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Some House Republicans Threaten To Shut Down Government Over Border Issue; Ousted Harvard President Warns Of "Broader War" Against Higher Education; Wayne LaPierre Faces Trial That Could Remove Him As NRA CEO. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired January 04, 2024 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:30:00]

ED LAVANDERA, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: And what we did not hear a lot from yesterday is any kind of willingness to accept immigration reform or to negotiate on that as well -- Phil and Audie.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN ANCHOR: All right, Ed Lavandera. That tees us up perfectly for Lauren Fox who is in Washington, D.C. where there have been bipartisan talks in the Senate across the Capitol from the lawmakers that went down to Eagle Pass yesterday.

Lauren, at this point, especially with red lines being laid out by the speaker and by top Republicans in the House, what is the path forward?

LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. I mean, yesterday was such an incredible confluence of events for House Republicans when it comes to this issue of border security.

They started out the day announcing that they were going to move forward with the impeachment of Alejandro Mayorkas, starting those first hearings next week. Then they were on the border.

And you saw for many of them, including the House Speaker, that they are starting to draw this line that they are not going to accept anything even if Senate negotiators could come up with a bipartisan agreement, which they still remain far away from, that is short of their House-passed immigration bill that they moved through their chamber last May.

Now, we should note that even if they were trying to move that bill again, if it included funding for Ukraine and funding for Israel, it's really unclear where the votes would come from to actually get that across the finish line. Because many of these conservatives who like that bipartisan Ukraine funding -- they wouldn't necessarily be supportive of HR2 and people who are supportive of this House-passed immigration bill would not necessarily support more money for Ukraine.

So it's a really interesting position but it shows you that Mike Johnson, the newly-minted speaker -- he's really starting to stick with these conservatives, making it clear that HR2 is the position for him as well.

Here's what they said yesterday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA): The reason that we've insisted on the provisions of HR2, which is the bill that we passed seven months ago that's been sitting on Chuck Schumer's desk collecting dust -- the reason we've insisted upon that is because each of those provisions work together to secure the border. And what we see here is absolute mayhem.

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY): The only way we're going to get any of this done is in a bipartisan way. When the House clings to HR2 as the only solution, we're not going to get a deal.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOX: But you can imagine the comments coming from House Republicans yesterday really are going to have an impact on Senate negotiators' ability to try to find a path forward. They're already having a hard time finding a compromise. I think House Republicans signaling that they won't accept a deal from the Senate makes that process even harder for them -- Phil and Audie.

MATTINGLY: No question about it.

Lauren Fox, thank you.

AUDIE CORNISH, CNN ANCHOR: Harvard's ousted president, Claudine Gay, issued a new warning about what happened to her.

In a New York Times op-ed Gay writes, quote, "As I depart, I must offer a few words of warning. The campaign against me was about more than one university and one leader. This was merely a single skirmish in a broader war to unravel public faith in pillars of American society. College campuses in our country must remain places where students can learn, share, and grow together, not spaces where proxy battles and political grandstanding take root."

MATTINGLY: Now, Gay's resignation after weeks of sustained pressure is a strategic win and a likely sign of things to come in conservatives' broader war on higher education.

Republican Congresswoman Elise Stefanik tweeting after Gay stepped down, quote, "A reckoning is coming for higher education." The tweet linked to an editorial from the New York Post calling for more of Harvard's board to resign.

CORNISH: And Christopher Rufo, the conservative activist who spearheaded Gay's ouster, bragging in a Wall Street Journal op-ed about the effectiveness of his pressure campaign, laying out the strategy conservatives should follow in the future and highlighting renaissance diplomat Niccolo Machiavelli's controversial writing as a guide to help them wield power and reshape institutions.

Joining us now is CNN political commentator Scott Jennings, and Bakari Sellers. And Bakari, can I just kind of get your reaction to yet another

university chief stepping down?

BAKARA SELLERS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, ATTORNEY, STROM LAW FIRM, AUTHOR, "WHO ARE YOUR PEOPLE?" (via Webex by Cisco): Yeah. I mean, I think this is more nuanced than people give it credit for -- this entire episode.

I -- and I've said this before. I had an immense problem and still do with the way that the university presidents handled the hearing. I think that not being able to answer questions about antisemitism on campus is a huge problem and one that has to be dealt with.

If you are able to set that aside and just talk about the process whereby Professor Gay was ousted from Harvard, you can't help be see the racial animus and the racial overtones in this. You can't help but see the attack on higher education.

And this is even more troubling. You can't help but see the complicity in mainstream media. When you have institutions like Politico yesterday platforming Christopher Rufo, and giving him an interview and giving him a Q&A, that's not journalism.

What we're seeing is that someone -- this wasn't an attack from her peers. This was an attack from other colleagues who had a problem with her utilizing their words without the proper sites because it doesn't rise to the level of plagiarism. It's improper citations.

[07:35:12]

This is -- this is the right-wing -- particularly, right-wing conservative males attacking another Black woman in authority, and people have to call it out as such.

I'm sorry that Claudine Gay had to be that individual. She did not help herself in this cause. But we have to be on high alert at our institutions that this is coming and that day of reckoning is going to be something you have to fight against.

MATTINGLY: Scott, can I build off something Bakari said in the beginning, which is there's nuance here -- which is I feel like you can say plagiarism is bad? The response on genocide at the House hearing was bad. And yet, the credit and I think banging of the drum and declaring of war that some conservatives are pursuing right now is also not exactly great.

SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, FORMER SPECIAL ASSISTANT TO PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH (via Webex by Cisco): Well, I quibble with the phrase "war on higher education." I think it's a war to reform higher education. I think what you see is that conservatives have long had concerns about the way these institutions are being run. Are we actually having academics on these college campuses or is it more about other things?

In the case of Claudine Gay, she happened to become a focal point not because of anything that conservatives did to her but because of what she did to herself. Conservatives didn't invent time travel -- go back in time and make up these plagiarism instances. And conservatives certainly didn't cause her to sit in front of the American people and the U.S. States Congress and fail to unequivocally condemn genocide against the Jewish people. That's not anybody's fault but her own.

I would say in the case of Harvard, this is our national flagship university with all due respect to all the other great universities, including my alma mater, the University of Louisville. But Harvard is our national flagship university.

The president of that university has to be held to the highest standards in terms of both morals and values. In terms of condemning antisemitism. But also on academic rigor. She had a thin academic record to begin with and then when the plagiarism issues popped up I just don't see how it was tenable --

SELLERS: No, no, no.

JENNINGS: -- to ever stay -- to ever say that we have to have -- we can -- we won't hold our president to the same standards that we would hold our students.

CORNISH: Scott, we want to let Bakari jump. Bakari, you wanted to respond?

SELLERS: No, that's -- no, no. That's -- there are two things. One, we actually refer to Harvard as Morehouse of the North. It's not the greatest academic institution on the planet -- that's first.

But number two, this is -- this is when we have to draw the line. I cannot sit here on national TV and allow individuals to attack the credentials, and the academic record, and the professionalism of Claudine Gay to get the position because that's what that -- that's what this conversation has delved into. That this Black woman didn't deserve it in the first place.

And so, I -- when we go down this path of saying that she had a thin academic record to begin with, she was overly qualified. She was just as qualified as the 30 people who came before her who just all happened to be white.

And so, that is the -- when we begin to talk about the racial animus that creeps into this conversation it's yes, you have the hearing and her poor answers -- below poor answers. And yes, you have the issues of citations which were ginned up by the right wing. We can deal with that.

But now we're at this point where they're saying that this Black woman didn't deserve this job in the first place. That DEI is bad. I saw this missive by -- I believe his name is Bill Atkin (PH), which was just full of just -- I can't use the word because it's too early in the morning on live TV but it was full of that.

And when you have people questioning DEI -- when you have people questioning diversity, equity, and inclusion and then question the record of this Black woman, we have to draw the line and say -- see, that is the game that we're talking about being played. She didn't cause that on that part on herself and we have to root that part out of the conversation.

CORNISH: Bakari Sellers and Scott Jennings, thanks so much.

All right. Now --

MATTINGLY: Well, up ahead, new research -- sorry.

CORNISH: No, go ahead.

MATTINGLY: Suggests hearing aids could help you live longer. And our crews are on the ground in the city that was the hardest hit by Japan's 7.5 magnitude earthquake.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HANAKO MONTGOMERY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's hard to believe that the city of Wajima used to be a tourist hotspot. Each year, people would come here to enjoy the seaside town and this market that I'm standing in right now. But after a very powerful earthquake struck Ishikawa prefecture on New Year's Day, thousands were forced to leave.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL)

[07:43:28]

MATTINGLY: A nice morning in New York City. And this morning, a new study shows -- suggests that hearing aids might do more than just help you hear better. This study says that you could even actually live longer.

Our chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta is here to explain. Sanjay, millions of people in the U.S. have hearing loss in one or both ears. They can actually live longer if they wear their hearing aids?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT, HOST, "CHASING LIFE" PODCAST: Yeah, that was the headline of this story.

This is a really interesting study that they looked at, first of all, just quantifying how many people have hearing loss. And the numbers -- they surprised me a little bit. But if you're just looking at adults in the United States, about 30 million adults have hearing loss. The problem is the next line there, which is less than 15 percent of people actually use hearing aids. And there's all kinds of reasons for that, which we can talk about.

But what the study tried to do is say OK, let's follow these people along -- people who have normal hearing versus people who have mild hearing loss, moderate hearing loss -- and see what happens to them over time -- over about 20 years.

And take a look here. Take a look at this graph. The top line of this graph really -- so, 24 percent lower risk of death if you have hearing loss.

But here -- take a look at this graph. The top line is basically normal. That's normal hearing loss. Even with mild hearing loss -- that's the red line in the middle -- there is about a significant increase in mortality there. When you start to get into severe hearing loss -- those are those lower two graphs -- lower two lines -- the mortality goes up even higher. That was pretty remarkable.

[07:45:02]

Now, this is an association, so it's not a cause and effect. But you can see a very clear pattern starting to emerge there. With hearing loss, you increase mortality.

And then, they said OK, what if we add hearing aids into the mix there? If we add hearing aids into the mix, how much of an improvement in mortality can you have? And you saw that number briefly, but about a 24 percent reduction in mortality over 20 years if someone has regular use of hearing aids.

And regular use of hearing aids was really critical here; not intermittent use. Sometimes people use it intermittently. That didn't seem to have as much of an impact on mortality overall as regular use of hearing aids.

So it's the first time I've seen a study quite like this where you've had such an impact using hearing aids alone.

CORNISH: Sanjay, do they know why this might be?

GUPTA: Yeah. You know, it's interesting. People who have hearing loss, Audie -- we know from previous studies they have increases in dementia. They have increases in depression. They have lower physical activity. They are more isolated. They have lower quality of life.

All those things probably play a role here. It's not entirely clear which of those plays the biggest role.

A new study has actually shown people who have hearing loss -- they also have fewer inputs actually going into their brain. And what happens then? Could certain areas of the brain start to not function as well as a result of those decreased inputs? We don't know but it's probably a combination of those factors.

MATTINGLY: Sanjay, can I swing back to something you said in the first answer? What accounts for a low rate of hearing aid use?

GUPTA: Yeah, yeah. Again, this is sort of interesting. I think it differs among different people but there seems to be three primary sort of drivers of this.

For a long time, cost. These things are just expensive. Lack of awareness, and that means people not realizing they have hearing loss. Not getting their hearing actually tested. And then finally, stigma around wearing hearing aids. And I'll tell you, back in 2022, the FDA approved hearing aids to go

over the counter and that might help address the first and third causes there -- cost and stigma. Costs come down as a result of seeing all of these new hearing aids out there on the market. But also, if you look at the hearing aids out there, they're sleeker, they're cooler, they're less obtrusive than they used to be. That might decrease stigma.

The bottom line, get your hearing tested. And this isn't just older people. This is people 20 and older in these studies -- all adults, but 20 and older, and many of them had undiagnosed hearing loss.

MATTINGLY: Yeah. It's a -- it's a fascinating study. I don't know. I'm very struck by the study and all the numbers on that.

CORNISH: Yeah (INAUDIBLE).

MATTINGLY: Dr. Sanjay Gupta, thank you very much.

CORNISH: Thank you.

GUPTA: You got it.

CORNISH: Now, for more than 30 years, the world has been captivated and frustrated by those little falling blocks. Tetris was the first sold to the public by Nintendo in 1989 and has been a video game staple for kids and adults ever since. And now, for the first time in the game's history, it has been beaten.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WILLIS GIBSON, 13-YEAR-OLD WHO BEAT TETRIS: Oh, oh, oh. Oh my God. Oh. Oh my God. I can't feel my fingers.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: That is 13-year-old Tetris prodigy -- I think we can safely say that -- Willis Gibson from Oklahoma, becoming the first human to ever beat the game. Jimmy, on our set, says how do you beat Tetris? We're going to tell you.

Willis, not even half the age of Tetris, had a high score of 999,999 when he reached level 157 on the original NES version of Tetris. Level 157, Jimmy, was long believed to be the kill stream where the game freezes due to its coding, but that couldn't be proven until now. You can see there the game is, indeed, stuck.

Willis has said that it's the simplicity of Tetris that he loves so much and that it's easy to start but hard to master.

Willis, my guy, I think it is safe to say --

CORNISH: A perfect reaction.

MATTINGLY: -- you are the master.

CORNISH: Yeah. Take the win. Gen X rejoice.

Now on to other news.

Jury selection is underway in the trial that could end the career of the NRA's longtime leader. How the allegations are impacting the National Rifle Association as a whole. That's up ahead.

(COMMERCIAL)

[07:53:32]

CORNISH: Shocking video shows the moment that a defendant violently attacked a Las Vegas judge in the courtroom. Judge Mary Kay Holthus was in a -- was in the middle of sentencing Deobra Redden for attempted battery with substantial bodily harm. Then suddenly, Redden runs towards the bench, leaps over it, and begins attacking her. Judge Holthus did suffer injuries and her condition is being monitored.

The court tells CNN Redden's request for probation has been denied.

MATTINGLY: Jury selection is underway in a trial that could actually end the career of the NRA's longtime chief Wayne LaPierre and transform the nation's largest gun rights group. The trial in Manhattan stems from the State of New York's 2020 lawsuit against LaPierre and three other NRA executives, accusing the organization of decades of corruption.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LETITIA JAMES, NEW YORK ATTORNEY GENERAL: They used millions upon millions of dollars from the NRA for personal use, including for lavish trips for themselves and their families, private jets, expensive meals.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: That was New York Attorney General Letitia James in 2020. She is seeking to oust LaPierre who has led the NRA for three decades. Now, the NRA and LaPierre have denied wrongdoing with LaPierre saying at the time, quote, "This is an unconstitutional, premeditated attack aiming to dismantle and destroy the NRA. The NRA is well governed, financially solvent, and committed to good governance."

[07:55:00]

The New York Times highlighted this week some of the revelations in recent years that will be front and center. LaPierre, quote, "...was a regular for more than a decade at a Zegna boutique in Beverly Hills, where he spent nearly $40,000 of NRA money in a single May 2004 outing. He also billed more than $250,000 for travel to, among other places, Palm Beach, Florida, Reno, Nevada, the Bahamas, and Italy's Lake Como."

LaPierre argues these were legitimate business expenses.

The trial comes as the NRA, once a dominant political force, has seen its power decline in recent years. The group raised $213 million in 2022, which is about half of its 2016 total, according to a liberal government watchdog group. And it has lost over a million members since corruption allegations were leveled against LaPierre and others in 2019.

That was first reported by our next guest who has done extensive reporting inside the NRA and some very intra-organization wars that have taken place over the course of the last several years. He is firearms reporter from TheReload.com -- I am a regular reader and longtime subscriber -- Stephen Gutowski. He's also a CNN contributor.

Stephen, I really wanted to talk to you about this just because I remember following you on Twitter going to conventions back in 2019, and seeing just how much the organization had changed, and also how Wayne LaPierre always survived despite the pushback inside the organization.

Is that survivability about to come to an end?

STEPHEN GUTOWSKI, CNN CONTRIBUTOR, FIREARMS REPORTER, THERELOAD.COM: Yeah, it very well may because these allegations in the New York trial are significant and the NRA has mostly sidestepped the efforts to reform the organization. I mean, they've made some changes but LaPierre is at the center of most of these corruption allegations and he is still effectively in charge as you -- as you just laid out there. He's survived until this point but he may any longer.

MATTINGLY: Stephen, in charge of what I think is my biggest question? When I was coming up in Washington they were everything in lobbying. They were everything in campaigns. Not because they had a ton of money -- they did -- but because their membership could be activated and motivated with the snap of a finger. I don't know what they do anymore.

GUTOWSKI: Yeah. I mean, that's actually a very big question. And then the fact that they've seen this tremendous recession in membership does have an impact on their political effectiveness I think. I mean, you saw the first major federal gun law passed in 2022 while they were in the midst of all of this chaos.

And they were a big part of why Donald Trump was able to become president in 2016. They were one of the only outside groups that spent a lot of money on his behalf and motivated their supporters to turn out to vote for him. And with this election coming up where he's still the frontrunner in the Republican Party, the fact that the NRA won't be able to build that sort of movement again is probably going to be very significant.

MATTINGLY: Stephen, do you have a sense of if Wayne LaPierre is no longer the head of the NRA is there somebody who fills that vacuum? Obviously, there was -- there were the battles in 2019 trying to get him out. There were people that were considered potential frontrunners for it. Who would replace him?

GUTOWSKI: Yeah, that's another golden question because LaPierre and his allies have effectively gutted the institution of any opposition. There was -- Chris Cox was the head of their lobbying arm, the

Institute for Legislative Action for years and years and years. He worked closely with the Trump White House when he was in power and he was one of the people ousted by LaPierre and his allies during this fight in 2019. And there really isn't a figure like that left at the NRA. It is very top-heavy at this point with LaPierre being the one who drives pretty much everything that goes on there.

MATTINGLY: Stephen, as this trial begins what are you going to be watching given how closely you've covered all of this?

GUTOWSKI: Yeah. I mean, I'm going to be watching what the ultimate outcome is going to be. The judge has taken off the dissolution of the organization, which is what the attorney general had wanted. She's obviously also been a political opponent of the group. But he's left on the table removing LaPierre and if that happens it's unclear exactly what the NRA will turn out to be after that. I mean, it's shrunk so much but it's still very large. It's still very powerful in the scheme of things when you compare it to other groups in the space.

And with new leadership, perhaps they put in different reforms. They're not spending so much on legal fees and all the costs that come along with that. And maybe they can come back to the point that they had been in the past.

MATTINGLY: Yeah. It's going to be fascinating to watch play out. The membership is four million. It's still a lot of -- a lot of people, and a lot of people who dropped off are still obviously supportive of the causes. So it will be fascinating to see.

Stephen, thanks so much for taking the time. We'll be following this with you throughout the next couple of weeks.

GUTOWSKI: Thank you.

MATTINGLY: And CNN THIS MORNING continues right now.

Well, good morning, everyone. I'm Phil Mattingly with Audie Cornish in New York. Poppy Harlow is off today.

And Nikki Haley and Ron DeSantis -- they're going to.