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CNN This Morning
Second Set Of Epstein Documents Unsealed, More Expected; Hostage Held By Hamas For 50 Days Breaks Silence On CNN; DeSantis Jabs At Trump 10 Days Our From Iowa Caucuses. Aired 7:30-8a ET
Aired January 05, 2024 - 07:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He got tired. He got tired of the bullying. He got tired of the harassment.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We tried to be there when he needed us but clearly, we weren't there for him enough.
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VERONICA MILLER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: This shooting happened just before school on the first day back from winter break. Police say it happened as students were gathered for a breakfast club before school began. And the first officer arrived within seven minutes of the first call and saw people running from campus.
Students who were inside the building speak about the harrowing attack at a vigil. Take a listen.
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ANGIE ORELLANA, PERRY HIGH SCHOOL FRESHMAN: At first, like, the whole -- like, the cafeteria went silent. And then, like, more shots, like, continued and everything just went into chaos. And I just saw, like, the principal start running. And, like, all my friends and I just got out of there.
LILY NAVARRETE, PERRY HIGH SCHOOL FRESHMAN: When I was on my way to go to school and my friends had sent more texts that there were gunshots and everybody was running and crying out the school.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MIRACLE: Outside from that sixth-grader who was killed, absolutely devastating news as this community is mourning. Five other people were injured -- four students and the principal at Perry High School. All of the injured are expected to survive -- Audie.
AUDIE CORNISH, CNN ANCHOR: Veronica, thank you for bringing us the voices of those young people. PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN ANCHOR: Well, this morning, there are new
revelations from the latest batch of unsealed documents connected to the late sex offender Jeffrey Epstein. Now, according to these documents, Epstein and Virginia Roberts Guiffre allege that former President Bill Clinton pressured Vanity Fair not to cover the allegations about Epstein.
In one unsealed email from 2011, from a reporter from the U.K. publication Mail on Sunday, Guiffre expressed her concerns about sharing the story with the publication, writing, quote, "Considering that B. Clinton walked into Vanity Fair and threatened them not to write sex-trafficking articles about his good friend J.E." -- Jeffrey Epstein.
CORNISH: The documents do not actually specify when Clinton's interaction with Vanity Fair took place.
Graydon Carter, Vanity Fair's editor from 1992 to 2017, said in a statement to CNN that the interaction, quote, "categorically did not happen."
Clinton has not been accused of any crimes or wrongdoing related to Epstein and has denied any criminal activity. A Clinton spokesman told CNN they had no new comment about the allegations.
Thursday's release follows hundreds of pages of documents unsealed on Wednesday with more expected in the coming weeks.
Joining us now is investigative journalist Vicky Ward. She was one of the first reporters to investigate Epstein and spoke with him for many hours. She was contributing editor to Vanity Fair for 11 years.
So, first, this allegation -- Graydon Carter just saying this did not happen. Can you give us some context here?
VICKY WARD, INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALIST, HOST AND CO-PRODUCER OF DOCUSERIES "CHASING GHISLAINE", FORMER VANITY FAIR CONTRIBUTING EDITOR: Sure. I never heard that happened. What I wonder is if Virginia Roberts is hearing gossip and getting it slightly wrong. Because what did happen back in 2002 when I was profiled to write about Jeffrey Epstein -- actually, profiled to write about his finances -- remember, this is a time when nobody knew who this guy was --
CORNISH; Right.
WARD: -- other than he lived in the most expensive townhouse in Manhattan.
I learned not of the horrific sex crimes going on that we now know about increasingly in more detail.
I did hear about the story of two sisters, Maria and Annie Farmer, and they were on the record detailing to me at the time the abuse they had suffered at the hands of Ghislaine Maxwell and Jeffrey Epstein. When Jeffrey Epstein realized that I was in possession of their allegations he appeared in the offices of Vanity Fair. I knew about this because the fact-checker who was fact-checking my piece at the time sent me an email saying oh my God, he's standing here in the office.
And I've said before that the (INAUDIBLE) allegations were suddenly cut from the piece that was ultimately published.
I suspect -- you know, I never met Virginia Giuffre until 2019, long after these papers were filed. I never spoke to her. I didn't know of her existence. I wish that I had because, in fact, she was escaping from Jeffrey Epstein's clutches at the exact time that I was trying to deal with him and write this profile. But I suspect that some version of the story I've just told you probably reached its way to her and that might be what she's referring to.
CORNISH: To be clear, your story is that Epstein, himself --
WARD: Yes.
CORNISH: -- showed up in the office.
[07:35:00]
You also have reported this very closely, and so have you noted some factual errors that you've seen in some of the documents?
WARD: Yeah. Well, there's one about me. I mean, just saying that -- describes me. I'm on a witness list for Virginia, and so are Maria and Annie Farmer. And they say that we had knowledge of the sex trafficking by Maxwell and Epstein, including Virginia Roberts. I didn't know anything. I wish I had known about Virginia Roberts and I wish I had known more about the Farmers, but there it is.
MATTINGLY: When you read through -- these types of things are released -- these first two trials --
WARD: Um-hum.
MATTINGLY: -- and whatever is coming next, does it fill in gaps for you from your reporting, or questions you just simply couldn't get answers to throughout the course of covering Jeffrey Epstein and you see -- has there been anything in here that you said oh, wow -- OK -- that's -- that explains that?
WARD: So, what's really horrific and sickening to read that I obviously missed back in 2002 was what was going on in real-time and the depravity.
What the -- and we learned last night Detective Joseph Recarey described as a pyramid scheme of young women recruiting their friends in dozens. I think he said there were more than 30 in that house in Palm Beach, and that was going on in real-time as I was dealing with Jeffrey Epstein. And that is really a very frustrating and horrible thing to feel as the journalist who was assigned to him at the time.
I -- you know, I was also assigned to look at how this man got his money and why all these powerful bold-faced names that we're reading about now were drawn to him. And I think that these papers don't really explain that.
They -- you know, Virginia Roberts does allege that she was sent out to sleep with -- you know, she says Prince Andrew, and she names other men. But the other women really took the depositions on the whole. They talk about the fact that they were bringing in each other to sleep with Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell, which still leaves this question. Why were all these scientists -- why were, later on, names we know -- Bill Gates -- why were these academics -- what did Jeffrey Epstein have that attracted them all to him? We still don't really understand the answer to that question.
MATTINGLY: Yeah, and I think it underscores why people are so fascinated by the story because that is exactly -- that's exactly right. It's the main question.
Vicky Ward, thank you. We appreciate it.
CORNISH: Thank you.
WARD: Thank you.
CORNISH: Now, in her first interview with international media since being released from Hamas captivity, Doron Asher is opening up to CNN about her and her young daughter's journey home after being held hostage for 50 days.
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MATTINGLY: Well, just this morning, it has been announced that 38- year-old Tamir Adar, who was abducted by Hamas on October 7, has died. That's according to the Hostages and Missing Persons Families Forum in Israel.
Adar is described as, quote, "A dedicated family man and a father of two young children who were his entire world." Adar's grandmother, Yaffa, who was seen being driven on a golf cart by her Hamas captors, was among the first group of hostages released in November.
CORNISH: And we're getting new insight on what life was like inside Hamas captivity. Doron Asher and her two young daughters were held hostage for 50 days. Now she's telling her story for the first time.
CNN's Bianna Golodryga has the story.
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DORON ASHER, RELEASED ISRAELI HOSTAGE: I don't have enough tears.
BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN SENIOR GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST (voice-over): Nearly six weeks ago, Doron Asher and her two young daughters returned home after spending roughly 50 days held captive in Gaza.
ASHER (through translator): The first thing that they did was to go outside to feel the wind on their skin and how good it feels because we were never outside. We didn't see daylight that entire time.
GOLODRYGA (voice-over): Perhaps not yet fully able to process what happened, she exudes remarkable resilience.
ASHER (through translator): While we were hostages, all of my energy was dedicated to the girls because if I were to get lost in grief there would be no one to take care of them. So I was acting on autopilot. I was building walls around me and I'm still on autopilot.
GOLODRYGA (voice-over): The three were visiting Doron's mother for the weekend at Kibbutz Nir Oz where the girls loved to play. That's 5- year-old Raz in the pink dress on the right, while 3-year-old Aviv holds onto her stuffed animal. This was their last photo taken before Hamas terrorists rampaged through the Kibbutz killing 48 residents, including their uncle, Ravid.
ASHER (through translator): We woke up to the sound of sirens and were inside the shelter. And then rumors started to come in the terrorists had invaded the Kibbutz.
GOLODRYGA (voice-over): They hid in the safe room along with Doron's mother and her partner, 79-year-old Gadi Moses -- a man the girls called Saba -- grandfather in Hebrew.
ASHER (through translator): He tries to speak with them in Arabic to give them money to try to save himself. And then after a few minutes there was silence and we understood that they took him with them.
GOLODRYGA (voice-over): Eventually, another group of terrorists would arrive -- this time taking all four women with them to Gaza. Only three would survive.
ASHER (through translator): They have led us to the fence near the Kibbutz, and then they put us on a tractor with other Israeli hostages. And on the way there, there was shooting going on. That's how my mother was murdered. I was hurt in the back and Aviv, my youngest, was hurt in the leg.
GOLODRYGA (on camera): Once you got into Gaza, what happened?
ASHER (through translator): We got into our hiding place -- an apartment that belonged to a family. We were inside the room without the ability to get out -- of course, closed door, closed window. And after 16 days, they relocated us to another place -- a so-called hospital.
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GOLODRYGA (on camera): Did anyone tell you what was going on? Why you were there? Were they members of Hamas?
ASHER (through translator): They didn't give us a lot of information. They mainly tried to say that Hamas wants to release us but in Israel, no one cares about us, which wasn't true. We didn't believe most of the stuff that they were saying. GOLODRYGA (on camera): What was going through your mind when you were there kidnapped, not knowing what would happen to you and your two babies there with you?
ASHER (through translator): The stuff that they've seen on October 7, I couldn't hide from them. It's like we were in a war movie. But after that it was very important to me that they wouldn't feel danger. And I told them there are no terrorists anymore and we are with good people who are guarding us until we can return home.
GOLODRYGA (on camera): Were they good to you -- the people?
ASHER (through translator): They didn't physically harm me but there was a lot of psychological warfare.
GOLODRYGA (on camera): Like what?
ASHER (through translator): That we won't return to live in the Kibbutz because it's not our house. It's not the place where we belong.
GOLODRYGA (on camera): Did you know if they were Hamas or just citizens in Gaza?
ASHER (through translator): They didn't give me a lot of info about them. I don't even know their names. I guess that the father is with Hamas but they didn't even give me much info. I just know he worked in Israel in the past and that's how he knows Hebrew, and that's how we communicated.
GOLODRYGA (on camera): Why do you think they moved you after 16 days?
ASHER (through translator): I think they tried to gather hostages together because the day that we arrived to the so-called hospital other hostages arrived there as well. And that was the first time that I met other hostages.
GOLODRYGA (on camera): Why do you keep saying so-called hospital?
ASHER (through translator): A hospital needs to treat sick people. It doesn't hold hostages. There were a few times when the girls had high fever and they were sick, and I had to take care of them and I needed to get them medication. So they brought someone who they said that was a doctor. And the next day I got medication from him for the girls, but it wasn't enough.
I used to put Aviv in the sink with cold water to bring down her temperature, but she was screaming and they would tell us to keep quiet. And the girl had a high fever but I had to take care of her somehow.
GOLODRYGA (on camera): Could you hear the IDF bombing? Did you know what was going on, and were you worried that, by mistake, you and your girls would have been in danger as Israel was trying to retrieve you?
ASHER (through translator): I heard the fighting. And, yes, we were scared. The noises were very strong, very loud, but at least that's how we knew that something was going on in order to get us back home. To put the pressure on Hamas to release us.
GOLODRYGA (on camera): What did you fear the most when you were there?
ASHER (through translator): Surprisingly, it was the day that we were released. They were smuggling us out of the hospital and they got us on a Hamas vehicle to get to a meeting point with the Red Cross. We waited a long time for the Red Cross and we were very scared because we didn't know what was going on. No one gave us any info.
Once the Red Cross vehicles had arrived, thousands of Gazans -- thousands -- children, elderly, everyone came in and started to climb on the cars and bang on the cars. I was holding my girls and I was scared of a lynch mob. And this was the first time that Raz said to me after a month and a half of me protecting her, "Mommy, I'm scared."
They absolutely put on a show to dress me up in nice clothes and shoes before I was released when my girls and I were barefoot for 50 days and we were cold because we were wearing short sleeves in November. It's one big show.
GOLODRYGA (voice-over): Today, the girls are back in kindergarten and with family therapy, for the most part, are readjusting well.
ASHER (through translator): There was one day that they saw a tractor here and they asked if the evil men are here. And I had to tell them no. The tractor doesn't belong to the evil men. The evil men are in jail.
GOLODRYGA (voice-over): And while they mourn their grandmother, Doron says the healing can't really begin until all of the remaining 129 hostages are released, including Gadi.
ASHER (through translator): Yes, absolutely. The world has to understand the reality that the hostages are in. They're not being treated as human beings. They don't give the medication. There's barely any food. Taking a shower is not something that's happening. We came back sick because of the poor hygiene. I don't want to think about how they're treating men there.
GOLODRYGA (on camera): We should note that today, Phil and Audie, the younger of Doron's two daughters, Aviv, turns three years old. The family plans to hold a small party at home and perhaps a larger one for her at kindergarten.
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MATTINGLY: That's a very important piece. Our thanks to Bianna for that reporting.
CORNISH: Now, Ron DeSantis took on Donald Trump last night in CNN's town hall. Next, we'll talk to one of his top surrogates about his Iowa strategy.
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GOV. RON DESANTIS, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Donald Trump is not willing to show up on the debate stage. Has he come to communities and answered questions? Has he gone to all 99 counties? Heck, has he even gone to nine counties? That's not the way to do it.
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DESANTIS: I think a 2024 election where the Democrats get to run against a candidate that is going through all this stuff -- that is going to give the Democrats an advantage. You don't want it to be a referendum on Trump and the past; you want it to be a referendum on Biden's failures. On our positive vision for this country.
Donald Trump is running for his issues. Nikki Haley is running for her donors' issues. I'm running for your issues. I'm running for your family's issues and I'm running to turn this country around.
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MATTINGLY: That was Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis ramping up his attacks on former President Trump at a CNN town hall last night in Iowa less than two weeks before the caucuses.
Joining me now is Bob Vander Plaats. He's a prominent evangelical leader in the state. He runs the Family Center. He's also endorsed Ron DeSantis. It was a huge get at the time for the DeSantis campaign. The governor of Iowa has also endorsed Gov. DeSantis. Appreciate your time.
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I want to start with based on what we saw last night, you've said you don't believe the polls that show that DeSantis is 30 or 40 points down. It doesn't correspond with what you're hearing on the ground.
What have you heard about last night's performance?
BOB VANDER PLAATS, ENDORSED DESANTIS FOR PRESIDENT, PRESIDENT AND CEO, THE FAMILY CENTER: He just keeps getting better and better. As a matter of fact, I think he knocked it out of the park last night. I thought Kaitlan Collins of CNN did a great job with her questioning, as well as the audience members did. You had caucus members -- a lot of them undecided yet, and that's what we're running into as well -- a lot of undecided caucus voters.
I thought Gov. DeSantis was very clear in his message. Everybody can see right away he's exceptionally prepared to be president. And his campaign, I think, is going to -- is going to do very well Monday, January 15. MATTINGLY: You told my colleague Erin Burnett last night if his
organization turns out on caucus night he will defy and may shock the nation.
We've heard a lot about his organization -- the effort they've put in on the ground of the super PAC that supports him. But it was the if at the front of that statement that I was intrigued by.
Why are you not certain the organization will turn out?
PLAATS: Well, you always don't know until you get to that night, January 15. So you build a great organization. They've done everything they can.
As a matter of fact, Phil, I thought the Cruz organization of 2016 was the best I've ever seen in the Iowa caucuses. I'm looking at the DeSantis organization. I think that's light years ahead of where Cruz was at in 2016.
So if Gov. DeSantis, which he's doing right now closing the sale of Iowans, and his organization produces, I think, again, he could shock the country on January 15.
MATTINGLY: That's a -- that's a big comparison. The Cruz operation was, I think, widely considered one of the best in the state maybe ever.
PLAATS: It was. It was the best I've ever seen.
MATTINGLY: The -- you endorsed Ted Cruz. You have a pretty great record of endorsing folks who end up winning the caucus.
Are you concerned that your kind of oracle of Iowa run is going to come to an end?
PLAATS: Well, first of all, it's not about me, and I think that's what Gov. DeSantis told the people last night. It's not about him, either. It's about the people of Iowa. It's about the people of this country.
I think what we do is we need -- we need the next generation leader. I tell people all the time I'm a friend of Donald Trump. This is not against Donald Trump. But this is for the future of our country and I think we need a leader who can lead on day one and who can lead for two terms. And I think America would be exceptionally blessed if we were to choose Gov. DeSantis for that purpose.
MATTINGLY: You've made the point, and you know this better than anybody, this is an expectations game kind of moment where everybody's talking about where does somebody need to finish in Iowa. Where does Nikki Haley need to be in New Hampshire to try and get the momentum?
You told The Washington Post in an interview he either needs to come in first or he needs to be a close second in Iowa and somewhere within, I think you said, 10 points. If he's outside of that is his race over? PLAATS: Well, I don't think so anymore because what it is that now Trump is supposed to get 50 to 55 percent. There's nothing in my DNA that believes Trump is going to get 50 to 55 percent on caucus night.
They're saying DeSantis might get 16 to 18. I think he'll way outperform those numbers. And now you've got Gov. Sununu saying that Nikki Haley is going to take second in the state of Iowa, and there's no way I believe she's going to take second.
I think you have one candidate that will defy the expectations and will outperform his numbers on caucus night. And I believe that will give him momentum going into New Hampshire and South Carolina, and the other states.
MATTINGLY: Just to step back before I let you go, evangelical leaders -- prominent evangelical leaders who have gone in a different direction of the former president have taken a lot of heat. So have members of the -- of their churches, of their faith.
What's the response been like since you decided to endorse Ron DeSantis?
PLAATS: Well, there's no doubt -- I mean, the former president -- he's a New York street fighter. He knows how to play this game. And -- but I take it as that. And so, I don't take the attacks personal at all. And that's why I'm saying being a friend of Donald Trump isn't always telling him what he wants to hear.
And I think right now it would be best if our country turned the page and our party turned the page as well and nominated a person that can really debate about this country's future versus the defense of somebody else. We don't want this election to be about the past. We want this election to be about the future.
MATTINGLY: To that point, would you vote for him if he's the nominee?
PLAATS: Well, it always comes down to choices. Right now, I think the focus is -- and I tell people all the time, the focus right now is the Iowa caucuses and this primary. The general election is way off and then when that comes to the point we get to discuss that issue as well. But right now, I think everybody sees there's a big difference between the Biden administration and the Trump administration and this country is much better off in the previous administration.
MATTINGLY: A huge 10 days in the state of Iowa for the DeSantis campaign as well.
Bob Vander Plaats, thank you very much.
PLAATS: Thank you, Phil.
CORNISH: This just into CNN. Former Capitol police officer Harry Dunn, who was on duty during the January 6 attack and later testified before the House.
