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Biden to Speak on Democracy; Supreme Court to Discuss Trump's Eligibility; Pistorius Released from Prison. Aired 6:30-7a ET

Aired January 05, 2024 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[06:30:00]

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN ANCHOR: Comes just after ISIS claimed responsibility for a pair of explosions in Iran that killed 84 people and injured hundreds on Wednesday.

AUDIE CORNISH, CNN ANCHOR: Tensions rising on the Korean peninsula this morning after North Korea fired more than 200 artillery rounds in a maritime buffer zone with South Korea that has been a major flashpoint. The rounds were fired near two small islands where more than 7,000 people live. South Korea says no civilians or military were harmed, but calls it a, quote, "provocative act that threatens peace." In response, South Korea's military held its own maritime shooting exercise. Residents were ordered to evacuate during that time.

Also today, President Biden takes his campaign to a Revolutionary War landmark. How he plans to use January 6th to frame this election as a referendum on democracy.

MATTINGLY: And a mother held hostage by Hamas for 50 days opens up about the moment she was kidnapped. She describes the moment she was finally freed with her two daughters in our next hour.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:35:08]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Well, here is the God's truth about January 6, 2021. Close your eyes. Go back to that day. What do you see? Rioters rampaging, waving for the first time inside this Capitol the confederate flag that symbolized the cause to destroy America. And so at this moment, we must decide, what kind of nation are we going to be?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: Today, President Biden will pose that same question to America nearly three years to the day after the Capitol insurrection. He's holding his first campaign of the new year near Valley Forge, Pennsylvania, the critical staging area for George Washington's troops during the Revolutionary War. Biden will lay out one of the core tenants of his campaign, protecting democracy from a potential second Trump term.

MATTINGLY: But, today, some Americans believe January 6th might have been an inside job. In a new "Washington Post"/University of Maryland poll, a quarter of respondents say it's definitely or probably true the FBI organized and encouraged the attack. It is not. That is a lie.

Back with us to discuss, John Avlon, Lee Carter and Errol Louis.

And, Lee, I want to start there because I constantly think through when Biden was talking about democracy in the lead-up to the midterms, he had two major speeches, one on Philadelphia and then one in Washington a couple days before and Democrats were pissed.

LEE CARTER, STRATEGIC COMMUNICATIONS EXPERT: Yes.

MATTINGLY: They were like, nobody wants to talk about this. This isn't an issue.

CARTER: Yes.

MATTINGLY: And then you looked at the cross tabs after the midterms, and it mattered in the exit. Like, it mattered in the exits. Is it -- does it matter now, even those types of numbers?

CARTER: It does matter. And it matters now more -- to more people than it did before. The problem, I think, that Joe Biden has is it matters to Republicans in a different way than it matters to Democracies. When you look at it, just some numbers, 72 percent of Democrats say democracy is at stake if Trump wins, 55 percent of Republicans say democracy is at stake if Biden wins. So, when you're making the democracy argument, it actually could help the other side.

Now, I'm not sure, when Joe Biden is talking about this, it could galvanize his base, but it can really upset other people - people on the other side because Republicans look at the threat to democracy that he poses as people saying, you must agree with me. My freedom of speech is not - is not being allowed. You're going to judge me and all of that. And they feel very, very threatened in this moment.

JOHN AVLON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: It's important to note those two things are not equivalent.

CARTER: Right.

AVLON: Right. I mean, you know, the concern about democracy being expressed by President Biden, which, you're exactly right, was dismissed by a lot of pundits who said, no, he should be focused on kitchen table issues. There's going to be a red wave coming. Biden made the democracy argument last time and it resonated.

And Republicans are concerned. And you can - we can have a great debate about liberalism on both sides and the feedback loop and all that sort of stuff. But the fact that 25 percent of folks think that January 6th was an inside job, that's a function of disinformation that's been propagated by Donald Trump directly. And I think the democracy argument's important, particularly with the iconography of Valley Forge because we go through these Valley Forge moments every once in a while in our history. And this is one of them where we do need to defend democracy. And it's not just Biden saying it. It's former Trump staffers warning that Donald Trump represents this threat to democracy.

CARTER: I think - I think one of the biggest problems I have with all of this, though, is that in having these kinds of debates, it makes it more divided rather than more united. And I know it's - I know it's -

AVLON: (INAUDIBLE).

CARTER: It's - it's important that -- you're right. I understand that but --

AVLON: OK, but - but I mean I'm -- I'm all for uniting, not dividing, but it means drawing the clear contrast and not saying the problem - it's divisive to bring up dangers to democracy, because if there's a danger to democracy propagated by one candidate, it's important to call that out rather than running away from that fact in the - in the spirit of uniting the country. You need to call it what it is.

CARTER: How are we going to -

CORNISH: Errol, can I let -

AVLON: Sorry.

CORNISH: Can I get you into this a little bit. Yes.

ERROL LOUIS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, as a matter of -- for a presidential campaign launch, it's going to do a number of things for the president. First of all, it's what he believes. Secondly, it does help to unite the country because we are united around the Constitution. And he's going to sort of talk about the rule of law and the Constitution and what defending it means. And that's what Valley Forge was about. That's what his presidency has been about. That - those are the messages we're going to hear today.

It's also, though, I mean while it might enflame some hard-core Trump supporters to hear that their guy was part of an insurrection, there are also a lot of independents out there. And Joe Biden's going to be talking to them today as well. Because the polls have always shown that they broke towards Biden when it came to questions of, what was January 6th about. And, by the way, you know, another thing he gets to do and will do today, I think, is indirectly remind us that this is a guy who's facing criminal charges. He's going to run against a person who's facing criminal charges in multiple jurisdictions. That too is something that independents have indicated to pollsters does not make them like Donald Trump very much.

MATTINGLY: I don't - I'm sorry to interrupt, but I think I know where you're going. The actual numbers, like, what are you seeing in terms of, is it because low propensity midterm voters might vote in a presidential election and they didn't turn out then but they will now and they don't like this issue?

[06:40:02]

What are you looking at right now to pull the thread you're talking about?

CARTER: Well, look, so, 14 percent of Republicans blame Donald Trump for January 6th. By going after Donald Trump, you're actually going to galvanize these folks to say more energetically, I'm going to defend him.

The other issue is, while this is really popular, 86 percent of Democrats say it's Donald Trump's fault, you need to go after him. It's about - just about half of independents. And so you're going to split the issue. And he needs -- this is a game of math and addition. He really needs to be adding to his base, not anything else.

When you - when you look at some of these numbers, this is the kind of argument that can alienate people. It can make people dig their heels in and say, I'm not sure I agree with you. And so I'm - I'm just - I'm concerned that in this moment, the way that he's going after this is goings to force people to say, I'm wrong. It's going to force people to say that I've aligned myself with evil. And that's something that, from a - from a psychological perspective is really hard to do.

CORNISH: We don't know if he'll use that kind of language yet.

CARTER: We don't know if he'll use that kind of language. I think about some of the -

CORNISH: OK. Just - I -- just to - I mean, we're waiting for this speech.

LOUIS: Yes.

AVLON: Of course.

CARTER: Yes, no, that's - that's completely fair.

MATTINGLY: Can I get to one thing, because I actually do think this all threads together.

There was a Trump attorney who was on Fox who was talking about the cases that he's currently facing, particularly those that have taken him off the ballot in Colorado and Maine.

Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALINA HABBA, TRUMP ATTORNEY: I think it should be a slam dunk in the Supreme Court. I have faith in them. You know, people like Kavanaugh, who the president fought for, who the president went through hell to get into place, he'll step up. Those people will step up. Not because they're pro-Trump, but because they're pro-law, because they're pro- fairness. And the law on this is very clear.

(END VIDEO CLIP) MATTINGLY: The reason why I say it threads together is because people have different interpretations of very clear things that are happening and often times those interpretations are actually what the other side is doing, as in, if a Democrat said that about the Justice Department or Merrick Garland or fill in the blank here, there would be an absolute implosion.

AVLON: Correct.

MATTINGLY: That's bonkers.

AVLON: Yes. And the fact that she's saying the quiet part out loud.

MATTINGLY: She's his lawyer.

AVLON: Yes, she's his lawyer, which says a little bit about the quality of his legal council.

But that she's saying that Brett Kavanaugh will step up and side with the president because he appointed him, I mean, that goes against every basic idea of law and independence of the judiciary, and, frankly, puts Kavanaugh in a bit of a box.

LOUIS: Yes.

MATTINGLY: Yes.

AVLON: But - but, you know, look -

LOUIS: I mean -

AVLON: The good people can disagree about the political implications and everything, but the Constitution says what the Constitution says. And the idea it's a slam dunk and you're going to be rescued by partisan politics exposes the rot and the degradation of the court (ph).

CORNISH: Errol, I want to bring you in.

LOUIS: Real quickly. I mean the whole idea, of course, of life tenure on the Supreme Court is precisely to prevent this. And Brett Kavanaugh or anybody else on the Supreme Court is not going to be taking instructions from the Trump legal team about how they're supposed to rule on this very, very important case.

AVLON: No.

LOUIS: You know, if we have enough faith in the institution, we shouldn't be overly worried about this.

CORNISH: Well, I guess that's kind of the problem.

LEE: Yes.

LOUIS: Yes, well -

LEE: Well, that is a huge part of the problem. Yes.

LOUIS: Right. Right.

LEE: I mean, look, only 6 percent of Americans trust that the federal government works as it's supposed to work. And this is one of the reasons why. You see people like this out there saying that you can make a call to Brett - or just nod to Brett Kavanaugh is going to do the right thing. That is - that is - at best that is concerning.

AVLON: Yes.

MATTINGLY: I -

LEE: At best.

MATTINGLY: That's at absolute best.

Lee, Errol, John, thanks, guys. Appreciate it.

Well, today could be the day the Supreme Court - we were just talking about them - the justices could decide on taking up that case on Donald Trump's ballot eligibility. What we're learning about that, ahead.

CORNISH: And we'll have more about the documents unsealed from the Jeffrey Epstein case. The reporter who investigated Epstein and worked at "Vanity Fair" joins us in our next hour.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:47:59]

CORNISH: This morning, the Supreme Court could make its first move on the case to remove Donald Trump from the Colorado primary ballot. Justices are expected to meet today to discuss pending cases. Trump asked them earlier this week to overturn Colorado's state supreme court ruling. And in a new filing last night, a group of Republican and independent voters in Colorado stressed, quote, "the urgency and important of this case."

MATTINGLY: Now, today is the certification deadline for candidates to appear on the ballot in Colorado. The secretary of state has said Trump will be on the ballot unless the court rules differently. The meeting comes as groups in Illinois and Massachusetts filed motions yesterday to remove Trump from their state ballots, both citing the 14th Amendment that was used to remove Trump in Colorado and in Maine.

Joining us now, CNN's senior Supreme Court analyst Joan Biskupic.

Joan, not that any of us can break into the room, but if anybody could, it would be you. What do we expect out of this today?

JOAN BISKUPIC, CNN SENIOR SUPREME COURT ANALYST: OK, good morning to both of you.

This is the first time the nine of them are back in their private conference today. It's in a closed room with only the nine. No aids or clerks with them in this room off of the chambers of the chief justice. And they will be looking at the pending cases that are -- have issues from the Trump cases to plenty of other subjects that are now before them. But they now, as of last night, have all the materials so that they can consider these cases from Colorado.

And what they're going to have to look at is a very complicated sets of questions. And we might know, Phil and Audie, at the end of the day if they're going to take these up, or they might let them sit for a little while and consider which questions they actually want to address because this is a very weighty matter with several questions pending before them.

CORNISH: So, what are those core questions?

BISKUPIC: Sure.

CORNISH: And who will like sort of -- he face in this dispute?

BISKUPIC: OK. So, everyone knows that at the center of this is a post- Civil War amendment to the Constitution, the 14th Amendment, in a section that said that an official would be barred from holding future office if, during the course of his or her tenure, is sworn to uphold the Constitution but then engaged in an insurrection.

[06:50:16]

And what these voters in Colorado have successfully argued in Colorado is that Donald Trump should be off the ballot because of what happened on January 6th. So, the core question, Audie, is, you know, did he -- first of all, does this provision apply to the - to a president. A lower trial court judge had said, no, it wouldn't apply to a president. But the Colorado Supreme Court reversed that and said it does. So, you haves questions such as, was January 6th an insurrection? Did Donald Trump incite that insurrection? Can states enforce this insurrection provision?

I should remind everyone, but this has not been tested, and there is so many other questions that the justices will be deciding, what should they address and when shall they address it.

MATTINGLY: Joan, do we have any - I constantly am told, the Supreme Court can act when it wants to act.

BISKUPIC: Right.

MATTINGLY: It can act as fast as it wants or as slow as it wants. Is there a time pressure here?

BISKUPIC: Yes, there's time pressure, Phil, and this is - this is why I think there is a chance we could see a signal today or early next week because the parties have -- that have come in have said, the Colorado voters want a decision as early as February 11th because on February 12th that's when Colorado mails out its ballots that need to be returned by March 5th, Super Tuesday. So, you know, they feel like the pressure should - should cause a decision to come as early as February 11th.

The Colorado Republican Party that has joined with Donald Trump to challenge the ruling by the Colorado Supreme Court says, as long as you rule by March 5th, things will be OK. March 5th, of course, is Super Tuesday. Colorado and about 15 other states will be holding their primaries that day. So, that's the time pressure on this court that normally moves, Phil and Audie, very slowly.

CORNISH: Well, Joan, we'll be following your reporting. Thanks so much.

BISKUPIC: Thank you.

MATTINGLY: Well, coming up, more from our town hall with Nikki Haley and Ron DeSantis. The two candidates sharpening their attacks on Donald Trump.

CORNISH: An new this morning, Oscar Pistorius, the double amputee Olympian turned conviction killer, is out of prison. Why he was freed after killing his girlfriend. And her family now will respond.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:56:23]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OSCAR PISTORIUS: I wake up every morning and you're the first people I think of, the first people I pray for. I can't imagine the pain and the sorrow and the emptiness that I've caused you and your family.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: That was former Olympic sprinter and convicted murder Oscar Pistorius during his murder trial in South Africa, almost a decade ago. This morning, he's out of prison. He was granted parole in November after spending nearly nine years behind bars for killing his girlfriend, Reeva Steenkamp, on Valentine's day in 2013. The dramatic details in the murder trial grabbed the international spotlight. And during testimony Pistorius claimed he thought he had shot an intruder.

CNN's David McKenzie is joining us live from South Africa.

And, David, let's just begin with his parole conditions.

DAVID MCKENZIE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Audie and Phil.

Yes, it is strict parole conditions. We've been waiting for several years for the parole to come up. It was a roundabout way that eventually Oscar Pistorius, the former para-Olympian and Olympian, who was world famous or his feats on the track, and then disgraced because of his actions on early Valentine's morning in 2013. And after a very closely watched trial, he was convicted, first of the equivalent of manslaughter and then that was overturned to murder. The parole convictions (ph), Audie, are pretty strict. He can't talk

to the media. He's unlikely to be seen much in the public eye. He will be on parole until 2029 at least. He will be staying in pretty luxurious circumstances in his uncle's mansion in Patoria (ph) but won't be able to speak to the media.

Audie. Phil.

MATTINGLY: Has there been a response from the family? They were such central players during that trial as the world watched. Have they said anything?

MCKENZIE: They have, in fact. In a statement released a couple of hours ago this morning, the mother of Oscar Pistorius (ph), June Steenkamp, saying that, in fact, "at this time I'm not convinced that Oscar has been rehabilitated. If someone does not show remorse, they cannot be considered to be rehabilitated."

She has said, Phil, that she has forgiven Oscar, but she does say that she doesn't believe his version of the events. That he said that he shot the bathroom door in his apartment, saying he believed it was an intruder in the place where they were staying. But, in fact, she thinks he knew that it was Reeva Steenkamp. Either way, this has been a family tragedy, not just a case that has seen worldwide attention. I don't think we'll see or hear from Oscar Pistorius, though, even though he's been released, anytime soon.

Audie. Phil.

MATTINGLY: All right, David McKenzie, live for us in South Africa. Thank you.

And CNN THIS MORNING continues right now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. RON DESANTIS (R-FL), 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We need a change agent in Washington. Donald Trump had an opportunity to do that. He didn't do it. I will.

VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: And he was cold-blooded going after Donald Trump. Where has this guy been?

NIKKI HALEY (R), 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We need to have a new generational leader. One that's going to leave the negativity and the baggage behind and start focusing on the real issues.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She shows that she looks presidential when she talks about serious policy.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: President Biden to Valley Forge, where he'll deliver a campaign speech laying out his 2024 re-election argument.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Remind Americans of what happened on January 6th. His mission, it's to say, you think it's chaotic now, what if we go back to this guy. ERIN BURNETT, CNN ANCHOR: Tension across the Middle East escalating.

Iranian-backed groups targeting more ships near American troops.

[07:00:03]

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: ISIS is now claiming responsibility for a pair of deadly explosions in Iran.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Time is running out.