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Rep. Warren Davidson (R-OH) is Interviewed about Shutdown Deal; Bomb Threat Made at Judge's Home; Belichick Out as Patriots Coach. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired January 11, 2024 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:30:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA): Hardcore conservative. I want to get as many policy wins as we can. I want to advance the ball as far as we can.

But the reality is, we have a small majority. So, in a situation like that, you're not going to get everything you want. You get what you can get.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN ANCHOR: That was, of course, House Speaker Mike Johnson speaking to our colleague, Manu Raju, after a group of hardline Republicans staged a rebellion and, once again, ground House business to a halt, all in protest of a spending deal Johnson struck with Democrats to avert a government shutdown. The calendar says 2024. House Republicans face the exact same problems as 2023. They have a minuscule majority. They have a rebellious right flank. There are looming threats of a government shutdown. Funding battles over wars in Israel and Ukraine and border security. And plenty of in fighting.

Here's what one swing district Republican told CNN about the GOP conference working against itself.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MIKE LAWLER (R-NY): We're in a divided government. Anybody who thinks that we're going to get more out of this deal is lying. And they're kidding themselves. The speaker did the best he could under the circumstances. And, frankly, you know, our hand was weakened by the eight nitwits who removed Speaker McCarthy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: Speaker Johnson, of course, replaced Speaker McCarthy. And he's now facing the same blistering criticism that McCarthy got from his right flank over his leadership. The hardliners making clear they are ready to stand up and create headaches for him. One of those conservatives, Congressman Warren Davidson of Ohio, left the GOP conference meeting yesterday early, visibly angry, telling reporters, quote, "currently the speaker has no plans to do anything except surrender."

Congressman Davidson joins us now. He is a member of the House Freedom Caucus from the great state of Ohio - great state of Ohio, I would note.

Congressman, do you feel like it was a mistake to elect Mike Johnson the speaker of the House?

REP. WARREN DAVIDSON (R-OH): Well, I think the mistake was in removing Kevin McCarthy. We didn't have a good plan. And ultimately, we did agree that Mike Johnson was the best alternative after that. But what we didn't do is work on the plan.

I had an op-ed that Fox News ran at the time that said we're focused on the wrong question, who will be the next speaker? The real question is, what's the plan that unites the conference? And we kind of united around a person instead of the plan. And so we're -- really haven't set the conference up or the speaker up for success because finding the kind of cohesiveness that brings the whole conference together really hasn't been done robustly enough to really give our leadership the tools they need to fight and win.

MATTINGLY: You know you have - you made clear that you believe that the speaker is a good man. You met with him behind closed doors after you walked out of that conference meeting. What did he tell you in that conversation?

DAVIDSON: Well, look, I don't doubt his principles. I mean he wants to do the right thing. But I do question his resolve. We were at the border just last week, and his speech at the border was persuasive. He's like, we're going to fund the government, but we're going to only fund a government that will secure the border. We have to do border security. He was asked a question about, what does that mean? What will you settle for? He said, our position is HR-2, and we're going to defend it because it fully solves the problem. Anything less doesn't fully solve the problem. That's how you go into a negotiation.

And we didn't need another trip to the border. We know the border's broken. The question is, are we going to do anything about it? And the answer is, well, before we could even get back in session, the speaker had basically agreed to surrender our negotiating leverage to Senator Schumer. So, how do we move the ball forward? And his answer fundamentally is, well, we'll get something out of the supplemental fight. And I find that morally offensive. I don't even want to fund my government if the administration won't secure the border, let alone fund Ukraine's government in exchange for defending America. And that's the position we're left in right now.

MATTINGLY: Your colleague, Chip Roy, was asked about kind of what happens next given the current state of affairs. Listen to what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. CHIP ROY (R-TX): If they totally botch it, we get no policy reforms and we're spending at $1.66 trillion. I don't know why we would keep him as speaker. I just got to be honest. I don't know why we would do that.

I'm leaving it on the table. I'm not going to say I'm going to go file it tomorrow. I'm not saying I'm not going to file it tomorrow. I think the speaker needs to know that we're angry about it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: Now, Congressman, you made clear this shouldn't be about the man or the individual in the chair, it should be about the plan, but do you think that that's actually a plausible option here, another motion to vacate?

DAVIDSON: I don't think it would be helpful because who would we set up? We would set somebody else up for failure as well. And look, the speaker does know that a lot of us are unhappy and, frankly, that goes far beyond the right flank. We have a lot of promises we made to the public, and many of those problems -- promises are in conflict with the promises Joe Biden made. And you can't fold and fight at the same time. The real question is, we are going to be in a fight. Or we're going to surrender. And, fundamentally, we have to use the leverage that we have, which fundamentally is the power of the purse. And that means, look, we want to fund the government, but we should only agree to fund a government that will secure our borders. It's clear that the Biden administration isn't going to change policy.

[08:35:02]

We're left with the speaker himself pleading with the administration to use executive authority to change course. He didn't accidentally implement these policies. He's for these policies because of the consequences, not in spite of them. He's continued in his entire administration. And it is making a mockery of our border. It's making a mockery of the whole idea of citizenship. And the morale -- the one thing for sure out of the border was, the morale at the border with the people that are working at it is -- it couldn't be much lower. They are completely in the pits because they just bring 90 plus percent in and send them all through the country instead of securing our border.

MATTINGLY: One of the questions that I've had - and, look, this is not the first time Republicans have been in this spot, not just last year, but repeatedly over the course of the last 12 or 13 years. And Speaker Johnson made the point, we control one half of one third of the United States government. What is the outcome - like, what - I understand the fight, I understand the promises that were made, but promises and governing often conflict to some degree, and particularly when you only control the House. What is your outcome here? I don't understand what the fight would lead to from an outcome perspective.

DAVIDSON: Well, the real question is, if you don't actually - if you -- the big thing is the -- Senator Schumer wants the Republican Party to negotiate against ourselves. He wants to say, oh, not HR-2, well, will you accept something less? We didn't even make - we didn't even hold out for a counteroffer. So, how do we go into this? Of course, we don't want to shut the government down, but we should say we're -- our position is HR-2, and we should hold at that unless or until he agrees to make a counteroffer. And the reality is, what we're left with, we didn't even fight over the funding. The whole point of the CR that was in the Fiscal Responsibility Act was to have leverage of a CR in the negotiation.

So, at this point, that CR only kicks in if we get a longer term CR. So, Senator Schumer is working on a short term CR that gets us to March or something, kind of consolidates the two little mini buses that are headed at us into one big bus for March.

MATTINGLY: Right.

DAVIDSON: And the reality is, we should do that as a CR into April or early May so that it does force a cut. Then we have leverage. And that leverage needs to be used to make the administration secure the border.

MATTINGLY: That's something we're going to have to be watching in the weeks ahead.

Congressman Warren Davidson, appreciate your time, sir, thank you.

DAVIDSON: Thank you.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: There is huge breaking news in the sports world. Reports that Bill Belichick is leaving the New England Patriots after 24 years and six Super Bowl victories. What we're learning about his future, ahead.

MATTINGLY: And you are looking live at Trump Tower where Donald Trump will leave to attend closing arguments in that civil fraud trial. And reports of a bomb threat involving the judge in the case. We're going to have more on that, next.

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[08:41:33]

HARLOW: We do have breaking news. A court spokesperson says a bomb threat was made at the home of the judge presiding over Donald Trump's civil fraud trial. This is, of course, hours before closing arguments in that case. Trump will be in that courtroom.

Let's go back to our Brynn Gingras. She joins us outside of the court.

This, of course, is Judge Arthur Engoron, who has overseen this whole trial. Very concerning news.

BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Very concerning news. And we understand the Nassau County Police Department has responded to the judge's home there on Long Island. And essentially they are dealing with that matter.

We know that according to the court spokesman, Poppy, that they say that the continued layers of security that have been in place for these trial proceedings ever since the beginning, those, of course, will continue, but that they are going to add an extra layer of security specifically also for Judge Engoron.

Now, remember, this is something that the law enforcement around here has been prepared for, continues to be prepared for, because this is nothing new. We know all those gag orders that were put in place in this trial because the former president would go on Truth Social and spoke ill, not only about the judge in this case, but also the attorney general, and also the judge's clerk. We know that those -- the judge and his clerk presiding next to him really in this case, or who sits next to him rather in this case, has received a number of threats, both online, in emails, phone calls. And so security has always been high alert around the players in this trial. I mean, if you just look around me, you can see, there's actually a number of law enforcement that sort of encircle this entire courthouse.

So this is, of course, alarming, but certainly something that law enforcement isn't not prepared for because of the nature of how these proceedings have gone ever since this trial began last year.

Poppy.

MATTINGLY: Brynn - Brynn Gingras, stay with us.

Elie -- I want to bring in Elie Honig now because, Elie, Brynn makes a really good point. This is nothing new.

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: No.

MATTINGLY: Both in this case specifically but also more broadly on the judiciary over the course of the last couple of years, but this case specifically. Are you surprised by this?

HONIG: No, because this happens every time. I mean what judge, what prosecutor involved in a Trump case has not had some variation of this. It's a sad reality now, right? You think of this judge, Judge Chutkan, who's presiding over one of the criminal cases, has received threats. You think about prosecutors, the D.A. in Fulton County, Fani Willis, she and her staff have been threatened. Jack Smith and his staff have been threatened. It's a pattern you cannot ignore at this point. Trump puts out the word. Somebody out there, some wacko, will act on it. And it's eminently predictable and it's a sad state that we're in.

Brynn mentioned the gag order. I think it's important to talk about here. This judge, Judge Engoron, issued a very, very narrow gag order. He actually -- the only thing Trump's not allowed to talk about is Judge Engoron's staff. This is the case where Trump was constantly talking about the law clerk. But this is the risk. This is what judges are trying to balance. You do have to respect someone's First Amendment rights, but not at the risk of the safety of the people involved.

HARLOW: That's a balance that a judge should never have to consider -

HONIG: Right.

HARLOW: That any of their judgements or orders should have to be made with consideration of the safety of them or their family. But even beyond Trump cases, these threats, this violence against the judiciary, especially in the past couple of years, we all remember the judge whose child was murdered at her front door.

[08:45:01]

HONIG: Yes, for sure.

HARLOW: You know, we just heard from her. She just wrote a book about it. I mean this is -- the gun outside of Judge Kavanaugh's home, right?

HONIG: Yes.

HARLOW: Far too common.

HONIG: You're talking about Judge Esther Solace of New Jersey.

HARLOW: Yes.

HONIG: Just the ultimate nightmare, tragic scenario.

HARLOW: Yes.

HONIG: It's growing. It's a trend. I mean, you know, I was a prosecutor for 14 years. You're aware of this kind of thing, but we never saw this level of violence, in the worst cases, and threats. It's just becoming normalized. And I don't have a magical solution how we fix it, but we have to identify it and call it out and make it known.

This is not normal. This is not OK. People who did this will - will -- if they're identified, which I have confidence they will be, can and should be prosecuted criminally for this. Of course a threat -- calling in a threat, any type of threat directed at a judge, a prosecutor, a witness, criminal, and I think it's important we see swift consequences.

MATTINGLY: Brynn Gingras, back over to you. Do we have any sense, is this going to delay anything? Does this change the timing of what's happening throughout the course of the day?

GINGRAS: No, court is expected to start, Phil, right at 10:00 a.m. And I was sort of looking around while you were talking to Elie. And, you know, we haven't really seen any change in posturing of law enforcement here. As I said, though, there is so many members of law enforcement here, from the Secret Service, to the NYPD, to the court marshals all around this courthouse, which isn't very different from when we have seen the former president come here other times.

Certainly, we can probably expect the judge to talk about this, because he usually does address these matters before court even begins. So, we'll see if that happens. But we do expect those proceedings to start right on time.

HARLOW: What role do you think, Elie, that this would play? I mean, you expect the judge would address this at the beginning of court if everything starts on time. We know Trump's going to be there.

HONIG: I think the judge's number one goal is business as usual, is to try to carry -

HARLOW: That's kind of what I was thinking here.

HONIG: Yes, I think the judge will - needs to make a statement here, that I'm not going to be derailed. We're not going to postpone this. We're not going to change anything we do in this court of law. We're not going to be deterred or dissuaded from the job at hand.

HARLOW: Yes. OK.

MATTINGLY: All right, Elie Honig, Brynn Gingras, guys, stay with us. We're going to keep our eye on this going forward but we're going to take a quick break.

We'll be back with more on this breaking news.

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[08:51:24]

HARLOW: Back to the breaking news this morning. A court spokesperson says a bomb threat was made at the home of the judge presiding over Donald Trump's civil fraud trial. This, of course, is hours before closing arguments in that case are set to get started.

Let's bring in our colleague, John Berman. He is right outside of the courthouse.

John, this, of course, is Judge Arthur Engoron. Quite stunning news. Maybe not surprising given how many threats there have been to judges.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Not surprising given everything we've seen the last few months and the last few years, Poppy, but the timing is notable. We are waiting for the closing arguments in the Trump civil fraud trial, expected to begin just one hour from now. We got word of that bomb threat this morning. There are many layers of security in place around this courthouse at all times, especially around this trial. Now, an extra layer of security around the judge, Arthur Engoron.

I will tell you that things are moving fairly normally here. The line to get in for reporters who want to be in this trial maybe moving a little bit more slowly. Our Kara Scannell just told me she's waiting to get into that courtroom to see the proceedings.

But we did see the clerk of the court outside this building and heading in. So clearly they are going to go forward with these closing arguments in this civil fraud trial. The New York attorney general asking for $370 million in damages, and also basically to bar Donald Trump from doing business with the Trump Organization.

MATTINGLY: Yes, it's a huge day from a trial perspective. Also keeping a very close eye on the security issues as well. John Berman, I know you've got a show coming up, so we'll let you go.

I do want to turn over to Elie Honig here.

Elie, to John's point towards the end, I mean, this is a big day on a big case that could totally change the face of Donald Trump's business.

HONIG: Yes, closing arguments today, so the sort of final chapter in this. People should understand, Donald Trump has been through a bunch of civil lawsuits, right? For example, he was found liable in the E. Jean Carroll case, there's another carrying on of that trial next week.

But normally what Donald Trump does is just cuts a check if he loses and moves on with his life. This will threaten the very existence of the Trump Organization. Keep in mind, they've already been found liable by the judge on one of the seven causes of action here. And so the penalties the Trump Organization is facing here, the AG is asking for $370 million. And more important even than that huge number is the cancellation of the Trump Organization's business certificates here in New York. If that happens, they're literally out of business. So, that's what's at stake here.

HARLOW: A couple of things. The fact that this is going to be decide by one judge.

HONIG: Yes.

HARLOW: Trump's team didn't argue to get a jury. They might have had a shot at that. That's one thing.

Also, where -- is there a bit of room here for appeal, at least on the second part of it, that maybe it's overreach by the AG's office to completely wipe out the ability for Trump Org, if found liable and guilty here, to do business in the state at all?

HONIG: Yes. So, very important to keep in mind, no jury, right, this is a judge, and so the judge is the one, he -- we already know where he stands.

HARLOW: Right.

HONIG: He's already ruled one way. But there are still several counts outstanding. And then there's the question of, what will the penalty be. Donald Trump's team surely will appeal this. They'll appeal whatever the monetary figure is. They'll appeal if they have their business certificate suspended. And their argument will be this is unnecessary, it's unprecedented, and its overkill. And I will say, there is some -- a reasonable argument out there to be made that the Trump Organization is being treated more harshly than other organizations.

HARLOW: Because they're in the Trump Organization.

HONIG: I think - look, Letitia James, I mean, it's a fact, campaigned for office as AG on a platform of, vote for me and I'll get the Trumps. And I think that's going to come back to haunt her ultimately.

MATTINGLY: Right. We're going to be watching in just about an - a little over an hour.

Elie Honig, thank you very much.

[08:55:00]

HARLOW: Also this breaking news. According to multiple reports, Bill Belichick out as the head coach of the New England Patriots after 24 seasons and six Super Bowl wins. There is no word yet if he plans to retire or move on to another team. Our Coy Wire takes a look back at a remarkable career.

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BILL BELICHICK, FORMER NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS COACH: The only thing I'm focused on is the Seattle Seahawks.

We're getting ready for Cincinnati.

Give me an f, give me a c-plus, I mean I don't really -- it doesn't matter.

It doesn't matter.

Who cares.

COY WIRE, CNN SPORTS ANCHOR (voice over): Renowned for his terse press conferences, Bill Belichick and the New England Patriots parted ways after a 24-year partnership. With Tom Brady arguably the greatest quarterback of all time at his side, Belichick and the Patriots dominated the NFL for two decades, reaching the Super Bowl an astonishing nine times, winning six of them.

TOM BRADY, RETIRED QUARTERBACK: I mean he's a great coach. Taught me a lot. Was a great mentor for me for a long time. And I really enjoyed my time in New England.

WIRE (voice over): Belichick began his NFL career in 1975 at the age of 23. And during those ensuing 49 years, he created one of the most accomplished coaching resumes in NFL history. Two Super Bowl wins as a defensive coordinator with the New York Giants. At 38 became the league's youngest head coach when he was hired by the Cleveland Browns. Most post-season wins by a head coach in NFL history. Second all-time on the wins list, trailing only former Dolphins Head Coach Don Shula.

BELICHICK: Work hard, be prepared and do what's best for the team. And that's -- that's what I've always tried to live by.

WIRE (voice over): His last Super Bowl was five years ago. And since Tom Brady left after 2019, the Patriots have had a losing record in three of the four seasons, culminating with a 4-13 record this season.

Fans can debate for decades who was more essential to the Patriots success, Belichick or Brady. But one thing is not up for debate, Bill Belichick is one of the greatest NFL coaches of all time.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MATTINGLY: That is true. He's not a big speaker.

HARLOW: Belichick and Saban in 24 hours.

MATTINGLY: And Pete Carroll. It comes in threes.

"CNN NEWS CENTRAL" starts after this break.

Have a great day.

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