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DeSantis Criticizes Trump "Poisoning The Blood" Comments; Haley Vows To Identify, Deport Undocumented Immigrants; New: U.S. Govt Analysts Warn Influence Of Hamas Is Growing; Today: Winter Begins As Millions Travel For The Holidays; AAA: 115 Million People Plan To Fly, Drive For Holidays. Aired 6:30-7a ET

Aired December 21, 2023 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[06:33:32]

GOV. RON DESANTIS (R-FL) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: There's a lot of people from countries that don't mean as well, that are coming from Iran, from Russia, from China. It's a security threat. I think the chance of having a terrorist attack is very, very high. There's criminal aliens. This is a great issue for us to use against Biden, because this is one of the biggest presidential failures of our lifetime.

When you start talking about using those types of terms, I don't think that that helps us move the ball forward. I would not put it in those terms.

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PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN ANCHOR: And of course, the Republican presidential candidate Ron DeSantis, offering some, I don't know we're going to say criticism, it was kind of like a (INAUDIBLE) --

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: Criticism light.

MATTINGLY: -- ish -- ish type deal, on Donald Trump's repeated use of the phrase poisoning the blood to describe immigration in the United States.

HILL: And while Trump's harsh words on immigration have drawn backlash from some Republican lawmakers, a new poll shows 42 percent of likely Iowa Republican caucus goers say those comments actually make it more likely they'll support him.

MATTINGLY: CNN political analyst, Seung Min Kim and New York Times politics correspondent, Michael Gold are back with us now. Semafor reporter Shelby Talcott is here as well.

But that was sort of you, because I thought you had a really smart story a couple days ago where you said there's all the headlines about the crazy stuff Trump says. But underneath it, if you listen to his speeches in the entirety, it's wrapped up in a lot of bread-and-butter issues, really conservative policy, which is what people I think are coming to hear and what a lot of people say is, look, he's nuts, but we liked his policy. That's what resonates.

But the numbers in the Des Moines Register poll that showed these comments actually make people like him more in the Republican primary electorate. Does that track it --

MICHAEL GOLD, POLITICS CORRESPONDENT, NEW YORK TIMES: Yes, I mean --

MATTINGLY: -- was seen on the ground?

[06:35:01]

GOLD: I would also look at the 30 percent of people who said they don't matter, because I think those two numbers together are really telling. I think, you know, over the last eight years, we've seen ways in which rhetoric that Trump uses that seems extreme has slowly worked its way toward the center of Republican politics. Immigration is Chief issue.

The, you know, the poisoning of the blood comment, it was interesting when he addressed it the other night in Iowa, and he basically rebuffed the criticism that it's xenophobic, that it's racist, the comparisons the Biden campaign has been making to, to Nazi Germany. He's pushed back against all those. And I think the fact that he's pushing back against those comparisons is really what's helping voters kind of come on board with them.

But I think it's important to remember that his anti-immigrant policies are the thing that helped drive a lot of people toward him in 2016. I don't think there's any reason to think that the electorate has changed that much. And if anything, the fact that he had such a platform for all those years has made those V's more prominent in the party.

HILL: It's also -- oh sorry, go ahead Shelby.

SHELBY TALCOTT, REPORTER, SEMAFOR: I also think that this language in particular, Republican voters over the last several years, their big thing is they want a quote unquote, fighter, right. And so, they see this language, they see the vermin language. And remember, a few weeks ago, we were talking on the show about how Trump's team had admitted that, yes, sure, it's not good that Trump is in headlines with Hitler. But at the same time when Republican voters see this language, you know, Trump is attacking Democrats as vermin, they're going to view it as a positive.

And that's one of the reasons someone like Tim Scott didn't do as well, because Republican voters want someone who is going to use this sort of aggressive language, not because I think, you know, they're all racist or, or believe these things on a deep level, because they take this language and, and think, OK, this guy is going to have really strict policies on these issues that we care a lot about it also, HILL: And also, given what we're seeing in Washington and what we're not seeing happen in Washington, right, when we're -- when we look at immigration, and how it's -- there's the attempt to tie it to all the other funding. And there's the pushback from some Democrats, for President Biden trying to make some sort of a deal there. All of this just plays into it and really ties it up with a bow for Donald Trump.

SEUNG MIN KIM, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes, it's really interesting to see kind of the dynamics of the border talks in Washington play out, because once some Democrats and immigration advocates got started to get a window of what is being discussed behind these closed doors, they're looking at the policies, and they're saying, wait, this sounds like a lot of the policies that were considered under the Trump administration, a lot of these policies that we really denounce at the time, and that we don't support. But

President Biden, when it comes to the border, he really is almost desperate for a deal. First of all, he knows that the border is an actual substance -- substantive problem and a political problem for him. But also, it is tied to that Ukraine funding that is the highest of priorities for his administration. But certainly, the compromises that the White House is willing to make is really concerning. A lot of Democrats, a lot of advocates, and a lot of them are kind of looking back to the Trump administration saying we can't do this again.

MATTINGLY: I think it's fascinating, given the resonance of the issue in the Republican primary, listening to Trump and what he's talking about, and your great points about why his team might not like it for a general election or for people. At least he denied he read Mein Kampf, so everything's great now.

But his responses versus kind of more technocratic response, like we heard from Nikki Haley. Take a listen.

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NIKKI HALEY, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Every time we see one, apply for a job, if you do the e-verify, they can't hire people that are here illegally. If they get a traffic ticket, if they're not here legally, you deport them, if they go to try and get a driver's license, or a picture ID, you deport them, we have to go and keep finding them one at a time the way we can. But if they start to realize they're getting deported, they'll stop coming.

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MATTINGLY: Shelby, we want to get you in a second as you get Nikki Haley reporting in terms of the path because she's obviously been kind of a hot non-Trump candidate in terms of how people are getting things right now.

But Michael on the trail, the distance between vermin and poising the blood, and hey, here's an actual policy proposal that I could work through and how it would work to some degree. Does that resonate?

GOLD: Well, I want to be clear, Trump does have proposals that he outlines his speech. And I think part of what's happening here is these comments are the things that are getting the headlines. And that's one of the things our piece mentioned. The comments, he's making that seem extreme, we're getting the headlines, but underneath them and much of his speeches are about what he would do. He talks about, you know, having one of the largest deportation campaigns in history. My colleagues have reported on some of the immigration plans, he would basically build on what he did in the White House, take it kind of a step further.

I think voters feel that people like Nikki Haley and Ron DeSantis, are essentially following Trump's path when they talk about what they want to do on immigration that he set the tone. He's the one that kind of outlined where they want to be in. So, when she, she might have this plan that sounds very technocratic, and very specific, but to a lot of voters are saying, well, you're taking Trump's lead here.

HILL: Is it also though that language to, what struck me about that language, it's really easy to understand. If you're a voter and you're watching and says, oh, yes, well, that makes sense. What I mean, wouldn't you verify if they're applying for a job? Wouldn't all these things already be happening? That really, I mean, that is her lane? Right. I want to be more understandable. I want to be more relatable.

TALCOTT: Yes. And that's, that's sort of one of the benefits that Nikki Haley has as opposed to I think, you know, Ron DeSantis, who and sort of has struggled to put his, his plans into this sort of very simple term that people who might not be paying attention day in and day out and watching the news all the time, can understand. And so, Haley's really good at that. But Trump's really good at it, too.

So, you're right, you're right. He takes this this sort of overarching theme, and he boils it down into, you know, don't worry about the specific policies, even though he's talking about them. Here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to stop immigration, I'm going to do XYZ and voters digest that very easily.

[06:40:34]

MATTINGLY: I'm going to ask you about your new reporting. We talked about this a little bit on Monday. And so, I'm taking full credit for the story you have, because it's super smart. But it's the pathway for Nikki Haley, which everybody's trying to figure out. We know New Hampshire, she's former governor of South Carolina. Where does that stand? Because that's right up next.

TALCOTT: Yes. It's, it's been really interesting, because so far in South Carolina, Donald Trump is dominating. And so, the question in everyone's minds at this point is say she has best case scenario where she does pretty well in Iowa. She does really well in New Hampshire potentially wins. And then this is a big if, right? This, everything has to go right. Then she still in South Carolina to deal with. And when I was talking to sort of South Carolina folks and strategists, it was really interesting, because they all argued that she does have a path, even if it's narrow, and her path is based on momentum and other people dropping out of the race. And when I talked to Haley's team, that's also sort of their thinking and how they're going to ultimately be successful in South Carolina. They argue there's a lot of time left before that happens. And if she gets a little momentum in these first two states, few people drop out, then she becomes what she has tried to become this entire presidential primary, which is the non-Trump alternative.

MATTINGLY: Yes, it's a path of vibes, but it's not, it's not an impossible path. Shelby, thank you guys very, very much. Thanks for the state visit. So, man we appreciate --

KIM: Glad to be here.

HILL: New reporting just ahead on the influence of Hamas in the wake of the deadly October 7th terror attacks in Israel. Fears growing that Israel's war could actually be helping to legitimize the group, even here in the United States.

MATTINGLY: And a Chicago man wrongfully convicted of murder is now free. Darien Harris served 12 and a half years behind bars after he was convicted on key testimony from the prosecution's star witness, who was legally blind. That critical revelation was made by his former lawyer five years ago. Harris is the fourth man to be exonerated in Cook County this month.

Stay with us.

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[06:46:49]

HILL: New CNN reporting just out this morning. U.S. intelligence is now warning both the credibility and the influence of Hamas has only grown since the October 7th terror attacks in Israel. That report detailing just how some government agencies believe Hamas has positioned itself as the defender of the Palestinian cause and an effective fighter against Israel. One senior Administration official telling CNN that before October 7th, Hamas was not a wildly popular organization. But today it's more popular.

(INAUDIBLE) analysis for Foreign Policy magazine echoes that sentiment Colin Clarke writing Hamas seems to be hoping that its ideology its cause and its brand will go global in much the same way the Islamic States did.

Colin Clarke is with us now. He's the Director of Policy and Research at the Soufan Group, also the author of After The Caliphate, The Islamic State And The Future Of The Terrorist Diaspora.

It's good to have you with us this morning. I think it's fascinating when we look at that, it's one thing right to support the Palestinian cause it is an entirely different thing to support a terror organization who has made very clear that their goal is to get rid of Israel and to kill all the Jews in the world. And yet, the support that we are seeing the growth of that support, specifically in Western countries is pretty remarkable. COLIN CLARKE, DIRECTORY OF POLICY & RESEARCH, THE SOUFAN GROUP: You're right, I think that's the first clarifying point is it's totally different to support the Palestinian cause than it is to support Hamas, which is a designated foreign terrorist organization. However, when you look at some of the protests happening across the world, we have 100,000 people out in the streets of London, it takes a very small percentage of that larger crowd to become sympathetic to a group like Hamas, and then feel like protests just aren't enough and to move toward violence.

And so, U.S. government's concerned about that radicalizing influence of a very small percentage, which could still translate into, you know, a half dozen attacks or attempts per year. It's a numbers game.

HILL: So, what do you do with that information, then?

CLARKE: Well, you're looking for, you know, radicalizing influences, you're looking for, you know, radical imams in the United States that are pushing, you know, exactly what you referenced earlier, which is a call for violence, right? We're looking for the most obvious factors and variables.

HILL: We look at, it's interesting, there's some reporting that that some of the support inside Gaza is dropping for Hamas. But that is certainly not what we're seeing in many other areas. And I'm not just talking about as we're talking about the rise in Western countries, but you're seeing specifically, there's new polling out that in the West Bank, how much support for Hamas has increased? This is going to require though if Hamas is going to continue to gain steam, as you pointed out, it's going to require more funding, potentially from Iran. How likely is that?

CLARKE: Look, and that's the, the biggest, you know, X factor here is the role of Iran and the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps Quds Force. They spent decades building Lebanese Hezbollah into a truly global terrorist organization with lethal capabilities. And if the Iranian seek to do the same with Hamas, it's going to cause a major challenge for the United States for the Europeans and for all of our allies.

HILL: Israel has been very clear that its goal is to eradicate Hamas and when you press them on that it's more, it's more talk about getting rid of all the fighters. But the reality is there is an ideology that you can't see, that you can't go after with, with what weapons.

[06:50:11]

And State Department Spokesperson, Matt Miller, noting you can't defeat an idea on the battlefield. How concerning to you is the attempt to eradicate the ideology? And is it even doable?

CLARKE: Well, I would say I think the attempt to eradicate the, the group physically is going to lead to an increase in support for the ideology, because the byproduct as we've seen as massive civilian casualties. So, you're now increasing popular support and sympathy, not only for the Palestinian cause, but for Hamas, who are positioning themselves through their propaganda as defenders of the Palestinian people as that Vanguard.

And so, as you see these just egregious numbers. This is why the United States and the Biden administration is trying to push the Israelis and Netanyahu to rein in and pull back from the civilian casualties, because that's translating directly into support for Hamas, for Palestinian Islamic Jihad and other groups.

HILL: Colin Clarke, great to have you here with us this morning for your expertise and your insight. Thank you.

CLARKE: Thank you.

HILL: Well, today is the official start of winter, the holiday travel rush also underway. And with that comes a big storm that may be playing the role of the Grinch.

MATTINGLY: And the -- I like that.

HILL: (INAUDIBLE).

MATTIINGLY: The FDA approves what could be a game changer in the fight against the opioid epidemic. The new tool that could help fight the addiction that's ahead.

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[06:55:30]

HILL: We are just hours away from the official start of winter. And of course, and the days are getting longer after the solstice which is 10:27 p.m. Eastern time tonight. It also means it's kicking off the holiday rush, that's in full swing two great tastes that taste great together.

MATTINGLY: I will not be awake at 10:27 tonight. AAA for (INAUDIBLE) 115 million travelers will fly or drive at least 50 miles over the next week. That's the second busiest holiday travel weekend a week since 2000.

CNN meteorologist Derek Van Dam is monitoring that all important forecast the solstice and what it means. And CNN's Pete Muntean is at Reagan National Airport.

Peter, I want to start with you. Tell us what you're seeing what the TSA is expecting, how this is going to be if you're packing up your kids and trying to go somewhere this weekend.

PETE MUNTEAN, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: What you're looking at here at Reagan National Airport Phil, is the start of the 7:00 a.m. rush on what has to be the biggest day before the holiday according to the TSA. It's expecting 2.5 million people at airports across the country today. That's a 6 percent increase compared to the same day a year ago, 49,000 flights will carry all of those people according to the FAA.

But the big question is whether or not airlines can keep it together after a really bad stretch over a year ago. In fact, a year ago today is one the 10 day long Southwest Airlines meltdown kicked off, 16,000 flights canceled, 2 million people stranded.

So far this year, things have gotten a lot better. The cancellation rate only about 1.3 percent of all flights canceled according to FlightAware. But 20 percent of all flights delayed an average of 52 minutes. And I asked Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg about that, he says that number is concerning and it needs to come down. Listen.

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PETE BUTTIGIEG, TRANSPORTATION SECRETARY: Now so far this year on the cancellation front were 1.2 percent below two is what I would consider healthy, closer to one if we can keep it that way. That's encouraging. That does invite us to pay more attention to the issue of delays and to press the air -- the airlines on how they're behaving.

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MUNTEAN: Top Senate Democrats, Ed Markey and Richard Blumenthal just wrote the top airline lobby to say, it is the delay number that is concerning and points out that the airlines may not be fully prepared for this holiday rush. We will see though. Good news is just check flight aware that delays and cancellations pretty low. We've only seen about 40 or 50 cancellations so far in the U.S. today, about 350 delays.

Although the day is still young, Phil and Erica and the FAA is warning of ground stops today because of heavy wind in Boston and in the New York metro area.

MATTINGLY: Oh, am I was that? Uh, that was a segue. That was a segue right there. Because right now --

HILL: Pete Muntean it's a professional though.

MATTINGLY: That is old school pro savvy move right there. Over to you, Derek Van Dam. Derek. I pride myself in my extreme observational skills. First day of winter. There was no snow on the ground when I came to work. I picked that part up a lot of people wondering is that going to happen? Would --

HILL: (INAUDIBLE).

MATTINGLY: -- change have an effect? What do we know here?

DEREK VAN DAM, CNN METEROLOGIST: Yes, there is a lot of rain on this tortuous (ph) Christmas travel forecast, and very little snow. But that's part of a wider trend across the country. Seventy-five percent of the United States winter seasons are warming and nowhere is it warming faster than the Northeast and the Midwest.

So as Phil mentioned, he was used to snow when he was a kid. But no longer, things are changing quickly. In fact, winter, the winter months are rapidly the fastest warming season out of all the seasons. Now this doesn't mean we won't get massive snowstorms, the nor'easters along the east coast. But once that reaches that 32-degree temperature threshold, we're going to kind of work our way into more rainy events. Right. So, in New York City, you've already seen four degrees of warming since 1970. During those winter months, and this is not lost on us. It has been 675 days since the Big Apple has had one inch of snow on the ground.

Take last week for instance, we depleted our snowpack across the Northeast by over 40 percent. And Erica and Phil I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but this could end up being the least snowiest Christmas day in the past 20 years. Look at this, the current snowpack just under 16 percent across the country. That record was in well set back in 2003 with only 21 percent.

So yes, not the White Christmas that everybody hoped and dreamed off.

[07:00:06]

MATTINGLY: Just to be clear, kids, Derek is just the messenger.