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CNN This Morning

Dave Harden is Interviewed about the Hostage Situation in Gaza; SCOTUS to Hear Regulatory Power Case; Madison Marsh Shares her Miss America Story. Aired 6:30-7a ET

Aired January 17, 2024 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[06:30:00]

COURTNEY PRICE: Pointed at me. I wanted to run to him. But I knew if I ran to him I - they could have shot. They drug me out of the house, put me in handcuffs. I kept screaming, my baby, my baby, he's on a ventilator. My baby's in here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: That was Courtney Price. She says her aunt owns the home. She also says the person the police were looking for was a teenager who hadn't lived in that home for over a year. The aunt says police had come to the house about five times looking for the teen before.

Price, who you can see in this video handcuffed outside of her house, says her son had to be hospitalized due to the chemicals that came from those flash bangs. Police said the devices they deployed don't contain pepper gas or chemical agents. They say they don't cause burn. And they write in a statement that "any allegation suggesting the child was exposed to chemical agents, lack of medical attention, or negligence is not true."

The mayor is saying that while the footage captured clearly illustrates what did and did not occur when the search warrant was executed, it doesn't answer the questions of what led to the warrant itself." The family is planning legal action against the police department. They are moving to a new home this week.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN ANCHOR: Now over to Capitol Hill, where after months of negotiations, a bipartisan group of lawmakers in both the House and the Senate just announced a $78 billion tax package. It's a critical package with an unclear path forward.

Let's break it down right now.

It would expand the already-popular child tax credit, while also temporarily, at least, restoring several business tax breaks that have recently ended or have been phased out. The package would also boost funding for affordable housing and disaster relief.

But let's dig a little bit deeper about how this could actually impact families. Under the current tax code many low-income families receive the same child tax credit regardless of the number of kids in the family. Under this new deal they would receive the same credit for each of their children. Right now that is only something higher-income families actually have access to.

Now, according to the left-leaning Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, the proposal would help more than 80 percent of the 19 million children who receive no credit, or a partial one, because their families earn too little. That organization also says, if the tax package is implemented, after the first year as many as 400,000 children could be lifted above the poverty line, a hundred thousand more when it is fully in effect.

So, what's next? When can families in need see this money? Well, the deal still faces many hurdles to pass on Capitol Hill. There's still questions of whether it be a stand-alone bill, potentially try and ride on a different vehicle, like a stopgap spending bill. And it's unclear if they'll be able to win sufficient support to pass the legislation, despite the fact it's bipartisan. They're trying to do it by the end of this month. The White House still has not officially committed to it. Some Republicans very skeptical as well. The moment Senate Finance Committee Chairman Senator Ron Wyden, the Democrat who negotiated the deal, said, quote, "my goal remains to get this passed in time for families and businesses to benefit in the upcoming tax filing season, and I'm going to pull out all the stops to get that done."

Poppy.

HARLOW: You think this happens? Do you think - I know the White House wants more, but do you think this makes it all the way through?

MATTINGLY: This is the deal, right?

HARLOW: Yes.

MATTINGLY: It's the business tax breaks, for the child tax credit expansion. It's not expanded to the degree that it was in the American Rescue Plan. That has some Democrats skeptical. The White House is also being a little wary here. It needs a vehicle.

HARLOW: Yes.

MATTINGLY: It needs a vehicle. And right now I'm not totally sure it has one. They can't even get the government funded. But this is a necessity and should pass. Will it, though?

HARLOW: And when it expired last time, so many children fell back into poverty that had been pulled out from it.

MATTINGLY: Demonstrable results.

HARLOW: Yes, totally, and fast ones.

Phil, thank you very much.

Meantime overseas, the U.S. striking Houthi targets in Yemen for the third time in just the past couple of days. A warning -- and warning ships, I should say, to avoid the Red Sea still until further notice.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:37:26]

HARLOW: Very sad news to report. Two Israeli hostages who have been held in Gaza since October 7th have died. This is according to a statement released by the kibbutz where they lived. Hamas recently released a video that purported to show the bodies of Yossi Sharabi and Itai Svirsky. A move that the Israeli defense minister called psychological torment for their families.

Sunday marked the 100th day of captivity for more than 130 hostages that are believed to still be held in Gaza. Protesters in Israel and around the world marked that day with demonstrations, calling for the remaining hostages to be freed immediately.

MATTINGLY: Now, Qatar says it has brokered a deal between Israel and Hamas, that would see the delivery of medicine to Israeli hostages in Gaza in exchange for the delivery of medicine and humanitarian aid to civilians in the most affected areas of the Gaza Strip.

Joining us now to discuss, former USAID West Bank and Gaza mission director Dave Harden.

Dave, we appreciate your time this morning.

To start with, when you look at the construct of this agreement brokered by Qatar, do you feel like this is a step forward that could lead to something broader substantively?

DAVE HARDEN, FORMER USAID WEST BANK AND GAZA MISSION DIRECTOR: Not really. I mean, look where we are right now, more than 100 days in. We're just getting medicine to hostages and medicine into hospitals. I mean it's really a deep hole that we're trying to walk out of.

Yes, it's a good thing, though, to have medicine for innocent people. Whether or not this leads to anything further, it's very hard to tell.

HARLOW: Where do you think this goes in terms of these hostages? I mean these two, and their poor families having to, you know, go through seeing that video and then learning now that they have died. You still have, I think it's 136 still remaining hostages that are being held. How does this end for them?

HARDEN: I mean, it's very unpredictable. But I will say that the region is now deeply in flames, and it's likely just to get worse. I would - I would also say, on October 7th or October 8th, no one would have envisioned that the Houthis would have been able to shut down global shipping through the Red Sea. That goes to the unpredictability of this conflict. And I think that's what we're likely to experience going forward.

HARLOW: Just to - just to clarify for people, sort of the connection here, right, this is the Houthi's response to the west, the United States, et cetera, support for Israel in this war. HARDEN: Correct.

HARLOW: And now you have the U.S. responding three times militarily.

[06:40:02]

And the question is, has it already become a regional conflict? We talk about, don't let this widen out. I mean it seems widened already.

HARDEN: We're in a regional conflict. There's no doubt about it. Of course, you have Israel and Hamas and Gaza. You have Hezbollah and Lebanon and Israel. Just yesterday there were strikes by the Iranians in Syria, Pakistan and Iraq. And, of course, the United States has now launched three air strikes against the Houthis in Yemen. This is regional.

The question before us is, does this deepen further into a direct conflict with Iran and the United States.

MATTINGLY: There have long been contentions, including as recently in the last couple of days, when you talk to U.S. officials they say Iran does not want that kind of conflict. They're not going to push it over that line. My question has long been, how do you know what the line is, and how do you ensure that people don't make the mistakes or an error that inadvertently pushes you over that line?

HARDEN: I mean that's a great - that's a great point. There's -- there are incentives now that are pushing forward to deeper conflict. And you see this with the Houthis in Yemen. But let's be clear, both Russia and China get advantage if Iran goes into a direct conflict with either Israel or the United States. And so this is at a tipping point where it could very easily spill out of control. And the Israelis, in many regards too would - would value a direct confrontation between the United States and Iran. So, we're - we're really in an unpredictable but dangerous situation. And the - and the air strikes against the Houthis aren't going to resolve the Red Sea shipping.

HARLOW: Do you agree with Secretary Blinken who, this morning, said there's a profound opportunity for regionalism in the Middle East. And what he means is, you have all these Arab countries willing to sort of normalize relations with Israel if there is an agreement to a two- state solution.

HARDEN: I mean I think he's spinning this very optimistically. There has to be a Palestinian state. The United States should recognize Palestine. The Palestinians and the Israelis aren't leaving the region. They both live there and they're both not going anywhere. And they can't get divorced. So, at the end of the day, even though Bibi Netanyahu finds it unpalatable to have a Palestinian state, there needs to be a state that can live in peace and in security with Israel.

Saudi Arabia will remain key to all of this. And it's important that Saudi/Israeli -- Saudi/Israeli normalization deal goes forward.

HARLOW: Dave Harden, we appreciate your time. Thank you.

HARDEN: Thank you, Poppy. Thank you. Thank you, Phil.

MATTINGLY: Well, in the next few hours, the Supreme Court will hear arguments about the regulatory powers of the federal government. It's a case that could have monumental consequences. We'll explain why, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:47:14]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Will Chevron deference be overturned in this country?

The question of Chevron deference.

Overturn Chevron deference.

It's about something called Chevron deference.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Did you go looking for all those?

MATTINGLY: Folks, it's -- it's finally here. It -- happy - happy Chevron deference day to all who celebrate. And if you don't, you need to start celebrating. But especially to our own Poppy Harlow, who is deeply passionate about her family, her profession, but mostly Chevron deference.

HARLOW: Yes. It's true.

MATTINGLY: The high court will hear arguments today in a case about oversight fees on fishing boats, which sounds very niche, kind of weedsy, but could have massive implications for the federal government's regulatory power. Why, Poppy?

HARLOW: It is true. Let me tell you. The justices could decide to -- I'm going to get you back for that one day -- to kneecap the ability of federal agencies to regulate big things like health care, our environment, the workplace. They could do away with a landmark 1984 ruling that, you guessed it, implemented Chevron deference. In simpler terms, it requires courts to defer or side with an agency's reasonable interpretation of what the court thinks is an ambiguous law passed by Congress. Weedsy, yes. Important, definitely!

That's why we have our senior Supreme Court justice -- justice and analyst -- you would be a great, great justice. I'm just saying. Joan Biskupic here from Washington.

Help make my case that this matters to everyone.

JOAN BISKUPIC, CNN SENIOR SUPREME COURT ANALYST: Sure, and -- I love that. Phil, nice going. And, you know, to all who celebrate, and Poppy, definitely celebrates Chevron deference day.

You know, one scholar calls this an accidental landmark. When it came out in 1984 people didn't realize how much it was going to mean to agency authority and expertise over air pollution, workplace hazards, you know, drugs, medical fraud. It's -- you know, it's so important to the expertise that regulators bring to these fields. But what's happened is that critics say it's created this runaway bureaucracy.

Now, what did Chevron say? The case dates to 1984. And it arises from the fact that Congress often passes open-ended, ambiguous statutes and leaves the details to Congress. And when disputes arise, what this landmark case says is that as long as an agency's interpretation of its statutory mandate is reasonable, in and of itself, an open-ended word, is reasonable, then the agency interpretation should stand.

Now, there are all sorts of critics out there of this, especially wealthy critics such as the Charles Koch Foundation that's helped finance this case.

[06:50:01]

But we're going to see where the court goes today with it, Poppy.

MATTINGLY: Joan, and, first, I need to give credit where its due. Grace, Poppy's producer, I think a prerequisite to be Poppy's producer is you have to be an expert on Chevron deference. And this was her idea.

HARLOW: True story.

MATTINGLY: And she's the brilliance behind - behind anything funny we ever do.

HARLOW: Also true.

MATTINGLY: But I do want to ask you, you have this great story, Joan, about the unique perspective that Neil Gorsuch has on this specific issue. Explain that.

BISKUPIC: That's right. Well, the Chevron case itself arose when Ann Gorsuch, Neil Gorsuch's mother, was head of the Environmental Protection Agency. She was part of the Reagan revolution, anti- deregulatory revolution. She was in office, tangled with Congress. In fact, was even held in contempt of Congress. And when she was forced out, she wrote in her own memoir, Neil, son Neil, who was only 15 at the time, said, you shouldn't have quit. You taught me not to be a quitter. You shouldn't be a quitter.

But Neil Gorsuch has separately, perhaps inspired by his mother's own emphasis, has really opposed agency latitude here and in urging his colleagues to take up a case like it's taking up today has said, "rather than say what the law is, we tell those who come before us to go ask a bureaucrat, we place a finger on the scales of justice in favor of the most powerful of litigants, the federal government, and against everyone else." I expect him to be a major player today, Poppy and Phil, but I also

want to tell you that he's got several colleagues on the bench with him who also oppose Chevron deference, despite Poppy's enthusiasm.

MATTINGLY: Yes, it's a big day for Poppy.

HARLOW: And the country!

MATTINGLY: The piece is great. The piece is great. It's on cnn.com. Streamers, cake, champagne for Chevron deference day.

Joan Biskupic, thank you, as always, my friend.

HARLOW: Thank you, Joan.

BISKUPIC: Thank you. Thanks.

HARLOW: Grace.

A new Miss America has just been crowned.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Miss Colorado!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: Miss America, Madison Marsh, who, by the way, is a 22-year- old U.S. Air Force officer, is going to join us live, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:56:08]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Your Miss America 2024 is Miss Colorado, Madson Marsh.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: That U.S. Air Force officer, Madison Marsh, landing the 2024 Miss America crown. The 22-year-old second lieutenant and pilot selected is the first active duty service member ever to be named Miss America.

MATTINGLY: And Marsh was crowned Miss Colorado back in May while juggling classics in physics and astronomy at the U.S. Air Force Academy. She's now pursuing a masters degree in public policy at the Harvard Kennedy School and using her platform to advocate for an issue that is near and dear to her heart, pancreatic cancer research and education after she lost her mom to the disease at the age of 41 back in 2018.

Miss America, Madison Marsh, joins us now for her first national interview since being crowned. So many congratulations.

MADISON MARSH, FIRST ACTIVE-DUTY SERVICE MEMBER CROWNED MISS AMERICA: Thank you so much.

HARLOW: You have broken so many barriers. It is wonderful to have you here.

I want people to listen to part of what you presented as your talent. This is what you said in your spoken word piece that was centered on receiving a pilot's license at age 16.

Here you were.

MARSH: Yes.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARSH: I'm flying at 3,000 feet and there's no instructor here to check my speed, altitude or runway spacing. I'm 16 years old and I alone must rely on my training, instinct, and determination.

It's been more than six years since that first solo flight, and I'm now an active duty officer for the United States Air Force. Whether I'm seated in the cockpit or standing in my crown, I know the sky is not the limit.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Other than the question of what you can't do, because it seems like there is nothing, what will you do with this honor?

MARSH: Oh, my gosh, I am just really, really excited to be the first military member to hold the crown, because I feel like that really breaks a lot of stereotypes in pageants and military for women all across the globe. And I want people to know that you can do both, because I feel like sometimes, there's this negative stereotype about women in the military. And I hope that they can see that you can serve beyond your uniform. And that's what I hope to do this year as Miss America, and really pouring into my side of pancreatic cancer research and advocacy for my mom, because I feel like there are a lot of people that we can be doing even more work for. And so I want to dedicate a lot of my year of service to focusing on those two issues.

MATTINGLY: You know, on that front, you were asked what you learned from the grief of losing your mother, and you said, the value of time. I'm being able to be in the here and now. What are you going to do now? Expand on that. What does that mean for the year ahead in terms of how you're going to work on those issues?

MARSH: I mean the sky is not the limit, as I said in my talent, and so I'm really excited to continue to work with some congressional members. Maybe there is some specific pieces of legislation or funding lines that we can be working towards in pancreatic cancer. I'm super excited. I have a meeting this afternoon, but I won't say with who yet because it hasn't been announced, but I'm very excited to work with some national and potentially international entities for pancreatic cancer because I think this is going to go a lot more than the type of legislation that we can pass because there's so much advocacy and education surrounding pancreatic cancer that I want to ensure that people know about all across the globe.

HARLOW: What do you think your mom would say? No doubt she's looking down on you.

MARSH: I think she would just be so happy. I was - I was talking to someone last night on the phone and she obviously never got to see me even start competing in pageants because I started my first year at the Air Force Academy, and I just remember, I got a very special call from my congressman the night before she passed away letting me know that I got early admission to the Air Force Academy. And so it was just a very surreal moment knowing that before she passed she knew that I was going to achieve one of my biggest goals of going to the academy.

[07:00:01]

And this, getting to wear this is all for her. And I hope that she knows that and the rest of America can see that as well.