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Colorado GOP Asks Supreme Court to Keep Trump in Ballot; Mexico's Top Diplomat Calls Meeting With U.S. Officials Very Good; Israeli Military Chief Says, War Will Last Many More Months. Aired 7- 7:30a ET

Aired December 28, 2023 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COY WIRE, CNN SPORTS CORRESPONDENT: Into a story about humanity.

[07:00:01]

Hamlin will return to the field, playing for the Bills in the fall, completing one of the greatest comebacks in history.

ANDY SCHOLES, CNN SPORTS CORRESPONDENT (voice over): This event was life changing, but it's not the end of my story.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Our thanks to Andy Scholes for that.

CNN This Morning continues now.

New this morning, appealing to the Supreme Court, the Colorado Republican Party wants the justices to put Donald Trump's name back on the ballot after the state's high court banned him for engaging in an insurrection. And that's not the only ballot fight. What the former president is demanding now.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN ANCHOR: And Nikki Haley was asked a clear question, what was the cause of the United States Civil War? Hear what her answer did not include is she prepares to head back out on the campaign trail in just a few hours.

And top Biden cabinet secretary said they have a very productive meeting with the Mexican president and his cabinet. How they plan to slow border crossings as a huge caravan moves north through Mexico.

This hour of CNN This Morning starts right now.

And we start this hour with Donald Trump's battle to stay on the ballot. It is playing out in multiple states, and big decisions could be coming down at any time. The Colorado GOP is now asking the Supreme Court to keep Trump on the ballot. That, of course, comes after the state's top court ruled that he engaged in an insurrection on January 6th and was therefore disqualified. Trump himself could still appeal. HARLOW: Also, at any moment we could hear from the secretary of state of Maine, will she keep Trump on the ballot or remove him? She's a Democrat and she could make the decision as soon as today.

Trump's lawyers are demanding she recuse herself. They sent a letter accusing her of having a personal bias against a former president.

And Trump is coming off a legal victory in Michigan. That state's Supreme Court has rejected an effort to try to kick Trump off their primary ballot.

MATTINGLY: And we start with CNN Senior Legal Analyst Elie Honig, who joins us now from the magic wall.

Elie, let's start with the 14th Amendment.

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Yes.

MATTINGLY: We've been talking about it constantly. What exactly does it say?

HONIG: Good idea, Phil. You always start with the text. Good. Have you been to law school?

MATTINGLY: No, I just follow guys who have.

HONIG: 14th Amendment ratified in 1868. The important part of this is Section 3, which tells us that no person shall hold any office who shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. It seems fairly straightforward.

But the question that leaves open is, how does this get decided? Who gets to decide? Well, if you flip ahead to Section 5 of the 14th Amendment, it tells us that Congress shall have the power to enforce by appropriate legislation the provisions of this article.

Now, Congress here means the federal United States Congress. They have the power to pass legislation. What that leaves open the question to is do the states have the power to come up with their own procedures? And if they do, are those procedures adequate to protect the due process interest of whoever is at stake?

So, that's where the Constitution itself leaves us. This has led to a flurry of lawsuits and political efforts to get Donald Trump thrown off the ballot under the 14th Amendment.

HARLOW: So, secretaries of state are very much in focus right now in multiple states. We just said what happened in Michigan from their high court. We'll get to the courts in a minute. But what about -- look at Maine and these other secretaries of state.

HONIG: Yes. So, a lot of these efforts have started with individual state level secretaries of state. Today, we're watching for Maine. We expect a ruling out of that secretary of state first. It's important to note, these rulings by secretaries of state often are precursors to litigation that follows. If we look at the broader landscape here, it's not gone well for people trying to kick Donald Trump off. We've seen secretaries in these states decline to kick Donald Trump off. They've said, we don't believe we have the constitutional power to do that. That includes Democrats, prominent Democrat Jocelyn Benson, secretary of state in Michigan, and Republicans, Brad Raffensperger. We know he was on the receiving end of one of Donald Trump's efforts to try to flip an election result. Both of them have said, we do not believe we have the legal power to throw him off the ballot.

MATTINGLY: The opponents have had some success, or at least one success, going through the courts. Explain why.

HONIG: Yes, exactly right. So, the map doesn't look great so far in terms of how these cases have come out for people trying to throw Trump off the ballot Let's look at the landscape. Those legal challenges have been rejected by courts, some by the state Supreme Court, some by lower court still pending. But in these six states, they're 0-6, these six states have rejected it. Most recently, just yesterday, the Michigan Supreme Court said, no, we're not throwing them off the ballot.

There have been about a half -- excuse me a dozen or so other cases where plaintiffs have brought lawsuits and then withdrawn them for various reasons So, those lawsuits have not gotten anywhere.

Colorado, at this point, stands alone. They're the only state court that has thrown Donald Trump off the ballot. But, of course, they're not going to be the final word. Just a refresher last week, the Colorado state-level Supreme Court, seven justices all appointed by Democratic governors, 4-3 ruled that Trump is disqualified. The next step is the U.S. Supreme Court. In fact, yesterday we saw the Colorado Republican Party file suit in the Supreme Court. I think Trump himself is going to follow soon.

And I think, ultimately, just given this map and all the chaos on it, I think the U.S. Supreme Court will intervene and has to intervene to give us some clarity here.

HARLOW: What about the filing, the new filing from Jack Smith, the special counsel in the election subversion case, trying to limit what Trump can say about politics?

HONIG: Yes, over to the criminal cases. This is a normal motion. I used to file all the time. We used to call it the anti-B.S. motion because while a defendant does have the right to defend himself, there are limits.

And that's what Jack Smith is doing here. He's saying, we can't get into irrelevant arguments about political motivations, about him being singled out, about the level of security of the Capitol. And I think Jack Smith is right here. None of that should matter to the actual defense. The judge is going to have to go through and try to set limits. Yes, Donald Trump, you can defend yourself aggressively, but it's not a free-for-all.

MATTINGLY: All right. Elie Honig, we appreciate you, my friend. Thank you.

HONIG: All right.

HARLOW: Let's get a lot more now on how the president is reacting to all of this. Kristen Holmes joins us.

First of all, let's start with what the former president is saying this morning about the possibility of being taken off the ballot. Obviously, he seems keenly focused specifically on the state of Maine.

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's right. So, basically, what we know so far, and I do want to make this clear of all of the legal battles that Donald Trump is facing, this is the one that he and his team are the least concerned about. And that is because of what you just saw when Elie laid out that map. One, there have been multiple cases that were put forward and then withdrawn. And then in key states, like Arizona, Minnesota, New Hampshire, Florida, Georgia, now Michigan, they've all rejected this idea that Donald Trump can be thrown off the ballot.

So, last night in an interview, we heard from Donald Trump essentially saying that he hopes the Supreme Court sides with him when it comes to the state of Colorado. Now, we do know that this is now at the Supreme Court because the Republican Party has brought it there. We also believe that Donald Trump will still be filing his own appeal.

But the interesting thing about Maine, as Elie said, there is a differential here. Some of these states, it goes directly to the courts. The other goes to the secretary of state. In the case of Maine, Donald Trump is now asking that secretary of state to recuse herself, pointing to former social media posts that he believes or that he is saying a show that she is anti-Trump. And that's unlikely to happen. Again, even after the secretary of state in Maine rules, it will likely go to the courts. But that's where the steps are being taken right now.

MATTINGLY: Kristen, I want to ask you about your story this morning, because I think it's fascinating, and I think it just dives in on a dynamic that I think is probably underappreciated to some degree in terms of there is a very professional campaign apparatus working with Donald Trump this time around, very different from 2016, some different from 2020. And yet there's still the constellation of allies and sycophants and hangers on the periphery that all want to claim that they're doing things for his campaign. How does this dynamic play out?

HOLMES: Well, it's been really fascinating to watch. So, one of the things, as you noted, this time around, that's different from 2016 and 2020, is not only this team very disciplined, it's also very small. And what they have done, it's led by Susie Wiles and Chris LaCivita. They are two veteran Republican strategists. They have, one, worked on the math. They've been traveling the country meeting with state parties, working on the delegate math. The other part of what they have done is really worked to manage the messaging.

What they don't want is the internal leaks that hurt Donald Trump in 2016 and plagued his presidency to hurt his chances of going back to the White House. And to be clear, they know who their candidate is. They know he is going to do what he wants and say what he wants. But what they're trying to do is manage the people around him and have a cohesive message coming out of it.

And there is one part of this. As Donald Trump has grown in popularity, as it looks clear that he's going to possibly be the GOP nominee, people have started to come out of the woodwork. And what I'm hearing from so many people who are very close and who have stood by Trump throughout this time, it's hard to manage that messaging from the people outside, because Donald Trump's orbit is very big, and there are a lot of people who want to show that they have power in case he does win a second term.

HARLOW: Control what you can. Kristen, great reporting, thank you.

MATTINGLY: It's good life advice.

HARLOW: For all your thanks. Thank you.

MATTINGLY: But also this morning Iran is suggesting that Hamas' October 7th attack was in response to the killing of a top Iranian general in 2020. Mark Esper was the defense secretary at the time. What he makes of this allegation.

And right now, heavy rain in the northeast, more than 10 million people across New Jersey, Eastern Pennsylvania, and Northern Delaware right now under a flood watch. Forecasters say the heaviest rainfall expected this evening.

Some areas seeing as much as three inches of rain, big cities, with a slight risk of excessive rainfall at Washington, D.C., Baltimore, Philadelphia, and right here in New York.

Back at a moment.

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HARLOW: New this morning, Homeland Security Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas says he had a, quote, very productive meeting yesterday with Mexico's president. Secretary Mayorkas, also Secretary of State Antony Blinken and White House Homeland Security Adviser Liz Sherwood-Randall were in Mexico yesterday for those high level talks about the surge of migrants at the southern border.

Blinken's Mexican counterpart says they discussed the importance of the economic relationship specifically between the two countries, also the root causes of migration, poverty and equality, violence.

The meeting comes as the southern border has officials that are scrambling to respond to really an unprecedented level of illegal crossings, especially in recent weeks.

Joining us now for more on this is former Defense Secretary under President Trump Mark Esper. Secretary, I appreciate your time this morning.

The readout of the meeting from the Mexicans and from the Biden administration, is that it was very productive. My question to you is what can actually happen now that would be most effective to stem the tide of crossings?

MARK ESPER, FORMER DEFENSE SECRETARY UNDER TRUMP: Well, first of all, not surprised at the reporting that it was productive.

[07:15:00]

It's important for both sides to announce such a thing. It's important economically for both sides as well, politically also.

But, look, Mexico has been through this before with the United States. These short-term campaigns, if you will, to address the surge, they can be effective. But the challenge is Mexico doesn't have the funding, the infrastructure, the staff, rightly the motivation to kind of keep up with some of the things that the United States is requesting. And, of course, they have to do those things with a degree of criminality happening in the country due to the cartels and a degree of corruption as well within their own government.

So, look, I'm sure it could well have some good short-term effect. But at the end of the day, we really need border security coupled with immigration reform to address the long-term and dormant problems that we see on the southwest border.

HARLOW: We know what a second term Trump administration may look like in terms of dealing with migration, especially the southern border, because he's laid it out. And you've called some of the terms that he has used, such as immigrants poison the blood of our country, you've said it's un-American, pointing out you're the grandson of immigrants.

With The New York Times deep dive reporting laying out exactly what Trump has said and laid out that they would do, rounding up undocumented people by the millions holding them in camps before deportations, many deportations, by the way, that would not include due process hearings, reassigning of federal agents, deputizing local police and National Guard voluntarily from Republican states down to the southern border.

The numbers were way lower during the Trump administration, even on the highest year, about half of the crossings that we've seen in the last year of the Biden administration, but do those do those strategies concern you what he's laid out?

ESPER: Well, they do, the things that you mentioned, but they resonate with his base, who is very concerned about border security. And, of course, when you enlarge that, but clearly there is a growing bipartisan concern about border security. It's not just Republicans, Republican governors, but big city Democratic mayors, governors as well. So, this has become a big political problem for President Biden at this point. And Donald Trump is capitalizing on it with the objectives, the actions that he's discussing. HARLOW: In your memoir, you made a lot of headlines, but one of them that really stood out is that you wrote that President Trump asked you in 2020 about launching missiles into Mexico. Launching missiles into Mexico is a way to fight off the cartels. And Trump reasoned that Mexico, quote, didn't have control over its country and no one would know that it was us. Do you think that would actually be something that he would pursue in a second term?

ESPER: I think so, absolutely. He's talked about it. He has not denied it. When my memoir came out, he didn't deny it as well. And, look, to be fair, I give him credit for being very concerned by what was happening on the border. We all know 100,000 or so Americans a year are killed by fentanyl.

But the other challenge we have on the border is just 2.1 million people crossed last year. Many, many more escaped. Of those that crossed, over 15,000 are non-citizen criminals with convictions. We have hundreds or at least over 100 on the terror watch list. I mean, there's just a lot of concern across the country, and certainly in the Republican Party, my party, about border security. So, Trump is tapping into all these things.

And his view was, if we could knock out the cartels with missiles, then that would take care of the criminal problem. And as you noted, I think, he thought nobody would find out. But, of course, it wouldn't. That would have been an act of war. But we need Mexico's cooperation to deal with the border problem and not their antagonism.

HARLOW: Yes, we can't gloss over it. You just said that would be an act of war.

Let me move to the war between Israel and Hamas. We know now that Secretary of State Antony Blinken is going to go to the region next week. And there's big concern about a broadening of the war, given what is happening in the Red Sea, but also what is happening in the north of Israel and Hezbollah in Lebanon. Benny Gantz, who's a member of the war cabinet, says the stopwatch for a diplomatic solution is running out. Do you think a wider regional war is inevitable?

ESPER: Maybe not inevitable, but certainly possible. Maybe it's been unreported, but I think there have been near-daily clashes on the northern Israeli border with Lebanon, with Hezbollah specifically. And so that's been persistent.

We've had over 100 attacks on U.S. forces in Iraq, in Syria and elsewhere. We've had over 100 missiles or drones launched by the Yemenis and toward the Red Sea and Bab al-Mandeb. So, look, yes, it could open up very quickly. And I'm surprised it hasn't this far, but you hear those drums beating a little bit now louder than they have in the past.

HARLOW: Every time we have a representative from the Israeli government on or IDF, consistently, the message is we have to eliminate Hamas, but I think it was very interesting what French President Emmanuel Macron said earlier this month about what eliminating Hamas really looks like. [07:15:03]

He said, I think that we have reached a moment when the Israeli authorities will have to define more clearly what their final objective is. The total destruction of Hamas, does anyone think that is possible? If it's that, the war will last ten years. Do you agree with him?

ESPER: Well, look, it depends on how you define it. If you define it, eliminate Hamas is killing every fighter and killing the ideology, no, I don't believe that's possible.

In the early days, we talked a lot more about using the word defeat. And in military terms, at least United States military, that means eliminating their offensive capability and the ability to regenerate it. And in this case, if you define it as going after their top leaders, getting rid of their munitions and their armaments, and then, of course, in my view, you have to get rid of the logistical support system, which is the tunnels, then, yes, I think that's possible. They could do that. That would allow them some control.

I said on many occasions as well, you have to cut off that supply chain of money and arms and munitions coming from Iran as well. I mean, that's the bigger challenge that I think Israel and the west needs to face up to.

HARLOW: But the reality is so many efforts to defeat Hamas have not proved fruitful. I mean -- and you have Hamas leaders and media advisors saying their goal is to have sort of a permanent state of war on all borders with Israel. That's the question is, can you defeat that ideology, or as more and more civilians are killed in Gaza in this war, does it embolden others to join the Hamas effort?

ESPER: Yes. Look, you can't defeat the ideology. And it's shared not just by Hamas, but by others. But in the past, since Hamas has taken over Gaza in '07 or so, we've been through these cycles where Hamas conducts an attack, Israel responds, it lasts for a few days, then everybody calls it quits.

I think this is why Benjamin Netanyahu and his government are so committed right now to say once and for all we're done, we need to defeat Hamas, and we don't want this to happen again because we know Hamas has said repeatedly that they want to repeat October 7th over and over and over again.

So, I think that's why the game has changed. It was changed so dramatically with the horrors of October 7th that Israel says we're not going to go through this again, which is why you see them persisting in their attack into Southern Gaza at this point.

HARLOW: Former Secretary of Defense Mark Esper thank you very much.

ESPER: Thank you, Poppy.

MATTINGLY: Well ahead, why a civil rights leader says he was kicked out of a movie theater while trying to watch the Color Purple. And Nikki Haley has been said to, quote, play it safe as she enters the final stretch of her campaign before primary voting begins. Did that contribute to this viral moment?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What was the cause of the United States Civil War?

NIKKI HALEY, REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, don't come with an easy question, right?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

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[07:25:00]

MATTINGLY: International calls for restraint are growing this morning after Israel has continued to promise to continue its war against Hamas for, quote, many more months. Recently surfaced video appears to show Palestinian men and at least two children stripped down to their underwear and detained by the IDF in Gaza.

Now, CNN is unable to verify when the video was shot, but geolocation data shows it was filmed in a stadium of Gaza City. The IDF has not responded to CNN's request for comment on that video.

The incident, though, resembles an account shared by a Palestinian poet and writer, Mosab Abu Toha, in a new piece published in The New Yorker. Abu Toha claims he was forced to complete the undress at gunpoint before being detained and interrogated by the IDF earlier this month. He was trying to cross the Rafah border with his wife and three kids, including his three-year-old son, Mustafa, who's a U.S. citizen. Abu Toha said he was terrorized and beaten while being questioned about whether he had ties to Hamas.

The well-known poet and writer has studied at Syracuse and Harvard and denies repeatedly any ties to Hamas or terrorism.

The IDF gave a statement to CNN noting that it's a partial response and that they are still looking into the allegations, saying in part, during IDF operations in the Gaza Strip a number of individuals were detained on the basis of intelligence indicating significant communications between them and terror organizations in the strip out of suspicion of affiliation with terror organizations there.

Mosab Abu Toha was found to be mistakenly identified in this regard and was thus released after questioning. The individuals detained are treated in accordance with international law.

Mosab Abu Toha joins us now live from Cairo, Egypt. We appreciate your time.

And I want to start with what the IDF says in their statement because what they don't discuss in the statement is what transpired between when you were detained and when they realized or came to the conclusion it was a mistake and you were released. You describe it in visceral detail in your piece. Can you tell people what happened?

MOSAB ABU TOHA, MOSAB ABU TOHA, PALESTINIAN POET: Well, I was evacuating the north of Gaza, which Israel has been repeatedly asking people to evacuate. And I was going to the north, to the southern part of the Gaza Strip in the hope of reaching the Rafah border crossing with my wife and three kids.

But when I arrived at the checkpoint that Israel created on the Salah al-Din Street, which was called a safe passage for Palestinians trying to evacuate to the southern part, I was called by description by an Israeli soldier who was about 150 meters away from the line. He was asking me to drop my son and drop my backpacks and join the line of the other people who were called before.

I was later called by name, and then I was taken to another area with two Israeli soldiers pointing their guns at me, and they were asking me to undress. I took off all my clothes, my sweater and pants, and then I only had my boxer shorts on. And then the two soldiers were looking at each other and chatting in Hebrew, and then he said, continue, take off the boxer shorts.

And then I looked at the other person next to me, the Palestinian person next to me. He was also detained with me. And we were surprised that they are asking us to strip of all our clothes. So, we had nothing to do but to take off our boxer shorts.

[07:30:02]

And then when I was naked for the first time in life in front of strangers, I was asked to turn around.