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CNN This Morning

Trump Back in Court for Carroll Case; A Look at the Presidential Race; Bills Lose to the Chiefs; Young New Hampshire Voters on State of GOP Primary. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired January 22, 2024 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:30:00]

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back to Maryanne's Diner (ph) in New Hampshire, where the coffee is -

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN ANCHOR: Excellent.

HARLOW: Excellent. And the eggs, I think, smell pretty good. We'll have to see.

Former President Trump, though, taking a detour from this critical primary state today. And he is going to be in the courtroom in New York City for the E. Jean Carroll defamation case against him. Big question is if he's going to take the stand and testify. Carroll's lawyers are expected to rest soon. First, they may play that infamous "Access Hollywood" tape in court. They are also planning to present new evidence, including new posts on Trump's Truth Social, things he wrote even last week, like this one where Trump claims he never heard of Carroll before she brought the case.

MATTINGLY: CNN's Kara Scannell is live for us outside the courthouse in New York with more.

And, Kara, when we look ahead to the next couple of hours this morning, the course of today, what do we expect to happen?

KARA SCANNELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, good morning, Phil and Poppy.

So, Donald Trump is expected to arrive just a short time from now at this courthouse, where he will be sitting in the same courtroom with E. Jean Carroll again. And what we expect today is that Carroll will call her final witness in this case, is her former boss at "Elle" magazine, where she wrote the "Ask E. Jean" advice column for nearly three decades. After that her lawyers are expected to play excerpts of Trump's videotaped deposition that we saw last year at the same trial where Trump is asked questions, including shown a photograph of Carroll and Trump at a charity event, and he mistakes her for his former wife, Marla Maples. So, we're expecting to see some of his videotape deposition while Trump will be in the room. He has reacted, the times he's been in the courtroom, to what's popped up on screens or to testimony. So, that is expected to be played. They also said they want to play some more of these out of court statements that Trump has made. Now, the question for this jury is not whether Trump has defamed

Carroll. That was determined by a jury last year. The issue for them is, was Carroll harmed, and what kind of damages may Trump have to pay. And that is why they want to play these videotapes because they're showing that he has not stopped making statements that are defamatory, even after the jury reached their verdict last year.

But once Carroll rests her case, then it will be Donald Trump's turn. Now he has said he - his lawyers said that they may want to call one of Carroll's friends. But the biggest question is, does Donald Trump take the stand today. And if he does, the judge has made it clear, Trump cannot say that he didn't rape Carroll, he can't call her a liar and he can't question her motivation. So, his testimony, if it happens, would be very limited. And as we saw last week, he has clashed with the judge, he has not wanted to abide by the orders. So, if he does take the stand, it is expected to be a pretty tense moment.

Phil. Poppy.

MATTINGLY: Yes, staying within the confines, not exactly his strong suit in this particular trial.

Kara Scannell, keep us posted. Thank you.

Well, the politics of grievance, which we've seen in places like that courthouse, likely to be back on display when Trump heads back there today. We're going to take a look at whether the message will help or hurt him as he spends at least part of another day off the trail.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT AND 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This is a political witch hunt the likes of which nobody's ever seen before.

This is a witch hunt. And it's a very corrupt trial.

This political warfare, as you would call it, or political lawfare.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:36:29]

MATTINGLY: Well, just moments ago, Donald Trump leaving for court for that defamation lawsuit brought by writer E. Jean Carroll. He could testify today. We'll keep you posted on that. But when Trump goes to court, one thing is nearly guaranteed, he will be getting in front of a microphone afterwards to lay out a long list of grievances against the person accusing him, the judge, the Justice Department, President Biden, a random guy standing on the street, pretty much all of the above.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT AND 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I had the great life going. I had the greatest -- what the hell did I do? I got indicted more than Alphonse Capone.

This is a political witch hunt the likes of which nobody's ever seen before.

Well, I think it's very unfair when an opponent, a political opponent, is prosecuted by the DOJ, by Biden's DOJ.

This is a witch hunt. And it's a very corrupt trial.

It's very unfair. But in the meantime, the people of the country understand it. They see it. And they don't like it. They don't like it, because it's political warfare, as you would call it, or political lawfare.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Lawfare. Good blog.

Here's E. Jean Carroll, moments ago, walking into the federal courthouse where this case will resume today. Donald Trump will be there.

With us now, CNN political analyst Astead Herndon, and our chief national affairs correspondent Jeff Zeleny.

Good morning, guys.

ASTEAD HERNDON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Hi.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Good morning.

HARLOW: Well, it is just -- he knows how good this is for him. I guess he's lucky New Hampshire's pretty close to New York so he can go to court, he can come back here for a rally tonight and it keeps on helping him. Even Ron DeSantis has said as much.

ZELENY: Without a doubt. I mean this is the campaign. And when we used to say it was a split screen, this is the campaign.

HARLOW: The screen.

ZELENY: And you can really mark the timeline of the last year when the Republican base really started rallying behind him was the time of the Alvin Bragg indictment. And then it became even more so after the Fulton County case. And on and on. So, you really saw Republicans rallying in support of him because he portrayed himself as the victim and it allowed him to change the narrative.

And Ron DeSantis does that as well. I mean he says the indictments were the biggest reason he had some issues. He had some other reasons for issues, which we can talk about later.

HARLOW: Yes. ZELENY: But this is the central part of why Donald Trump is as strong as he is.

HARLOW: And just one follow-up on that. You -- I think it was March 20, 2023. If Jack Smith's cases had come first, and Alvin Braggs had come after, do you see what I'm saying -

HERNDON: Yes.

HARLOW: Do you think that that would have made a difference? Because there was polling a couple of months ago that said a majority of Republican voters would not vote for Trump if he were convicted in one of Smith's cases.

HERNDON: Yes. I think that's one of the key what ifs of the last year.

HARLOW: Yes.

HERNDON: The fact that that Alvin Bragg indictment came first definitely linked itself for Donald Trump to be able to call this a more politicized witch hunt and it just leaned into the kind of rhetoric we've seen over Republican in the last year, specifically the idea that progressive prosecutors in these cities were coming for Republicans. That's a little different with the federal indictment.

HARLOW: Yes.

HERNDON: And even when you ask Trump voters about the specifics of the cases and whether any of these kind of - any of these incidents really register with them, they bring up the Alvin Bragg indictment. They kind of avoid the federal indictment.

HARLOW: Yes.

HERNDON: So, I do think it's an interesting kind of what if. But the truth is, you know, Republicans have been so in the tank for Donald Trump over the last three to four years. There was no permission structure for the voters to really kind of peel off from him over the last year. And so I do think that like whether the order of the indictments would change is interesting, but the overall energy of the party has been so clearly rallied around him that they're - you know, they're so invested in Trump, they can't afford for him to lose.

MATTINGLY: And, Jeff, to that point, can we play the sound that Jeff referenced from DeSantis on the indictment?

[08:40:02]

I just think it's fascinating, both for its salience and it's DeSantis making a good point.

Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. RON DESANTIS (R-FL), FORMER 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If I could have one thing change, I wish Trump hadn't been indicted on any of this stuff. I also think it distorted the primary in the last.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Because it's helped him? Is that what you're saying?

DESANTIS: It's both - both that, but then also -- it just crowded out, I think, so much other stuff and it sucked out a lot of oxygen.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: The thing that - the oxygen, I think, for sure. But if we think back to that moment, I mean, Trump coming out of his campaign announcement or campaign launch was not at a high point, was at his weakest point by far.

ZELENY: Right.

MATTINGLY: And to some degree oxygen, yes, but also forcing Republicans to defend him. Republicans like Ron DeSantis.

ZELENY: Right.

MATTINGLY: Everybody had to coalesce behind him. There was no opportunity to break away. The permission structure, it didn't exist. Is that fair or is that --

ZELENY: It's absolutely fair. And he actually tried. I'm thinking back to the day when Ron DeSantis, he was giving a - a press conference in the panhandle of Florida I think and he actually went after Trump for just a second and then had to walk it back because the blowback was so intense. A lot of this is how the Republican base gets its news. A lot of this is how the echo chamber that they are living in.

But it is so interesting. All year long in Iowa, here in New Hampshire, other state, you did find a lot of Republicans who were eager to move on. There's no doubt that that exists out there. But he has coalesced the Republican base at least that they want a rematch. They want vindication for what he's been saying all along.

So, now that this is a head-to-head race with Nikki Haley and Donald Trump, which she's been waiting for and calling for, is there enough time for one? We will see about that. New Hampshire has delivered so many surprises over the years. I'm thinking back to 2008. We thought on the morning before the primary Barack Obama was going to win.

MATTINGLY: Right.

ZELENY: He did not. Hillary Clinton did. But this is entirely different than that. History may not be our best guide here.

HERNDON: I was just going to say, let's not let Ron DeSantis off the hook here. I mean there was no evidence over the last year that as voters saw him more they liked him anymore. And so certainly there was a big problem for him and the indictments of Donald Trump and the base coalescing around him. But I think his biggest issue is, as a candidate he had proved to be someone that the voters had not connected with. And as voters saw more of him, his support got less. That was the core problem of it. That as the core problem of his candidacy.

HARLOW: And what the -- he won by such a big margin in Florida. "The New York Post" says he's de-future (ph). But he's young. What does that issue then that you nailed mean for him if he wants to keep running?

HERNDON: Well, I think he was squeezed particularly in this race. I mean the MAGA base that he really courted in Florida and really had circled around Donald Trump, to your point. But he made a couple - he made a couple ideological decisions to run from the right of Donald Trump. I think a lot of that energy we were seeing from him post- midterms, a lot of people thought of him as a more moderate alternatives. Someone who can get Trump without the baggage. He didn't ran a ace like that. He ran a race specifically to kind of be a more conservative, principled version of Trumpism.

HARLOW: Yes.

HERNDON: I think that's going to be a really interesting question. Does the 2028 version of Ron DeSantis look more like the moderate version we kind of saw as a four-year governance or look like the kind of hard core MAGA we saw as a presidential candidate.

HARLOW: Yes. Thanks.

MATTINGLY: This is glass (ph) straw. Those are the two words a senior Republican before he got in the race told me about him and it's forever rung in my head.

HARLOW: Glass (ph) straw.

MATTINGLY: And I think it was fairly accurate.

HERNDON: Yes.

MATTINGLY: Jeff ZELENY, Astead Herndon, appreciate you guys. Thank you.

HERNDON: Thank you.

HARLOW: Brother cheering on brother. Jason Kelce goes all out and shirtless for his brother in our "Morning Moment."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:47:35]

MATTINGLY: Well, as we sit here in New Hampshire this morning, the conference championship match-ups are set in the NFL. If you're in New Hampshire, you probably want the Patriots -- sorry, guys, not your year. It was, though, another dramatic playoff weekend. The Baltimore Ravens, San Francisco 49ers, and Detroit Lions all punched their tickets with wins in front of their home crowds. And for the third time in four years, the Kansas City Chiefs eliminated the Buffalo Bills from the playoffs, leaving Bills fans destroyed.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Forty-four yards. Bass. No, he doesn't make it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Wide right. Wow.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The two most dreaded words in Buffalo have surfaced again.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Joining us now is CNN's senior data reporter Harry Enten, in Buffalo.

Did you cry? Are you crying inside?

MATTINGLY: Did you lose your razor?

HARLOW: Didn't you say you wanted to see Taylor Swift cry on Friday, Harry? We kept - we can keep going here.

HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR DATA REPORTER: Yes. Yes, you know, all I can say is, well, that sucked. Awful. I mean, you know, I wasn't really cognizant of the first wide right back in '91. I'll certainly be remembering this one for a long period of time. That's two wide rights for the Buffalo Bills. And their stretch of not winning a Super Bowl continues on. They haven't won a single one dating all the way back since 1967.

There are a bunch of teams on that list. The Lions perhaps will be one team that will break that streak. Obviously, they're in the NFC championship game. But the fact is, that truly stunk. But I'll be a Bills fan for as long as it takes. I don't care if I pass on, I will be rooting for them in heaven if hopefully I make it.

But the bottom line is, that stunk, but welcome to being a Buffalo Bills fan.

MATTINGLY: Harry, can I ask you, because it was difficult for me on Friday when two cultural icons were battling it out, you and Taylor Swift, because before the game you said this. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ENTEN: I will note, the Bills have already beaten the Chiefs in Kansas City when Taylor Swift showed up. So, while I do enjoy Taylor Swift's music, as I know you do, we're both Swifties at heart, I'm hoping she's probably crying at the end of Sunday because that will mean my Buffalo Bills have won.

[08:50:01]

So, this is the one time I am rooting against Taylor Swift. I'm sorry, Swifties, I've got to do it.

(END VIDEO CLIP) MATTINGLY: Yes, Harry, I saw a lot of tears in the stands. Taylor Swift was not among the people crying. Any regrets with that commentary?

ENTEN: No. No regrets. I wish the Kansas City Chiefs had lost. But the fact is, I love the fact that Taylor Swift is involved in football. We've got a lot more people rooting for football, rooting for teams, being involved in the games. So, I think Taylor Swift is a good thing involved in football, I just wish that the outcome last night was different.

MATTINGLY: Wow, a lot more diplomatic after a loss. Maybe a little intimidated, too, after Jason Kelce's shirtlessness.

HARLOW: Shirtless.

MATTINGLY: Which was ideal (ph).

HARLOW: Amaing.

MATTINGLY: Harry Enten, we love you, buddy. Come back. Oh, there's Jason Kelce. Again, the ideal male form.

Harry, come back to New York. Find a razor. We love you. We're here to hug you.

HARLOW: Oh. Thanks, Harry.

ENTEN: And next - next time I'm out in the cold, I'll do the bare chest thing, as well. Bye.

MATTINGLY: Oh, good - that's great for ratings. See you, buddy.

HARLOW: Can't wait for that.

A new study finds that one-fifth of eligible voters here in New Hampshire have not voted in a primary before. Two young voters join us to talk about who they're supporting and why as age becomes a big factor in this race.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:55:39]

HARLOW: Welcome back, live from New Hampshire.

A new study from the University of New Hampshire shows about 22 percent of eligible voters in this primary have not voted before. They're either new to the state or hit voting age just after the 2020 election. Among voters 18-34 in the state, the final CNN poll found that Nikki Haley holds a one-point lead over Donald Trump.

MATTINGLY: With us now, 24-year-old Drew Dickinson, who's voting for Nikki Haley. He is a master's student at the University of New Hampshire. He's the state board vice chair of the state college Republicans. And 18-year-old high school student, James Thibault, who's voting for Trump. James is the chairman of the state Legislative Youth Advisory Council.

And, guys, thanks so much for joining us.

I want to start, James, with you.

JAMES THIBAULT, 18-YEAR-OLD VOTING FOR TRUMP: Sure.

MATTINGLY: When you talk to friends, when you talk to people that are this - maybe it's going to be their first election they're going to vote in, and they look at the Republican Party, what do they think? What draws them to Trump in your case?

THIBAULT: In the case of President Trump, a lot of it is the winning factor. I think a lot of people think that he's the only one who can beat President Trump in a general election and the energy that he's had in the past. He's a very energetic candidate, especially for his age. And, of course, there's also the fact that he's running on a past record, unlike Governor Haley who has been out of electoral politics for years now and as ambassador, you know, that was less of an electoral position in terms of economic policy and domestic policy as well.

HARLOW: Drew, you're a Haley supporter.

DREW DICKINSON, 24-YEAR-OLD VOTING FOR NIKKI HALEY: Yes, ma'am.

HARLOW: Talk about that, but also this interesting point you made to us about how sort of the philosophy of how young voters are casting their vote in this state. You think that has changed?

DICKINSON: Oh, absolutely. I think over time the young voters have, in New Hampshire, have swung it less from the extremes and have started to pull a little back more to the center. When it comes to the Republican voters, especially those who I believe are my age in the, you know, 18-24 range, it feels to me like there's a lot of people who are either polarized or they're not polarized. And those who aren't polarized, the, you know, moderates and the independents, it feels to me like they're more likely o swing for Nikki Haley. And those who are on the extremes, you know, not necessarily policy-wise but more just in the spectrum might be more probable to go for current President Biden or ex-President Trump.

MATTINGLY: How would you, if you could roughly gauge the breakdown between those who are the moderate center versus those to the extreme, because it feels like politics has changed so dramatically over the course of the last 10 years, and I don't know how that breaks down within younger voters.

DICKINSON: Absolutely. Without anecdotal evidence, kind of going off of my gut feeling, I would say it's probably 30, 30, 30. Obviously that doesn't add up to 100, but let's pretend that it does.

MATTINGLY: Yes.

DICKINSON: It feels to me like there's about 30 percent of the electoral base that is kind of in the center, you know, looking for an alternative option. Whether that be Nikki Haley or, you know, some -- somebody else. It feels to me like President Biden locks down a good portion of the vote. And at the same point, President Trump has that very, very strong segment of the base. They're not going anywhere. There's very little you can do to dissuade them. And that is one of the things that is - is very strong point for him due to the fact that they're not go anywhere.

MATTINGLY: Right.

HARLOW: You were on the DeSantis train.

THIBAULT: Yes.

HARLOW: A while ago. He's not in anymore.

THIBAULT: No.

HARLOW: What do you think his immediate endorsement of Trump, after being more critical of him than he'd ever been in the last couple of days, what do you think that means for Trump and for Nikki Haley in the state, or is it just a split and therefore a wash?

THIBAULT: I think that - I mean, ultimately, Governor DeSantis was polling at like 6 percent in New Hampshire.

HARLOW: Yes.

THIBAULT: It was kind of weak at this point. So, I think that him endorsing Haley - or endorsing President Trump, rather, was an indictment of Governor Haley's run. And just the idea that he believes that we should unify as a party around one candidate who will be the best conservative candidate.

HARLOW: Uh-huh.

THIBAULT: And -

HARLOW: Can you talk about that, why you did that? Why - why you were on the DeSantis train and then went to Trump? Because it's not just because DeSantis dropped out. Something drew you to Trump.

THIBAULT: Sure. No. No, I think that eventually what brought me back to Trump - I mean I - I always liked a lot of his policy that he had during his first term. I - I liked that he appointed three incredibly pro-life justices to the Supreme Court, and I liked his immigration policy.

[09:00:07]

The fact that he was trying to secure our border. The fact that he started no new foreign wars. And the fact that he had started a deal towards peace in the Middle East, which no president had really done before. And now it's kind of falling apart under President Biden. So, you know, his past track record brought me back to him. But, ultimately, I just want a candidate that I know has a proven conservative track record, which I don't believe Nikki Haley necessarily has on a national scale.

HARLOW: Well, Drew, James, thank you both.

THIBAULT: Of course.

DICKINSON: (INAUDIBLE).

HARLOW: Great to hear from you.

MATTINGLY: The voters, they vote. We're going to be watching every moment of it.

"CNN NEWS CENTRAL" starts right now.