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Palestinian Poet Details Time In Israeli Custody; Haley Does Not Mention Slavery When Asked About The Civil War; AMC Apologizes To Civil Rights Leader Kicked Out Of Theater. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired December 28, 2023 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:30:00]

MOSAB ABU TOHA, PALESTINIAN POET DETAINED BY IDF (via Webex by Cisco): To do but to take off our boxer shorts. And then, when I was naked for the first time in my life in front of strangers, I was asked to turn around. So I did what they asked for. And then I was handcuffed and I was blindfolded, and then I was taken to a very close area and I was interrogated.

I introduced myself in English and I asked them to listen to what I am saying. I was just returning to Gaza 10 days before October 7. And I told him about everything about me and he said, "You are a Hamas activist and we stopped your wife and your three children." So he was threatening me with my family. He stopped my wife and three children at the next checkpoint.

I told him, "Do you have any evidence? Any proof that I am a Hamas activist or a photograph, a video?" I said, "A like image showing anything?" And then he slapped me across the face. He said, "You give proof." And I was wondering how could I -- how could I give you proof that I am not Hamas?

And then I was taken -- I was beaten. I was bad violently treated along with other young people like me. And there was someone next to me. He was crying and said, "Please, I want to return -- go back to my pregnant wife and my little daughter." So that was part of the -- my day during the first day.

And then I was -- I found myself in an Israeli detention center. Later, I knew it was (INAUDIBLE). And later I was interrogated by an Israeli captain. I told him about myself -- everything. And it was not a tough day for me but for other people it was tough.

And then he said, "OK, we are going -- we are going to verify the information you gave us." And then two hours later, an Israeli soldier said, "We are sorry about the mistake. You are going home." And then I said, "Are you serious about that? I mean, I'm going to be with my family and kids?" And he said, "I'm serious."

And then I let a thought to myself. I mean, how many mistakes have the Israeli army committed against other Palestinians? And I thought that my quick release was -- I think was an example of the pressure that was put by major news outlets -- other medias. But I'm thinking about there are many hundreds of other people like me who are innocent who have been living in Gaza. Who have been unable to leave Gaza to study or to visit their relatives, et cetera, who had been born in Gaza for -- during a hellish situation.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN ANCHOR: Right.

TOHA: And these people do not have families (PH) like I had.

So this has to end. This is what I think right now.

MATTINGLY: And to that point, you published a public letter to President Biden on Christmas, writing quote, "I'm not asking you in this letter to impose a two-state solution nor am I asking for the bringing back of the lives of the children and their families. I am asking you as a power to impose a ceasefire for peace, and for children, and for humanity."

When you look at the responses of world leaders up to this point, what do you think has been missing?

TOHA: Well, I mean, what is missing is that they are not listening to what the people in the world are asking for. Many people went out in the streets and they asked for a ceasefire not because they want Hamas but because they want to save the lives of the children in Gaza. I think this war is not against Israel and Hamas; it's a war between Israel and the people in Gaza.

If you look at the numbers there are about 21,000 people who have been killed -- half of them children. And there is one thing that is missing in this discourse. Half of the population in Gaza that are more than two million people -- half of them are children. So after each airstrike, after each artillery shelling, half of the people who are killed are children, not to mention the mothers, et cetera.

So they need to stop this war to protect the children, and then to find a just solution to the Palestinian case. It's not only about October 7. I was wounded when I was 16 in 2009 and no one ever talked about that. And there are -- I lost a lot of friends in my childhood --

MATTINGLY: Right.

TOHA: -- but no one talked about this.

I mean, I didn't start two months ago or three months ago. It has been going for a long time and we need to find a just solution to the Palestinian case.

MATTINGLY: There's a -- there's a line in your story that really stood out to me. You wrote that as the details began to emerge on October 7, quote, "Some Gazans seemed excited and happy about the attack but many of us were perplexed and scared. Although Gaza has been devastated by" -- in your words -- "Israeli occupation, I could not justify the atrocities committed against Israeli civilians. There is no reason to kill anyone like that." When you look to the future -- you've been talking about it -- what is your sense of what Gazans want in the future? Do people want Hamas to be involved in governance going forward? What is the future?

[07:35:00]

TOHA: Well, the future -- I mean, the problem I think with Gaza is not about only Hamas. I mean, it's -- there are lots of issues. There is the Palestinian local rift between Hamas and (INAUDIBLE) itself. And Israel is benefitting from this political rift.

I mean, what people in Gaza really want -- they want to have peace. They want to have their own airport, their own seaport. They need to travel when they want wherever they want. They need to be respected outside of Gaza. We are not respected inside Gaza because we are being killed every time from the sea, from the -- from the sky, from the land.

But we are not even respected outside of Gaza. When you are trying to go to an embassy -- for example, I tried to go to the American embassy in Jerusalem multiple times and the Israelis denied my permit. And they want -- they don't want us to live in Gaza and they don't want us to leave Gaza to study or to learn about other people outside.

So people -- I mean, people in Gaza are asking for jobs. They are asking for a decent life. They are asking to have their own border crossing to control the border crossing in Gaza. They need to -- I mean, this is -- this has been one of my dreams as a child. I still have dreams of seeing Gaza from a plane window and see -- and I have -- I still have dreams of seeing Gaza from a distant ship. I need to see all these things.

But you are -- I mean, Israel continues to kill us not during this war but even before that. So why people were concerned because Israel has killed thousands of Palestinians without Hamas invading Palestinian neighboring towns and cities. But now with the scene that we have seen on October 7, I thought that Israel would have an excuse -- an excuse to kill more and more people, and mostly children. So children and civilians have been the victims for a long time.

MATTINGLY: Yeah, and obviously, the IDF says that they're responding in the October 7 attack and Hamas is intermingled with the civilian population. But the scale of the death toll is certainly something that is not in dispute. The IDF also saying they made a mistake when they detained you. It is a very important personal story in The New Yorker.

Mosab Abu Toha, we appreciate your time. Thank you.

TOHA: Thank you so much. Thank you.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: A very important story. What an interview.

All right. Well, coming up, when asked about what caused the Civil War, Nikki Haley gave a pretty long answer but left out one crucial word -- slavery. She's getting pushback on it this morning. (COMMERCIAL)

[07:40:48]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NEW HAMPSHIRE VOTER: What was the cause of the United States Civil War?

NIKKI HALEY, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, don't come with an easy question, all right? I mean, I think the cause of the Civil War was basically how government was going to run. The freedoms and what people could and couldn't do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: That was, of course, candidate Nikki Haley answering a New Hampshire voter's question about the cause of the Civil War. Her answer, at least according to the voter, not well received.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NEW HAMPSHIRE VOTER: In 2023, it's astonishing to me that you answer that question without mentioning the word slavery.

HALEY: What do you want me to say about slavery?

NEW HAMPSHIRE VOTER: No problem. You've answered my question. Thank you.

HALEY: Next question.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: President Biden responding overnight, simply writing on social media, quote, "It was about slavery."

HARLOW: Our next guest recently spent five days following Nikki Haley's campaign in Iowa. This morning, she writes for The New York Times, quote, "Haley's latest remarks were in keeping with the way she and most of her Republican rivals have toed the line on race and racism on the 2024 presidential trail, downplaying the nation's sordid racial history and portraying structural racism and prejudice as challenges of the past."

She also notes in her report, quote, "Haley, who governed a state at the heart of the Confederacy, has a particularly complicated record on issues of race."

Joining us now is Jazmine Ulloa, national politics reporter for The New York Times. What a -- what a perfect piece and report and person to talk to given these latest comments. I really appreciate you coming in.

I was asking earlier if this is symbolic, Jazmine, of Nikki Haley often, critics point out, trying to have it all ways with all people. JAZMINE ULLOA, NATIONAL POLITICS REPORTER, THE NEW YORK TIMES: Yes.

This is actually a very good example of what -- of the very thing that has taken Nikki Haley this far. What has allowed her to climb but what could also become -- could very well become her liability.

On the trail, she often -- she's trying to speak to a very broad coalition of Republicans. People who support the former president, people who don't. She's also trying to appeal to moderates and Independents.

And so, at times on the trial she sounds like a traditional conservative with a message tightly focused on national spending and national security. But at other times, she also echoes former President Trump in how she talks about, for example, anti-immigrant rhetoric and on the issue of race and racism. These are issues she's struggled with in the past.

MATTINGLY: Jazmine, do you get a sense that this is kind of a survive and advance moment. You keep this going until it becomes a one-on-one race with Donald Trump, if that happens, and then she makes a hard pivot and attacks, or is this what she's -- the plan kind of through as long as she lasts and until she hopes she's the nominee?

ULLOA: Yeah, that's very difficult to say. I mean, what I've seen from her so far is that she's been a very steady and stable candidate. Actually, a story like the one last night is rare for her. She rarely talks to reporters. She plays it safe on the trail. She plays it safe when talking about the former president. So this is actually a rare moment for her.

So, in some ways, she actually stuck to her message, which has been reducing the size of the federal government. Granting -- you know, leaving it up to states to decide these really difficult issues like abortion. So -- and so that's in keeping with how she's campaigned.

But at the same time, it shows how she isn't really tackling these hard issues and how voters are saying well, when it comes to these difficult issues where do her convictions really lie.

HARLOW: Yeah. I think that word convictions is so perfect, right? It's what do you believe? And you point out in your reporting this morning that when she ran for election in-state in 2010 and 2014 she rejected talk of removing the Confederate flag. Then after the mass shooting at the historically Black church in Charleston in 2015, she pushed for it.

But even the way that she has spoken about it since raises eyebrows about conviction. What do you believe?

[07:45:00]

Listen to this exchange. She was talking to Glenn Beck.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HALEY: These 12 people were amazing people. They loved their church. They loved their family. They loved their community. And here is this guy that comes out with his manifesto holding the Confederate flag and had just hijacked everything that people thought of. And people saw it as service and sacrifice and heritage, and -- but once he did that there was -- there was no way to overcome it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: And that was in 2019.

What are your thoughts when you listen to that and look at how she's answering questions like that one last night?

ULLOA: Yes. So what I've heard from state lawmakers in her own state about that moment -- you know, she drew national acclaim for taking down the flag and they say that she was courageous in doing that. There are other state lawmakers who say we wouldn't have gotten to that vote without her.

HARLOW: Um-hum.

ULLOA: This is something that the state -- but it's also -- this is also an issue that the state has to decide and state lawmakers had actually already started efforts to remove the flag. So there's other state lawmakers who say well, she was actually just really seizing on the moment.

What I can say is on the trail when she talks about this moment, it's always really powerful when audiences -- I've seen people leave just nodding their heads in approval.

And that's why, again, last night was a little bit out of -- out of step for her because when she has faced difficult questions about divisiveness there have been times where she has stepped up and talked about this moment as way -- as an example of how she's been able to bridge divides in the past.

MATTINGLY: Jazmine, it's certainly scientific but when you're on the trail with a candidate sometimes you can feel it. You can feel the momentum we're all talking about because you see it in polls in New Hampshire or the message is resonating.

When you're at her events what's the -- what's the feeling that you get when people are there?

ULLOA: Yeah. So, especially in the last few weeks you've -- we've definitely seen more energy. There's -- her crowds have gotten bigger. There's just more interest. Now, whether she's convincing minds, that's a different question. But from what I've heard from people is that people usually like what she has to say. People leave satisfied.

I spoke with one man who was a Trump supporter at the -- at the beginning of the -- of her town hall. She -- he said, "You know, I'm only here because of my wife and I'm 100 percent with Trump." And then afterward, he actually tracked me down and said, "She said some things tonight that really changed my mind. I thought she was a warmonger and now I know she's -- I heard about her husband. She's a military spouse. I actually like what she had to say. I'm going to seriously consider her. I now know she's not against war."

But at the same time, I think there is a little bit of disappointment. I do pick up on disappointment from other voters who would like her to go more aggressively. To hit former President Trump more aggressively, particularly on questions -- you know, she's gotten questions about whether he poses a danger to the nation's democracy or why she raised her hand at that first debate and saying that she would support him regardless of whether he is convicted in his criminal cases. And those are a little bit harder to say where, ultimately, their votes are going to go.

HARLOW: Jazmine Ulloa, thank you. Fascinating reporting. We really appreciate you joining us.

ULLOA: Thank you.

MATTINGLY: Well, this morning, the AMC Theater chain is apologizing to a former civil rights leader after he was kicked out of a showing of "The Color Purple." Why? The details next.

(COMMERCIAL)

[07:52:20]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

Clip from Warner Bros. Pictures "The Color Purple."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: That was, of course, a scene from "The Color Purple" where Sofia, played by actress Danielle Brooks, introduces herself to her father-in-law, Mr.

Now, an instance -- now, in an instance of life imitating art, a 60- year-old civil rights leader says he also got no respect after being kicked out of an AMC Theater in Greenville, North Carolina where that movie was playing. He says he was not allowed to use his own chair, which he takes with him due to a disability.

CNN's Nick Valencia joins us live now from Atlanta. Nick, I have tried to figure out any way to rationalize the police involvement here and haven't yet found it. What exactly happened?

NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know, there seems to be some agreement here, Phil, between Rev. Barber and AMC leadership that this was at the very least handled poorly. Reverend Barber has had some well-documented health problems over the years and as a result, he walks with two canes. And he uses this special chair to ease discomfort everywhere he goes where -- in order to sit down.

Well, he brought that chair to the screening of "The Color Purple" in a small theater in Greenville, South Carolina (sic) with his 90-year- old mother and he was confronted by the AMC staff. Eventually, an argument ensued. Police were called. Ultimately, Rev. Barber decided to leave voluntarily and no charges were filed, but he is clearly upset about this.

He said he tried to give the staff some grace but they were refusing to do the right thing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REV. WILLIAM BARBER, CIVIL RIGHTS ACTIVIST, KICKED OUT OF AMC THEATER: I've been on Broadway. I've been to the White House with this chair. They called an officer of the law. The AMC Theater in Greenville, North Carolina -- they would not make amends to simply do the right thing. But we'll deal with it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VALENCIA: Barber is dealing with it and he plans to hold a press conference to talk about what happened tomorrow.

Meanwhile, AMC leadership is responding. They're apologizing for it in a statement. In part -- we'll read part of that to you. "AMC's chairman and CEO Adam Aron has already telephoned Rev. Barber and plans to meet with him in person in Greenville, North Carolina next week to discuss both this situation and the good works Bishop Barber is engaged in throughout the years. We're also reviewing our policies with other theater teams to help ensure that situations like this do not occur again."

And just very quick on the AMC Theaters' policies, they do have a written policy that says if you are bringing a specialized chair or something like that you need to notify the theater in advance. Reverend Barber did not do that -- Phil.

MATTINGLY: All right, Nick Valencia. Thank you.

HARLOW: Ahead, more on the decision that could come down at any moment. Could Maine become the second state to remove Donald Trump from its ballot?

[07:55:00]

(COMMERCIAL)

HARLOW: Well, an update on a story we told you about yesterday. The 911 call has just been released of an Indiana man who was trapped inside his truck for nearly a week but found alive. Matt Reum was pinned under a bridge for six days but luckily, two fishermen who were scouting a new location -- they suddenly noticed something shiny in the distance. They went to see what it was and they were stunned to find Matt inside alive.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's a car that's been here since Wednesday and there's a person inside of it. He's still alive, too. You guys might need the Jaws of Life to open the door. His truck's pretty wrecked.

They're on their way, buddy. They're on their way. (END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: We also have an update on his condition. There he is smiling. He has several broken bones and injuries to his legs that could require surgery. But he says no matter how things -- how tough things get there is a light at the end of the tunnel.