the problem is that the Biden campaign really can't take credit for the economy right now. So, let me explain how that works. The economy, by all accounts, the market is saying that the economy is coming back, it's stronger, it's looking better than ever, but the reality is that the people are not making the connection between the market doing well and how they are experiencing the market in their day to day lives. So, inflation is still hitting the audiences that Biden really needs to come together, the coalitions that he needs to support him in order to win this race. Battleground states, Latinos, black voters, Asian voters all report that they are deeply unhappy with the state of the economy. This in despite - this despite what the actual numbers look like.

So, I think part of what the Biden campaign has to do is figure out how to, yes, run with the strongest thing that they have, but how do they begin to tell a story that says, we are responsible for this economy but also you should be feeling something, and these are the things that you should be feeling positively in your pockets, otherwise they are going to be dealing with really a defeated coalition and a coalition that is really still feeling the hurt of these kind of lingering questions of inequality and inflation and high rents.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN ANCHOR: Errol, can we dig more into that because, to Leah's great point, you look at the top line numbers, inflation is at 3.1 percent, down from 9.1 percent, unemployment rate, 3.7 percent. When the Fed started raising rates, it said it would have to go to 4.5, 5, something along those lines. The Fed probably done hiking interest rates. Talking about three cuts next year. Financial markets at or near all-time highs. I'm old enough to remember when a recession was a certainty in 2023 and we've got, what, 11, 12 days left. Don't think it's going to happen. And yet, to Leah's point, what are they missing? What's not connecting right now. ERROL LOUIS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: That's right. Well, I mean,

look, what -- what's not connecting is the people's perception, their everyday life. I mean we've talked about this a lot when it comes to inflation. Yes, it's not getting higher, but the prices haven't come down per se. So, the rate comes down but the prices stay high. And so people are still sort of feeling that pinch. People still have a lot of questions as we're going through this enormous transition.

I mean, look, the pandemic and the transformation of the economy to sort of work from home for a lot of different professions that went away and some new ones that came online. The other big transition, of course, is we're trying to move toward renewables. And so there are a lot of new jobs there but there were a lot of old jobs that went away. So, there's a lot of uncertainty. There's a lot of turmoil. I think that's what people are expressing when they're talking to the pollsters.

The Biden team, of course, has to try and take credit for what's good and also ask people to be patient with what's bad. And that's the part I think that they're missing.

I mean, listen, we saw Bill Clinton do this. You know, he convinced people to give him a second term, among other things, by saying, I will fight until the last dog dies. I'm on your side. We're going in the right direction. It's not fast enough, but stick with me, we're going to get there. I don't hear that messaging coming from this campaign.

JOHN AVLON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST AND ANCHOR: I - and patience is never the strongest suit of the American voter.

I do think that if there are rate cuts and if they can start messaging more about middle class and start -- things like start coming online about infrastructure and the CHIPS Act, that people can feel that might make a difference.

But the other issue, in addition to abortion and the economy, is, I think, democracy. This was the argument that Biden made in the midterms in 2022. A lot of people dismissed it, said there was a red wave, it was a bad idea. It wasn't. And I think especially campaigning against Donald Trump, that could have resonance as well. So, it's not one issue. And I agree they've got to get better about messaging and the reality of the economy for middle class folks in particular. But I think it's also the issue of defending democracy at home and abroad.

MATTINGLY: And some of us are just like talking like you're awesome. Like, everybody looks at Trump and they're like, he was amazing on x, y and z. OK, do you remember 2020? Like, Clinton lost New Hampshire when he said last dog dies.

AVLON: That's right.

MATTINGLY: Just say you're awesome and everybody -

AVLON: But he was the comeback kid because (INAUDIBLE).

MATTINGLY: It's all about vibes. It's all about vibes.

Yes, Errol, Leah, John, thanks, guys, appreciate it.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Pope Francis breaking with tradition, allowing priests to bless same-sex couples. This is a big deal. We're going to talk about the progress.

MATTINGLY: And the White House warning that U.S. funding for Ukraine could run out by the end of this month. What this could mean on the battlefield against Russia. We'll have more, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:38:02]

MATTINGLY: It's a seismic shift for the global LGBTQ community. Pope Francis will allow Roman Catholic priests to bless same-sex couples.

HARLOW: A new document states that these blessings can happen as long as they are not part of a regular church ritual at the same time or the same as a civil union. It caps a decade of the pope slowly shifting the church's stance on this.

This is what he told a reporter in 2013 about gay clergy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

POPE FRANCIS (through translator): If a person is gay and accepts the Lord and has goodwill, who am I to judge?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: We'll all remember him saying "who am I to judge?"

MATTINGLY: Yes.

HARLOW: Joining us now is Katie McGrady. She hosts a show on SirusXM, "The Catholic Channel."

Katie, thanks very much for being with us.

I was really struck by the language of this declaration. Let me just read part of it for people. Quote, "the request for a blessing expresses and nurtures openness to the transcendents, mercy and closeness to God and a thousand concrete circumstances of light, which is no small thing in the world in which we live. It is a seed of the Holy Spirit that must be nurtured, not hindered."

Those words mean so much for so many people in this country and around the world.

KATEI MCGRADY, HOST ON SIRUSXM'S "THE CATHOLIC CHANNEL": Yes. Yes, I agree. Good morning. I think what the holy father is doing, and as he has done for the past ten years of his pontificate, is remind us that the church is a home and that we are invited to be in this home. And I think yesterday a lot of interpretation was done around, well, this is a massive shift. It's not a doctrinal change. We need to make that perfectly clear. It is an invitation to individuals to recognize the church wants to welcome you to God's love and mercy. And the clarifications within the document should be read, should be looked at very closely.

HARLOW: Yes.

MCGRADY: The reaffirmation of what the catholic church teaches about marriage is there. But this was also a reminder that human dignity is important and the dignity of a person who seeks out God's mercy is not one that we should ignore and that a blessing is not an affirmation, a blessing is a supplication.

[06:40:07]

A supplication for God's goodness.

MATTINGLY: Katie, you make a really critical point. And I think when you looked at the reactions yesterday, it seemed like a lot of the most hyperbolic didn't actually read what was - what was said here.

MCGRADY: Yes.

MATTINGLY: And I think, to some degree, and I don't always say this when it comes to what the pope is saying or what the pope wants, the best read on it came from the U.S. Conference of Bishops.

MCGRADY: Yes.

MATTINGLY: Which had a very specific -- did not push back and oftentimes they get into conflict to some degree with the pope. And I'm just intrigued why you think that is, that the immediate snap reaction to some degree was to make it much more than it was.

MCGRADY: I mean, welcome to the church in 2023. People will read what they want to read and ignore what they want to ignore and look through the lens of their pre-conceived notions. The holy father speaks in a very Latin American way, which is not in the sometimes linear, well, it's this or it's that, that some people want. And so if you are a fan of the holy father, then this said what you wanted it to say. And if you are not, then it said what you wanted it to say on the other side.

And I think the thing that I kept saying among my friends and I kept saying on my show was, are we - are we being too kerfuffley here? Are we looking at something and trying to turn it into a moment when instead this was an opportunity for us to remember, especially in the third week of Advent, that we are called to show people the mercy of God. And we are called to invite people into an encounter with the Lord.

Poppy, you started with that beautiful acknowledgment of, OK, this is what a blessing is.

HARLOW: Yes.

MCGRADY: People will seek out a priest for a blessing when they're traveling or when they're sick or when they want an object blessed. A blessing is not the church saying, we approve. The church is saying, this is an opportunity for us to encounter the Lord.

And for an LGBTQ person to hear that yesterday, I hope that they saw that this was the church saying, you are loved. You are seen. Everyone wants to know that their dignity is seen and acknowledged. For the person who looks at this and says, this was a change of doctrine, well, it wasn't. And you just have to go read the document very clearly to see that.

HARLOW: I'm so glad you said the word. I kept thinking "seen." This is about being seen for who they are. And there is no -- as it notes here, no liturgical (ph) right that could be confused with the sacrament of marriage. That's a really important distinction that I think, to Phil's point, some people just - just read past.

But this also comes after late October when there was another document that made it clear that transgender people can be baptized and serve as godparents.

So, my question is here the trend of what we're seeing.

MCGRADY: I think the trend is dignity. I think the trend is the church and the holy father reminding people that - todos (ph), todos (ph), todos (ph). He said this at World Youth Day in the summer. All should come to holy mother church and recognize this as home.

Just last week a document was released that doesn't really make the news about single mothers receiving holy communion. And I saw it because it's my job to see stuff like that. And I was like, wait, that was a problem? People needed to be reminded that a single mother can go to communion? But in some places, yes, that needed to be reminded.

And so I think what the - the DDR, this is the document from the decastry (ph) that makes these declarations concerning our faith, wants to ensure that people remember. That's the progression here. People remember the church is not a place where only the holy and the prized can sit, but that it is a place where all are welcome to come and understand God's love for them. And I would challenge people to go read that document, to go read what the DDF is saying, to go to church this coming weekend and experience that for themselves.

HARLOW: Katie McGrady, thank you very much for joining us and Merry Christmas.

MCGRADY: Thank you, guys. Merry Christmas. Thanks, guys.

MATTINGLY: Well, Rudy Giuliani is sued again over the 2020 election lies that two women say ruined their lives. Why Ruby Freeman and Sheye Moss are taking new legal action. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:47:57]

Time is running out for the White House and the Senate to try to secure additional aid for Ukraine this year. The White House warning that U.S. funding for the war-torn country is set to run out at the end of the month. Some analysts have said that could have obvious global ramifications and shake the foundation of U.S. global leadership on this front.

MATTINGLY: An aid package, since it was introduced in October, has stalled on Capitol Hill. It would have provided billions of dollars in additional funding to the country in its war effort, but Republicans are demanding concessions from the Biden administration on immigration policy and border security. Our next guest explores what's behind what's looking like the GOP willingness to abandon Ukraine in a new piece for "The Atlantic" titled "They Do It for Trump."

Joining us, staff writer for "The Atlantic," David Frum.

David, it's a fascinating piece. And I guess we should start with, do you think that's -- the piece explains this, but since we have you, this is entirely because of Trump. You see the public opinion has started to shift on this. It's not just in isolation with House Republicans or some Senate Republicans, you think this is all tied to Trump consolidating support for 2024?

DAVID FRUM, STAFF WRITER, "THE ATLANTIC": Look, there are a handful of Republicans in the House and maybe one or two in the Senate who genuinely sympathize with the Russian case against Ukraine. But most of them couldn't care less one way or another. They do it for Trump.

And you see that with this argument about -- that says, we can't help Ukraine unless we get concessions on immigration. Now, I don't think you've ever heard a Republican member of the House say, we can't have a tax cut unless we get concessions on immigration. We can't send out Social Security checks unless we have a concession on immigration.

When you hold - when you trade, it's because there's something you don't want to do and you give it up for something that you care about more. They don't want to help Ukraine. Why not? Because a year ago they all did. What has changed? And the explanations you get, as I go through in the article, make no sense.

Mike Johnson, the current speaker of the House, in 2020 -- last year said, I can't help Ukraine unless the baby food crisis is solved. Well, who remembers now the baby food crisis? It's long gone. I can't - I can't help Ukraine because gas prices are so high.

[06:50:02]

So, they've come down by more than 50 percent, or about 50 percent. That excuse is gone.

What this is about is they have intuited, except for the handful who are genuinely anti-Ukraine, they have intuited Trump hates Ukraine. If you want to show that you're loyal to Trump, you also should hate Ukraine.

HARLOW: You bring back to the fore, a term you coined back in 2012, under-news. FRUM: Yes.

HARLOW: And you talk about this as a current that runs beneath all of it. Explain what it is to people and the through line here.

FRUM: Well, if you watch a lot of Fox News, you often don't understand what the hosts are talking about. I coined this term in 2012 where they would make a lot of jokes on Fox News about Obama being gay for socialism. Now, that joke was only funny if you also took part in all of the discussion groups off Fox News where it was suggested that President Obama was gay and that Michelle Obama, his beloved wife, was actually a man. And it was crazy, of course, but it was part of the context with which you enjoyed the program.

Now, if you watch Fox News programming on Ukraine today, again, a lot of it won't make sense unless you're taking part in those off air discussion groups where they're suggesting a vast conspiracy that originated in Ukraine that was aimed at Donald Trump and that Donald Trump was heroically standing against. And it's that complex of news plus under-news that explains why Republicans who don't care about Ukraine, or didn't used to, one way or the other, are suddenly all with Trump, for Russia, against Ukraine.

MATTINGLY: Is this just how foreign policy and the Republican Party is now? There's constantly talk of, will the pendulum swing back? There are still people like Mitch McConnell, who has been the most forceful defender of this funding. Is this the center now for the Republican Party?

FRUM: Well, look, I remain a registered Republican. I worked in the George W. Bush administration. I wrote some speeches for him.

MATTINGLY: Right.

FRUM: So, I -- my Republican Party is one that defends America's allies. And there are many Republicans who feel the same way.

But what I sadly notice in the Senate is the Republicans who feel patriotically about this issue are in their 70s and 80s and the Republicans who align with Trump or worse are in their 40s and 50s or 30s in some cases. So, there is a generational transition where Republicans who accepted and respected and upheld international obligations, they're going out. And Republicans who don't, they're coming in.

HARLOW: Do you really think that we're not going to see Ukraine funding? I'm not just talking about this year. I'm talking about in the next six months.

FRUM: Look, there may be a rabbit pulled out of the hat. I haven't given up hope. It may even happen in the next few hours. That's not impossible, as I say in the article. But if this aid stops, you can't turn a war off and turn the war on again later. There's a pipeline here. And also, there are people who are fighting heroically for their homes against this horrific invader. How do they keep up their spirits if their most important supporter betrays them in order to placate this -- this politician who has got a vendetta against Ukraine and this strange sinister relationship with Vladimir Putin. And that person with the strange, sinister relationship to Vladimir Putin might be the next president of the United States.

HARLOW: The piece is, "They Do It for Trump: Behind the GOP's Shifting Excuses for Abandoning Ukraine."

David Frum, thank you.

FRUM: Thank you.

MATTINGLY: Well, this morning, crossing illegally into Texas could land migrants in prison for up to 20 years. How the new law could shape the immigration debate and the possible legal challenges that lie ahead.

HARLOW: And this morning, politicians, friends and family members will honor a trailblazer, Supreme Court Justice Sandra Day O'Connor. CNN will have special coverage of her funeral. That begins at 10:45 a.m. Eastern Time.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:57:59]

HARLOW: If you went to bed early, I feel like that's speaking to us, you missed a fantastic finish between the Seahawks and the Eagles on "Monday Night Football."

MATTINGLY: Carolyn Manno joins us with more about why Jake Tapper is depressed this morning.

What happened?

CAROLYN MANNO, CNN SPORTS CORRESPONDENT: And Elie Honig. And every other Eagle's fan that works on this program.

MATTINGLY: I'm OK with that.

MANNO: We're all early risers, but this one's definitely worth staying up late for because it has been a crazy couple of weeks for Seattle's backup quarterback Drew Lock. He wasn't sure if he was going to start his second consecutive game until right before kickoff when he got to the stadium. The team started Geno Smith, activated shortly before game time. He missed last week.

So, this was wild. And it turns out that Lock was so key for the Seahawks last night, some late-game heroics for the quarterback here, down by four, with less than two minutes to play, he marched his team down field on an 11 play, 92-yard drive that ended with this touchdown by the rookie Jaxon Smith-Njigba. So that 29-yard strike gave Seattle their first lead of this game.

And then the Eagles got the ball back with 28 seconds left. But the Seahawks defense coming up big. Julian Love making his second interception of the fourth quarter, somehow managing to keep both feet in bounds to steal this stunning 20-17 win, keeping Seattle's playoff hopes alive. And after the game, Lock reflected on a very special night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DREW LOCK, SEATTLE SEAHAWKS QUARTERBACK: Amazing won't do it justice. But amazing also doesn't do justice with the o-line, what DK did on that catch, what the receivers did, what Ken Walker, Zach Charbonnet did all game long, the tight ends, man. It takes a special group to rally around a guy that, you know, has come into his second game of the year, right? Used to the same thing all year long, same cadence, same spin on the ball, everything. For a team like that, not just the offense, the defense, to rally around me tonight, man, that was - that was amazing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MANNO: You can hear the emotion there. It's nice to hear athlete be a little bit vulnerable. A backup quarterback is a good job to have normally. Most people would take it.

MATTINGLY: Yes.

MANNO: But when the pressure's on to perform, it's a lot of pressure.

MATTINGLY: Former first-round pick, was supposed to be a starter, now second chance in his career. Jaxon Smith-Njigba went to -

MANNO: Ohio State.

MATTINGLY: Ohio State.

MANNO: It's OK, Poppy. It's OK.

[07:00:01]

MATTINGLY: We were talking about it all morning long.

HARLOW: Which - which Ohio?

MATTINGLY: Oh, come on.

HARLOW: Thanks, Carolyn.

MATTINGLY: Carolyn Manno, thanks so much.

HARLOW: CNN THIS MORNING continues right now.