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Israeli Initiative To Offer Hamas 2-Month Ceasefire For All Hostages; U.S. Identifies Two Navy SEALs Declared Dead After Operation Off Somali Coast; Today: Biden And Harris Make First Joint Campaign Appearance Of 2024. Aired 5:30-6a ET

Aired January 23, 2024 - 05:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[05:30:00]

GERSHON BASKIN, MIDDLE EAST DIRECTOR, INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITIES ORGANIZATION, FORMER HOSTAGE NEGOTIATOR: In exchange for all the hostages. That is something that Israel is not willing to do and that's why Israel finally took an initiative and put an alternative on the table, which is less than what Hamas is demanding.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: So what you're saying is an all-for-all is off the table for Israel. What would be on the table, meaning what proportion of Palestinian prisoners do you believe Israel would be willing to release to get this done to get their people home?

BASKIN: Yeah. I don't -- I don't think the issue is the number of the Palestinian prisoners along as Israel arrests Palestinians every day. My estimation is that there are probably more than 10,000 Palestinian prisoners today with half of them being arrested since the beginning of the war on October 7.

The issue for Hamas now is that they are not willing to accept a temporary ceasefire. Hamas wants a full end to the war and Israeli withdrawal from Gaza. I've learned from 17 years of negotiating with Hamas that they say what they mean and they mean what they say, and their willingness to compromise is on the margins of their demands and not on the demands themselves.

HARLOW: It sounds like you do not think this is going to lead to be fruitful. Is that right?

BASKIN: I think that what might be possible is an interim deal where Hamas might be willing to negotiate the release of those who are described as civilians, the elderly, the sick, the wounded. There are about 19 young women who are being held that Israeli believes are being badly sexually abused. I don't know if Hamas would be willing --

HARLOW: Yes.

BASKIN: -- to release them.

What we do know is from the 136 hostages there are probably less than 100 that are still alive. And every day the hostages are left in Gaza is a risk to their lives either from the Israeli bombing or from executions being carried out by Hamas.

HARLOW: Our Alex Marquardt has some really fascinating reporting from overnight that I want your take on. His reporting is that Israel has proposed that Hamas' senior leaders could leave Gaza as part of a broader ceasefire deal. Of course, they have failed to capture or kill any of Hamas' top leaders. This would include Yahya Sinwar.

Do you see that happening?

BASKIN: No, not at all. This is a non-starter.

This is a leadership which is dedicated to the fight and their religious tenets preclude them ever running away or surrendering. They will go down fighting. They believe it is a religious commandment that they become martyrs for Palestine, for Islam, for Al-Quds, for Jerusalem, for Al-Aqsa.

This is not the situation that we had in 1982 where Yasser Arafat and the leaders of the PLO escaped Beirut in an agreement with Israel. This is a completely different nature of warfare and a completely ideological base of the people who are engaged in the fighting.

HARLOW: Gershon Baskin, thank you very much for being with us this morning.

Phil, back to you.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN ANCHOR: Well, thanks, Poppy.

We now know the names of the two U.S. Navy SEALS who died while conducting an operation off the coast of Somalia. Officials say Navy Special Warfare Operator 1st Class Christopher Chambers and Navy Special Warfare Operator 2nd Class Nathan Ingram lost their lives at sea while attempting to seize Iranian weapons being shipped to Yemen. While boarding a vessel, one fell into the water due to eight-foot swells. The second jumped in after him, according to protocol.

The Navy captain says the loss is quote "devastating" and that Chambers and Ingram were quote "exceptional warriors, cherished teammates, and dear friends to many."

Well, President Biden and Vice President Harris hitting the trail together today launching what could be the defining issue of their campaign, the fight for abortion rights. That's next.

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[05:38:01]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Tomorrow, we're going to win New Hampshire and then we're going to defeat crooked Joe Biden, and we are going to make America Great Again.

(END VIDEO CLIP) MATTINGLY: Donald Trump looking for a major victory in New Hampshire, looking beyond to a rematch with Joe Biden in November.

Today, President Biden and Vice President Harris head to northern Virginia for their first joint campaign appearance of 2024 as they aim to pitch abortion rights as a central issue in their reelection campaign. Now, the event is taking place the day after the anniversary of the 1973 Roe versus Wade decision, which the Supreme Court overturned in 2022.

Now, in an exclusive interview with CNN's Laura Coates yesterday, the vice president seized on that anniversary and went after Donald Trump for his role in nominating three justices key to striking down that landmark ruling.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Fast-forward to just recently. He says he's proud of what he did. And let's be clear.

So, by inference, he is proud that women have been deprived of fundamental freedoms to make decisions about their own body. By inference, proud that doctors are being penalized and criminalized for providing health care. Proud that women are silently suffering because they don't have access to the health care they need.

So let's understand that the stakes are so very high.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: Joining me now to discuss, CNN congressional correspondent Jessica Dean, CNN political commentators Errol Louis, Geoff Duncan, and Bakari Sellers.

Errol, I want to start with you because I thought that was really interesting because of how Donald Trump has tried to have it both ways over the course of the last several months. I'm totally against six- week abortion bans. It's a terrible policy. But I'm very proud of the three justices that I appointed.

And Democrats -- it makes their heads explode thinking that he can kind of get away with walking that line or balance --

ERROL LOUIS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, POLITICAL ANCHOR, SPECTRUM NEWS, HOST, "YOU DECIDE" PODCAST: Yeah.

MATTINGLY: -- but Harris is saying absolutely not.

LOUIS: No, no, that's right -- yeah. He, Donald Trump, can walk that line in the Republican primary phase by letting people know look, I got you your abortion ban. I made good on that. I'm the only president who actually showed up at your rally on the mall. And I want full credit for that and all of your votes, by the way.

[05:40:13] At the same time, he is practical. He's looking ahead to November. He basically is thinking like a general election candidate. And he's already said these abortion bans -- these six-week bans -- it's going to be terrible. It's already been hard for us politically and the Republican Party needs to move away from that.

Now, how that happens rhetorically, politically -- what it's going to look like on the campaign trail -- what you just saw was the Democrats saying we are not going to give you that space. You are not going to get one inch of grace when it comes to that.

You're going to have to own all of what you did in 2022. You're going to have to own all of those nominations. And you're going to have to explain it to the Republicans, and the suburban women, and the young voters, and all of the parts of the electorate that are going to react hard against where Trump wants to go.

I don't think he -- I don't think he's going to be able to escape that.

MATTINGLY: And the events this week coinciding with a nationwide ad buy that really is reminiscent of what Andy Beshear did as governor in his race, which he won in a red state, talking about personal stories related to reproductive rights.

Jess, does this have the reach nationwide that it's had in seemingly state after state after state over the course of the last two years?

JESSICA DEAN, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: We've just seen it over and over again since 2022.

And I'm sitting here listening to this and I'm thinking back to the Pennsylvania Senate race that I covered in the midterms right after Roe V. Wade was overturned. And I was talking to people in those swing counties around Philadelphia -- the collar counties. And you're talking about the women -- the suburban women -- the Independents -- that when it all comes down to it, that Trump is going to need or Biden is going to need to win these key states when it comes to a general election.

I was struck by how -- I'm always like -- you know, you're always reticent to say this one issue is what's going to do it. It's just -- it's so powerful. In that case, in that state, it made a giant difference -- more than even I, on the ground, was anticipating.

What I am interested to see -- and I've been talking to people out on the campaign trail and I was just in Iowa, too. They're still bringing it up -- people -- voters.

Now listen, I was talking to Republican primary voters. Those are a little bit different. But when I was just talking to people out and about in Iowa and in some of these other states that I've been traveling to, they bring up reproductive rights. They bring up Roe v. Wade. And what it is -- what I keep hearing is it's the precedent that they're upset about. That it was set and now it's not -- that it was undone. And that that's -- it's been taken away.

So, look, Democrats are betting big that it's going to have the exact same effect that we've seen in state after state -- in Kansas, in Ohio. In places where they want to win and then they haven't been winning, right?

We're just going to have to see if people -- if it's still --

MATTINGLY: Resonance.

DEAN: -- got that power.

MATTINGLY: Bakari, when I was covering the White House I always appreciated it when you would weigh in on the vice president because you had a more eh -- I'm being dead serious. Because you had a more level-headed approach to things --

BAKARI SELLERS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, (D) FORMER SOUTH CAROLINA STATE REPRESENTATIVE, ATTORNEY: Yeah.

MATTINGLY: -- and you would push back I think at some of the stuff that would leak often from either inside her team or inside the West Wing.

Her role going forward --

SELLERS: Sure.

MATTINGLY: In her role, which I think is underappreciated in the way it has developed over the course of the last several months as well -- but what do you see as they have this first joint event today as her role over the course of the next eight months?

SELLERS: I think you -- I think one of the statements I got in trouble for was calling her portfolio trash because, at the time, it was. But you're starting to -- what you're seeing is the White --

MATTINGLY: (INAUDIBLE) clearly.

SELLERS: Yeah. What you're seeing is the White House allowing her to flourish. She's getting outside of Washington, D.C. She was in Wisconsin and now she's in Virginia. She's been in South Carolina. She's been doing voter education on voting rights panels with LaTosha Brown and Black Voters Matter down in Georgia. She'll be back in South Carolina at the Pink Ice ball this Friday in Columbia, South Carolina.

And so, you're seeing her move around. She is one of the best messengers the campaign has -- the party has. She along, I'd argue, with Sec. Buttigieg are probably the best messengers that we have. And so --

MATTINGLY: So people will hear you say that and say how do you -- how could you possibly believe that after what I've read in the media over the past --

SELLERS: Well -- and, I mean, that's part of the problem. They put her in this box where they allowed the expectations and the caricatures to get out of whack.

But on an issue such as this -- I mean, we saw this issue -- it wasn't -- it didn't just win in Pennsylvania, which it did carry the day, but it also won in places like Kansas.

DEAN: Um-hum.

SELLERS: It won in places like Ohio.

And just frankly, as a Democrat, I'm glad that we are -- and just as an American, I'm glad -- this is a refreshing conversation to have. Like, we're not talking about the train wreck and the circus that is the behavior of Donald Trump. We're actually talking about policy issues, which I think Americans are keen on and focused on.

And I'm glad that the first campaign event is not a threat to democracy event. Those have gotten a little bit dry. I mean, we all know Donald Trump is -- either you believe Donald Trump is a threat to democracy or you don't. There's no swaying anybody in the middle on that issue.

And so this is an issue and this first campaign event together I think is important because we're actually talking about substantive issues. Issues like this. Issues about how good the economy has become. Issues about the future with all of the policies that have been passed by the President of the United States. This is where they need to be and this is where she needs to be.

[05:45:01]

MATTINGLY: And with that tee-up, I'm going to try and bring it back to the circus and the train wreck.

(LAUGHTER)

SELLERS: Thanks for that tee-up.

DEAN: Bring in home, Geoff.

MATTINGLY: Well, because it's interesting because not unlike Bakari, the vice president was asked about legal issues and Donald Trump last night and didn't want to weigh in. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LAURA COATES, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF LEGAL ANALYST: Do you believe that when Donald Trump is making these statements and suggests this is all attributed to the Biden administration or to the Department of Justice, what is your response to people who believe that, in fact, it's all orchestrated as one?

HARRIS: Well, what he's saying is not factual, period, period. And that would not be new for him, would it?

COATES: Do you think people believe that it's appropriate for a president to have immunity? HARRIS: I think we're going to have to leave that to the lawyers who are handling the cases.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: Do you think it is plausible to maintain that separation -- we don't want to attack on the indictments? It's pretty ripe political fodder one would think.

GEOFF DUNCAN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, (R) FORMER LT. GOVERNOR OF GEORGIA: Yeah, I think she's doing the right thing. I think staying away from trying to be a heavy hand or play into Donald Trump's hand where he is going to try to say that it's the administration that's making all of this hay in all these court cases. So I think it's smart for her to stay away.

And look, to your point, you either think Donald Trump is a threat to democracy or you don't. I mean, we're three years into this process and so I don't think that either one of these races are going to be totally defined by that. Donald Trump is going to have his base. Joe Biden is going to have his base.

And quickly, as soon as these primaries get over, we're going to start focusing back on the suburbs again. These are the issues that are going to start resonating, and that's who is going to elect the next president.

I'm one of those hardcore conservatives that just believes that the suburbs -- Donald Trump's lost the suburbs forever every time he lies. Every time he throws all this -- you know, just fodder and red meat, and lies, I just think the suburbs are away.

And going back to the abortion issue, I do think this is a tough spot for Republicans, all right? I do think it's a tough issue for us and we do have to be more cohesive and more -- work together on messaging. But the realities are it's a state-by-state issue.

And in Georgia, Brian Kemp -- you know, Stacey Abrams made a big point about Donald -- or Brian Kemp couldn't win because of the heartbeat law that we passed. But he stayed away from trying to use that as a -- as a galvanizing force and we didn't talk about trying to do away with exceptions. And we talked about foster care. We passed legislation to really wrap our hands around that expectant mom.

There's a way to do this but I don't think it's trying to make it political fodder.

MATTINGLY: It's certainly going to be a central point of discussion going forward. Guys, thank you very much. Appreciate it. Jessica Dean, Errol Louis, and Geoff Duncan, and Bakari Sellers. We could never forget Bakari.

SELLERS: But never forget the best for last.

MATTINGLY: My mom likes you more than me, so I have to give you --

(LAUGHTER)

Poppy, back to you in New Hampshire.

HARLOW: Phil, thank you very much. Get back to you soon.

Up next, our conversation with voters right here. Phil and I sat down with them for breakfast yesterday in New Hampshire. They are making their choice today even if they don't like their choices.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DON RYDER, NEW HAMPSHIRE VOTER: I will hold my nose and vote for one of the candidates.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL)

[05:51:53]

HARLOW: For some New Hampshire voters, casting a ballot this year feels like choosing between spinach and kale. I like spinach and kale but, you know, I hear what you mean. You can make an argument for both, but there must be some more satisfying options out there.

So Phil and I sat down yesterday morning for breakfast with Jane Nichols and Don Ryder, two Republican New Hampshire voters who feel that way, to get to the bottom of their angst -- listen.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HARLOW: Why are you not happy with the options?

JANE NICHOLS, NEW HAMPSHIRE VOTER: I think that both of them have their own -- their own ideas and they're set one way. I'd like everything that's been happening in the past -- I think it's time for a change and together. I don't like the things that either one of them have done.

HARLOW: Do you mean Biden and Trump?

NICHOLS: Biden and Trump -- both of them. And I would like to see -- I would like to see somebody else that would come in and do a better job if you will.

HARLOW: But Nikki Haley says she's the -- she's the changemaker. She's the different one.

NICHOLS: Well, now, I wish it was Chris Sununu and then I would vote for him.

MATTINGLY: But he endorsed her.

NICHOLS: I know. That's my issue.

HARLOW: Tell us more. NICHOLS: Well, I'm really not -- I'm not sure. I don't know enough about her other than what I've seen on the ads. We've never been able to meet her personally. And plus, I like the idea that the people -- I'd rather have them tell what their issues are, what their positions are, rather than combatting each other.

Yeah -- so I have an issue with that. So that's why I'm undecided right at the moment.

MATTINGLY: Don, where are you right now?

RYDER: My feeling right now is a third-party candidate. Nikki Haley, I think could do a fine job but my personal feeling is that we're in a situation where we might be facing another world war and I'm not sure Nikki would be strong enough to handle that.

HARLOW: Not strong enough? Why?

RYDER: I don't think she has the experience in the military. I realize she's been a governor and she's done a good job. And she did a very good job when she was in the United Nations. But I just don't -- I don't feel that she's military-minded.

HARLOW: Even though her husband is serving right now?

RYDER: Right. He's a major in the National Guard, I understand.

HARLOW: And Trump has never served.

RYDER: When I -- when I think of Donald Trump, I think he might be the strongest candidate in the military end. But his total attitude towards (coughing) -- excuse me -- towards the whole world and especially the people of this country, I just don't go along with his way.

[05:55:00]

MATTINGLY: So where does that -- where does that leave you? And I think because -- the reason I ask you is I think there's a lot of Americans that are in the same exact place you are and you are that there's got to be something else. It doesn't look like there's going to be.

RYDER: I know. That's going to present a real problem when it comes to the government.

MATTINGLY: Do you stay home or do you hold your nose and vote for one or the other?

RYDER: I will hold my nose and vote for one of the candidates that's running. But hopefully, you're going to have a third person to choose from.

NICHOLS: Even though I -- I'm hoping that by next November that there will be a third person that will enter this race and be -- you know, be really good at it, hopefully. (END VIDEOTAPE)

MATTINGLY: First and foremost, very grateful they were willing to take their time after their breakfast to hang out with us.

I think what was most fascinating, Poppy -- and look, this is a man on the street talking to voters. It's all anecdotal. It's one person, one vote -- or two people in this case -- was just how much they reflected what the broader polls throughout the nation are saying. They don't want this rematch. They'd really have -- like to have a third option. And yet, they seem to be starting to grapple with the fact that this is reality.

HARLOW: Yeah, 100 percent. And by the way, remember, Don Ryder was elected as a Republican official in this state previously, so they are pretty firm Republicans and they're just not happy with the kale or the spinach, I guess.

MATTINGLY: Yeah.

HARLOW: Right?

MATTINGLY: Well, they're going to be eating one of them.

HARLOW: Especially what they do today.

MATTINGLY: They will vote, which I also thought was really interesting.

All right, Poppy. We'll get back to you guys --

HARLOW: Yeah.

MATTINGLY: -- shortly.

In just minutes, voters will begin casting ballots across New Hampshire. Nikki Haley hoping to defy the polls and slow down the Trump train.

And a Democrat who is hopeful to derail Joe Biden's reelection, he says, to keep Donald Trump out of the White House. Congressman Dean Phillips here live ahead.

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