Return to Transcripts main page

CNN This Morning

Michelle Obama Speaks of Election Outcome; Michigan Wins National Title; Haley Surges in Polls; Trump in Court for Appeals Hearing. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired January 09, 2024 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:30:00]

KATE BEDINGFIELD, FORMER BIDEN WHITE HOUSE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: I mean I think this clip does two things, right? It lays bare, you know, the fact that Donald Trump only cares about his own political fortunes and about himself. I mean he said many, many times, this campaign for him is about retribution and revenge. You know, this certainly underscores that. And it shows how little he cares about what is - what actually happens to people in this country. And those are two really fundamental weaknesses that the Biden campaign can and should exploit.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Former First Lady Michelle Obama was speaking in an interview and talked about her fears. And, Leah, I want your take on this fear particularly that she articulated.

Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHELLE OBAMA, FORMER FIRST LADY: What's going to happen in this next election? I am terrified about what could possibly happen because our leaders matter. Who we select, who speaks for us, who holds that bully pulpit, it effect us in ways that sometimes I think people take for granted.

And we can't take this democracy for granted. And sometimes I - I worry that we do. Those are the things that keep me up.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: She was speaking with Jay Shetty on his podcast.

And you made a good point that it gets to something far beyond her fears.

LEAH WRIGHT RIGUEUR, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST AND HISTORIAN: Right. So, in a lot of ways Michelle Obama's words and her fears actually make sense, right? There have been a lot of studies done, especially after -- around the 2016 election, 2020 election, that showed that black women had the highest level - had the highest level of anxiety around the election results.

In part because they know the effect that liberal policies or the erosion of civil rights could have on their day to day lives. Not only that, it's not just a fear, it actually, for many of them, it came true. And we have seen the erosion of many of these rights. Affirmative action, reproductive rights, maternal rights, economic rights. And so I think part of what Michelle Obama is trying to tap into is a reminder that there is so much at stake.

With that being said though, I think that the - the Obama - the Obamas have to be very careful because it's also true that many of those anxieties have arisen during other presidential administrations. It's not just Donald Trump. It's our leaders more broadly, right? That our leaders in this country are, you know, eroding the very fabric of democracy.

And so when you hit on that, I think it also reminds people that it's not just Donald Trump, although that is the most explicit, but that there are other leaders under whose kind of - whose guidance people have seen mass erosion of their rights.

MATTINGLY: Leah, Kate Beddingfield, thanks, guys. We appreciate it.

And tomorrow at 9:00 p.m. Eastern Jake Tapper and Dana Bash moderate CNN's Republican presidential debate. That's going to be live from Iowa.

HARLOW: So, moments ago, Donald Trump left his golf course in Virginia to appear in court for his immunity appeal. We have live coverage as soon as that hearing begins next hour.

MATTINGLY: And a perfect finish to a perfect scandal-filled -

HARLOW: Oh, gosh.

MATTINGLY: Scandal-filled season. That team up north, you might call it Michigan, they won the college football playoff. It's the national championship. Great for them. Congratulations.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:36:40]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's got it. Michigan barrels in. And the maize and blue on the brink of ending a championship drought.

Hail, hail Michigan, they are the champions of college football 2023.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: Well, the season started with controversy. It ended with a coronation. I want to focus on the controversy for the next 25 minutes. Jim Harbaugh suspended twice, six total games, breaking rules, potentially breaking --

HARLOW: Has anyone told you what a sore looser you are, Mattingly?

MATTINGLY: Oh, I'm such a sore loser.

The Michigan Wolverines, they are, in fact, college football national champions, put the asterisk up there.

HARLOW: Michigan ended a 26-year-title drought last night with a 34-13 win over the Washington Huskies.

Coy Wire caught up with the Wolverine's stars after the big win.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COY WIRE, CNN SPORTS ANCHOR: What's the win mean to you, J.J.?

J.J. MCCARTHY, MICHIGAN QUARTERBACK: Everything. Everything for our teammates, but most importantly Michigan Nation. It's been too long. Finally brought it back home.

WIRE: National champion, how's that sound?

BLAKE CORUM, MICHIGAN RUNNING BACK: That's something that's going to last with me forever. No one can ever take that away from me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Joining us now to talk about this big win, well deserved win, CNN contributor Cari Champion.

Good morning, friend.

CARI CHAMPION, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Good morning, Poppy. It's wonderful to see you this morning. I don't - I don't know why Phil is - there's so much ire here. I am sorry.

MATTINGLY: Sorry I care.

CHAMPION: Yes.

MATTINGLY: Like, I'm not - I'm not going to apologize for, one, embracing a rivalry -

CHAMPION: I agree.

MATTINGLY: And, two, acknowledging the fact that, you know, Harbaugh was suspended twice.

CHAMPION: It's self - twice. Six - six times total.

MATTINGLY: Yes.

CHAMPION: Controversy, self-inflicted.

MATTINGLY: (INAUDIBLE).

CHAMPION: But they were battle tested. And I - and you don't want to hear about it.

MATTINGLY: No, I do. I do. I actually do.

CHAMPION: Poppy, this is what's interesting. And you know this is true. I find his story so fascinating. I would love to say that I think that he doesn't deserve this and there needs to be as asterisks, but what he was able to do, what that team was able to do more specifically this season, not so much even Harbaugh, they believed and they felt like they had to play with a huge chip on their shoulder because people said they didn't deserve, they were cheaters, they were doing all these different things which I'm sure -

MATTINGLY: All true.

CHAMPION: Yes, which I'm sure you agree with. But - so, here they go. They -- their defense was lights out last night. And I just felt like Washington couldn't stop them. They ran the ball, they ran the ball, and then at the end the day, the Harbaugh family, their legacy in coaching to me is more than defined. His brother has the number one team in the NFL. His father was a coach. Jim played at Michigan. The story lines are aplenty and bountiful. So, I mean, they deserve -- hate to say that to you, but, Poppy, you understand.

HARLOW: I totally understand. My dad is a Michigan alum, there's that too.

CHAMPION: You get it. You get it.

HARLOW: But staying on football, but in a totally different realm -

CHAMPION: Yes.

HARLOW: What is going on with Aaron Rodgers right now?

CHAMPION: Or always, actually.

HARLOW: Yes.

CHAMPION: And I am not very -- I'm not a fan of Aaron Rodgers, I will say that, for a few reasons, because oftentimes he takes it off of the sport and makes it about him. So, most recently he has this huge blowout with Jimmy Kimmel just because he doesn't like what Jimmy Kimmel is saying about him, right? He doesn't like how Jimmy is talking about him.

But Aaron has decided, in so many ways, that he is the enlightened one and he gets very upset when he can't control the narrative.

[08:40:01]

And I've noticed that about him since he was in Green Bay. Now he is a Jet. And so he has to try to control the narrative. And what usually happens is, is that he appears as if he wants to be elevated and better than others. And it doesn't work out in his favor.

MATTINGLY: Can we play the sound? We had the sound. Listen to it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) JIMMY KIMMEL, HOST, "JIMMY KIMMEL LIVE": A lot of delusional people honestly believe I am meeting up with Tom Hanks and Oprah at Shakies (ph) once a week to eat pizza and drink the blood of children. And I know this because I hear from these people often.

Either he actually believes my name was going to be on Epstein's list, which is insane, or the more likely scenario is, he doesn't actually believe that, he just said it because he's mad at me for making fun of his top knot and his lies about being vaccinated.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: The latter has been the working theory since he said it. We haven't heard from him. He's supposed to be on the McAfee show, his weekly appearance, later today.

CHAMPION: Uh-huh.

MATTINGLY: The only thing we have heard is in a press conference at the end of the Jets season saying that next season the Jets need to keep all the distractions out of the locker room.

CHAMPION: Yes.

MATTINGLY: Which is a weird thing for Aaron Rodgers to say.

CHAMPION: He is full of distractions. And, OK, so, by way of background, Poppy, and you - and you know this, he goes on Pat McAfee's show every week.

HARLOW: Yes.

CHAMPION: And when he was deciding whether or not he was going to stay with the Green Bay Packers or if he was going to leave and be a Jet, he went on every week and it was such a prolonged, painful experience for sports fans because he made it about him the entire time. And what he has been known to do is criticize other - other people and this is how he gets it off. And so we're thinking, Aaron, enough is enough. And good for Jimmy for firing back because we're tired of your arrogance. Play football, sir. My opinion.

HARLOW: Yes. No, there you go. But we'll listen closely to what he says today, to your point.

Now we want to get to this. This is some news very close to home for us here at CNN. One in eight women in America will develop breast cancer in their life. One in eight. Sit with that for a minute. And yesterday our very close friend and colleague, someone who I think it's fair to say is beloved by everyone here at CNN, she revealed that she's one of them, and she bravely shared her battle with cancer. Why? Because she wants to help save more women.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: I have never been sick a day of my life. I don't smoke. I rarely drink. Breast cancer does not run in my family. And yet here I am with stage three breast cancer. It is hard to say out loud.

So, to all my sisters, black and white and brown out there, please, for the love of God, get your mammograms every single year. Do your self-exams. Try to catch it before I did.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Please listen to Sara because these numbers speak for themselves. And black women are 41 percent more likely to die from breast cancer than white women. Forty-one percent.

Sara is in the middle of her second month of chemo and her treatment plan includes radiation and a double mastectomy. Still, in her announcement, though, being the extraordinary woman that Sara is, she actually thanked cancer for choosing her and she explained why in a conversation with our colleague Abby Phillip last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: And when I walk up in the morning now, I'm just thankful to be awake. Literally, like, when I was seven and eight years old, when you woke up excited, I wake up excited. I get to come to work today. I don't feel sick. I get to go work out today. I get to see my friend. I get to hang out with Abby Phillip. I get to talk to people who are incredible minds on a daily basis. I just -- my brain has changed. And I'm so filled with gratitude. Filled to the brim with gratitude. And I honestly had to, one morning, wake up and go, you know what, thank you, cancer, because I didn't see life like this before. And I do now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: The epitome of grace and grit.

CHAMPION: Yes. Yes. We had the lovely experience to do the New Year's Eve show with Sara. And before -- I'm going to do my best not to cry because I'm a cry baby -- but she had shared with me that she had it. And I said -- I just - just -- she's a great woman. And I think she's, obviously, going to be fine. However, I think it's just a reminder of - of what we should appreciate that's life.

HARLOW: A hundred percent. She is beloved by all of us here.

MATTINGLY: I'm trying to find the words. Like, there's no colleague that everybody loves more in the world.

HARLOW: It's true.

MATTINGLY: There's also no badder chick on the planet than Sara Sidner.

CHAMPION: Yes.

MATTINGLY: Which is why I have so much confidence in the years ahead for her and all of us.

Appreciate it. CHAMPION: OK, thanks for having me.

MATTINGLY: Appreciate it.

CHAMPION: Sorry about the tears.

HARLOW: Don't be. Don't be. But everyone heed Sara's message.

MATTINGLY: Absolutely.

Well, new this morning, Nikki Haley surging in New Hampshire for talking politics. A new CNN poll shows how much ground she's made up against Donald Trump. We'll have more when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:49:06]

HARLOW: Welcome back.

You're looking at live pictures of the courthouse where Donald Trump will arrive at any minute. His lawyers are arguing that he should have immunity for efforts to overturn the 2020 election.

Meanwhile, a new CNN poll this morning shows Nikki Haley cutting former President Trump's lead down significantly in New Hampshire. Down to single digits. Trump stands at 39 percent in the state. Haley is now just seven points behind him at 32 percent. That is a 12 point surge from 20 percent that she held there in November.

MATTINGLY: CNN's Harry Enten joining us now.

Harry, polls are a snapshot in time, but there's a very clear tread line here. How much has Nikki Haley closed the gap in New Hampshire?

HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR DATA REPORTER: Yes, you know, you said it, Phil, closing that gap. She is at 20 percent in November. She's up to 32 percent now.

Look at that, a 7 point margin. Look back here, it was a 22 point margin. And, of course, Ron DeSantis basically falling to the floor. He was at 9 percent. Now at just 5 percent. Ramaswamy and Christie basically staying equal.

[08:50:02]

The question is why. Why has Nikki Haley closed the gap in our poll? I think this will give you the reason why. Undeclared voters, you know they can vote in the state of New Hampshire. They have fueled upsets before. Look at them now versus November. Now Nikki Haley with a clear advantage, 43 percent, Christie at 23 percent, Trump all the way back at 17 percent. Back in November she was just at 25 percent. It was a three-car horse race. Now Nikki well ahead with this all-important group in the granite state.

HARLOW: Yes, it's interesting, Trump could be in the granite state today. He could be in Iowa. But he's going to be in a courtroom that he doesn't need to be in for an extraordinary argument by his lawyers that he basically could be immune from anything as president.

ENTEN: Yes.

HARLOW: Talk about politically, though, why he's there.

ENTEN: Why is he in the courtroom? Well, this should give you a reason why. Trump's two biggest days for fundraising, one was when he was in the courtroom being arraigned in New York and Manhattan court. The other one, when Trump was booked in Fulton County Jail the day of the infamous mug shot. Both of those days he raised well over $1 million.

And to me it does seem like these indictments have definitely changed the course of the race in terms of fundraising. Look how much Trump raised in the last quarter. The quarter before that, just 18.8 in quarter one.

HARLOW: Wow.

ENTEN: This has been fueling his fundraising. That's why he's there.

HARLOW: Yes.

MATTINGLY: Harry Enten, my man, thanks, buddy.

ENTEN: Thank you.

HARLOW: Thanks very much.

We are standing by for Donald Trump's historic court appearance. What to expect in this presidential immunity appeal straight ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:55:09]

MATTINGLY: Well, in a matter of moments, former President Donald Trump will be arriving at federal court for his appeals hearing over presidential immunity. He left his golf course in Virginia a few minutes ago for court in Washington. Just a reminder, he is not actually required to attend court today.

HARLOW: Joining us now on all of this, Josh Barro, writer of the "Very Serious" newsletter and the host of the "Very Serious" podcast, and Leah Wright Regueur, CNN political analyst and historian back at the table with us.

Leah, I just want to start with you on your historian side of your brilliance. This argument that Trump's lawyers are about to make in court, that he's choosing to be there to witness, what does it mean for history either way that it goes?

WRIGHT RIGUEUR: Well, as with many things with Donald Trump, it is historic. It is a first of many things. We've seen, I think, some similar things around Richard Nixon. He would probably be the closest in any event. But nothing on the scale - nothing on the scale of what Donald Trump is offering today, right, and what his lawyers are arguing and essentially saying anything that he did under the - you know, the rubric of the presidency he is immune from prosecution.

With Richard Nixon it was something different. It was something about a very specific, can presidents be held to a very specific standard and be forced to turn over things to, you know, the independent investigation surrounding the case of Watergate.

So, what Trump is trying to do is something radically different, and his lawyers are trying to do. And, in fact, it would actually change because what it would mean going forward is that any president couldn't be held to any kind of criminal standard or investigation or kind of consequences outside of impeachment if we say that presidents have immunity for anything that is done in office.

Now, on the one hand I think perhaps that is, you know, it is a question that we need to investigate. It is one that his lawyers are trying because it is a relatively good legal question that needs to be answered. For many years we've had questions about the actions of presidents while in office. But we've never actually gotten to, is this a - is this criminal, is it civil, can they be held liable. Now we are answering that question.

And I have to say, while I'm sure that the independent counselor in this case, Jack Smith, is pretty pissed off, it's been a roller coaster with Donald Trump deliberately, I'm also sure that he probably wants to get - wants to get an answer to this as well. Like, stop wasting my time. If I need to be here, then I'll be here. But if I don't need to be here, let's abolish this. And moving forward we don't hold presidents to that standard.

MATTINGLY: Josh, to this point, the merging of the campaign and the legal has been effective, right? Harry was just demonstrating in fundraising. You can see it in the poll numbers since the New York - the New York case back in April.

Do you see a moment where that diverges?

JOSH BARRO, WRITER, "VERY SERIOUS" NEWSLETTER: Well, I think it's different than a general election than in a primary. I think that there's a lot of sympathy for Donald Trump among Republican primary voters who think that he's being railroaded.

I thought Harry's point about that, you know, it helps him raise money, and you can see the spikes when he shows in court on these days when he doesn't need to be there. I think that's interesting.

In a general election, I mean most voters have an unfavorable view of Donald Trump. If he's to win this election, it will be by winning voters who have an unfavorable view of both him and Joe Biden. He's not going to win them over through sympathy over his legal problems. He's going to win them over by attacking the president for having allowed prices to go up too much and, you know, chaos at the border and that sort of thing. So, perhaps once he's locked up a nomination, there will be a shift in that strategy and he won't be showing up voluntarily at these things anymore.

HARLOW: But if you look at the calendar as it sits now, should he be the nominee. And if these tries go relatively on schedule now, he's going to have to be in the courtroom for those.

BARRO: Yes. Yes. I mean -

HARLOW: Isn't that interesting? Even if it might not behoove him in a general, He's going to have to in a criminal case.

BARRO: In theory this case is supposed to go to trial in the spring. I think that's unlikely. There's some other legal issues percolating that may be considered at the -- before that can proceed. But I think it's - you know, it looks likely that this will go to trial in the summer if the - if things proceed in a fairly ordinarily manner. And so, yes, not only during the campaign, it could be in the very highest part of the campaign.

HARLOW: The final stretch.

BARRO: This is not going to be a short trial. So, yes, it could dominate the general election campaign season at exactly the point when voters are paying the most attention.

MATTINGLY: Is he agile enough to pivot off it?

BARRO: It's - I mean, he's run a smarter campaigning this time than I think he's run the last two times, partly by keeping a lower profile.

I mean one interesting thing about that he's in court is he's not been campaigning very much. He's running sort of Rose Garden strategy even though he's not the president. He's barely in Iowa. He's sending his sons out to campaign on his behalf in Iowa. And he's probably going to win the Iowa caucuses anyway. But I think that both by keeping a low profile, it's deprived his primary opponents of attention, and it's kept the focus on Joed Biden. And people have a lot of negative opinions about the way Joe Biden has been - has been executing the presidency.

So, I think it - I think it will be interesting to see if - if this remains a weirdly low intensity presidential - I mean obviously it's intense in the sense that it's bizarre, but in terms of the level of effort that the candidates are putting out to campaign, if it remains low intensity like that in the fall, I think that's going to be really weird and interesting to see how that works.

[09:00:02]

HARLOW: Weird and interesting.

BARRO: Yes.

HARLOW: Two things to -

MATTINGLY: That's -

HARLOW: Yes, that's about right.

MATTINGLY: Not wrong. Not wrong.

HARLOW: Thank you. Josh, Leah, appreciate it. Thanks so much for being with us.

MATTINGLY: Thanks, guys.

BARRO: Thank you.

MATTINGLY: And CNN's special coverage of Donald Trump's immunity appeal starts right now.

[09:00:00]