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CNN This Morning

Voters Thoughts on Border Security and Immigration; Will Hurd is Interviewed about Immigration Rhetoric; Volcano Erupts in Iceland; Funder for Sandra Day O'Connor Today. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired December 19, 2023 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[08:32:22]

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN ANCHOR: Donald Trump is back on the stump in Iowa tonight for a rally after several rallies where he's leaned on extreme anti-immigrant rhetoric. Will that language affect his standing with voters, particularly how they feel about the need for increased border security. We're going to ask someone who would know. CNN's senior data reporter Harry Enten joins us now.

So, Harry, how do Americans feel about illegal immigration and border security at this point?

HARRY ENTEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, so, you know, I think we have this idea that this is just a play for the base. Yes, maybe, but it's more than that. So, take a look at this poll from Marquette University Law School. Want increased efforts to stop illegal immigration at the southern border. Look, you see here, 96 percent of Republican voters want that. But it's 78 percent of all voters. And even among Hispanic voters it's 71 percent.

Now, let's take a look more broadly, right? Let's take a look at, do a better job on border security and immigration. In 2020 we basically saw a dead heat between Joe Biden and Donald Trump, Biden up by a point, but that is well within the margin of error. Look at the change that we have seen over the past three years. Donald Trump has opened up a 23-point lead on this issue. Whatever he has been doing or whatever folks have been seeing along the border has definitely impacted their views. And at this particular point, this is an issue that Donald Trump wants to plan, not just in the Republican primary, but in the general election as well.

MATTINGLY: How about Hispanic voters?

ENTEN: Yes, so I think there's this idea, OK, maybe this type of rhetoric will hurt among Hispanic voters. And take a look here of the Hispanic voters, Biden versus Trump, in a general election matchup. Biden won these voters in 2020 by a large margin, 26 points. Look at where we are now. Biden still leads, but that margin has shrunk to just six percentage points.

And, of course, in 2020, it was one of the best performances for a Republican candidate amongst Hispanic voters in a generation, since George W. Bush in 2004. So, we've seen an increasing trend towards Trump.

And you might be asking yourself, OK, what about this rhetoric from Donald Trump? Will this hurt him among Hispanic voters? But take a look here, better job on border security and immigration among Hispanic voters, check this out, the plurality of Hispanic voters actually prefer Donald Trump on this issue, 42 percent to 30 percent.

So, look, this rhetoric, I think a lot of people don't like it, but the fact is, when it comes to border security and immigration, a lot of folks are liking what Donald Trump is saying, especially compared to Joe Biden.

MATTINGLY: Hispanic voters aren't single issue, they aren't monolithic. It's an important thing for everybody to remember.

Harry Enten, thanks, buddy.

ENTEN: Thanks, buddy.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Joining us now is Will Hurd. He is a former Republican congressman from Texas who for six years represented a district that spanned one-third of the U.S.-Mexico border, he's a former Republican presidential candidate and joins me now.

Good morning, Congressman. It's great to have you.

Let's just remind people some of what Trump has said, the rhetoric that Harry was just talking about.

[08:35:06]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT AND 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: They're poisoning the blood of our country. That's what they've done.

We will root out the communists, Marxists, fascists and the radical left thugs that live like vermin within the confines of our country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Governor DeSantis, your fellow Republican who's running for president, calls Trump's rhetoric on this stuff, a, quote, "tactical mistake." What do you call it?

WILL HURD (R), FORMER TEXAS CONGRESSMAN: Well, I call it wrong and terrible and a dog whistle to racists and bad people.

But here's the reality, Joe Biden's positions on border security are so bad that a lot of voters are going to ignore this rhetoric because they want something to be done. Your man Harry's numbers should make people sober up, especially on the Democratic side. We saw this whole open border push in 2022 when - when -- in 2020 and 2022 where Dems were not able to make the inroads into the electorate that they thought they were going to be able to do. And so - so this, like I said, I would never speak this way, I would never advise someone to speak this way. But, ultimately, this crisis that we're having at the border is so bad that everybody says something new and something different has to happen.

HARLOW: So, Greg Abbott in Texas, and the state legislature in Texas, took matters into their own hands. They passed SB-4 this week. And what that does is it makes it illegal to enter the state of Texas illegally. Basically subverting what the Supreme Court has said, which is, no, it is the jurisdiction of the federal government, the federal government, not the states, to create their own immigration laws. Do you support SB-4? Is it a good idea for your state?

HURD: Well, ultimately, it's illegal to come to the United States, right, illegally. And that's federal law. And what SB-4 did was try to make it state law.

HARLOW: Yes.

HURD: This is going to, obviously, be challenged. This is obviously going to get challenged in the Supreme Court. Governor Abbott is trying to see whether a conservative leaning court is going to go back on precedent that we've seen in - in the past. You know, most people that follow the Supreme Court think that they won't and that SB-4 is going to fail. But ultimately it was the governor trying to say, hey, the state is going to do what the federal can't do, and that's stop and curb the amount of illegal immigration. And a lot of people are focused on SB-4. I understand that. But last week we had 10,000 people come through the border illegally in one place. All right, that's a crazy number.

HARLOW: Yes, so let me -- the numbers are a crisis to say the least for sure, but I just wonder if you agree with Greg Abbott's position here where he said that he thinks this will lead to a dramatic drop in those trying to cross into Texas. He said well over 50, may be 75 percent will stop crossing the border illegally. He's essentially making the argument they're going to go to other states. Do you think so?

HURD: Well, so if it was able to continue, I think it's going to get challenged pretty quickly. I think if you deported more people that came into the country illegally, you will see a decrease in the amount of people coming.

I agree with that logic. Whether Governor Abbott and DPS is going to have -- or Department of Public Safety in Texas is going to have the time to prove those numbers, I don't know because, like I said, this is going to be a challenge legally.

HARLOW: I wonder --

HURD: The bottom line is this. And these are numbers that Democrats are talking about. Ninety percent of the people that go through an immigration court on asylum are losing the case, OK? That means 90 percent of the people that are applying for asylum are not being granted it because they're basically lying about their -- the underlying laws -- or the reasons for applying for asylum.

HARLOW: I -

HURD: So that means nine out of ten people that are being grabbed by border patrol and saying that they have an asylum claim are being denied.

HARLOW: Well, Congressman Hurd -

HURD: Like, these are crazy numbers that need to stop.

HARLOW: Just to - just to be clear, a lot of the folks, especially in the last year, haven't even been before an asylum judge because the system is literally backed up for years.

HURD: Sure.

HARLOW: I want to ask you two questions on this. Any concerns about racial profiling, and do you share the concerns of some border sheriffs in Texas who spoke to "The New York Times" and said they're worried that this will mean overcrowding of facilities and jails but also fear that it sews distrust in law enforcement there?

HURD: Look, I'm always going to take the sides of many of these sheriffs along the border. I've worked with them closely. They understand that.

Yes, you know, our sheriffs, our local law enforcement do not have enough resources to go after the bad guys that they're dealing with now, right? And so I think this is going to impact their ability to go after them.

[08:40:06]

I think what you would see, if this was able to continue, is that DPS would be taking more of a role in that area. Look, I want to make sure that our cities and -- are going after people that are committing crimes against their wives and they're beating - the spousal abuse that's happening in this part of the world is pretty significant. That needs to be - that needs to be focused on. But, yes, it's going to have an impact on local law enforcement.

HARLOW: Just quickly before you go, I wonder if you agree with Republican Brian Birdwell, who's in the Texas State Senate, again a Republican there in the state legislature, who says, "we are setting a terrible precedent by invalidating our obedience and faithfulness to our constitution."

HURD: Look, I think immigration is very clearly demarcated as a federal responsibility.

HARLOW: OK.

HURD: And ultimately the federal government needs to be the one to part -- pass policies that stop this crisis. And it's within Joe Biden's hands in order to do that. HARLOW: Will Hurd, thank you very much. Good to have you.

HURD: Always a pressure, Poppy.

MATTINGLY: Well, a volcano erupting in Iceland overnight after weeks of seismic activity. The concerns on the ground, we'll have those, next.

HARLOW: A new class-action lawsuit was just filed after a CNN investigation found dramatic racial disparity in its mortgage lending unit at the largest credit union in the country. We have those details ahead.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LISA RICE, PRESIDENT AND CEO, NATIONAL FAIR HOUSING ALLIANCE: The black/white homeownership gap and the Latino/white homeownership gap today are both wider than they were in 1968 when we passed the Federal Fair Housing Act.

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[08:45:58]

MATTINGLY: Well, right now a volcano is erupting in Iceland. These are live pictures behind me. Shooting bubbling lava and molten rock into the sky. We're showing you new pictures we're getting this morning. They show what looks like a river of fire.

CNN's Melissa Bell is live for us in Paris, who's been monitoring the conditions in Iceland.

Melissa, as we watch the just extraordinary pictures, what are the concerns from people on the ground?

MELISSA BELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, initially just after this volcano erupted just after 10:00 p.m. last night local time, Phil, the immediate fear had been for the small town of Grindavik, which is only three kilometers from where that crack appeared, just after 10:00 p.m. it then got wider and wider as the lava pushed its way through. It's now about four kilometers wide. So, it's been growing.

But what we've seen over the last couple of hours is that lava redirect itself towards the north and east. So, the immediate fear is for the town, although it's been entirely evacuated of its 4,000 people, the immediate fears that it might be damaged by the lava have been allayed now.

The real fear now, as we watch these extraordinary pictures come into us, some of them live over the course of the day taken from above that volcano, are for the toxic fumes that continue to emerge from it. This is a huge amount of lava that has poured out through that fissure over the course of the night. You're talking about a couple of hundred cubic meters at some points every second, even though we understand that apparently the ferocity of the explosion itself has subsided somewhat. And the fear is that those toxic fumes could even head towards the capital Reykjavik and people are being urged, of course, not to make their way anywhere to close to the volcano specifically because of that toxicity that's been emerging from it, Phil.

HARLOW: All right, Melissa Bell, just stunning pictures all morning. Thank you.

HARLOW: Now to this. The Navy Federal Credit Union is now facing a class-action lawsuit over its mortgage lending practices. This follows a CNN investigation just published last week. The complaint alleges the largest credit union in the country discriminated against black and Latino applicants. CNN found the credit union had the widest racial disparity in mortgage approval for any major lender in 2020 to 2022. It approved less than half of its black applicants for conventional home mortgages.

MATTINGLY: Meanwhile, white applicants were approved more than 75 percent of the time. The data also showed that the credit union was more than twice as likely to deny black mortgage applicants than white ones, even when income debt, property value and down payment were similar.

Now, this may not prove discrimination, but it does show dramatic racial disparities in these loan approvals.

It was CNN's Rene Marsh and her team's reporting that led to this. She joins us now.

Rene, to start, what do we know about this class-action suit?

RENE MARSH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Phil and Poppy, these three law firms, including civil rights attorney Ben Crump's firm, filed this suit in federal court in Virginia this weekend. The lawsuit accuses Navy Federal of violating federal housing discrimination laws. And the class-action suit is seeking to represent a broad range of potential plaintiffs, including minority applicants who applied for Navy Federal residential loans from 2018 to present and had their applications denied, approved at a higher interest rate or subject to less favorable terms compared to similar non-minority applicants, as well as those whose applications were maybe processed at a much slower rate, slower than usual.

Now, one of the attorneys behind this suit says that the goal here is to simply obtain economic justice for black and Latino borrowers who, in his words, said -- he says were denied their piece of the American dream.

HARLOW: How are they responding, the credit union?

MARSH: Well, Navy Federal has not commented on this lawsuit. But when we first reported this story, the credit union did tell CNN that it, "is committed to equal and equitable lending practices and has strict adherence to all fair lending laws."

And one footnote coming out of Washington, D.C., here this morning, Congresswoman Maxine Waters, she is the ranking Democratic member of the House Financial Services Committee.

[08:50:05]

She said in a statement that she was calling on Navy Federal to explain both to Congress and to their members how such practices took place. She's also calling for federal regulators to investigate.

Poppy and Phil.

HARLOW: Rene Marsh, thank you to you and your team for that reporting. Keep us posted.

MATTINGLY: Well, the first woman to serve on the Supreme Court will be laid to rest today, and President Biden will deliver one of the eulogies. The life and legacy of Sandra Day O'Connor, that's next.

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HARLOW: Welcome back.

This morning, President Biden ordered the flags at the White House to fly at half-staff on Tuesday to honor the life of Sandra Day O'Connor. In just a few hours, the nation will pause and honor the trailblazing justice at her funeral service at the Washington National Cathedral.

She was confirmed unanimously in the Senate in 1981. She became the first woman to serve on the Supreme Court. One of those votes was from then Senator Joe Biden. President Biden will deliver one of the eulogies at today's service, along with the chief justice of the court, John Roberts, and O'Connor's son Jay.

The late justice died earlier this month. She was 93 years old. And she lay in repose yesterday at the Supreme Court.

Current Justice Sonia Sotomayor called her a life role model and praised her impact that O'Connor has left on the high court.

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JUSTICE SONIA SOTOMAYOR, SUPREME COURT: She understood that personal relationships were critical to working together, even and especially in the face of adversity or strenuous disagreement.

[08:55:10]

Today I know she is smiling knowing that four sisters serve on her court.

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HARLOW: And joining us now, CNN's senior Supreme Court analyst Joan Biskupic.

Joan, your piece on her today is so beautiful. And you quote Joe Biden back then as a senator, 1981, he calls her in her confirmation hearing, "a singular asset." JOAN BISKUPIC, CNN SENIOR SUPREME COURT ANALYST: You know, Poppy, I went back and re-read the transcript last night and I noted when he said that, the spectators in the hearing room spontaneously broke out in applause. And the chairman had to say, no clapping during this hearing. But, you know, she - she inspired the senators back in 1981 and she inspired the country back in 1981.

You know, I love the clip you just played about -- from Justice Sotomayor about her personal touch and her interest in personal relations because she -- there was a method behind what she did. She truly enjoyed people and she wanted to engage. She wanted, as Justice Sotomayor said, to take them out to movies, to barbecues, sometimes share an occasional glass of scotch and water. But her idea was that -- and you and Phil know this, your idea - her idea was that the more you have those kinds of bonds off the bench, the more it will make the real substance and the difficulty of deciding important cases easier because there will be more respect and good feeling among the colleagues.

MATTINGLY: How did that approach kind of shape her place on the court, her role on the court as she was there?

BISKUPIC: Well, you know, it was kind of an arc, Phil. You know, when she came on in 1981, she was definitely aligned in the more conservative members of the bench. Warren Burger was chief justice at the time. But as the court became more conservative, she actually moved more to the center. And by the time she left, in January 2006, she was the deciding vote and sometimes flipping over to the liberal side, for example, on abortion rights and racial affirmative action. So, she -- you know, advocates used to say they'd write their briefs directed to her because that's how powerful she became, Phil.

HARLOW: Can we - can we stick on those two things you just said?

BISKUPIC: Sure.

HARLOW: Because she was the majority -- she wrote the majority opinion in Grutter versus Bollinger, which to the surprise of many upheld the affirmative action right at the time. And, of course, she joined Justice Souter and Kennedy in writing the joint opinion in Casey, which upheld Roe. And what - and look at those two cases and this term of the court and their significance and their overturning.

BISKUPIC: You know, that's exactly right, Poppy. Just in the last two years her legacy has really been demolished. You know, she -- no one will ever be able to take away from her the fact that she was the first woman justice or that she, you know, decided hundreds and hundreds of cases. But those two big areas that you point to have been rolled back. And just as you say in the last two years.

She held everyone together in 1992 to uphold Roe v. Wade. But then just last year a five justice majority decimated it and eliminated constitutional abortion rights that had existed for nearly 50 years. And then this year they reversed her opinion in racial affirmative action and changed everything on campuses nationwide.

HARLOW: But, Joan -

BISKUPIC: Go ahead, yes.

HARLOW: Joan, can we remind people what she said, because it was really about the legitimacy of the court when she upheld Roe, right? She said, "both profound and unnecessary damage to a court's legitimacy and the nation's commitment to the rule of law would be done if we overturned Roe."

BISKUPIC: You know, that's exactly right. And she even acknowledged that if she had been on the 1973 court, she might not have voted for Roe. But she said, look at how long our country has lived with it. It is not ours to impose a code of morality on the country. We need to respect precedent. And that -- she was all about, you know -- she was conservative. We have to remind everyone, she was a conservative jurist, but she was centrist conservative and she wanted to move incrementally and she definitely did not want to roll back precedent because she understood the value of precedent to the American people.

MATTINGLY: It is certainly a very different moment on the court now.

BISKUPIC: It is.

MATTINGLY: Joan, your piece on cnn.com, people should definitely go read it. It's excellent.

Joan Biskupic, thank you, as always.

BISKUPIC: Thank you. Thanks.

MATTINGLY: And be sure to join Wolf blitzer for special coverage of the funeral of Supreme Court Justice Sandra Day O'Connor. It begins live this morning at 10:45 Eastern.

Another story we're following this morning, the death toll is rising in China. At least 126 people have been killed, hundreds more injured after the 5.9 magnitude earthquake struck the mountainous northwest region late Monday night. Rescue crews are working to reach earthquake survivors in subzero temperatures. Officials say the quake was followed by nine aftershocks at magnitude 3 and above.

[09:00:01]

New video overnight shows the earthquake rocking a gas station. It cut off water and electricity supplies in some areas, which is complicating rescue efforts. This is China's deadliest earthquake in nearly a decade.

HARLOW: Thank you so much for being with us today. Obviously, we have that live coverage of Sandra Day O'Connor's funeral coming up in just about two hours, but "NEWS CENTRAL" starts now.