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New Hampshire Republican Primary Turnout Sets New Record; Dean Phillips is Interviewed about his Presidential Campaign; Dave Karger is Interviewed about the Oscar Outrage. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired January 24, 2024 - 08:30   ET



PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN ANCHOR: Ana Navarro and Kate Bedingfield.

I want to start there because turnout was huge.


MATTINGLY: And that's what they'd been expecting. But, still. And turnout was supposed to be key to Nikki Haley. And yet you listen to Trump supporters, and this is the dynamic, his just absolute lockup of the Republican base doesn't leave a path forward for anyone else. You disagree?

HOGAN: Well, no, I think people turned out on both sides. And it wasn't an absolute lockup. I mean she came within ten points. That's pretty close. She doubled her production in Iowa.

MATTINGLY: But Trump won 76 percent of Republicans.

HOGAN: Yes, of -

MATTINGLY: Registered republicans.

HOGAN: Well, but 40 percent of the people in the country are independent. And there are 18 states, I think, where they have open primaries.

But, look, I think the Trump people who are diehard Trump fans came out in big numbers. In Iowa they came out in 30 below zero. But also the people who didn't like Trump came out. It was a big - it was a big turnout on the other side as well. And so -


ANA NAVARRO, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: And let's be realistic, though. New Hampshire is supposedly the worst state for Trump demographic-wise and the best for her, right, in terms of the ideological breakup. So, everywhere else from now on gets worse and worse for her. So, I mean, it's just -- I think it's a grim outlook for her.

HOGAN: Yes. KATE BEDINGFIELD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: But it was also - I think it was also interesting, if you looked at the number of Republican -- registered Republicans who said, you know, if Trump was convicted of a crime, he wouldn't be fit for office.


BEDINGFIELD: There is an opening. It's not going to make Nikki Haley the nominee.


BEDINGFIELD: But in a general election, there is an opening, I think, to talk to some of these disaffected Republicans and, you know, independent-leaning Republicans who don't like Trump, who don't like that the Republican nominee is going to be a multiply indicted figure.

And so, you know, if you're the Biden campaign and you're looking at the general election, there's - there's some - there's some room for growth there. And I think there's some sort of overall reason for hope that there is a huge section of the country that - that rejects what Trump is saying. There's no question he's got a hard -- a hard lock on the Republican base -

HOGAN: And there's a huge -

BEDINGFIELD: But there's a big part of the country that doesn't support him.

HOGAN: There's a big block of the country that doesn't want Joe Biden. He's the least popular president in modern history and he's lower than Donald Trump. And Trump is beating him in almost every swing state. So, I think we're at a point where 70 percent of the people in America don't want either one of them and it's going to come down to, what happens between now and November.

NAVARRO: But it's - I think it's different when you're being theoretical and, you know, kind of rhetorical. OK, you know, maybe - but when you see the binary choice in front of you, OK, 81 years old versus 91 counts, I'm going with 81.

HOGAN: Well, I know where you're going. But, you know, I think there are a lot of people that say, you know, I -- I want to move on from Trump, don't like Trump, but there's no way I can vote for Biden. And I hear Biden voters going, I'm not voting for Trump but I don't want to --

NAVARRO: But if your choice is broccoli or kale, you've got to make a choice, you know?

BEDINGFIELD: And they also - there's also (INAUDIBLE) swing state polling that shows Biden leading, especially as economic indicators have started to get stronger. So, I - you know, I don't think -


BEDINGFIELD: I don't think the general election dynamic is locked in.

MATTINGLY: Can I just quickly ask the obvious question. There was -

HOGAN: Well, but I think the fact that Biden drops so far is why Trump won this primary in New Hampshire because Nikki Haley's argument was, I'm up 17 points on Biden, and Trump is tied.

BEDINGFIELD: Well, except -

HOGAN: Now Trump is way up.

BEDINGFIELD: Except that seven - what, 77 percent of, based on CNN's data, 77 percent of people who voted for Trump said they were voting for him. So, I - you know, there is an enthusiasm for him that's not just about that.

HOGAN: Yes -

MATTINGLY: Can I just ask an obvious - obvious question. Given the dynamics you're laying out as a former Republican governor of a blue state you won handily, what are you going to do about it?

HOGAN: Well, I mean, I've been trying to do everything I can to take the party in a different direction. People say, you know, why are you still a Republican? Well, because some -- I was a Youth for Reagan chairman. I've been involved in the party my whole life and I still believe in a healthy and competitive two-party system. And I - if we -- if guys like me give up, then what do we have left?

But, yes, I mean, I outran Biden and I ran 45 points ahead of Trump in the bluest state in America. So, I know how to win swing voters, but the rest of the party's been turning off, shrinking the tent, turning off people and playing to the base. And that's not a way to win elections. We've lost seven out of the last eight --

NAVARRO: And it feels like a very - it's a very small island but it feels like there, you know, there's others in -- on that same island, right, the Liz Cheneys, the Mitt Romneys.

HOGAN: Well, I was on a -- I used to say I'm on a life boat by myself. And, you know, pretty soon we're going to - and then a couple people jumped in, but, you know, we got the Titanic rolling by.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: To bring you in, Van, here, a lot of people voted for Trump, vote for Trump, because they feel like he fights for people like them. And when it comes down to the economy and the kitchen table and providing for your family, Phil's been talking about consumer sentiment, it's way up. Janet Yellen's going to give a big speech in Chicago tomorrow, one of the most important, our reporting is, of the year for the Biden administration. Even if the numbers get better, it doesn't seem like the way that they are talking about it is resonating or working with people.

How do they change that in the next --

VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: It's - this is - it's still January. We have a long time between now and November. If the -- people feel better about the economy month after month after month, a little bit, little bit, little bit, it adds up.

HARLOW: It's enough?

JONES: It can add up. That would be a positive for Biden.


If this war winds down in Gaza, so the young people aren't being bombarded with these images every 15 minutes, so they can maybe look around and look at other things to be concerned about, that begins to help Joe Biden.

And then, lastly, to Ana's point, you know, Trump -- that act wears thin for most people pretty fast. And so there is a world where it gets better. But right now neither Nikki Haley nor Joe Biden look strong enough to stop this runaway train. And that's why people are concerned.

MATTINGLY: Guys, thank you very much. It is only January. We've got to do this a lot more over the course of the next ten months.

JONES: And get you back here. We need your Republican (INAUDIBLE).

MATTINGLY: Absolutely. We appreciate it. Thank you very much, guys.

HARLOW: Speaking of it only being January, President Biden looking ahead to November with a message and new merchandise, but he still faces a primary challenger, Congressman Dean Phillips. He was with us yesterday. We asked him to come back. He kept his word. He came back. He joins us next.



This morning, President Biden turning his focus to the general election. There is a new t-shirt on the Biden campaign website.


It is adorned with this message, "together we will defeat Trump again." According to a campaign official, the $32 shirt is the Biden campaign's first merch drop, so to speak, of 2024 that references Trump. President Biden was not on the primary ballot here in New Hampshire because of a dispute between the Democratic National Committee and state officials here. But thanks to write-ins, the Biden - Biden still won a commanding victory. While the Biden campaign is zeroing in on the general, they still are dealing with a few challenges to him for the party's nomination, including the man who came in second here, Congressman Dean Phillips, who joins us now right here in New Hampshire, on his way to South Carolina.

Congressman, thank you very much for being here.


HUNT: You are heading to South Carolina.


HUNT: You had about 20 percent of the vote here, a distant second to the president who is not on the ballot.


HUNT: Why is it that you are going forward with this when Democrats are eager to see the president be able to take on Donald Trump directly?

PHILLIPS: Well, I should issue a shirt today that says "good luck," because the numbers are saying something totally different, Kasie.

And, in fact, yesterday, when we spoke, your poll had me at 7 percent. We came in a little -- about 20. And I built businesses and brands over my whole life. I've studied marketing and the best successes in history. I've never known an enterprise to generate 20 percent market share in just ten weeks. This is a beginning.

The country is simply not going to vote for Joe Biden. And I'm trying to wake up my party to that truth. I'm a Democrat. I do not want to see Donald Trump return to the White House. And let me tell you, everything I discovered in the 90 days here is that is absolutely going to happen. I want to help Democrats win. That's my message. And I intend to compete in this because we need an option. And I think that's what Democrats ultimately should be coalescing around.

And, by the way, it can be others. We should have a thoughtful competition, Kasie, because he's going to lose.

HUNT: Well - so, Congressman, you say that you're a business guy.


HUNT: You know that marketing can buy market share.


HUNT: You told me yesterday, you spent $5 million so far on this campaign. Do you want to update that figure? Is it higher or lower?

PHILLIPS: Oh, that's on the whole campaign. That's not just in New Hampshire.

HUNT: Right. But, still, that means that so far you have spent - and I'm - and I'm going to be a little generous here and assume there's 90 percent of the vote in -


HUNT: That you would land around 23,000 votes. That's $216 per vote that you have spent so far. PHILLIPS: Yes.

HUNT: If you continue at this rate, you would have to spend $4.1 billion to get to the 19 million votes that Joe Biden got in the nominating contest last time around. I don't think you have $4.1 billion.

PHILLIPS: That's - no.

HUNT: How much are you repaired to spend?

PHILLIPS: But, Kasie, that's -- that's not a business proposition. That's - that's kind of - I'm at - I'm -- I'm under 10 percent name recognition right now. That -

HUNT: Right. So, you're buying a lot of that.

PHILLIPS: You - like any -- any business person watching this right now knows you have to invest on the front side to develop your - your name awareness or your brand awareness and then it gets - then that cost goes way, way down.

And, by the way, yes, I've got a lot fewer resources and fewer people than Biden. The point is, he can't win. This whole thing is not about - it's not about those numbers. The numbers that matter are 33 percent or 34 percent approval numbers. He's losing in the battleground states to a man who's under indictment who's had his businesses go bankrupt, who's had his foundation shut down, who is a disaster for this country and we are sleepwalking in -- think about this, Joe Biden is losing to him.

HUNT: So, Nikki Haley says Donald Trump is going to lose to Joe Biden. That's her argument. Is she wrong?

PHILLIPS: First of all, Nikki Haley would beat Joe Biden by double digits for certain. Yes, which -

HUNT: That is her argument. Would you vote for Nikki Haley over Joe Biden in a general election (INAUDIBLE)?

PHILLIPS: I want to vote for a Democrat is what I want to do right now. And we're putting ourselves in a position where a lot of Democrats are going to have to start thinking about that.

And - by the way, I'm glad you said that. You know what happened last night here in New Hampshire? Democrats voted for the Republican, not for Joe Biden. They voted for Nikki Haley.

HUNT: That's Donald Trump's argument -


HUNT: Which is actually not true. If you're a registered Democrat in this state, you would have had to change your registration back on October 6th to vote. PHILLIPS: And they did. Eight - and eight percent of - eight percent

of them did. And a giant number of independents, who typically vote for Democrats, did. Not to mention there was a super PAC here trying to convince them to vote for Nikki Haley.

I think Barack Obama's former campaign manager was telling Democrats to vote for Nikki Haley. So, your question should ask other Democrats. They're doing it already. That's the whole point. They didn't vote for Joe Biden last night.

HUNT: So, tell me about what you've done so far on the ground in South Carolina. What kind of outreach have you done to the African American black leaders in that state who are so critical to the party there?

PHILLIPS: We have - and you're right, by the way. And we've got wonderful things planned. And I'm not going to share them right now because I'm - we have some good surprises, I think. And I'm going to hold them as surprises.

HUNT: How long are you in this?

PHILLIPS: I'm in this until I can absolutely generate name recognition to a point where you -- people can compare a poll of me against Donald Trump and Joe Biden against Donald Trump. Any Democrat should actually want that because if we're in this to win it, we need a candidate who can win, Kasie. And that's my whole contention. It's actually a really simple one. People who think Joe Biden is going to beat Donald Trump I think are deluded.

HUNT: All right.

PHILLIPS: That's my position. The numbers support that. And I know from my experience here -

HUNT: You think people are deluded if you think Biden would beat Trump?

PHILLIPS: I do. Yes, I do.

HUNT: All right.

PHILLIPS: And, by the way, I've -- I've not - I've not -- do you have some data that says something different, that Joe Biden is in a position to beat Donald Trump? I've not seen one.

HUNT: I - I will just say that I've been hearing from a lot of Republicans who do not think that Donald Trump can beat Joe Biden.


So, it's a bit conflicting.

PHILLIPS: Well, every poll says something different. And that's - and, by the way, if someone showed me a poll that said something - then I wouldn't be in this race.

HUNT: All right.


HUNT: Fair enough.

Congressman Dean Phillips, thanks very much.

PHILLIPS: Thanks, Kasie.

HUNT: It's been fun to talk to you here in the first in the nation state.

PHILLIPS: Likewise.

HUNT: Phil, back to you.

MATTINGLY: Well, thanks, Kasie.

From politics to Hollywood. "Barbie" scoring eight Oscar nominations, but not for Barbie herself or Greta Gerwig. Why fans and even Barbie's Ken himself, Ryan Gosling, are calling the snub disappointing and ironic.

Stay with us.



RYAN GOSLING, ACTOR, "BARBIE": I just don't know who I am without you.


GOSLING: But it's Barbie and Ken. There is no just Ken.


MATTINGLY: You should try telling that to the Academy, Ryan Gosling. Ryan Gosling, who scored an Oscar nomination for best supporting actor for his portrayal of the one and only Ken in last year's blockbuster hit, but "Barbie" star Margot Robbie and director Greta Gerwig were not nominated for best actress and director respectively.


The snub sparked backlash among the film's fans, many of whom pointed out a very clear irony given the movie's theme of feminism. Now, Gosling blasted the snub, saying, quote, "there is no Ken without Barbie, and there is no Barbie movie without Greta Gerwig and Margot Robbie."

HARLOW: Robbie was nominated as a producer for best picture for "Barbie." Gerwig received a nomination for best adapted screenplay. We should note, "Barbie" was produced by CNN's parent company, Warner Brothers Discovery. Joining us now is Dave Karger, an entertainment journalist and a Turner Classics Movie host. He's also the author of a new book, "50 Oscar Nights: Iconic Stars and Filmmakers on their Career Defining Wins."

We'll get to the book in a minute. Congratulations on it.


HARLOW: It's phenomenal the access you got.

We have to start with this. I printed out the whole -- I read this like ten times, the statement was so good by Ryan Gosling.

KARGER: It was perfect.

HARLOW: It was perfect.


HARLOW: And he said, "to say that I am disappointed that they are not nominated in their respective categories would be an understatement."

We saw America Ferrera, who was nominated also, put out a supportive statement for them.

Can you help us understand why? I mean, I just have to tell you, our producer pulled the - the satirical paper, "The Reductress." OK, here is the headline, "diversity wins. Man and woman dominated movie gets Oscar nomination."

KARGER: Yes, there's that. It's not a good look when it comes from the movie, as you just said, Phil.

HARLOW: But it also doesn't make sense to me.

KARGER: Well, people have to remember, the Academy doesn't sit en masse and say this is who we want to give a nomination to and this is who we don't. They're voting individually. And there were, in the case of best actress, six really strong performances. My hunch is that Margot Robbie was on a lot of ballots, but she probably was people's number three or four choice. It's hard to get in for a true comedy. "Barbie's" a true comedy. Yes, Emma Stone was nominated and won for a comedy at the Golden Globes for "Poor Things," but that's not really a comedy.

So, if you look at the five performances that did get in there for best actress, they're heavier. And I think that it's just an unconscious or not bias against truly comedic movies.

HARLOW: I mean we can move on. It was a comedy with a really critical message.

KARGER: Absolutely it was.

HARLOW: So, a heavy, important message too. KARGER: Yes. And I'm really glad that you pointed out that she did get a nomination as a producer.


KARGER: And Greta Gerwig to get a nomination as a writer. Not the same -


KARGER: But at least they'll be there at the Oscars.

MATTINGLY: Not to belabor the point, but Ryan Gosling's statement is annoyingly perfect, which also follows kind of how he operated throughout, I think, the PR portion of the movie when the movie came out. He always kind of sat in the back -


MATTINGLY: And made clear who the stars were. Does that bother you? Should that bother you?

KARGER: Everything about Ryan Gosling bothers me. The only thing I'll be bothered by is if he does not decide to sing "I'm Just Ken" at the Oscars.

HARLOW: Phil, too.

KARGER: Ryan, you've got to do it.


KARGER: You got to do it.

HARLOW: But you know that when Greta Gerwig, and she and her partner, Noah, were writing this, they wrote it with Ryan's name in it. Like, before they had even asked him to be in it, they wrote it -- this part was all written for him.

OK, tell us about the book. Some of the big names in it. Nicole Kidman. You sat down with Elton John, Stephen Spielberg. Talk about access.

KARGER: Meryl Streep.

HARLOW: Meryl Streep.

KARGER: That was the one that blew my mind. I thought, how can I write a book with the word Oscar in the title and not have Meryl Streep in it?


KARGER: I just wanted to come at the Oscars, which has been my focus as a print journalist and a broadcast journalist for 25 years, I wanted to come at it from a more personal and emotional angle. So, to sit with these people and have them tell me the more personal stories of the day that they won their Oscar and what they remember about it.

Nicole Kidman fearing - feeling very lonely at the end of the night. She was divorced from Tom Cruise, hadn't yet met Keith Urban. So, she just felt like, I need a love in my life. Someone to share this with.

Elton John thinking he actually won for the wrong song for "The Lion King." He thinks "Circle of Life" should have won instead of "Can You Feel the Love Tonight."

So, stories like that.

Jane Fonda feeling very guilty that she won an Oscar before her legendary dad, Henry Fonda, and talking very openly about that.

Barry Jenkins speaking for the first time about the "La La Land" "Moonlight" bruhaha and how that really detracted from his potential enjoyment of winning a best picture Oscar.

So, I had fun doing it.

MATTINGLY: I think this would be like picking your children, but favorite person you spoke to for this book?

KARGER: You know who was really great? Sally Field.


KARGER: I just adore her. She was so fun. She -

HARLOW: They really like me. They really love me.

KARGER: That's a very famous speech.


KARGER: And she won another Oscar even before that for Norma Rae.


KARGER: And she spoke with me about that, about what an important film it is for her. I just love her. It was a lot of fun to do.

HARLOW: So many congratulations.

MATTINGLY: Huge congrats.


HARLOW: So nice to have you at the table.

KARGER: Great to see both of you.

MATTINGLY: Thanks (INAUDIBLE). Appreciate it.

HARLOW: Thank you.

A college coach scores an historic victory on the basketball court. The record she just broke. It's our "Morning Moment," next.



HARLOW: I love this story so much.

The Stanford women's basketball coach has 1,203 reasons to smile in today's "Morning Moment." Tara VanDerveer is now the winningest coach in all of NCAA basketball history after winning her 1,203rd game over the weekend over Oregon State. VanDerveer's 45-year coaching career is now in its 38th season at Stanford, where she's won three national titles. She has been the national coach of the year five times, by the way, and was inducted into the nation's memorial basketball hall of fame. After this milestone win, she remained characteristically humble about what it all means.


TARA VANDERVEER, STANFORD WOMEN'S BASKETBALL COACH: This game of basketball was invented as, always has been, and always will be, a team sport. It is never about one person, and it is not about me.


I would not be up here without the great players I've coached, without working at the great universities I've worked, having a great staff.


MATTINGLY: VanDerveer, best known for her time as Ohio State women's coach, beat the former record set by former Duke men's basketball coach, Mike Krzyzewski. He shared a congratulatory message saying, quote, "Tara remains a true guardian of our sport."

HARLOW: So great.

MATTINGLY: The jacket that she was wearing with all the - that was awesome.

HARLOW: You know, she had to delay a bridge game with her mother so that she could, you know, finish the celebration. Pretty cute.

MATTINGLY: That's nice.

HARLOW: Pretty cute.

MATTINGLY: Good story. Legend.

Thanks so much for joining us. "CNN NEWS CENTRAL" starts right now.