Return to Transcripts main page

CNN This Morning

Haley Campaigns in New Hampshire as DeSantis Moves On; Trump Balancing Campaign and Court Appearances; House Speaker: Rumored Senate Immigration Deal is 'Dead on Arrival'. Aired 6-6:30a ET

Aired January 18, 2024 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[06:00:12]

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Five days to go before New Hampshire. Donald Trump is test driving Nikki Haley's electability argument. Why Trump says he is the only one who can beat Joe Biden in November.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN ANCHOR: And new overnight: the U.S. launching new airstrikes at Iran-backed militants in Yemen. And two neighboring countries trade strikes as fears grow of a wider war.

And a border deal could be dead on arrival on Capitol Hill. What House Speaker -- what the House speaker told CNN just hours after a critical meeting at the White House.

CNN THIS MORNING starts right now.

HARLOW: Good morning, everyone. So glad you're with us. I'm Poppy Harlow with Phil Mattingly in New York.

We've got five days to go from what could be a decisive moment in the Republican presidential race. Donald Trump is focusing his attacks on Nikki Haley as he seeks to deliver a knockout blow in the New Hampshire primary. Trump is now co-opting Haley's electability message. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT, 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If she wins, Biden wins. And I'm telling you that. A vote for Nikki Haley this Tuesday is a vote for Joe Biden and a Democrat Congress this November, because that's what's going to happen.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: And the clock, of course, is ticking. Anxious Republicans who are still opposed to Trump urging Haley to take him on more aggressively. Last night at a rally, Haley took a swipe at Trump's age.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NIKKI HALEY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The majority of Americans have said they don't want their options to be two 80-year-olds for president. We've got to move past that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: The Granite State quickly shifting into a two-candidate battle. Ron DeSantis appearing to be ceding the state almost entirely, pulling out staff and resources, sending them to South Carolina instead for next month's primary as his campaign right now appears to be just scrambling to survive.

His super PAC began layoffs after Trump's blowout victory in Iowa, and Trump is now openly predicting DeSantis won't be around much longer.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: What the hell happened to Ron? Does anybody know what happened to -- I think I happened to Ron.

I think he's going to be gone. I think all of those -- applause, that was funny. But I think he's -- I think you can probably save him for about a week or so, because I think he's going to be gone.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: We'll see. Omar Jimenez, live for us in Manchester, New Hampshire, this morning. Good morning, Omar. Haley is really the only one campaigning there today, right?

OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's really what we're looking for today. Haley has an event a little bit later this morning.

The DeSantis campaign, despite not being here, says or claims that they are in it for the long haul and hoping to continue focusing winning states down the road.

But bottom line, they are not going to be here between now and election day. And it's something Nikki Haley is hoping to take advantage of.

Meanwhile, former President Trump is also in full campaign mode, represented by the two places we've seen him most.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JIMENEZ (voice-over): Donald Trump juggling the courtroom and the campaign.

TRUMP: But I'm thrilled to be back in the great state of New Hampshire.

JIMENEZ (voice-over): The former president rallied voters in New Hampshire last night after he willingly spent most of the day in a New York courtroom, hearing E. Jean Carroll testify against him in her civil defamation trial.

TRUMP: That's a nasty man. He's a nasty judge. He's a Trump-hating guy. JIMENEZ (voice-over): Trump clashed with Judge Louis Kaplan, who

threatened to throw him out of the trial for speaking within earshot of the jury. "I understand you're probably very eager for me to do that," the judge told Trump, Trump responding, "I would love it."

TRUMP: This is a person I had no idea, until this happened, obviously. I have no idea who she was, and nor could I care less. It's a rigged deal. It's a made-up, fabricated story.

JIMENEZ (voice-over): Carroll is seeking more than $10 million in damages after a judge found Trump liable for his 2019 defamatory statements about Carroll's sexual assault allegations.

HALEY: Chaos follows him, and we can't have a country in disarray and a world on fire and go through four more years of chaos. We won't survive it.

JIMENEZ (voice-over): Back in New Hampshire, Nikki Haley is focusing her campaign squarely on Donald Trump, hitting back after a number of policy and personal attacks by Trump, including using her birth name, Nimarata, in a post widely seen as a racist dog whistle.

HALEY: Now, I know Trump threw a temper tantrum about me last night.

JIMENEZ: Trump hit Haley for the support she's drawn from outside the Republican Party in the state.

[06:05:04]

TRUMP: Nikki Haley is counting on Democrats.

The radical left Democrats are supporting Nikki Haley, because they know she's much easier to beat than Trump.

JIMENEZ (voice-over): Meanwhile, with no clear path in New Hampshire and two debates now canceled, Governor Ron DeSantis appears to be shifting his focus to South Carolina, his super PAC beginning layoffs and setting the stage for a likely final stand in Haley's home state.

GOV. RON DESANTIS (R-FL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I want to pick up -- Doug (ph), it's everyone that goes out and votes for me is going to help me get delegates, and that's what we want to do.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

JIMENEZ (on camera): And we were at a town hall of DeSantis's yesterday and -- where he was still asking for folks in New Hampshire for their vote. And he did acknowledge, when he was asked about it, that he probably will be back in the state on Sunday. But we will see.

In the meantime, Nikki Haley, essentially, got her two-person race confirmation, at least here in New Hampshire. The question is, can she capitalize on it? And if she does, it would pose the most serious challenge we have seen yet to the former president.

HARLOW: All right. Omar Jimenez, up early. Thanks. Appreciate it. MATTINGLY: Joining us now to discuss, former Republican strategist and

pollster, Lee Carter; former Tim Scott presidential campaign senior adviser, Matt Gorman; and CNN political analyst and historian, Leah Wright Rigueur.

Leah, I want to start with you, because the -- the kind of whole push right now is can you get the independents? Can you get New Hampshire's very different electorate from Iowa to give you a shot, right, to keep this race going beyond next Tuesday?

Haley made the point, basically, if you're not in it now, don't complain. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HALEY: But the only way we're going to win is if we elect a new conservative generational leader and put the negativity and the baggage behind; and focus on the solutions of the future.

Don't complain about what happens in a general election if you don't play in this primary on Tuesday.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: Do you think that message -- I've heard from some Republicans who are saying she has to go harder at Trump right now. Like, this is it; light everything on fire, basically. That message, is that effective for this electorate?

LEAH WRIGHT RIGUEUR, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST AND HISTORIAN: It's effective, but this is also the moment for her to take risks and for her to put it all in the basket, because this is not the time to play it safe.

It's not the time to say, you know what? I'm going to play nice with the former president of the United States because if the former president of the United States wins this, which it looks like he will, it's over. It's over for her campaign.

It's not likely that she will win the other -- any of the other primary contests.

And it also means -- it puts forward a narrative about her campaign and her coming in second. She already came in third in the Iowa caucuses.

And I think part of what she has to do is really hit home two different things. One, this idea of the future of the Republican Party. What do we want the Republican Party to look like? What do we want it to stand for?

But then, also, the policy aspect of the party which, it turns out, Republican voters do care about; Republican voters in New Hampshire really do care about.

And so she started to do some of that. We saw her critique Trump on things like Social Security, on things like the gas credit, on his age, on Biden's age.

But, you know, for right now, while she's painted a vision that I think is about stability in the midst of chaos, in the midst of Trump's chaos, it's not enough. She has to do so much more, including taking these very large risks and taking it directly to Trump, if she wants to make a splash and continue on in this contest.

HARLOW: Matt, you've helped run a presidential campaign, Tim Scott. Will Nikki Haley do that? The knock on her has been, what does she really think?

MATT GORMAN, FORMER TIM SCOTT PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN ADVISOR: Yes.

HARLOW: She's trying to have it all ways with all people. To Leah's point, isn't this the moment when you have to say what you really think, put it all on the table, be incredibly clear?

GORMAN: I think you also have to be strategic. Trump is still the most popular figure in our party.

HARLOW: So that's a no.

GORMAN: Well, to be --

HARLOW: From the strategists.

GORMAN: Trump is the most popular figure in our party. If you go full anti -- as if you're running from him on the left --

HARLOW: Isn't that how you get the undeclareds in New Hampshire?

GORMAN: That's also how you lose Republicans. It's still a Republican primary.

And also, too, a lot -- if she happens to do well, wins or comes in very close, South Carolina looks a lot more like Iowa in terms of the demographics, and beyond.

You can't go full scorched earth. Because if you do win -- and she can win the way she's going right now. It's still a tossup. You still have a long way to go.

LEE CARTER, FORMER REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST AND POLLSTER: And I think it's really a bad strategy to be reactive. If all you're doing right now is lighting Trump on fire, that means that's all you're trying to do.

And right now when you talk to voters, voters say -- 82 percent of Iowans who voted for Donald Trump said, he cares about people like me. There's a huge number of people who say Trump is a fighter for people like me.

When they talk about Nikki Haley, what do they say? They say she's -- she's able to beat Donald Trump. They say that she's the next- generation leadership. It's about her, not us. And that's a big distinction. What Nikki Haley needs to be doing right now is what is it going to look like for me if Nikki Haley is president? And no one can answer that except saying that she's younger and has a better chance in the polls.

[06:10:09]

That's not personal; that's not emotional; that's not visceral. And she's missing a big moment there, I think, to really make her case.

MATTINGLY: My biggest question, Matt, for you at this point, beyond the -- like, Trump co-opting the electability thing is -- the hilarity of that, when he lost the House, the Senate and the White House over the course of his four years shouldn't be lost on anybody at this moment in time.

But to the point both you and Lee are making, based on what you saw when you were in the campaign, is there any path for anyone else right now?

GORMAN: One of the biggest hurdles we suddenly had on the campaign trail was when Trump started winning general election head-to-head matchups against Joe Biden, because --

HARLOW: Which he didn't do.

GORMAN: Which he didn't do for a long time, and he didn't do for much of the campaign, I would say, until the fall.

It took away the best argument for Tim, Nikki and Ron, who -- we would see people and talk to people: I like Trump. I just don't think he can win again.

Suddenly, poll after poll, it gives them license. You know what? Maybe he can, and they can go with their gut.

MATTINGLY: You could really see it. It had that much impact.

GORMAN: The way they really -- It took away their best argument, the electability argument. If he's losing by five or ten points, vis-a-vis Joe Biden, I swear this is a different primary campaign. Because they have to factor in their head versus who's going to win versus their heart. They may love Trump, but he probably can't win. That's not the case anymore.

HARLOW: Thank you. Stick around.

So you can also watch Nikki Haley. She's going to be in a CNN town hall tonight moderated by our very own Jake Tapper. That is 9 p.m. Eastern, right here on CNN.

MATTINGLY: Well, Donald Trump says four words that really, quite literally, revealed the campaign game he's playing right now in court. A judge rebukes him for interrupting E. Jean Carroll and threatens to go even further. HARLOW: Also, new overnight, Pakistan strikes Iran in response to

Iran's deadly attacks yesterday. Why this will likely inflame the already tenuous situation in the Middle East.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:15:38]

MATTINGLY: Donald Trump lashing out in court, loudly, calling the defamation lawsuit against him a, quote, "witch-hunt." Sounds familiar.

And while his accuser was testifying, he said audibly in open court, "It really is a con job."

Now we've heard that language from him before, a lot, but after that, he said the quiet part out loud. The judge in the case warned Trump he could be kicked out of court if the behavior continued saying, quote, "I understand you're very eager for me to do that."

And then Trump said four very telling words, quote, "I would love it."

HARLOW: Why would he love it? He has made no secret about why: votes and money. He has already said that he believes the 91 criminal counts that he is facing are helping him on the campaign trail. Here's a reminder.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: If I didn't get indicted all these times and if they didn't unfairly go after me, I would have won, but it would have been much closer, I tell you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: And think about this. His two biggest fund-raising days so far have been the first time he was indicted and when that mug shot was released after he was booked in Georgia.

Bottom line: playing the victim works for the former president on the campaign trail, and he has been telling us that all along.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: This is a political witch-hunt the likes of which nobody's ever seen before. And I did nothing wrong. Absolutely nothing wrong.

This is a witch-hunt, and it's a very corrupt trial.

It's political warfare, as you would call it, or political law fare.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: Lee Carter and Leah Wright Rigueur are back with us now, along with CNN senior legal analyst Elie Honig. Elie, the thing I was thinking throughout the course of the day yesterday is, if a normal person was sitting in that district courtroom doing what Trump was doing, what would have happened?

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Would have been thrown out. Judge Kaplan is a no-nonsense judge. He's a zero-nonsense judge in that federal courthouse.

And to be muttering under your breath continually, even after being warned by the judge, in a way that the jury can hear, would get you an escort out of the courtroom.

I think Judge Kaplan is being careful here. He controls his courtroom. I think if Donald Trump continues to push, that may well happen.

But you all identified the -- the four most important words, "I would love that." I mean, that's why he's there. Nothing could serve his purposes better.

And I want to be clear, there's some legal strategy happening here. There's no question, though, this is political. I mean, just keep in mind, he didn't even go to the first trial, which was really, in a way, higher stakes.

Now the result of the first trial that he's liable, they carry over to this trial.

So it's interesting to see the two of them, Judge Kaplan and Donald Trumps, two alphas, I would say, in their own environments, go at it. Ultimately, Judge Kaplan is going to prevail, but ultimately, that may play to Donald Trump's advantage.

HARLOW: Leah, "I would love it," is that a sign of what is to come? He's got a couple of trials ahead.

RIGUEUR: Oh, it's absolutely a sign of what's to come. It's a sign of what we can all look forward to over the next couple of months as all of these -- kind of this multitude of trials come forward.

Donald Trump has already told us that he will be attending all of these trials. In addition to the trials he does not have to attend, he doesn't have to be present for, as he doesn't -- as he didn't have to be present for several of the trials that we've had over the last couple of weeks.

But it is a political strategy that is really, really smart for him right now. It has helped raise his profile. It has moved him from kind of being a ghost, in a lot of ways, in the kind of -- in the political apparatus, in the institution of the Republican Party, someone whose career was over, to now he is a victim. He is someone who needs to be protected. He is someone who needs to be supported.

He's managed, as you mentioned, to raise an incredible amount of money off of this.

And I think the more that we see of this, it just really strengthens his case to the Republican Party at large.

And I think it's -- one of the things that's really important here is that it's not just -- the way that he's framing this is that these things are not just a legal and political attack on Donald Trump. They're a legal and political attack on the world of Donald Trump and Trump supporters.

And so that is part of how, really, I think, he has made this into kind of a political project that has really resonated with a large swath of the Republican base.

MATTINGLY: Lee, we've talked at length about how effective it's been. You have pages --

CARTER: Pages.

MATTINGLY: -- of notes that explain that in great detail and in a very helpful manner.

The question that I keep coming back to is, once this nomination is wrapped up, if that, in fact, becomes the case, how are non- Republicans viewing things like this? How are non-Republicans viewing these antics, these strategies, the way he's putting this stuff to the forefront?

[06:20:08]

CARTER: Well, I think there's the question of how Democrats are viewing it and how independents are viewing it. And Democrats are viewing it really, really negatively. So it's going to -- in many ways, it's energizing people to go out and vote for Joe Biden that otherwise wouldn't.

But then there's this middle ground of folks and people who are independents, who really, there's very few true independents. Most align one way or the other but they refuse the label. Who say, I might hate the way that he acts, except that I like some of his policies.

Or they believe the system is corrupt. I mean, more than 70 percent of Americans right now believe that there's a two-tier system of justice. One of the things that he talks about. They believe that the system is unfair, that it's rigged to treat the elite differently than the rest of everybody else.

And so this idea that Donald Trump can come in and blow up that model, that he's willing to fight back, that he's not afraid of all of the usual things, is appealing to a very, very large group of people.

And that's why you're seeing the states that matter most, those seven states that matter most, poll after poll is saying that Donald Trump can beat Joe Biden.

And it's hard to understand for people who look at this and think he's nuts, but for those who really like this message, this idea of someone who's going to go fight for them, fight -- he talks about this isn't just about him. This is about us. They're coming after all of us. If they can do this to me, they can do it to all of us, and it's very effective for a lot of people.

HONIG: I think there's a group in the middle, as well, to Lee's point, that looks at this and just says, OK, when he says it's a pile-on, it starts to feel like that at a certain point.

I'm not saying any of these cases individually are unjustified. But when you look at someone who, in the course of 18 months or so, has been charged with four criminal indictments; at least three major civil suits, including E. Jean Carroll now twice; dozens of these 14th Amendment challenges, which I think are all about to crash and be rejected by the Supreme Court, you can understand how somebody -- first of all, you can understand how people can't keep it straight.

I mean, we usually use that magic wall to put it visually, because it's so much. But it does play into -- it's almost like a jujitsu move by Donald Trump. You use the other person's momentum against them to say this is a pile-on.

HARLOW: And you're saying this as a former federal prosecutor who knows what it takes to go after someone. And you're saying this many cases of this magnitude in this period of time.

HONIG: Yes. And again, you can look at any of these cases, and I can absolutely defend the criminal charges. I can absolutely defend the civil cases. I don't think it's necessarily anyone's fault.

But I think when you take them all, the mass of them, I do think it plays into the point that Lee and Leah have been making.

MATTINGLY: Yes. It's -- and it's a very effective point. I would say that maybe we could package something where, like, Elie and the Magic Wall is available to everyone in their home at all times to explain. Because that's how I figure it out on a day-to-day basis.

HONIG: Can we transport that thing?

MATTINGLY: Yes, I mean, there's a smaller version, a digital version we can utilize. Thank you, guys, very much.

HARLOW: So President Biden trying to broker a deal on the border and also funding for Ukraine and Israel. House Speaker Mike Johnson telling Kaitlan Collins on CNN what could happen to any deal that reaches the chamber.

MATTINGLY: And the U.S. strikes back after Iran-backed militants hit another U.S. flagship in the Red Sea. What else the U.S. is doing to stop those attacks. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:27:00]

MATTINGLY: It is 26 past the hour. That is Washington, D.C., both sides of Pennsylvania avenue. You're looking at those live pictures.

House Speaker Mike Johnson is currently in that city, casting very serious doubt on whether Congress can pass a bipartisan immigration deal. It comes after top congressional leaders met with {resident Biden at the White House on Wednesday.

Now, Republicans are blocking Biden's Ukraine aid request over strict border policies that they passed in the House last year. Speaking to CNN last night, Johnson would not commit to bring a deal to the House floor without those policies, even if it passes the U.S. Senate.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA): If the best we can get does not solve the problem and not stem the flow, then it will not be acceptable on the House side. And I have said that very clearly from day one. We have to solve the problem. This is not about getting political points for one side or the other. It's about solving the problem that is now a crisis for every community. Every state is a border state now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Arlette Saenz joins us at the White House with more.

This is after he left that meeting with the president. Some Democrats projected optimism after the meeting. Not as much from Speaker Johnson, unless they kind of get everything they want, it sounds like.

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, and you know, the White House officials say President Biden really went into this meeting trying to inject a new sense of urgency in getting this aid to Ukraine passed.

But he's running up against the political reality that this is complicated amid Republicans' push for border policy changes.

Now, the White House and President Biden really used this roughly 80- minute meeting to try to lay out the stakes for Ukraine as this aid is currently faltering over in Congress.

National security adviser Jake Sullivan and Avril Haines, the director of national intelligence, really laid out point by point what the real-world impacts would be to Ukraine on the battlefield, even pointing to classified information as they made their case.

The White House said that the president in his meeting discussed, quote, "the strategic consequences of inaction for Ukraine, the United States and the world. He was clear Congress's continued failure to act endangers the United States' national security, the NATO alliance, and the rest of the free world."

The White House also said that President Biden did acknowledge that he believes that there needs to be action taken now to address -- to address some of the issues on the U.S. Southern border. And that is where these -- these negotiations and talks have really been stuck.

The approach for how to address border policy is currently at odds up on Capitol Hill. You have those Senate negotiators, Republicans and Democrats, who have been working to try to reach some type of agreement for weeks now. The White House has made concessions in these talks.

But House Speaker Mike Johnson said that what is being proposed at this moment is simply dead on arrival in the House.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHNSON: If the bill looks like some of the things that have been rumored, of course it's dead in the House. Because it wouldn't solve the problem. You can't just do pieces of this and leave, for example, parole untouched, leave the current broken parole process untouched, because it's a giant loophole that would allow all these people to continue to come in.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SAENZ: And so this really speaks to the precarious nature of these talks right now, even as you had congressional leaders coming out of that meeting with the president saying that it was productive.

[06:30:00]