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Iowans Look Past Trump's Legal Woes, Hand Him Record Win; Investigators: Big Development in Gilgo Beach Murders; Top Biden Surrogate Reacts to Trump Winning Iowa. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired January 16, 2024 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:00:22]

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, everyone. So glad you're with us. Big morning after the Iowa caucuses. I'm Poppy Harlow with Phil Mattingly in New York. Kasie Hunt already made her way to New Hampshire where we have team coverage of the Republican presidential race after Donald Trump's blowout victory last night in Iowa. He won the caucuses by a huge margin, making it clear that he still has a dominant grip on the Republican Party.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN ANCHOR: Trump crushed the competition with 51 percent of the vote. Ron DeSantis narrowly beating Nikki Haley for a distant second place. Today, all three candidates will be campaigning eventually in New Hampshire with just one week left until that primary. This is a live look in Henniker, New Hampshire, where DeSantis will face questions from voters during a town hall tonight right here on CNN.

HARLOW: So DeSantis and Haley are both vowing to turn the tide next week in what could be a make or break primary. Trump is already acting like this race is over.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NIKKI HALEY, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I can safely say tonight Iowa made this Republican primary a two-person race.

(APPLAUSE)

HALEY: Our campaign is the last best hope of stopping the Trump-Biden nightmare.

GOV. RON DESANTIS, (R) FLORIDA: Because of your support, in spite of all of that that they threw at us, everyone against us, we've got our ticket punched out of Iowa.

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: I want to congratulate Ron and Nikki for having a good time together, we're all having a good time together.

(LAUGHTER) TRUMP: And I think they both actually did very well.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: I don't know that he'd be saying that if he hadn't won by 30 points. But the question still stands this morning, what, if any, is the possible path forward for Nikki Haley and Ron DeSantis. Both will end up in New Hampshire at some point today. For Nikki Haley, New Hampshire has really been critical to her entire race. But if you look at the results in Iowa, what can you pull from them to try and get a sense of if there's a path forward.

Again, Donald Trump winning by nearly 30 points in the state, a state that if you go back to 2016 he actually lost by about three points to Ted Cruz. Where you see yellow is where Ted Cruz won counties in the state. That, obviously, did not happen last night. Donald Trump winning 98 of the 99 counties winning 97 of those counties by 10 points or more. It was a blowout in every sense of the word.

So when you look at the entrance polls of Iowa voters that we got last night, it tells you about how this race actually went and whether or not there's a path forward. So there's been a lot of discussion about Nikki Haley having a real path forward with suburban voters, voters with a higher education level. Well, Donald Trump, when it comes to education, those with a college degree, 37 percent, actually more than Nikki Haley and Ron DeSantis. No college degree, always a dominant base play for Trump and his team, did so again in Iowa -- 67 percent.

What about, though, particularly as you head into New Hampshire when you talk about ideology, moderates, independents, whether Democrats would come over as well. That is a pathway forward for Nikki Haley, and it shows, at least in these entrance polls, while it was not a huge segment of those polls, 63 percent of those who identify as moderate said they supported Nikki Haley, Donald Trump only 22 percent. Still, 55 percent of conservatives, the Republican Party is a conservative party at its core. South Carolina, which comes right after New Hampshire is a conservative state, and South Carolina is a state that most people when you talk to them realize even if it's where Nikki Haley was the governor, that is not exactly ground where she is going to have a dominant performance.

So where does this all lead us? Well, obviously, we are now headed into New Hampshire. This is where everybody is going to be focused on what happened in New Hampshire in 2016. Donald Trump won that state, won it pretty handily. It is an interesting dynamic. It will be interesting to see how it plays out.

And that is where we find Kasie Hunt. That's where the New Hampshire race is really headed right now. Some candidates already there, and Kasie is with Jeff Zeleny who is not only an Iowa expert, "The Des Moines Register" alum, but also spent many, many a day in Manch-Vegas and beyond. Kasie, Jeff Zeleny, what's up?

KASIE HUNT, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Phil, Jeff and I both made our way here overnight last night. Jeff, you were at the airport, too, when we ran into Nikki Haley's people kind of coming through. Normally there's more than just one candidate coming through on that tarmac, but that's all we had. It says a lot about the race. What did you make of the body language of the Haley campaign and where they are coming out of Iowa to here where she has probably her best shot?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: You're so right about that. This field has already winnowed tremendously. And that's long been Iowa's role, to winnow the race. But there normally are a lot of planes of candidates flying, but she's the only one. Look, the last thing that I wrote down in my notebook from last night is when she said that there's -- she's here to stop the Trump-Biden nightmare. So that, of course, is her mantra going forward here in New Hampshire. But look --

[08:05:02]

HUNT: Hold on, let me stop you, because it's not just the soundbite. It's also the ad they're putting money behind. Let's play it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The two most disliked politicians in America, Trump and Biden. Both are consumed by chaos, negativity, and grievances of the past.

The better choice for a better America -- Nikki Haley.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: So Nikki Haley -- or Trump and Biden's faces next to each other in a Nikki Haley ad, I was just really struck by it. What do you make of it?

ZELENY: Completely struck by that. And she was starting to do that just at the end of the Iowa campaign, but this really lays it out in very stark terms, calling it the nightmare, trying to combine the two of them, conflate them. Look, that works among a lot of independent voters here. Look, all of our surveys show that a majority, a vast majority of Americans want something else, want a new choice. But it also speaks to her limitations, I think, because now, for all the times that she said that all of DeSantis's eggs were in Iowa's basket, now they're all in New Hampshire for her. So it really limits her growth, I think.

HUNT: Yes, so let's talk big picture. This is going to turn into a delegate race. How is that math workable for anyone not named Donald Trump?

ZELENY: It's very, very, very difficult. The reality is she and Ron DeSantis, who's flying to South Carolina today to do a little bit of a head fake before he comes here, they are trying to accumulate the delegates in case something happens with this race, perhaps with Donald Trump's legal cases or other matters. But she needs a win here in New Hampshire, and then she'll sort of figure out her strategy from there. But you're right about the winner take all after super Tuesday, which

is more than a month away. That is winner take all, which means he has been the winner and is likely to win those races, so it's a very tough delegate math.

But for now we've seen New Hampshire sort of, as she would say, correct Iowa. We've seen it be an echo. I'm thinking back to 2000. George W. Bush came with a head of steam out of Iowa, a huge margin. Trump's is bigger, but John McCain slowed that roll here. Hillary Clinton did the same with Barack Obama. So as you have seen this as well as I have, New Hampshire can change things. But going forward, it's still the same tough math.

HUNT: It definitely is. I mean, and it's -- you just never know with New Hampshire. It can really change the course of things, but it's usually in a situation where the entire field is much less predictable, period, where there is not a frontrunner that is as solid as the one that we've seen in Donald Trump.

Jeff Zeleny, thank you. Phil, Poppy, back to you.

HARLOW: Kasie, thank you, I just learned about Manch-Vegas and why it's called that.

(LAUGHTER)

HARLOW: Thank you very much to you and Jeff. We'll get back to you very soon.

With us now, CNN senior political commentator Ana Navarro, CNN senior political commentator, former Republican Congressman Adam Kinzinger, our political commentator, former Biden White House communications director Kate Bedingfield, and CNN senior political commentator, former senior adviser to President Obama, David Axelrod, all very senior and important and opinionated at this table.

(LAUGHTER)

HARLOW: We're so glad you're here. I want to start with you, Ax.

DAVID AXELROD, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Some more senior than others.

(LAUGHTER)

HARLOW: You were watching in a very astute way Phil's magical -- everyone was glued to it very closely, that tied with what we just heard from Jeff and Kasie, is this thing wrapped up?

AXELROD: Look, I think the odds have been very, very long from the beginning for anyone taking on Donald Trump as he gained momentum. Ironically, with each indictment he picked up steam. But you look at national polls right now and you average them, he's got a 50 point lead. No one has ever -- thank you. No one has ever --

HARLOW: Putting Ax's earpiece in. AXELROD: Thank you. Like I said, it takes a village.

(LAUGHTER)

AXELROD: He is -- he's 50 points ahead. No one's ever had a lead like that and lost the nomination at this point. And that's what makes this race different. It really is Donald Trump's party. And the problem is that these candidates are trying to finesse that, and they're trying to finesse the un-finesse-able by sort of not saying the big thing. Chris Christie did, and he left the race because it wasn't a message that Republicans were willing to hear. But it seems like a blemish to have been indicted four times and all of that. No one wants to talk about it. No one wants to talk about January 6th because Republican -- the Republican base won't have it.

KATE BEDINGFIELD, FORMER BIDEN WHITE HOUSE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: And Haley and DeSantis now have a really practical problem in addition to how do they find a lane to message to voters that we see kind of a fairly narrow path looking at the math. They also have a really practical problem now, which is money, and how do they continue to raise enough money to keep the campaign moving forward?

[08:10:01]

How do you make a case that differentiates yourself from Donald Trump that also lays out a believable, a credible path to the nomination. It's a very, very narrow path, and convincing people to give you their money to keep your campaign going, that's a really tall order for both of them.

ANA NAVARRO, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: It's not only a bigger problem for DeSantis than it is for Haley. A lot of his big donors, a lot of his whales -- first of all, Donald Trump subsists on small donors, people that he fools and dupes into thinking that he's this martyr and this Christ-like figure taking all this for them, and they keep giving him their hard-earned money.

DeSantis was really based on those corporate donors. The first day of his campaign when he launched his campaign he gathered a bunch of very wealthy people, corporate donors, lobbyists in a room at the Four Seasons hotel in Miami, Florida, to dial up other rich people for money and for donations for him. A lot of those folks have moved now to Haley. And I think that's where they're going to stay. Eking out a two-point second place in Iowa is not going to bring him back.

AXELROD: When he said I got my ticket punched to New Hampshire, I think he meant greyhound. He's completely out of money, and I don't think people are going to give him money because there isn't a discernible path forward.

ADAM KINZINGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think with DeSantis, he started -- it actually wasn't a bad plan at the start. He had this assumption that Donald Trump was going to fall apart, which we all kind of assumed that he'd fall apart because he's getting indicted, right. In earth one, that actually is what would have happened. And so I think the assumption was, hey, Trump's going to fall out, and

DeSantis is like I'll be here as Trump number two and I can inherit all of the disappointed MAGA base. And I think had that happened, he actually would probably be the leader right now, and he didn't do that. And the problem is he didn't have the agility to notice that wasn't happening, and he continued to try to out Trump Trump, and you can't out Trump Trump when Trump's there.

NAVARRO: I'm not sure about that. I'm not sure he would have kept those donors, because you see, it's very --

KINZINGER: I'm just talking about support, not donors at this point.

NAVARRO: Well, I'm talking about donor, and it's very hard to keep corporate donors when your campaign is based on attacking Disney, the largest business in your state. I think a lot of folks who were giving him money from the business community looked at this and said, wait, wait, wait, wait. We don't want this going on nationally what he's doing in Florida, banning books, going after the largest employer in the state, going after drag queens, going after the college boards, eliminating DEI. We don't want this nationally.

And so I think he just -- he did too much, what he says, that he kept 100 percent of the promises, that legislature which allowed him to do that probably did him very little favors.

HARLOW: Kasie, can we bring you in here? I know you have a question for the congressman.

(LAUGHTER)

MATTINGLY: Just groaned in fear.

(LAUGHTER)

HARLOW: Come on, take it away.

HUNT: Congressman, I'm interested in Ax's take on this too, but Congressman, those numbers that we saw from Iowa where 32 percent of Republican caucus goers in the entrance poll, they said that it would be disqualifying if Donald Trump was convicted of a crime.

And we've been kind of reading it the opposite way. Wow, look at that 60 percent, 65 percent who say he is fit, but I had a really conservative operatives look at this and say, this is the most conservative electorate possibly in the country, and a third of them have a problem with this, and that means that it's almost impossible for Donald Trump to win a general election, let alone for Republicans to keep the House and keep the Senate. Do you agree with that assessment? Do you think this changes if Trump is the nominee? And how much do you think elected officials and what they have to say about it will matter in that?

KINZINGER: I think it matters. I think that's right. Because I saw that and I'm like, look, the one thing Joe Biden needs to do is to be able to bring some Republicans his way. It doesn't have to be every Republican, but some Republicans his way. And when you see number and you take into account if he goes to trial, if Donald Trump goes to trial and all this information is made public, not just the stuff we had on the committee, that was bad, but like Jack Smith is going to go way beyond that, I think they should be nervous about the fact that if this goes to trial, that number could sink Donald Trump.

Now, look, I don't think all that percentage is going to now go and vote for Joe Biden, maybe just a fraction of them. But even if they stay home or vote third party, Donald Trump needs all the votes he can get and Joe Biden needs all the votes he can get.

AXELROD: It's a marginal race.

KINZINGER: Yes.

HUNT: Ax, what do you think?

AXELROD: Look, I agree that this could come into play. And this is one of the reasons why Trump is trying so hard to push the trial off until after the election. He knows that this is an exposure. But when it becomes a one-on-one or a race between Biden and Trump.

[08:15:00]

I think the majority of those people probably will vote for Trump because we've become so tribal in our politics.

NAVARRO: I agree with you. Listen, I still remember 2016 when we all heard those Access Hollywood tapes, and the evangelicals and the Paul Ryans and the -- you know, elected officials turned on him for like five minutes, and then when it was obvious that he was the nominee, that he was the candidate, they all lined up behind him.

The Republicans, I think, are far more disciplined in that aspect than Democrats are. Maybe it's just that I'm jaded and have lost all hope.

MATTINGLY: I don't believe that. I wouldn't believe that for absolute second.

NAVARRO: At this point.

MATTINGLY: No cynics at this table. Ana, Kate, David, Adam Kinzinger, come back, we've got a lot more to get to.

And Ron DeSantis will be in New Hampshire tonight for CNN's townhall moderated by Wolf Blitzer. You can tune in nine Eastern on CNN.

HARLOW: Team Biden says they are not scared of Trump, they can beat him again and one top surrogate says the other candidates in the Republican primary are just MAGA light.

We're going to be joined by Illinois Governor J.B. Pritzker, Adam Kinzinger might want to stick around for this conversation. We'll talk about it all, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) MATTINGLY: Today in New York, the accused Gilgo Beach murderer will

be back in court, following that proceeding, the Suffolk County district attorney and police department are set to hold a news conference and announce a "significant development" in the investigation.

Rex Heuermann currently faces three counts of first degree murder for the killings of three women between 2009 and 2010.

[08:20:03]

CNN's Brynn Gingras joins us live from Riverhead, New York.

Brynn, do we have any idea what this new detail or these new details are going to be?

BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Phil, like one lawyer told me, we don't know until an indictment is unsealed, but of course we are fully expecting that fourth charge against Rex Heuermann for the killing of Maureen Brainard-Barnes, the fourth woman in the Gilgo Four. She was a 25-year-old sex worker from Connecticut, actually believed to be the first victim of the Gilgo Beach killer.

Now, this is why we're sort of feeling signals on this. One, Rex Heuermann, the New York architect suspect in this, he wasn't expected to be in court until next month, and the district attorney in this county said, hey, I need an earlier court date.

We also know that the grand jury has been continuing to hear evidence in this case as you know, as soon as last week, they were still hearing evidence and we have heard that the district attorney say that Rex Heuermann was the prime suspect in the killing of Maureen Brainard-Barnes.

So we're waiting to see exactly what does happen when court begins at 9:30, but we're fully expecting an indictment to be unsealed and in that, we could learn more details of what ties Rex Heuermann, possibly, according to investigators to the killing of Maureen Brainard-Barnes.

Remember, there was so much detail in that original indictment that was returned on the three other killings. When it comes to Brainard- Barnes, we know that she was killed in a similar fashion. Her body was bound, and around her legs was a belt that was keeping her tight and it had the initials of WH, so that's something we're looking for, and on that was a hair. So we'll see if there was DNA evidence that actually connected to the two.

But again, court gets underway at 9:30. We'll hear from the district attorney, probably from the other attorneys as well. And we'll, of course, keep you updated on the developments.

MATTINGLY: Yes, please keep us posted.

Brynn Gingras, thank you.

HARLOW: Back to politics, Vice President Kamala Harris projecting confidence that she and President Biden can beat Trump again. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REPORTER: You've seen the numbers, you know, a lot, do you think Donald Trump at this point is a foregone conclusion?

KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I don't know. But look, if it is Donald Trump, we've beat him before and we'll beat him again.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: After the Iowa caucuses were called last night, President Biden said the former president is "the clear frontrunner on the other side at this point." And "... the election was always going to be you and me versus extreme MAGA Republicans."

But there is growing concern among some Democratic allies, particularly those aligned with former President Obama's two successful campaigns that the Biden campaign is under prepared to face the coming challenge. And in the words of one former senior Obama adviser, it needs to get into gear. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AXELROD: The president and his campaign need to get into gear and they need a message, and they need a message that is -- that takes in not just democracy, but the day-to-day concerns that people have, and they need to prosecute it every single day through every single surrogate. That's what winning campaigns do.

And there are signs that that's beginning to happen. It has to happen faster because the threat is clear.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: With us now as a member of Biden's campaign 2024 Advisory Board, Illinois Governor J.B. Pritzker.

Governor, always enjoy having you on. You know that voice. I don't have to tell you that was David Axelrod to us, just a couple of moments ago. Is he right?

GOV. J.B. PRITZKER (D-IL): He is right in the sense that the message has to be prosecuted every single day, and up to now, we really haven't seen voters show up anywhere to tell us who actually is going to be the frontrunner for the Republican nomination. Polls are polls, but I don't think anybody believes polls all that much these days.

Donald Trump now clearly established as the frontrunner, may be likely to be the Republican nominee, and so that makes a clear choice for people.

Recognize that, and I've been saying this all along that the Republican Party is the party of Donald Trump. Even the other folks that were running in the Iowa caucuses yesterday, Ramaswamy, and Haley, and DeSantis all were parroting all of the extreme views of Donald Trump and being -- and they were unwilling really to take him on.

And so now, you know, it's clear for Democrats that we can go straight at the message of the extremists. What's their message? They want to take away women's right to choose. They want to, frankly cut Medicaid, Medicare, and Social Security. And they want to take away food support for the poorest children in America.

Those are easy things for us to talk about, the kitchen table issues that matter to people -- jobs, rising wages, the creation of jobs, and bringing manufacturing to the United States, all things that Joe Biden has done, not Donald Trump.

HARLOW: Yes. The question is why that's not resonating? I mean, just looking at the ABC polling and it aligns with our CNN Poll of Polls. I mean, the president's approval rating 33 percent, and you dig into those numbers like immigration, only 18 percent approve of how he is handling the border, only 31 percent on the economy.

You're saying the message has to be clear now. The voters have spoken, not just the polls. What does the president need to do differently? Governor, you've taken issue with this administration on immigration on the border.

[08:25:11]

What does he need to do differently and say differently?

PRITZKER: Well, again, let's start with the economic situation of the country. Until people truly feel the benefit of this economy, right, they haven't been registering in the polls that they're in favor of the people who created this opportunity for them.

But the truth is that now that we're months and months into the recovery of the US economy, and so many jobs have been created, and income levels have gone up above inflation, as inflation has fallen, as gas prices have fallen, as mortgage rates are falling.

You know that in an election year, if the economy is going the way of, you know, in a positive direction, the election is likely to go the direction of the incumbent.

So I'm very pleased, though, with the work that Joe Biden has done because the contrast between these two visions for America is clear, right? Joe Biden has been standing up for working families. He is the person that has exhibited empathy for the American people, understands the problems and tries to address them.

Donald Trump is the one who has exhibited...

HARLOW: Yes.

PRITZKER: ... after, you know, all of these many years. I think we all know about Donald Trump, no empathy. HARLOW: It is the economy, stupid, right, as the saying goes. That's

what's so confounding is with so many of these economic indicators better, why that is not helping the president, at least not yet.

I want to ask you about something that you said last night, actually a couple of times on different networks. You said there is no difference between the Republican candidates in this field. Then, you went on to say, whether you like your MAGA Trump agenda wrapped in original packaging or with high heels or lifts in their boots, I hear that dig.

Governor, are you really saying that the view of the Biden administration and you is that Nikki Haley and Ron DeSantis are an equal threat to this country as Donald Trump?

PRITZKER: Look, these are personality differences, but not differences on policy, and not differences when it comes to the impact on the American public, right?

The Republicans, all of them want to take away your freedoms. They, frankly want to diminish your wages, because they think that's good for the economy. The Republicans are the ones who are taking away again, food support for our most vulnerable children and families.

I don't think that's where the American public is, but that is where the Republican Party is.

HARLOW: Let me ask you --

PRITZKER: That is the Republican Party of Donald Trump. That didn't used to be where the Republican Party should --

HARLOW: Sure.

PRITZKER: And one more thing, you know, I know Congressman Kinzinger is on the program this morning, and --

HARLOW: Can we just play for people, Governor what he --

PRITZKER: And I want to say --

HARLOW: What he said so that if they missed it, I want you to be able to react to exactly what he said.

PRITZKER: Yes.

HARLOW: Here it was.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ADAM KINZINGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Sure, there was some comment where he said, it doesn't matter if you know, Trump or Haley or whatever, they're all MAGA.

Like that is a way that you are going to as Democrats push aside, the people that you need to vote for Joe Biden is when people like J.B. Pritzker says, oh, they're all just like MAGA, like, that to me is not how you put together a win.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Governor?

PRITZKER: Well, the message again, among all of these candidates has been the same and bad for the American people. That's the point that I'm making.

The fact that they're all extremist is what I think is going to be most beneficial to Democrats who are frankly, lifting up working families and doing the right thing for them.

But I do think that Congressman Kinzinger has got it right in his own life. He separated himself from Donald Trump. He separated himself from the MAGA Republican Party, and that's not what Nikki Haley has done. That's not what Ron DeSantis has done. Their criticism has been light. In fact, they're afraid of Donald Trump.

Now, maybe that will change in New Hampshire. We'll see. It certainly changed for one day in Iowa as they were trying to divide, you know, voters to make sure that voters were showing up for them.

But the truth is all along, I mean, let's face it, they've been kowtowing. Nikki Haley even worked for Donald Trump. Ron DeSantis won his race for governor because he took Donald Trump's support. So, this is all one party with one extreme message.

HARLOW: Illinois Governor J.B. Pritzker, thank you, really enjoy having you on.

PRITZKER: Thanks, Poppy.

HARLOW: Thanks.

MATTINGLY: Well, from the campaign trail to the courthouse, we've seen it repeatedly over the course of the last several months. We are going to see it again today.

You're seeing cars. The former president is expected to head to the courthouse in the coming moments. We will keep you posted on that, this time for the E. Jean Carroll hearing in the case that is going on there. We see the cars moving. Yet another day, courthouse-campaign- convergence.

We'll have more. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:30:00]