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Pro-Iran Militia Base Struck in Baghdad; Hagar Chemali is Interviewed about Israeli Strikes; Johnson Highlights Migrant Crisis; Study on Cognitive Impact of Sleep Disruption. Aired 6:30-7a ET

Aired January 04, 2024 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[06:30:00]

CAITLIN DICKERSON, STAFF WRITER, "THE ATLANTIC": And for Haley.

AUDIE CORNISH, CNN ANCHOR: Caitlin, stay with us.

Alice, Bakari, stay with us as well.

Now, you guys can all watch Ron DeSantis and Nikki Haley in the CNN Republican presidential town halls tonight starting at 9:00 p.m. Eastern.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN ANCHOR: We have new information on the deadly explosion in Iran and who the U.S. believes was involved, as fears grow the Israel/Hamas conflict could mushroom into a wider war.

CORNISH: And a sliver of hope in the rubble of Japan's deadly earthquake. Three days after the magnitude 7.5 quake hit, rescuers save a survivor trapped under a collapsed home. They use cloth and blankets to carry him out alive. Still, the death toll in Japan has now risen to 78.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MATTINGLY: Well, we're following breaking news out of Iraq this morning. The pro-Iranian militia base was struck in Baghdad killing a top commander and another fighter. Now, at this point, it is unclear what hit the base and who ordered the strike. Iran-backed militias have been ramping up attacks in U.S. forces in Iraq and Syria since mid-October.

CNN's Paula Hancocks joins us live now from the Middle East.

Paula, what do we know about this and how it fits into a broader instability in the region right now?

PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Phil, the latest information we have from a source within the base itself is that it was a drone attack. Now we do have those images coming into us just now showing the aftermath of the strike itself.

[06:35:03]

We're being told from within the base that one commander was killed, another fighter also killed.

And as you say, this does come as we have seen a significant step up of attacks against U.S. forces in both Iraq and Syria by these pro- Iran militia, many of them based in Iraq. Now, this particular one, we understand, was in eastern Baghdad. And we have seen, just last month for example, U.S. forces did carry out a retaliatory strike against one of these pro-Iranian militias that were carrying out these attacks.

Now, at this point there is no claim of responsibility. We have not been able to get any comment as to who may have carried this out. But it really does add to a number of attacks that we have seen in recent days and weeks since, of course, those Hamas attacks in Israel on October 7th. It does add to the concern that this could spill over into wider conflict in the region.

Phil.

MATTINGLY: All right, Paula Hancocks, thank you.

CORNISH: The strike in Baghdad follows a series of flashpoints in the Middle East, including twin blasts near the burial site of slain Iranian military commander Qassem Soleimani yesterday. This morning, the death toll has been revised to 84 and a senior U.S. official told reporters the blast, quote, looks like a terrorist attack. State Department officials say they have no reason to believe that Israel was involved.

MATTINGLY: But that blast, or those blasts, came a day after a senior Hamas leader was killed in a suburb of Beirut in a blast that U.S. officials told CNN was carried out by Israel. Now, Israel has not confirmed or denied its involvement, but Hamas and the militant group Hezbollah, which controls the area, blamed Israel and it vowed revenge for the Beirut attack.

Joining us now to discuss, Hagar Chemali, former spokesperson for the U.S. Mission to the United Nations and host of "Oh My World" web series.

I think the concern right now, given that for months U.S. officials have been desperate trying to keep any type of expansion of hostilities in check, is that we're on the brink of it. Is that fair?

HAGAR CHEMALI, FORMER SPOKESPERSON FOR U.S.. MISSION TO THE U.N.: Well, it -- listen, it looks like that. When you have an Iranian warship going to the Red Sea, when you have expanding hostilities or blast, as you've - as you've noted, attacks of that kind, when you have the terrorist attack in Iran, when you've got attacks happening on different Iranian military groups in Iraq and you've got, of course, the - this strike that you saw in Beirut, it feels like that. And I can see why it seems like that. But for this to escalate into something that's a much larger regional war would actually require a much bigger step. And that's -- what you see really is more tit for tat attacks. You see these Iran-backed groups, in large part Iran- backed groups. I don't think what happened in Iran, the terrorist attack there, was an Iran-backed group. Obviously, I think it's a different group, but we'll get to that.

What you're seeing is largely Iran-backed groups pursue certain attacks where they're basically - where they're making trouble. They are troublemakers. They are terrorists. They are trying to take advantage of an unstable situation and make -- and provoke and cause further instability. And they're trying to push U.S. presence out of the region. That's ultimately their goal. And they're trying to - but they know that they can't take on the United States. And so they're going to do everything they can short of igniting a larger war. And so is the U.S. You can see the administration in its response only pursuing specific targeted attacks in response to provocations and aggressions in order to not spark something much wider.

CORNISH: Hagar, you said a nugget of something there that we'll get back to. Who do you think could be behind some of this?

CHEMALI: Well, when I saw this blast, the first thing I thought was that it was -- it looked like an attack that ISIS would pursue. And the reason I believe that is, number one, it has zero markings of something a state actor would do. A state actor, if they're going to pursue something, it will likely be something by a drone or by a - by some kind of airstrike, not something that's a terrorist attack when you have an explosion targeted at a large gathering of civilians. And, to me, that looked like ISIS, not only for that reason, but it's because we've seen a pattern of similar attacks pursued by ISIS in Afghanistan where whenever they see gathering of civilians, perhaps it's a wedding or a funeral, they also pursue attacks because it maximizes the fatalities by pursuing things like that where you've got groups of individuals together, but also because ISIS has pursued attacks in Iran before in 2022. They pursued an attack again against a Shite tribe (ph) that killed 15 (ph) people. And among other attacks. So, that was my first thought.

MATTINGLY: Yes, and it's an important point, both on the Afghanistan analogue and also just the general -- reminding people the Sunni Shia (ph) split that has long been the case and certainly exists there.

Can I swing back around to what we were talking about in the first question, proportionality, which is kind of the buzz word that you hear from administration officials, that the back and forth you're talking about.

[06:40:03]

Proportionality makes sense until it doesn't. What -- is -- what's your concern in terms of what would actually trigger, what would cross the line, what mistake should be made in this moment that could engulf a wider war?

CHEMALI: Well, you have -- if you were to put the terrorist groups on a spectrum, if you will, some of them think like terrorist groups, like Hamas and ISIS, which means that they have nothing to lose and their one goal is to pursue as much destruction as possible. And then some of them think more like as though they're between terrorist group and state actor, like Hezbollah. Hezbollah, while it is very heavily armed and much more sophisticated than those other two groups, they - they -- they enjoy support in Lebanon and they control a lot of Lebanon. Part of the reason there's no president there is because of Hezbollah. They control the airport. They are now increasingly controlling the financial system. And by inviting the assured destruction that would come from Israel, they would definitely lose that support.

And so even though I expect a strong retaliation from Hezbollah and Israel, and certain expects that, I also don't see them doing something that would cause a massive war. Now, again, the issue you have, and to get to your question, is that when you've got tensions this high and all these militants and terrorist groups getting involved, it -- you risk a miscalculation where you could - where you could have massive group of deaths, for example, of U.S. soldiers at an air base. If you've got more than -- right now they've been injured. But what if a group of them end up getting killed. Well, then the U.S. is going to go more on the offensive. And that could spark things and spiral downward for example. And the same would go if Hezbollah did a strike in Israel that caused massive damage.

MATTINGLY: Yes, it's a very dicey time, but a really, really helpful walk-through of kind of all these disparate elements that are going on right now.

Hagar Chamali, thank you.

CORNISH: Now on to the border battle that could lead to a showdown over government funding. What House Speaker Mike Johnson is threatening to do after his visit to the border.

MATTINGLY: And a nightmare for night owls. What poor sleep in your 30s or - uh, oh -- or 40s could mean for you a decade later.

Stay with us.

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[06:46:20]

CORNISH: New this morning the Justice Department is now suing Texas over its controversial immigration law that gives local law enforcement the authority to arrest migrants. The lawsuit argues the state cannot run its own immigration system.

Meanwhile, House Speaker Mike Johnson and more than 60 conservative lawmakers traveled to Eagle Pass, Texas, Wednesday. They watched as a group of migrants crossed the Rio Grande River. December was the highest monthly surge in crossings since 2000. Johnson wants support for his version of border legislation and continued to criticize President Biden on CNN's "JAKE TAPPER."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA): We can seal the border. We could do it overnight. The president has the existing authority under existing federal law to do that. And he refuses to do it.

And what we see here is absolute mayhem.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: Back with us, Alice Stewart, Bakari Sellers and Caitlin Dickerson.

Caitlin, can you just give us an idea about this data on border crossings. Like, how high is it? What's the context here?

DICKERSON: So, I think it's important to remember, and I always remind people, border numbers are going to fluctuate. December tends to be really low because of the weather, because of the holidays. So, I think it is significant that there was an increase in border crossings in December. But we really can't get too fixated on the month-to-month differences because they're going to change really dramatically.

I think the bigger picture here is that Speaker Johnson's trip to the border, you know, Greg Abbott's newest policy changes in Texas, they show that the Republican Party, kind of at every level, is escalating its fight on immigration. And so the question is, how are the Democrats going to respond, starting with President Biden. You know, there's been very little in the way of an alternative path forward, put -- made clear by Democrats. And so, you know, Republicans are owning the conversation. And Americans who are concerned about these numbers overall, they're listening to Republicans because that's all that the conversation really holds at this point.

CORNISH: Bakari Sellers, can you give a sense of what you think the Biden administration policy is at this point? We had a conversation with them early this week and they were very fixated on how the Republicans were blocking what they wanted. They didn't give us a sense of what they wanted.

BAKARI SELLERS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: So, yes, I mean, I think - I think it's pretty clear. And I think the two parties have set out in ways that make it extremely clear. The Republican Party does nothing but take pictures at the border. They do gimmicks like Greg Abbott of fly and dehumanize and traffic individuals to cities who are led by Democratic mayors. You contrast that with the fact that you have Kamala Harris, who actually visited the epicenter of where many of these immigrants are coming from, trying to figure out how we can help remedy and alleviate the cause of the violence, of the abuse that many of these immigrants are fleeing from their native countries. That's first. That's the source.

The second thing is, trying to make sure that we strengthen the border by adding more funding for security and border patrol.

The one thing, which is probably one of the more important aspects of this, is actually adding more individuals down there to process individuals more quickly and so that we can process asylum seekers, so that we can process individuals at the border with some speed and solarity (ph).

But this has to be a bipartisan effort. Mike Johnson wants to go to the border, go to Eagle Pass and take pictures, but I don't see him calling Chuck Schumer, I don't see him calling Hakeem Jeffries and saying, look, let's sit down and come to some solution in the best interest of the country in some bipartisan fashion. They just want to stand on little boxes and take pictures. And it's infuriating.

MATTINGLY: Bakari, can I just quickly follow on that, though. What Governor Abbott has done, and what you're talking about the House Republicans doing, has it not, to some degree, even if you think it's cynical or wrong, worked?

[06:50:07]

I mean it feels like the overtone (ph) window has shifted with Democrats' willingness to accept more hardline immigration proposals. The national conversation on this issue and in polling, I think, is more elevated than it traditionally is.

SELLERS: Yes, I have a - I love you. I have a problem with the word "worked," because they're using real live individuals here.

MATTINGLY: Yes.

SELLERS: They're using real families here. Putting them on planes. They don't know where they're going. I mean it's literally the definition of trafficking. As somebody who actually is a criminal defense lawyer.

But you're right in a certain sense in that Democrats, for a long period of time, Republicans take pictures, Democrat had had their head in the sand. And, yes, it's a major issue. It's a lot like crime. Alice and I have talked about the issue of crime, particularly in midterm elections, and Democrats acting like it was a non-existent issue for many Americans. This is an issue.

And, yes, to your point, I don't know if it's working because they're using humans, women, babies as pawns, but it is now on the radar for many Americans. And now, thank God, on the radar for Democrats as well.

CORNISH: Alice, you hear Bakari saying that this is just kind of a photo op for Republicans, but can you give us a sense, what is the strategy we're looking at here from Mike Johnson?

ALICE STEWART, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Look, it's certainly to call attention to what is clearly a crisis at the border. And it's important to say the numbers. The numbers are speaking for themselves. Three hundred thousand migrant encounters at the border in December. That's historic numbers.

And to the -- to the issue of Republicans going down there and let's hear what they have to say, but see what there is to see there. And we're seeing record numbers come in.

And to the - to the issue of Democrats also are recognizing this. As the Texas governor has sent many of these migrants to other cities, we're seeing Democratic mayors of New York, of Chicago, and of Denver, putting up their hands says, look, this is a problem. We need federal assistance. And this could really impact our cities. So, we're now seeing Democrats on board.

What Speaker Johnson and these Republicans wanted to do is shine a light on this problem and what they see as an unmitigated disaster by the Biden administration and say it's important to - let's revisit what we passed in HR-2, which is more funding for Customs and Border Patrol officials, revamping the efforts to build the wall and cutting down the numbers of releasing these migrants into this country. And they had problems with some of the Biden policies of humanitarian parole and widespread asylum.

So, look, I think there are good ideas on both sides. The key, as Bakari says, both sides need to come together and have bipartisan conversations. We're seeing some progress of that over in the Senate with Republicans and Democrats. The goal is, let's address the problem and let's work together to find a solution because the time to pay the bills is coming up and we need to get an answer.

CORNISH: Alice Stewart, Bakari Sellers, Caitlin Dickerson, thanks so much.

MATTINGLY: Well, Donald Trump appeals to the Supreme Court to get back on the Colorado primary ballot. The main arguments his legal team is making.

CORNISH: And new revelations in the Jeffrey Epstein case. Hundreds of documents are unsealed and name powerful figures.

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[06:57:38]

MATTINGLY: Well, if you toss and turn in your sleep - a beautiful view of New York, by the way - we may have some bad news for you. It may be another thing that will keep you up at night. A new study finds that sleep disruptions in your 30s and 40s could have a big impact on your brain - your brain health as much as a decade later.

CORNISH: CNN medical correspondent Meg Tirrell joins us now to explain.

Meg, give me the depressing news that the researchers have found.

MATTINGLY: (INAUDIBLE). Yes.

MEG TIRRELL, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it's never - never good news to do a sleep study at 6:55 in the morning on a morning show.

What's interesting about this study is that they looked at people in midlife. Usually, these studies look at people in older age and the effects on cognition. And this study looked at about 500 participates who were an average age of 40 when they started this study. And on average at the time they were only getting about six hours of sleep per night.

Now, what they looked at was their sleep duration, their self-reported sleep quality, and also the fragmentation of their sleep, which was measured with a wrist monitor. And then they evaluated their cognition 11 years later using a battery of tests that are similar to how you might evaluate for Alzheimer's disease, for example. And what they found is that there wasn't an association with how long people slept or the quality of their self-reported sleep, buts there was an association with that sleep fragmentation, the number of times you might be waking up in the middle of the night and sometimes maybe not even realizing it. They found that people with the highest sleep fragmentation had two times higher likelihood of performing poorly on cognitive tests 11 years later. And so while they can't prove that there is a causative effect here, that's a pretty strong association to should all be aware of.

Guys.

MATTINGLY: Meg, first, I'm going to take issue with the idea that six hours isn't only six hours. Six hours is a lot of sleep, thank you very much.

In terms of measuring that fragmented sleep, I have a tracker that I wear that kind of tells me when I'm awake or when I'm not. What do specialists say the best way is to not only measure it but also improve it?

TIRRELL: Yes, you know, I talked with two different sleep specialists, Dr. Junjin Lee (ph) at Johns Hopkins, and Dr. Maggie Soltis at Duke. And Dr. Lee was saying there are sleep trackers that you can use that can give you some information. You know, things like the Fitbit, Garmin, Apple Watch, the Oura Ring, the Dreem Band. These can give you some ideas about the trends of your sleep. But Dr. Maggie Solits was telling me, those won't necessarily really specifically measure sleep fragmentation itself. For that you may need more sophisticated tools.

But both of them said the real important thing to try to improve this is to identify any potential underlying causes.

[07:00:00]

If there is something going on like sleep apnea or restless leg syndrome, that is something you need to get treated. Otherwise, of course, all the tips we always hear about for improving your sleep.

Guys.