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Biden Calls Trump's NATO Comments "Un-American"; Investors Look For Reset After Dow Drops More Than 500 Points; Tiny Remote Robot Completes Simulated Surgery In Space. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired February 14, 2024 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:30:00]

DR. MARK ESPER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST, FORMER U.S. SECRETARY OF DEFENSE UNDER PRESIDENT TRUMP: I think they hear that America is retreating -- or at least America, under Donald Trump, would be retreating from the world stage. Would be leaving our allies exposed unless they do certain things. In this case, meet a certain spending target which, by the way, I agree with. I think the allies should live up to their commitments and they have not been. But set that aside.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: We have seen quite an increase.

ESPER: We've seen -- there's 11 now out of 31 and they -- we think the number is going up. But it's still -- none of that is not a reason to withdraw from the alliance --

HARLOW: Right.

ESPER: -- which say use those words.

HARLOW: Right.

ESPER: Because what it does is it invites aggression from autocrats who are inclined to be aggressive in the first place.

HARLOW: John Bolton, who was national security adviser under Trump, has been really clear multiple times here on CNN in the past couple of days that he does think Trump would move to withdraw. Now, he's going to need Congress to do that now because of the way the law is written.

You were in the room with Trump in discussions like this. Do you agree with Bolton?

ESPER: Sure. Look, I think President Trump has a disdain for NATO. He doesn't understand it. He doesn't understand the importance to our own security.

And look, I think one of the first things he'll do is move to cut off all funding for Ukraine. The next thing he'll probably do is to begin withdrawing troops from key countries unless they meet a spending commitment. But ultimately, will try to withdraw from NATO.

But look, on the other hand, despite a law recently passed by Congress saying that he can't without --

HARLOW: Congress.

ESPER: -- Congress' approval, there's so many other things a president can do to undermine the alliance.

HARLOW: Like what?

ESPER: He could pull troops out. He could -- he could declare that he will not support a NATO ally just like he did. Because that is all in the power of the executive and the commander-in-chief. And we could withdraw from exercises. We could withdraw ourselves from NATO formations.

HARLOW: We -- turning to the issue of Ukraine. And the fact is that this $95 billion aid bill -- $60 billion to Ukraine -- is not going to make it to the House floor, according to Speaker Johnson, at least not in this form.

We just had this really fascinating reporting from our Melissa Bell overnight just highlighting the successful attacks Ukraine is continuing to carry out on Russia -- this one on the Black Sea fleet, which now they've decimated by a third, which is pretty remarkable, isn't it, and the way that they're doing it.

But how long can Ukraine sustain that without much more aid from the U.S.?

ESPER: I think it's going to be very difficult. I mean, there is aid in the pipeline. We are the largest provider of military aid. The Europeans, the largest provider of financial aid. When that pipeline runs out I can't tell you right now.

We do know that the Ukrainians are really metering out their ammunition and how they fight the fight, and that's going to wear down over time as they -- as they do that.

HARLOW: A final question to you on a different topic. The House just impeached Homeland Security Sec. Alejandro Mayorkas -- the first time in 150 years a cabinet secretary has been impeached. The Republicans who oppose it, like Ken Buck, say look at the precedent you're setting here.

As a former cabinet secretary, do you agree with that?

ESPER: Yeah, I don't like the precedent either. I mean, look, the border is a crisis. It's a mess. Everyone knows it, to include a lot of Democrats. But this is President Biden's policy, not Mayorkas' policy. And so, if you want change you've got to change who is in the White House.

I do not like the precedent of impeaching -- you know, doing this because it'll become a tit-for-tat and we need to avoid that type of stuff.

HARLOW: Yeah. ESPER: We need to get back to a more -- you know, simpler days when we didn't -- we didn't personally attack everybody. We didn't try to impeach everybody who didn't do exactly what we wanted. And that's what we need to get back to. That's why I'm very anxious about this upcoming election.

HARLOW: Former Defense Sec. Mark Esper, thank you. Nice to have you here.

ESPER: Thanks, Poppy.

HARLOW: Appreciate it -- Phil.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN ANCHOR: Well, on the heels of impeaching Sec. Mayorkas, the House Republican Party looks to capitalize even further, leaning on Robert Hur's scathing account of President Biden's quote "poor memory." Why the polls suggest this could actually play in their favor. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL)

[07:37:04]

MATTINGLY: Welcome back.

There is a new push by House Republicans to seize on special counsel Robert Hur's searing assessment of President Biden's age. You'll recall Hur found evidence that Biden willfully retained classified information but also that, quote, "The evidence does not establish Mr. Biden's guilt beyond a reasonable doubt."

The report says Hur did not charge the president with a crime, in part because he didn't believe the government could prove Biden's intent to do something illegal. The report did, however, paint a picture of a president with, quote, "A poor memory who didn't properly protect highly-sensitive information."

It's an image that is certainly difficult for Biden's campaign prospects and one Republicans have been seizing on, especially as polls, for months, have shown Biden's age is a major concern for voters -- even Democrats.

HARLOW: Sources tell CNN that House Republican leaders have reached out to Hur for possible testimony before the House Judiciary Committee. They've also asked the DOJ for the transcript and any recordings and notes of the special counsel's interview with the president.

Let's bring in co-author of Politico's New York Playbook, Emily Ngo. And former New York state official Sarah Feinberg. Good morning to you guys.

I'm really interested, Sarah, given your work in the Obama administration -- obviously Biden was vice president -- to how they respond to this most effectively. We saw the press conference but now, House Republicans aren't letting go of it. I mean, they want to talk to Hur. They want to hear. It's different than to hear it, right?

SARAH FEINBERG, FORMER NEW YORK STATE OFFICIAL, FORMER OBAMA ADMINISTRATIN OFFICIAL: Right.

HARLOW: If they're able to hear it then to see in the writing about Biden's age and memory loss.

FEINBERG: Look, I think the most important thing for the Biden administration to do right now is to -- is to explain to the American people exactly what this is, which is -- look, I think Hur really overstepped. This feels very partisan. This is -- I'm not a lawyer but this is language that lawyers tend not to use. If the case is that he didn't do anything that we're going to charge on then, like, that's the news and move on.

Look, the most interesting thing I saw is that Hur has now hired the most partisan, well-known Republican lawyer in all of Washington, D.C., Bill Burke, who has represented Trump, he's represented Kavanaugh, he's represented other major Republicans. So, like, what does that tell you, right? I mean, this feels like a partisan exercise to me.

MATTINGLY: I think the question and all true and fair in terms of what you're pointing out and also true and fair that Democratic members of the House and Senate endorsed Hur and said good things about Hur in the past when he was nominated for things.

The question -- to Sarah's point, this is clearly heading down that pathway, right? It's just going to be partisan warfare. If you're the Biden team fighting this to awash doesn't necessarily help you. You need to actually make inroads to convince people of the opposite given where things have been for several months.

EMILY NGO, POLITICAL REPORTER, POLITICO NEW YORK, CO-AUTHOR, POLITICO'S NEW YORK PLAYBOOK: Exactly.

MATTINGLY: And so how do they do that if it just devolves into both sides?

NGO: Well, it may come down to the release of the transcript, right, after it's declassified. And certainly on the part of the House Republicans it is a safer gamble to try to get Hur out speaking and deliver that testimony that certainly will be blockbuster than it is to rely on the release of a transcript, which may hurt their case that Biden's memory was faulty.

[07:40:05]

And if Hur appears before House Republicans to testify in this manner -- if those sound bites go viral it will not matter necessarily that the Democrats are trying to push back that says that he made a political case but he couldn't make a legal case. That is an attorney and not a physician, and that he overstepped his mandate. It's going to be out there resonating and backing up the case that both Democrats and Republicans and Independents have made as well that Biden is too old for this office. HARLOW: Sarah, back to the question of what they do now though -- the best strategy. Some people thought the press conference was a good strategy. Other people thought it wasn't given the mix-ups he made during it.

FEINBERG: Yes.

HARLOW: What about now over the next nine months?

FEINBERG: Look, I think the president should be out there making the case on the economy and what he's going to do to move the country forward in the next four years. He should both run on his record --

HARLOW: And don't talk about the age?

FEINBERG: -- but what else is happening. Acknowledge it --

HARLOW: Yeah.

FEINBERG: -- but, like -- you know, the people around him -- the campaign, the political operatives can make the case about partisanship, about Trump. The fact that Trump has made as many mistakes about -- you know, with faulty memory and calling Nancy Pelosi by the wrong name and all of that.

HARLOW: Viktor Orban is not the president of Turkey.

FEINBERG: Exactly. So let the political operatives make that case.

The president should be running on his record and what he's going to do in the next four years.

MATTINGLY: What's interesting about this is they voluntarily agreed to sit down for the interviews --

FEINBERG: Yeah.

MATTINGLY: -- two of the interviews over the course of five-six hours in the immediate aftermath of October 7. And they also didn't ask for any redactions. The counsel's office released its entirety in the report.

HARLOW: That's a good point.

MATTINGLY: And I think it's interesting because they're actually doing the things that had they not done they would have gotten killed for, and here they are. It's been interesting to watch it play out.

I have to ask you about the special election because as I was telling you during the break, I've heard 76 different hot takes for what it all means. Clearly, it tells us everything we need to know for November. But in reality, what did it tell you?

NGO: Well, of course, Democrats can claim momentum going into November. And they can say that having a centrist moderate candidate who distances himself from President Biden can be effective in swing districts. But it's a bellwether but it's not a perfect bellwether.

Long Island had been leaning red for some time. The suburbs in New York State, California, and elsewhere that are leaning blue. So if anything, it gives a playbook to Democrats on how they can win some of these crucial seats that pave a path back to the gavel for them. But there's a lot of lessons to be taken away as to how popular Biden actually is and Trump is as well in that district.

FEINBERG: If there is one lesson to learn out of this special election -- please, Democratic candidate, I hope you're listening. Tom Suozzi has given you a playbook for how to win an election.

Do not pretend the migrant crisis is not happening. Acknowledge it. Talk about what you're going to do to solve it. Do not present the economy isn't a problem. Acknowledge it. Talk about what you're going to do to solve it.

Do not just whistle past the graveyard and say it's all fine and anyone worried is bedwetting. That is not what we learned here. What we learned is acknowledge that the world is not perfect. How are you going to fix it?

HARLOW: Um-hum.

MATTINGLY: Is it -- I mean, after the fact, that seems very obvious. And they were helped because House Republicans completely said not to a bipartisan border compromise.

FEINBERG: You should have (INAUDIBLE).

MATTINGLY: But I'm wondering why that hasn't been necessarily the case up until now. Now everybody's like Tom Suozzi -- he's the one who has got it. He figured it out.

FEINBERG: Well, look, there have been lots of Democrats, particularly moderate Democrats, who have been saying for months stop pretending that the polls aren't real. Stop pretending that everything is fine. Stop accusing anyone worried about polling as bedwetters and panickers.

So the voices have been out there. I think there's been momentum saying see, everything's fine. That's not the case. Like, acknowledge the issues and then run a campaign on them.

HARLOW: Thank you both. Great to have you.

FEINBERG: Good to see you.

MATTINGLY: Well, the second time -- apparently, it's a charm if you're the House Republicans. The Republican-led House impeached, finally, Homeland Security Sec. Alejandro Mayorkas. Why Republicans were finally able to get that vote together by one vote.

HARLOW: All right. And take a look at the market. Futures this morning following some higher-than-expected inflation data. What the report reveals and what it means for your home.

(COMMERCIAL)

[07:48:12]

MATTINGLY: I think it's probably fair to say investors are looking for a bit of a reset button this morning after stocks took a dive Tuesday following some higher than expected inflation data.

HARLOW: The Dow fell more than 500 points after the Consumer Price Index showed prices rose 3.1 percent last year, suggesting the Federal Reserve may not cut interest rates as soon as many on Wall Street had hoped.

Vanessa Yurkevich here with a lot more. Good morning.

VANESSA YURKEVICH, CNN BUSINESS AND POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning.

HARLOW: When we look at this number what does it tell us, sort of, big-picture and about where the Fed is going to go?

YURKEVICH: Yeah. I think Wall Street has been on a winning streak -- a hot streak and they got a little burned yesterday. They were expecting CPI to come in under three percent.

HARLOW: Yeah.

YURKEVICH: They were hoping for 2.9 percent. They didn't get that. They got 3.1 percent.

And Wall Street had been on this rally for many, many months now -- in part because tech stocks have been doing very well but also because they thought that the Federal Reserve would start to cut rate this spring. Now because of this number -- this CPI number -- 3.1 percent -- that is looking less likely. Folks are not anticipating that a rate cut is not coming in March, not coming in May -- probably more like June and July.

And the Fed has been pretty transparent about rate cuts. They baked in three this year. Wall Street largely ignored that and decided actually, maybe we'll see four to five this year. But that's not the reality and the Fed has been pretty transparent about that.

So you now have kind of a sobering of the markets right now. The Dow just notched a record on Monday and then yesterday, the Dow fell more than 700 points, closing down more than 500 points.

And it's just an opportunity to reset at this point. We futures up a little bit this morning so maybe investors have had time to digest the information that they've seen in this CPI report.

[05:50:00]

But it's a signal that you just don't bet against the Federal Reserve and Wall Street largely has done that these past couple of months. MATTINGLY: Yeah. And look, Wall Street forecasters have had a great record the last year and a half of getting literally everything wrong.

YURKEVICH: Correct.

MATTINGLY: Sorry, guys.

YURKEVICH: And economists.

MATTINGLY: But it's -- no, everyone has gotten --

YURKEVICH: Everyone.

MATTINGLY: -- everything wrong about the U.S. economy, which is why it's been so hard to figure out.

But to this idea of -- look, Poppy always scolds me. You don't say CPI. You don't say PCE. Like, explain to people --

HARLOW: I do not think --

YURKEVICH: Yeah.

MATTINGLY: -- what it actually means.

HARLOW: -- we should say these things on television.

MATTINGLY: Which is right because --

YURKEVICH: Yeah.

MATTINGLY: -- CPI is one important --

YURKEVICH: Correct.

MATTINGLY: -- data point --

YURKEVICH: Correct.

MATTINGLY: -- that comes -- there's PCE, there's jobs reports. There's all different elements.

HARLOW: Don't forget PPI.

MATTINGLY: PPI as well.

YURKEVICH: Which is coming later this week.

MATTINGLY: But explain to people a) what CPI actually means --

YURKEVICH: Yeah.

MATTINGLY: -- and b) how it's just one of the many --

YURKEVICH: Right.

MATTINGLY: -- kind of broader picture pieces.

YURKEVICH: It's -- they're all indicators of inflation in different ways. CPI is consumer prices. PPI is producer prices. And PCE, which the Fed likes to look at, in particular, is personal consumption expenditure. It really gets into the details of what people are spending.

So the Fed actually looks -- likes to look at that report more closely than CPI so it is a question of how much is the Fed going to put on this one report. I mean, this could be a little bit out of the ordinary and maybe a little hotter than people expected. Still cooling, though. We're still in a cooling trend.

MATTINGLY: Right.

YURKEVICH: But next month, we could see a better number -- a lower number that both Wall Street and the Fed would like that would encourage them to potentially start to cut rates sooner.

You have to look at all the data and that's what Jerome Powell wants. He wants to see a lot of good data. One report does not mean a downturn in the markets. One report doesn't mean we're going to start raising rates again. It is important to look at all of it. All of it paints a picture about where we are with inflation.

HARLOW: OK. Thank you, Vanessa.

YURKEVICH: Thank you.

HARLOW: Defense Sec. Lloyd Austin is home -- good news. He is resuming also his full duties after a two-day stay at Walter Reed hospital. The Pentagon says he is in good condition. He is expected to be on a virtual call about Ukraine today. So glad to hear he's going a little bit better.

MATTINGLY: And one person killed and at least five others injured after a vehicle crashes into the emergency room of a hospital in Austin, Texas.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

Car crashing through emergency room.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: Now, it's not clear what led to the crash. It does not appear to be intentional. We'll keep you updated as we learn more.

HARLOW: Overnight, Ukraine says it has taken out a Russian warship in the Black Sea. We've got the latest -- this is the latest, I should say, in a series of drone strikes against the Russian navy in just the past couple of weeks.

MATTINGLY: And tiny robots in space performing surgery. Yes, that wasn't Mad Libs. You heard me correctly. The groundbreaking procedure among the stars that could change medicine as we know it. We'll explain next.

(COMMERCIAL)

[07:57:06]

MATTINGLY: Now to a CNN exclusive. A tiny robot at the International Space Station could create a world of possibilities for surgery in space. The new milestone involves successful demonstrations on simulated tissue with the robot in zero gravity and doctors operating remotely from Earth.

CNN's Kristin Fisher has this exclusive reporting.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KRISTIN FISHER, CNN SPACE AND DEFENSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Sitting on top of this SpaceX rocket when it launched in January was the first surgical robot bound for outer space.

SHANE FARRITOR, COFOUNDER AND CHIEF TECHNOLOGY OFFICER, VIRTUAL INCISION: So MIRA is a small surgical robot.

FISHER (voice-over): MIRA, made by a company called Virtual Incision, arrived at the International Space Station in February and on Saturday, it did something that's never been done before.

FARRITOR: Saturday was the first time that a surgical robot in space was controlled by surgeons on Earth to perform simulated surgical activities.

FISHER (voice-over): Virtual Incision provided CNN with exclusive video as six surgeons at the company's headquarters in Lincoln, Nebraska took turns operating the robot after it was powered up by NASA astronauts roughly 250 miles above.

DR. MICHAEL JOBST, SURGEON: The adrenaline was pumping and I could feel my heart pounding. It was -- it was really exhilarating. But at the same time, once I saw that robotic device doing the things that I'm used to it doing, I settled down.

FISHER (voice-over): Dr. Michael Jobst says he's already performed 15 surgeries with MIRA during clinical trials on human patients here on Earth, but he's never had to contend with zero gravity or a time delay of about half a second.

JOBST: A split-second during -- you know, a half a second is going to be significant so this was a big challenge.

FARRITOR: You can see a left hand with a grasper and a right hand with a pair of scissors. And we use rubber bands here to simulate surgical tissue.

JOBST: So you could think of those rubber bands as perhaps blood vessels or tendons, or other connective tissue that has elasticity. So we're able to grab hold of the rubber bands and then take the scissors and just basically to cut them. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right, I'm going for it. Yeah.

(Applause)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That was one small rubber band, but a great leap for surgery.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FISHER (on camera): Now, in addition to someday being able to perform remote surgeries on people in space, they also want to use this type of technology here on Earth someday in places where it's not always easy to get a surgeon, Phil and Poppy. Think places like really remote, rural areas or maybe even warzones.

HARLOW: That is such a good point. That was absolutely fascinating.

Also, because we have you here, talk to us about SpaceX scrubbing the launch of that lunar lander. What is significant about that?

FISHER: Well, Poppy, if successful, this would be the first American- made spacecraft to successfully land on the surface of the moon since the end of the Apollo program way back in 1972.