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Trump Pressured Michigan Election Officials in Phone Call; Special Counsel Urges Justices to Hear Immunity Case Now; U.S. to Support U.N.'s Latest Gaza Resolution; Deadly Mass Shooting Rattles Czech Republic. Aired 6-6:30a ET

Aired December 22, 2023 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JOHN AVLON, CNN ANCHOR: You know, it's all about the joy of kids, and that spirit. And I love that he's leveraging his celebrity for something more important than celebrity. Carrying it forward. It's beautiful. It's really great.

[06:00:13[

All right. Thanks, Carolyn.

Thanks for joining us. I'm John Avlon. CNN THIS MORNING starts right now.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, everyone. So glad you're with us. I'm Poppy Harlow with Phil Mattingly. There is a lot of news for a Friday before Christmas. It is December the 22nd.

"The Detroit News" reporting then-President Donald Trump was recorded personally calling and pressuring two Michigan canvassers to not certify the 2020 vote just after the election. And here's why this is so crucial, especially right now.

The efforts to overturn Michigan's election results are a significant part of the special counsel, Jack Smith's, federal elections subversion case.

Smith is now pushing the Supreme Court to decide immediately whether Trump has presidential immunity from alleged crimes committed while he was in office. The high court could decide whether to take up that case as soon as today.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN ANCHOR: Also this morning, the United States is now ready to support a United Nations resolution calling for an indefinite pause in fighting and more aid to Gaza.

The vote had been delayed several times over the course of this week. It's now scheduled for today. It comes as Israel has proposed a new hostage release deal to Hamas.

And if you're packing to head home for the holidays, you're not alone. AAA is expecting record holiday travel numbers. CNN THIS MORNING starts right now. HARLOW: And we do begin with a new Trump tape, this time in Michigan.

And it could be powerful evidence For Special Counsel Jack Smith as he pursues felony charges against the former president for efforts to overturn the election.

"The Detroit News" this morning reports there is a recorded phone call of Trump personally pressuring two Republican election officials in Wayne County, Michigan, telling them they would look, quote, "terrible" if they certified the results in their county.

MATTINGLY: And Trump reportedly made that phone call right after this meeting back in November of 2020, during which those same two officials initially voted to block the certification before changing course.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All those opposed say nay.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nay.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Nay.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There is no reason under the sun for us to not certify this election. I believe that politics made its presence here today. This is reckless and irresponsible actions by this board.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: And the timeline here is very important. "The Detroit News" reports that, in the phone call after that meeting, Trump told the officials, quote, "We've got to fight for our country. We can't let these people take our country away from us."

RNC Chairwoman Ronna McDaniel -- still RNC chairwoman -- was apparently on the call and said, quote, "If you can go home tonight, do not sign it. We will get you attorneys."

Trump added, "We'll take care of that."

HARLOW: Following that phone call, two officials refused to sign the official certification paperwork, and they publicly admitted they received a call from Trump and McDaniel.

Here is how one of them described the call to reporters when asked about it a few days later.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I received a call from the president. It was after the meeting. And he thanked me for my service, asked me how I was doing. There was a genuine concern for my safety with what he had heard, the threats that were -- that were coming in.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you saying the president's call had no influence on you recanting your vote? UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Absolutely.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: It's fair to say, based on the reporting, there was a little more to it than that.

CNN has not heard the recording of the phone call. Here's what's Trump's campaign spokesman is saying about it: quote, "All of President Trump's actions were taken in furtherance of his duty as president of the United States to faithfully take care of the laws and ensure election integrity."

Leading off, to break this down for us, Sara Krissoff. She's a former assistant U.S. attorney for the Southern District of New York.

So people who say, we've heard him on tape before. How that's possible, I have no idea. But what does this mean, bigger picture, given the fact that he's already been indicted? This seems to follow directly into what the special prosecutor is looking at.

SARA KRISSOFF, FORMER ASSISTANT U.S. ATTORNEY: This is going to be very useful evidence for the special prosecutor. This is the type of evidence that juries like. I mean, they're going to love it, actually, if they get to hear it.

And so I think this is -- you know, having this recording to supplement any witness testimony is really a useful piece of evidence for the special prosecutor.

HARLOW: Will the courts look at this, because the Trump defense, as we just read, is essentially, this was an official act. This was in furtherance of the duties of a president.

Courts have ruled that Mark Meadows's defense to that end doesn't -- doesn't hold water. The same here for, you think, a presidential defense, to that effect?

KRISSOFF: Yes. I mean, their statement here really ties into this argument they're going to -- they're making in the appellate court and probably the Supreme Court soon about the immunity.

[06:05:03]

So they're really trying to put this activity within the core of his -- the former president's presidential responsibilities, to try to get that immunity.

MATTINGLY: One of the questions I had when this broke, beyond dude, stop criming on phone calls, is does Jack Smith have this tape? And if he doesn't, could he get it? We don't know. But to the latter point, he doesn't have the tape, does this mean he can get it very quickly?

KRISSOFF: Yes. You know, the -- the one thing that the Department of Justice has is the ability to basically get whatever they want. So they have access to information in a way that the rest of us don't have access to.

So to the extent they don't have it, I'm sure it will be in their hands very shortly.

HARLOW: Sarah, stay with us. We've got a lot more to get to this morning.

MATTINGLY: And on that bigger picture this morning, the Supreme Court watch, it continues. The big question: how will justices handle cases with enormous political implications just weeks before the Iowa caucuses?

Special Counsel Jack Smith again asking the court to decide immediately if Donald Trump has presidential immunity for alleged crimes committed while he was in office.

CNN's Jessica Schneider joins us now.

Jess, we're all kind of waiting on pins and needles for this. Do we have any idea when the court will weigh in?

JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I mean, they really could decide at any moment, Phil, because the briefing is all in. The question is will the Supreme Court agree to leapfrog the lower appeals court and hear this case quickly concerning whether or not the former president is immune from criminal prosecution in this January 6th case.

So Trump's team, they've been arguing that the former president, he was operating, they say, within his official duties on and around January 6th. They say because of that, he can't be prosecuted.

And they also say he's immune, because he was acquitted by the Senate in his impeachment trial.

Now, the lower court disagreed with that. She said Trump is not immune, the district court judge. And Trump's team in the meantime, they've appealed to the D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals.

But the special counsel is really asking the Supreme Court to leap- frog them, jump in now, not wait for the appeals process to play out and to immediately hear this case.

And this is how Jack Smith's team is arguing it. They're saying, the public interest in a prompt resolution of this case favors an immediate, definitive decision by this court. The charges here are of the utmost gravity.

So, now that it's all been fully briefed, all of the papers are in, we'll wait to see if the Supreme Court agrees to hear this case and put it on the fast track, maybe to be heard in the next several weeks, a decision potentially before the end of their term in late June.

And then of course, Poppy and Phil, we're also expecting Trump's team to appeal that Colorado Supreme Court decision that said he should be taken off the ballot in that state because of the provisions of the 14th Amendment. Trump's team, they have until January 4th, really, to appeal to the

U.S. Supreme Court in order to stay on the ballot, at least for the primary. We'll see about the general election if he's the nominee, guys.

HARLOW: OK. Jess, before you go, turning to another case, Trump is trying to delay the civil trial. It is set right now for next month. This is in a lawsuit by E. Jean Carroll. What are his legal options here?

SCHNEIDER: So they're really asking the federal appeals court to just pause this defamation trial. It's set for just a few weeks in mid- January.

They're saying they want to have time to consider other ways to challenge the basis of this case. They lost recently when Trump tried to claim immunity in that defamation case.

So now the legal team wants to go back to the drawing board. They want to determine other avenues of appeal. And they need time, because the clock is ticking here. It's a January 16th trial date that's set.

This would be the first of what's really scheduled to be a long list of legal proceedings over the next year that will cascade into the election year.

So, it's a lot for Trump's legal team to tackle. We have the defamation case beginning in January. And then the special counsel's cases could start as early as March 4th and then may for the classified documents case.

So, really Trump's team in this particular E. Jean Carroll case, they're looking to delay here as much as they can. They're asking the appeals court to put a pause on things so they can figure out how to maneuver now legally, guys.

MATTINGLY: Jessica Schneider, thank you.

HARLOW: Talk about all of this. Sarah back with us. We're also joined by a political reporter for Politico New York, Emily Ngo, and CNN political commentator and Spectrum News anchor, Errol Louis.

Welcome to the table, guys.

I just -- I want to pivot back to what "The Detroit News" is reporting. That basically, there's the Georgia call we know about, then now, there's this Michigan call from 2020. We haven't heard the tape, which I think is interesting. In Georgia, we heard it. We're going to have the reporter on next hour, so we'll talk to them about that.

What's your big takeaway her in terms of the political impact or nonimpact?

ERROL LOUIS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, no, I think there will be political impact. I mean, what we're hearing from the president on the campaign trail, he's starting to bring up the question of the future of democracy and whether or not Donald Trump is a threat to democracy.

It's not an attempt to disqualify him. That's what Hillary Clinton tried. That's what a lot of the Republican rivals tried in 2016, and that didn't really work.

On the other hand, we saw in 2020 to great effect, Joe Biden saying, like, listen, we -- we have seen what this means. This isn't just chaos. This isn't just unfortunate statements. This is somebody who's striking at the heart of democracy.

[06:10:11]

And all of the polling shows that, once the -- the January 6th hearings took place, the viewership across all kind of media, people were riveted by it.

The polling changed right away. People started to realize, hey, there's something really serious about this, about undermining our democracy.

People like their democracy. They like their votes to count. You know, they came out. I mean, it was really interesting. Jocelyn Benson, the secretary of state, had a really interesting tweet just in the last day or so, talking about how what made the difference in her opinion was that hundreds of people in Wayne County, the Detroit area, all came out and demanded that their votes be counted.

So, you know, I think politically, that issue then starts to rise to the top. And the polling says -- suggests that it's really high up there, right under the economy, which is always the No. 1 issue when people are picking a president.

MATTINGLY: I'm really glad you made the point about Jocelyn Benson. Because I think a lot of -- there's been so much that has happened and so much happening in that moment. A lot of people have forgotten things or kind of moved past things. And the timeline here is critical.

These two individuals, canvassers, voted against certifying. Then, after the significant public pressure that Errol was citing, they change their votes.

Then the phone call happened. When they were asked about the phone call, one of the people, Monica Palmer said that she felt no pressure to change her vote. And yet, the next day, they sent in sworn affidavits, trying to change their vote, which they legally couldn't.

The pressure happened. They tried to change their votes. This all matters.

ERICA NGO, POLITICAL REPORTER, POLITICO NEW YORK: Absolutely. And if they had been successful, that would have resulted in a significantly different 2020. And there's a pattern that's been established here. It's not just

Georgia and Michigan, but Donald Trump tried to pressure an official in Arizona, as well. Those three swing states absolutely crucial to the electoral path that he thought he had to the White House.

But it's pressure. It's cajoling. It's coercing. And it all plays into the investigation already underway by Jack Smith.

I want to have a brief shout-out to local news media. "The Detroit News" exposing this phone call that we have yet to hear.

But it also implicates Ronna McDaniel, who remains the chair of the RNC. So we will see whether she plays into a prosecution, ultimately.

HARLOW: To that point, what kind of legal jeopardy could she be in, if any? Just looking at the Michigan penal code, talking about bribes. I don't know if this would be seen that way or not. You would know better than I.

That person, quote, "shall forfeit office or forever be disqualified from holding any public office, trust, or appointment under the constitutional laws of this state."

That wouldn't apply to her. But legally, could she be in peril?

KRISSOFF: Listen, it's hard to know without listening to that whole recording and understanding the context of it. I suspect not, frankly. I think things were probably worded, you know, softly enough --

HARLOW: Even offering lawyers?

KRISSOFF: Yes. I mean, I think it's pretty common, frankly, for folks to pay for legal counsel for others. It is not an unusual thing. It happens in criminal cases. It happens in civil cases. And sometimes the very fact of paying for lawyers becomes a part of the case, right? Becomes incriminating evidence.

HARLOW: Can I just push back a little bit and ask, this -- if this did play out the way that we hear, and that the reporters heard in that reporting, and if the context of the broader call doesn't change things, the offer for lawyers was sort of, if you do this, we will give you a lawyer. Isn't that different than on the back end saying there's legal representation?

KRISSOFF: Yes. It still doesn't bother me that much, actually. I mean, I think there is a concern on the part of the Michiganders. Being from Michigan myself. One of my favorite words, Michigan -- Michiganders.

But I think there was a concern of their liability here, given their -- their vacillation. And I think it was sort of expected that -- that Trump and the chairwoman would come out with a -- you know, We'll protect you; we'll take care of you.

That doesn't surprise me, frankly.

MATTINGLY: Errol, putting it in the context of what the Supreme Court is weighing right now. I understand people trying to act like they operate in a vacuum. I'm pretty sure they read the newspapers and watch television. Does this add pressure?

LOUIS: For sure. Listen, they've got to do some work. You know, the Supreme Court, they're -- they're sort of very hands off. They only get a handful of cases. They look at these lofty constitutional questions. That's the norm, at least.

In this case, you've got, you know, 20 states that are all going down this -- this path of trying to decide whether or not the 14th Amendment disqualifies Donald Trump from even becoming a candidate.

They've now got this question in front of them. They've got Jack Smith asking, is there presidential immunity or is there not? They are going to set is the table. They are going to really sort of create the frame in which this next election takes place.

And I think they're all very aware of it. It would be, I think, cheap and shallow to assume that, simply because several of them were appointed by Donald Trump, they're going to go his way.

[06:15:06]

Let's give them some credit. They've got lifetime tenure for a reason. They've got a lifetime of history behind them. They've got the eyes of the world on them and, frankly, the future of democracy very much on -- you know, in their inbox right now.

HARLOW: I'm glad you said that, Errol. It's a very important point.

Guys, thank you very much.

Stick around. We have a lot more ahead.

MATTINGLY: The U.S. says it's ready to vote on a United Nations resolution to provide aid to Gaza. How today's much-delayed vote could help thousands of people at risk of starving.

HARLOW: Also this chilling photo shows college students hiding on a ledge during that mass shooting in Prague. We have new details this morning, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MATTINGLY: Well, later today, the U.S. is expected to support the U.N. Security Council resolution vote on Gaza after four delays. The U.S. ambassador to the U.N. spoke to the media after a closed-door session last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LINDA THOMAS-GREENFIELD, U.S. AMBASSADOR TO THE UNITED NATIONS: I won't share how I will vote, but it will be a resolution, if the resolution is put forward as is, that we can support.

(END VIDEO CLIP) MATTINGLY: Meantime, Israel has proposed a new deal for 35 hostages in exchange for a one-week pause in the fighting. Hamas has said that any hostage exchange release depends on a complete ceasefire in Gaza, but U.S. officials still believe there is a pathway.

[06:20:03]

CNN's Jeremy Diamond joins us live from Karem Shalom crossing in Israel.

Jeremy, I want to -- I want to start with the U.N., though, because there have been intense negotiations behind the scenes over the course of the last several days. It seems like the U.S. is there now. What changed the dynamic?

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it appears that the U.S. had concerns initially over that monitoring mechanism specifically; concerns that having the United Nations oversee the entry and checking the aid going into Gaza when the Israeli officials, they want to be conducting those security checks, that this could perhaps add an extra layer of red tape that could actually slow the delivery of aid into Gaza rather than speeding it up.

And so it appears that those issues have been addressed, and now the U.S. appears to be in a position where they could potentially, though they won't say it explicitly, support this resolution if it comes up for a vote later today.

But Phil, we are at the Karem Shalom border crossing. And behind me, you can see dozens of trucks filled with humanitarian aid, preparing to enter this Karen Shalom crossing, where they will go directly into the Gaza Strip.

We have -- this is the first week that Israeli officials have actually allowed aid to cross directly from Israel, undergo the security checks here at the Karen Shalom border crossing and go into Gaza.

But of course, the humanitarian need in Gaza is enormous. The World Food Programme estimates that about half of Gaza's population is now suffering from severe or extreme hunger.

But today Colonel Moshe Tetro, who is in charge of coordinating that aid into Gaza for Israel, he proclaimed that there is no food shortage. I pressed him on that. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COL. MOSHE TETRO, HEAD OF THE COORDINATION AND LIAISON ADMINISTRATION TO GAZA: There are tens of trucks loaded with food entering the Gaza Strip every day. There are thousands of tons of food entering the Gaza Strip every day. So --

DIAMOND: But you deny the reality on the ground? I mean, the reality on the ground is people are hungry. People are skipping meals every day. TETRO: The state of Israel took a lot of measures in order to increase

the amount of aid entering the Gaza Strip from day to day. And we are more than ready to operate this operation in much larger scale.

The challenge right now, as I told you, is the capacity of the international organization to take those supplies and to distribute it into the Gaza Strip.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DIAMOND: And before the war in Gaza began, about 500 trucks, of both commercial and aid trucks, went into Gaza every single day. Right now less than half of that is actually getting into Gaza.

And so humanitarian aid officials very concerned about the worsening humanitarian crisis in Gaza and very much say that more aid needs to get in desperately -- Phil.

MATTINGLY: Jeremy, so striking last week, your interview with national security advisor Jake Sullivan saying that crossing where you are right now needed to be opened. It now is. We'll see if it has an effect.

Jeremy Diamond live for us, thank you.

HARLOW: We're also learning much more this morning about the deadliest peacetime attack in modern Czech history.

A gunman opening fire at a university in the capital of Prague, killing at least 14 people and injuring 25 others.

As the chaos broke out, students were barricading themselves in rooms. Some even hid on the ledge of a building to escape the attacker.

Melissa Bell is covering this and joins us now with much more.

Good morning, Melissa. Do we have any more information about the shooter or motive and also the condition of the 25 people injured?

MELISSA BELL, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: We're hearing that the 25 injured, Poppy, are in stable condition, but we've learned -- been learning more the identities of many of the 14 victims.

They were students, as you might expect at that time of day on a busy city center campus. There were staff, as well. Some of the staff at Charles University lost their lives in what was a particularly brutal attack.

And what we understand about the events of the day is that this shooter, the young 24-year-old philosophy student, having killed his father, made his way to his campus, targeted the students and staff there, then took his own life.

There had been some doubt as to whether he had been taken out by police or shot himself. In fact, we've now learned from police that he shot himself. So, terrible scenes and a day of national mourning that will be held

on Saturday. And the country that has been profoundly shocked by this, Poppy. These are relatively rare in Europe, compared to the United States, these sorts of killings.

And for now in terms of his motive, to your question, we don't know what may have prompted him to act the way he did so -- in such a deadly way yesterday. We do know he had no criminal record but did have legal access to firearms.

The Czech Republic is one of the very small European countries where the proportion of firearms ownership is relatively high, compared to the rest of the European Union -- Poppy.

HARLOW: Melissa Bell, reporting for us. Thank you very much -- Phil.

[06:25:00]

MATTINGLY: Here's a live look at LaGuardia Airport in New York City. AAA expects this holiday travel season to break some records. We're going to share some tips before you head out.

Plus --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I want to support you. I also want to hear from you that you also think there's a danger here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: That's Nikki Haley, confronted by a voter who says Donald Trump is a, quote, "grave danger to the United States." We'll show you how she responded ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SETH MEYERS, HOST, "LATE NIGHT WITH SETH MEYERS": The FAA says that it expects holiday air travel will peak today. OK, but what do they mean expect? We all bought our tickets a long time ago. You can just check? Is anybody showing up to the airport on December 21st on a whim? Yes, you know, I just came out to have dinner at Chili's and then thought, hell, baby, I'll fly to Orlando, you know? Everybody else seems to be doing it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: Chili's is amazing, for the record.

HARLOW: Southwest Egg Rolls.

MATTINGLY: Very good. Excellent.

There is a live look of LAX. Not Chili's, at least not outside. It's 3 a.m. in Los Angeles. Fairly calm, but not for long.

AAA forecasts record air travel this holiday season. CNN's Polo Sandoval joins us now from New York's LaGuardia Airport.

Polo, what are we expecting as we head into a very busy time?