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Republican Presidential Candidates Ron DeSantis and Nikki Haley to Hold Final Debate before Iowa Caucuses; Judges Hear Arguments regarding Former President Trump's Immunity from Prosecution for Acts He Committed While President of the United States; Pentagon: US Shoots Down Barrage of Houthi Missiles in Red Sea; Pentagon: Austin's Hospital Stays Were for Treating Prostate Cancer; Boeing CEO Admits Mistake after Alaska Airlines Blowout. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired January 10, 2024 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00]

GOV. RON DESANTIS (R-FL): People will underestimate. We're going to do well.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're reaching the end where I'm finally going to make a decision on what I'm going to do on Monday.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: And then there were two on the debate stage tonight, Nikki Haley and Ron DeSantis one-on-one in the CNN Republican debate in Iowa. In minutes we'll be joined by a top DeSantis campaign official as the governor of Florida falls to fifth place in CNN's New Hampshire poll.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN ANCHOR: And this morning, Donald Trump returns to the campaign trail sandwiched between voluntary courtroom appearance, his lawyers arguing that presidential immunity is absolute even if ordering a political rival assassinated.

HARLOW: Also new this morning, the U.S. repels one of the largest attacks yet by rebels in the Red Sea. American troops in combat as we get new information about the cancer fight of the defense secretary. This hour of CNN THIS MORNING starts now.

Good morning, everyone. So glad you're with us. I'm Poppy Harlow with Phil Mattingly in New York. It is the final Republican debate before the Iowa caucuses, and it's tonight. For the first time Nikki Haley and Ron DeSantis will go head to head alone just the two of them on stage in Des Moines, Iowa.

MATTINGLY: This is their last chance and probably the biggest chance to close a huge gap with Donald Trump and change the dynamics of this race with only five days left until Iowa voters pick their nominee. Haley is going into this debate with a surge of momentum after a new CNN poll showed her cutting Trump's big lead in New Hampshire to single digits. We start this morning with Eva McKend who is like at Drake University where DeSantis will be facing off tonight. Eva, what is on the line tonight for these two candidates?

EVA MCKEND, CNN NATIONAL POLITICS REPORTER: Well, believe it or not, Phil and Poppy, there are still undecided voters here in Iowa. And so this forum allows them the opportunity to solidify themselves as the clear Trump alternative. Policy differences, those will also come into focus. It's remarkable to see just two podiums up on that stage tonight after covering this Republican primary for so long when there were so many candidates at the outset.

What I can tell you is things have really intensified on the campaign trail in the last few days. Here are how Nikki Haley and Governor DeSantis are thinking about tonight.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. RON DESANTIS, (R-FL): I like being underestimated. So, you know, I could sit here and say this, but you know what, I think that being the underdog suits me better. So buckle up. I think that it's going to be an interesting ride.

NIKKI HALEY (R), 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We have been waiting for this. I've done 150 plus town halls, and it has come to this moment. Don't complain about what happens in a general election if you don't play in this caucus. It matters.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MCKEND: So I can tell you from being at some of Nikki Haley's town halls is that voters tell me that they were attracted to her campaign and candidacy based on these past debate performances. Some people will say debates are not all that important. But from speaking to voters, that sort of proves otherwise. So tonight could be hugely consequential both for the former ambassador and for Governor DeSantis. Phil, Poppy?

HARLOW: We will all be watching. Eva, thanks so much for your reporting.

MATTINGLY: The Iowa caucuses may be a make-or-break moment for Ron DeSantis. David Axelrod, who knows his way around a campaign, at least Democratic ones, said in a new piece for CNN.com, quote, "For DeSantis Iowa has become a matter of political survival. He and his aligned super PACs spent tens of millions on air in the ground in Iowa. A third-place finish in Iowa would almost certainly mean a one way ticket back to Tallahassee. And in New Hampshire, which holds its primary the week after Iowa, DeSantis has fallen to fifth place in a new CNN poll. Here is what New Hampshire Governor Chris Sununu, who is backing Nikki Haley, told Jake Tapper yesterday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. CHRIS SUNUNU, (R) NEW HAMPSHIRE: Ron's put all his eggs in the Iowa basket. He said he is going to win Iowa. Trump said he is going to win Iowa. They really set a lot the expectations out there. So I'm not too surprised that his poll numbers have plummeted just given that he is putting all his emphasis in the Midwest right now. (END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: Joining us now is DeSantis deputy campaign manager David Polyansky. He is a longtime hand and veteran of Iowa and the politics in that state. And I think that is where I would want to start. Given the ground operation, I know you guys and the aligned super PACs have spent an enormous amount of time and money on over the course of the last couple of months. Is if your firm belief that the polls are just missing what is happening right now in Iowa?

DAVID POLYANSKY, DESANTIS DEPUTY CAMPAIGN MANAGER: Well, first, good morning, Phil, thanks for having me.

Absolutely. Look, when we're facing temperatures on Monday, historically low temperatures, probably going to be minus 13 degrees or minus 17 degrees, and that is not including the windchill, what matters most is having organization on the ground. And unlike President Trump and unlike Governor Haley who is renting an organization to try to turn people out in the state, we have got a strong 1,500 person volunteer caucus operation that is going to be on the ground driving voters out on a very cold night.

[08:05:05]

And we're super excited about that. That's what the investment in the state has been about.

MATTINGLY: So you think the weather may actually be an advantage for you guys?

POLYANSKY: Well, I'm not going to say it is an advantage or not. Of course, we want as many Iowans to come out on Monday and participate in the caucus as possible. But what I'm saying is having an organization -- we've been saying this for months. We knew it was going to be a cold night regardless of the temperature. Probably not this cold. But we knew it would be cold, and we knew it was important to have volunteers, fellow Iowans in place across every one of the 721 Iowa caucus locations to be prepared to not just speak on Governor DeSantis' behalf, but help organize their neighbors and make sure that they show up that night. That is an advantage that no other campaign in this race has.

MATTINGLY: It is always cold after the caucuses. This seems to be a uniquely cold forecast ahead. It's interesting, a month ago Governor DeSantis said he expected to win Iowa. The expectations or how he's framed things over the course of the last couple of weeks have shifted. It's not that definitive. He's not saying he is going to get out of the race. It he doesn't or if he comes in third or anything like that, is that because you've seen something that has changed? Is it because there is a longer term plan here? Why the shift there?

POLYANSKY: Well, there is a longer term plan. This has always been a race for more delegates than anybody else in the battle for the nomination. That has always been our plan and it will be. In fact, I think we've got a CNN town hall the night after Iowa in New Hampshire where we'll see you there. But I think what he's laid the foundation for here in Iowa is

everywhere go, we are striving to win. Make no mistake about that, whether that's Iowa and beyond. But we're also understanding that we are in this for delegate accrual. We are in this for the long haul. And Iowa is the first game of the season. It's the first one on the calendar, and we are going to compete hard here. But it does not start and end here. It starts and begins a journey of a very long pathway through March and beyond to fight for this nomination, and we're excited about it.

MATTINGLY: The governor and his team really sharpened the attacks on Nikki Haley over the course of the last week or two on the trail, especially also on air. Is that what we should expect tonight at the debate?

POLYANSKY: Well, look, I think what you have seen nationally where Governor DeSantis has had $44 million in false negative ads dropped against him, which by the way is more than against Donald Trump and against President Biden combined, and $20 million from Nikki Haley and her groups here in Iowa alone. So we've got a massive disadvantage in terms of what people are driving in a paid format.

And so events like this tonight gives us the opportunity to stand on stage and not just push back, but force finally Nikki Haley to answer questions about her failed record in South Carolina, for once to finally put her to the test and make her answer the question that she has yet to answer -- would she consider being Donald Trump's vice presidential pick? To questions about her unwillingness to admit what she said publicly and on camera, that Hillary Clinton was her -- the reason she got into politics in the first place.

There are so many unanswered questions. And as we talk about town halls in this state, where Nikki Haley has stopped taking questions from voters and certainly from the press, tonight she is not going to be able to hide like she has in past debates, and on this stage tonight Governor DeSantis will force her to answer those tough questions and defend her failed record.

MATTINGLY: Is it not an interesting contrast, though, the sharpness of the attacks and everything you're laying out right now versus what we heard from one of the governor's supporters yesterday, both directly to the governor and to one of our correspondents afterwards? Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In my viewpoint, you're going pretty soft on him.

GOV. RON DESANTIS, (R) FLORIDA: But what do you think, because we -- I've articulated all the differences time and time again on the campaign trail.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't know that he is going to be able to pull this off unless he goes after Trump.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's going after Nikki Haley quite a bit in ads. What do you think about that?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's fine, but Nikki Haley isn't the leader. Donald Trump is.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: It is one voter, there have been a couple, not necessarily representative of everybody in Iowa, but what is your response to that?

POLYANSKY: I think Ron DeSantis is the only candidate in this race that has taken the gloves off and directly challenged Donald Trump. Look, our view all along has been the pathway to the nomination is to go through Donald Trump. Nikki Haley's belief is it has always been to go around him. There hasn't been a candidate, whether from the debate stage in the past debates to going around the state that hasn't made a very sharp contrast with Donald Trump.

And look Governor DeSantis's closing pitch is pretty straight forward and simple. He believes that Donald Trump is running for the nomination on his issues. He believes that Nikki Haley is running for this nomination on her donors' issues. And Ron DeSantis is here running on the people of Iowa, New Hampshire, and South Carolina, and elsewhere's issues. And that's a pretty sharp contrast. And I think if you go across the state where we are the campaign that's outworked anybody in this race, this candidate has been not just in every one of Iowa's 99 counties, but many of them multiple times over. He's taken tough questions. He's laid a sharp contrast with both Nikki Haley and Donald Trump. And you will see him do that bit tonight, and you will see him do it in the final push here. We are driving to win not just in Iowa. We are driving, more importantly, to win the nomination.

MATTINGLY: It's going to be a huge night, fascinating night tonight. And also on Monday, people vote. So the messages and the spin and all that doesn't matter anymore, as you're noting. David Polansky, appreciate your time this morning. Thank you.

POLYANSKY: Thank you so much.

MATTINGLY: And tonight at 9:00 eastern, Jake Tapper and Dana Bash moderate that Republican presidential debate on CNN. It's live from Iowa.

HARLOW: Former President Trump will be back in Iowa today after he attends a federal appeals court hearing on Tuesday. That was yesterday. You've heard it all live her on CNN. His legal team argued that he has sweeping immunity from criminal prosecution for actions taken as president, including his efforts to overturn the 2020 election. They claimed, in fact, a president cannot be prosecuted unless he is impeached and convicted in Congress first, even if the actions include something like selling pardons or even assassinating political rivals. Listen to this exchange.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JUDGE FLORENCE PAN: I ask you a yes or no question. Could a president who ordered SEAL Team 6 to assassinate a political rival who was not impeached, would he be subject to criminal prosecution?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If he were impeached and convicted first.

PAN: So your answer is no.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My answer is a qualified yes. There is a political process that would have to occur under the structure of our Constitution.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Our Katelyn Polantz joins us now. It was completely riveting. You were there to here the whole thing. Talk to us about what happens now. How soon could we hear which way the judges go?

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: Yes, Poppy, the first big question is how soon indeed. We're going to be waiting to see how quickly these judges move because timing in this case means a lot. It means a lot to Donald Trump. And it clearly means a lot to the Justice Department. They want a quick trial. Trump doesn't want a trial before the presidential election.

And so right now the case is paused as these judges are weighing it. They are looking at a couple things, and we are expecting in that opinion for them to address a lot of different issues. Can they even be hearing an appeal before Trump faces a jury? It is very unusual to have an appeal at this stage of a criminal case. So they are going to have is to come to a determination on that among those three judges on the panel.

They also are going to have to figure out the immunity around the presidency. Where is that bubble? What are the lines that they draw? What is the test that they create legally that that they borrow from perhaps other opinions out there in the law where they say this is what is part of the presidency and this is what is not. This is where the protections lie and not if former presidents can be protected.

One of the things that speaks to how they are thinking about what they do next is Judge Karen Henderson asked yesterday, she asked about opening the floodgates on political prosecution, and she asked it of a Justice Department lawyer, but she didn't just ask do we open the floodgates if we do, if we allow immunity or not. She said, how do we write an opinion that doesn't open the floodgates on political prosecution? Here is the answer given by the assistant special counsel James Pearce.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAMES PEARCE, ASSISTANCE SPECIAL COUNSEL: This notion that we're all of a sudden going to see a floodgate, I think, again, the careful investigations in the Clinton era didn't result in any charges. The fact that this investigation did doesn't reflect that we are going to see a sea change of vindictive tit for tat prosecutions in the future. I think this reflects the fundamentally unprecedented nature of the criminal charges here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

POLANTZ: So this case is paused as we wait for the appeals court opinion and what happens next there. But Trump has a lot of other things going on, including showing up in New York at his civil fraud trial tomorrow for the closing arguments.

HARLOW: There you go. Thank you, Katelyn, for the reporting.

MATTINGLY: The Pentagon reveals the Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin had surgery for prostate cancer. The new details about the pressure some White House officials put on the Pentagon to reveal more about Austin's health.

HARLOW: And lawmakers are back on Capitol Hill this week, some Republicans intensifying their push to impeach Homeland Security Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:18:18]

MATTINGLY: Brand new overnight, the US Navy shot down 21 Houthi missiles and drones launched from Yemen, that according to the US Central Command. It is one of the largest Houthi attacks in the Red Sea in recent months.

This means US forces continue to be actively involved in fighting overseas, all as Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin is embroiled in a continued controversy at home.

HARLOW: This morning, we are learning that senior White House officials pushed the Pentagon to release a statement on Austin's hospitalization after learning of his status on Thursday, the Pentagon has finally announced that Austin had been admitted to Walter Reed for prostate cancer treatments back on December 22nd.

The White House was not informed at the time of the visit despite the fact that he was placed under general anesthesia. He was rushed back to the hospital with severe pain on January 1st, which was caused by an infection related to that earlier procedure.

MATTINGLY: And the White House was not initially informed of that visit, either, and is now calling for a review of protocols for how Cabinet officials delegate their authority, but many from Capitol Hill to the campaign trail, still demanding accountability and answers.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I mean, how the hell does that happen, right? I mean, yes, so top secret you can't even tell the commander-in-chief?

The point is that like, what is the character of the Secretary of Defense? That seems to be pretty basic, right? You would do that with your own boss, and your own job and you don't have the largest military in the history of the world under your control. (END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Joining us now, CNN political and national security analyst and White House National Security correspondent for "The New York Times," David Sanger.

Good to have you here.

That was a huge development to learn that Secretary Austin was being treated for prostate cancer, the fact that the president didn't know as John Kirby said until yesterday that as well, where does this leave you?

[08:20:09]

DAVID SANGER, CNN POLITICAL AND NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, this whole thing is a pretty remarkable story. I mean, I think we start with the fact that we hope very much the Secretary Austin recovers quickly.

Many of us have known people with prostate cancer, I know it's hit my family as well, and it is a hard thing to go deal with. And, fortunately, he has got a very good prognosis from what we're hearing from his doctors.

You've got to set aside the prostate cancer issue from the movement of authorities now to deal with his central role. And you know, in a White House that cares a lot about process and in a military, where it's absolutely critical that you understand who's got command of decisions, weaponry at various moments, this is a pretty astounding story.

It was astounding that he was under full anesthetic from the account of his doctor in the initial operation on December 22, and they -- if the Pentagon moved authorities to his deputy, they have not yet said so.

MATTINGLY: It's also fascinating, he is not a civilian or political leader of the Defense Department. He was a former high-ranking general in the military, that chain of command, it's so ingrained in them.

David, do you feel like this peters out after a time now that they've started to become more forthcoming, that they're doing the reviews or doing the internal investigations, as are usually tried and true Washington mechanisms to try and put an end to something? Or does this continue to build?

SANGER: I think it's going to build and I think the reason it's going to build is that we keep discovering things about this story, Phil, that we did not know.

So, for example, the account that the White House has given is that they did not know that he had prostate cancer, even after the Secretary spoke with President Biden over the weekend. That's pretty remarkable. They have not been, as I said before, very clear about when it is that

authority was given to Kathleen Hicks, his deputy, who was making decisions at moments that as you mentioned before, you're having incidents in the Red Sea and obviously concern in Lebanon. There are questions of nuclear command and control here. Obviously, there are other ways that it can go directly from the president to the nuclear commanders, but the secretary of Defense is supposed to be in that loop as well.

HARLOW: David, just turning to Secretary of State Antony Blinken in the Middle East for his fifth time since the October 7th Hamas attack on Israel. He met yesterday with Netanyahu, high ranking Israeli officials; today, with the Palestinian Authority, Mahmoud Abbas.

We had Barak Ravid, a fellow journalist on yesterday who said this about what's going on and getting less attention in the north, between Hezbollah and Israeli forces. I wonder if you agree, here's what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARAK RAVID, CNN POLITICAL AND FOREIGN POLICY ANALYST: I think, you know, we are -- you know, we are very careful of saying that there is a two-front war, but honestly, you know, we have to admit that there is.

What we've seen in the last few days between Israel and Lebanon is much bigger -- sorry, between Israel and Hezbollah is much more significant than what's going on in Gaza, much more significant.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Is this a two-front war?

SANGER: You know, Poppy, I actually think it could very well soon be a three-front war. So you've obviously got the Gaza operation, which if you believe the Israeli account is beginning to switch into a different phase. We hope that that is going to become a more targeted and less overall bombing of the population, but as you can see from those pictures there, they're running out of targets to bomb.

There is what's happening in Lebanon, where obviously there is significant fighting. And then the Pentagon announced that they intercepted 21 drones and missiles in a pretty complex attack just overnight, and there was a very explicit warning issued by the United States and 11 other countries last week that said, if this doesn't stop, they will take further action.

I would not be surprised if this attack is what prompts action on the ground in Yemen, which the president has been trying to avoid, right, for the longest time, because he doesn't want to upend the very delicate truce that's underway in Yemen in its own civil war.

HARLOW: David, can I just ask you quickly, what kind of action on the ground in Yemen? SANGER: Well, they are -- they haven't said, but I think the thing

that would be -- that the Pentagon has planned for the most would be missile strikes against the emplacements where the Houthis are launching these missiles and deterrence.

[08:25:13]

MATTINGLY: It's been a question I've had all morning since I saw the headline in the Red Sea, officials saying -- that joint statement was the final warning. We will have to see.

David Sanger, thank you, as always.

SANGER: That's right.

HARLOW: Thanks, David.

SANGER: Great to see you.

HARLOW: Boeing's CEO is promising 100 percent transparency, also acknowledging in his words, "a mistake," after part of a plane blew off mid-flight leaving a gaping hole in an Alaska Airlines jet. Hear the next steps in the investigation ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: Welcome back.

So this morning, we are learning more about that investigation into the terrifying incident on board an Alaska Airlines flight on Friday when part of the Boeing 737 Max-9 plane blew off in the middle of the flight.

We spoke to the woman leading the investigation, the chair of the National Transportation Safety Board, Jennifer Homendy just about an hour ago.

I asked her if Max-9 should be flying at all anywhere in the world until those key questions are answered.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JENNIFER HOMENDY, NATIONAL TRANSPORTATION SAFETY BOARD CHAIR: But I would recommend that they not put those back in service until they absolutely know how this occurred. That will tell them what inspections need to take place and what repairs need to take place.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: This comes as Boeing's CEO, Dave Calhoun addressed all of Boeing's employees yesterday. He said it was "our mistake." He promised it would never happen again and he vowed complete transparency going forward.

Our Pete Muntean joins us live from Washington, DC. You heard part of what the head of the NTSB said. What is the latest especially on what we heard from the head of Boeing?

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