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Smith Urges Supreme Court to Deny Delay Request; Two Trump Hearings Today; Russian Nuclear Capabilities in Space; Ice Drafts Budget Cutbacks. Aired 6:30-7a ET

Aired February 15, 2024 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[06:30:00]

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: He said, I want you to take it. I want to skip the court of appeals. And in that brief, Jack Smith said, it is, quote, "imperative" that this court, the Supreme Court, resolve this case. He said only this court, the Supreme Court, can resolve the case.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Before he had a unanimous victory from the appellate.

HONIG: Right. Well, before he said skip those guys, court of appeals, we don't need them. Now he's won three nothing in the court of appeals. He's saying, ah, good enough.

I am on the edge of my seat as to how this one comes out because it could go either way, whether the Supreme Court takes it or not, and the implications here will be enormous. It could determine whether we have a trial before the election or not.

HARLOW: Yes.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN ANCHOR: Coleman, to that point, you know, I go back and forth of, even if they think it's an open/shut case, the Supreme Court should take it just because it's the highest court in the land and their word on this should be considered final.

Do you think that plays into this at all, that they'll feel it's incumbent upon them to have to address this issue, even if they agree with where the appeals court was?

COLEMAN HUGHES, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: It's definitely possible that they'll feel, as the highest court in the land, that they have to have the final say here. I think it's important to recognize what -- what Trump is aiming -- what Trump's team is aiming to get out of this.

As you pointed out, they have a very tough uphill battle actually convincing any justice on the merits of the case here. But because we're between the Super Bowl and the all-star week, and I'm thinking in terms of sports analogies here, right, when - when -

HARLOW: Want to come to Indianapolis?

HUGHES: Yes.

HARLOW: That's where I'm going to be this weekend.

HUGHES: So, when your team, in basketball or football, winning in the fourth-quarter, you want to run out the clock often, right, because that's all you have to do, right, so to prevent the other team from being able to score, right? So, what Trump's strategy right now, because he is winning in the polls, really he has to do anything possible, no matter how outlandish, to just run the clock down.

HARLOW: Yes.

Also, the Georgia case. Our reporting, Doug, is that Trump was intrigued by the idea of going to this hearing in Georgia today. He's not, he's going to be in New York for the other one. It's amazing these are all happening at the same time.

But something important is happening, and that the judge in the Georgia case said there is merit and reason to look at whether the DA in the case, Fani Willis, benefited financially from hiring a romantic partner, paying -- he got paid a lot of taxpayer money, and that if indeed she benefited financially, that it could be grounds for disqualification here.

Regardless of which way that goes, what do you think the importance is to public opinion of that case, of Georgia election subversion allegations?

DOUG HEYE, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: You know, one thing that we've seen Donald Trump be able to do very effectively is, whenever there is a question of somebody else's moral or legal or ethical improprieties, he takes full advantage of it. His own issues aside.

HARLOW: That's an interesting point.

HEYE: This is a perfect example for him. So, whatever the decision is for him, Donald Trump's going to claim either victory or victimhood, both of which work for Donald Trump. And, you know, timing is everything in politics. And for Trump, he likes to be the center of attention. We all know that. Congress, the House of Representatives, has been a disaster over the past couple weeks. Well, they're gone for two weeks. Donald Trump is going to have the show to himself. So, we set up -- set himself up in a perfect, albeit slightly bizarre, position yet again.

HONIG: Can I just add to that.

MATTINGLY: Please.

HARLOW: Yes.

HONIG: Donald Trump will make things up about prosecutors, right, to slam them. I mean he's done it from the Muller investigation, on through to Jack Smith, on through to any prosecutor who's ever gone after him, he'll attack often with fabricated attacks. But the DA here, Fani Willis, has given him a lot of legitimate basis to criticize her conduct. And I -- this hearing today is going to be ugly. It's going to be unpredictable.

We're going to have the lead prosecutor on the case in the witness box. I mean, as a prosecutor, that's the last place in the courtroom you want to be, other than maybe the lock-up, which I'm not - I'm not suggesting that's implied. But being a -- putting a prosecutor in the witness stand is just opening the doors to all sorts of unpredictability. We're going to be watching closely. I'd be very nervous if I was on that prosecution team.

MATTINGLY: Speaking to making things up, I want to get your guys take on what the former president said last night about one of his perceived flubs.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT AND 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: But when I say that Obama is the president of our country, ba, ba, ba, they go, he doesn't know that it's Biden. He doesn't know. So, it's very hard to be sarcastic. When I interpose -- because I'm not a Nikki fan and I'm not a Pelosi fan. And when I purposely interposed names, they said, he didn't know Pelosi from Nikki, from tricky Nikki, tricky dickey, he didn't know. I interposed. And they make a big deal out of it. I said no, no, I think they both stink. They have something in common.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: You brought it up.

MATTINGLY: No, I know. I - I'm kind of just marveling at like the Slavic rhythm to it all.

Is -- do you think that's true, that - that he - that he meant to do it, it was intentional?

HUGHES: You know, who knows? The way that Trump speaks has been at the core of my bafflement, but also in some way his success. At this point there's no way to deny that whatever he's doing works for him as a communication style, but when you see it written out on a page, it's just a mess of, well, almost ADHD, right?

[06:35:11]

So, who knows what's going on in his head in this case.

MATTINGLY: Let's go senior communications adviser.

HEYE: Well, look -- look every time Donald Trump puts out a statement, there's a word that's misspelled, there's weird words that are capitalized or in all caps and the media go crazy and they focus on, he misspelled this word, why is this in all caps? And Donald Trump loves that because you focus on some weird detail that's sort of by design. He might have done this on purpose. And even if he didn't, he's going to claim he did because he leaves a little piece of cheese and all the mice chase it every single time.

HARLOW: You - what are you calling reporters, mice, Doug Heye?

HEYE: Some. Not all of them.

MATTINGLY: Doug Heye would never besmirch reporters.

HARLOW: No.

MATTINGLY: We buy too many of his meals.

The -- I will say, read the speech, there's actually a lot of policy in them these days as well.

HARLOW: Thank you, gentlemen.

MATTINGLY: Thanks, guys.

HEYE: Thank you.

HARLOW: Thanks, Elie. A big day ahead.

HONIG: Yes.

HARLOW: You're going to be on TV all day, by the way.

HONIG: Right.

HARLOW: Also this, the U.S. has new intelligence on Russia's nuclear capabilities, get this, in space. Some lawmakers say the potential threat is so serious, it should be made public. Others, though, saying, not so much.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: Welcome back.

Fresh concerns this morning of a potential new threat from Russia. Multiple sources tell CNN the U.S. has new intelligence on Russia's nuclear capabilities in space and that it's related to a nuclear anti- satellite system.

[06:40:07]

A separate official says it does not involve a weapon that would be used to attack people.

MATTINGLY: House Intelligence Committee Chairman Mike Turner raised the alarm yesterday in public. In a controversial move, he announced that he'd made information concerning a, quote, "serious national security threat" available to all members of Congress.

Joining us now, former European affairs director at the National Security Council, Alexander Vindman.

Just to start with on this, when you look back at kind of congressional hearings over the course of the last couple of years, you've seen top military officials raise concerns about kind of the broad concept of something like this. How real should the concern be right now in terms of Russia's ability to develop a capability like this?

LT. COL. ALEXANDER VINDMAN (RET.), FORMER EUROPEAN AFFAIRS DIRECTOR, NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL: Good morning.

I would say that this is a mildly interesting piece of news, and maybe not for the expected reasons, mainly because this is another effort for Russia to tear up the last of a - of the remaining arms control treaties. There's a 1967 treaty that prohibits the weaponization of space, specifically nuclear weapons being employed as weapons in space. And the fact that the Russians may be developing something, and we're talking about years down the road, to pose a threat to either our satellite systems or either too, you know, the U.S. directly, that's another effort for Russia to undo, unwind, even a decades old effort to limit dangerous weapons. So, this is a pattern.

The other reason I think this is interesting is because it looks like maybe Mike Turner sensationalized some news that's relevant probably three, four, or five years down the road about a new capability, and it looks like he may have done that to try to light a fire under the Republicans to potentially pass this Ukraine supplemental, Ukraine funding bill. The capability itself from the reporting that I'm seeing is probably not -- doesn't merit the kind of acute threat that -- or the sensational kind of alarmism that we saw play out over the past 24 hours.

HARLOW: So, that -- that's an interesting point, Lieutenant Colonel. Jake Sullivan, the national security adviser, said he was surprised yesterday that Mike Turner, you know, talked about this publicly and showed it to those members of Congress. And then Democratic Congressman Seth Moulton characterized Turner's actions this way. Here he was on CNN just last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. SETH MOULTON (D-MA): It's important to understand that what the chairman of the House Intelligence Committee has done here, Mike Turner, is fundamentally leak information. He's - he is an intelligence leaker because what he did is he decided to take highly sensitive, compartmented intelligence -- that means that even if you have a very, you know, like a top-secret clearance or something, you only have access to the intelligence if you have a need to know -- and he shared it with every member of Congress.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: That is quite an accusation. Is that how you see it?

VINDMAN: I see something at least closer to that kind of vein of thought than the fact that there's a grave danger emerging out of this new bit of intelligence. I think, frankly, Mike Turner has been actually quite good on attempting to nudge support forward on Ukraine. And that seems to be the tactic that he chose to employ here. The merits of the threat, I don't warrant kind of this kind of action. And, frankly, the true grave danger is something that Donald Trump said several days ago about NATO, and that is a really disturbing, grave, direct threat to the United States.

HARLOW: Yes.

VINDMAN: When Donald Trump indicated that Russia is invited to attack NATO, that is -- that is something that undoes many, many years, decades of effort to demonstrate that NATO's commitment to defend its allies is iron clad, collective defense. That commentary from Donald Trump probably has actually probably accelerated Trump's - correction, Putin's thinking on NATO is vulnerable, that NATO - the seams within NATO can be attacked and that NATO could be unwound. And that is by far the most important recent development I think coming out of the United States or any other development that really does directly threaten the United States.

MATTINGLY: Yes, and it's important to note, last night he repeated it and doubled down on it -

HARLOW: Yes.

MATTINGLY: Making clear this wasn't some one-off or a mistake or something that he needed to correct. He very clearly believes it, which, as he's shown over the course of the last several years.

Lieutenant Colonel Alexander Vindman, we always appreciate your time, sir, thank you.

VINDMAN: Thank you.

MATTINGLY: Well, the battle at the border continues. ICE working on a plan that would release thousands of migrants. We'll discuss why, next.

HARLOW: And CNN on the front lines. The U.S. response to those Houthi attacks in the Red Sea. Our Natasha Bertrand shows us how dangerous these missions are.

[06:45:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NATASHA BERTRAND, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY REPORTER: A potential imminent threat by a Houthi drone that was flying over the Red Sea, that arm indicating that these fighter aircraft behind me, they had to be ready to respond potentially at a moment's notice.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: Welcome back.

A literal attack on the U.S. Constitution. Protesters arrested Wednesday for throwing red powder on the case that holds it, right there, in Washington, D.C. The National Archives put out a statement saying, quote, "the Constitution was unaffected" and it is - in an encasement, obviously. "No damage was done to the document itself." Two men stood in front of the case and spoke about clean water and a

livable climate before they were detained. The National Archives Rotunda will close today while crews clean all of that up.

MATTINGLY: That's great work on accomplishing absolutely nothing.

[06:50:00]

As a political battle over immigration continues in Washington, the agency responsible for protecting the border could be forced to make some very hard budget decisions. According to a source, the Immigration and Customs Enforcement, known as ICE, has drafted a contingency plan to cut the tension capacity and released thousands of migrants due to a budget shortfall. A source tells CNN and ICE is now facing a $700 million deficit. Detention facilities and deportation flights are among its most expensive budget items.

Now, in a statement, a Homeland Security Department spokesperson said, in part, "the administration has repeatedly requested additional resources for DHS' vital missions on the southwest border, and Congress has chronically underfunded them."

Let's bring back Coleman Hughes and Doug Heye.

Coleman, I think this is - what's so interesting to me about this is, this was part of the negotiations that were ongoing. Obviously, the president only wanted money, not major policy changes, and then they had a negotiation. They reached an agreement. But there was always the ask for funds.

HUGHES: Yes.

MATTINGLY: If there's no deal, there's no funds. This is what happens.

HUGHES: Yes, this is, I think, why the American people are so fed up with Congress and with both parties, which bear responsibility for this.

So, the Republican Party bears responsibility for this because they wanted to link the issues of support for Ukraine and Israel with the border. And as a result of their repeated requests to link it, we got a consensus bill that they then rejected, largely because Donald Trump sent the signal to. And - and the border crisis just continues to hammer cities, like Chicago and New York, in addition to hammering the actual border and border towns and so forth.

Democrats, and Biden, also bear responsibility for neglecting the border for several years as a way of signaling their difference from President Trump and allowing the crisis to grow and grow and grow and reach a crisis point.

So, this is just - this is absolutely unacceptable. Congress needs to stop playing politics and actually fund the agencies that need to enforce these policies.

HARLOW: Doug, who will voters hold more responsible in November for the failure on any substantive change.

HEYE: Well, I think we learned in New York that Republicans - or that voters are holding both parties accountable, depending on how the parties talk about it. So, Tom Suozzi, in this special election, leaned heavy on border security, heavier than Democrats typically do. And, you know, the good or bad news is, Congress is gone for two weeks, so they can't play politics right now. But the reality is, when they come back, there are going to be very serious questions about keeping government open, about this funding. And I sort of wonder if we have a separate conversation about the news with Russia and House intel and their report and whether or not that's real or they're just trying to send signals here to maybe get some other things done.

This, potentially, is -- is that same situation. Congress is going to do nothing for two weeks because they're gone. So, is the administration and ICE trying to send up a flare in the sky to get Congress to act when they come back, because the palpability of border funding is very real for Republicans and Democrats.

MATTINGLY: Can I ask, you know, to that point on the New York three result in the Tom Suozzi race, you'll be surprised to learn the speaker disagrees with your assessment of the effectiveness of Suozzi's positions.

Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA): But the result last night is not something, in my view, that Democrats should celebrate too much.

Their candidate ran like a Republican. He sounded like a Republican talking about the border and immigration, because everybody knows that's the top issue that is on the concern -- the hearts and minds of everybody.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: I mean I think the only thing I'd say to that is, yes, he ran like that and he won. And I don't know how much that can carry over into other states, other districts across the country, but he was able to utilize the fact that Republicans stopped one bipartisan proposal to address this. And I don't know the durability of that argument over a series of months, but clearly that's a big question right now.

HUGHES: No doubt. I mean it's also -- its not particularly unusual. I mean Eric Adams ran as the anti-crime mayor and won as a Democrat. So, in a Democratic city, it's not so unusual for Democrats to pivot on these kinds of -- kinds of wedge issues. But, ultimately, it remains to be seen what the voters will believe because Donald Trump can credibly claim that he has moved the Democratic Party closer to his initial position on the border.

HEYE: Totally.

MATTINGLY: Yes, it's very true.

HARLOW: Can we turn to Mitch McConnell, Doug, and sort of where he is as a leader in this party right now. He put out a statement reacting to the, you know, failure so far that the House will not take up this -- even the supplemental with Ukraine and Taiwan and Israel funding. And he said this, "every argument against this is wrong. Every single one of them. Not a single American soldier has lost their lives in this fight. We've got a bunch of people willing to kill Russians," meaning not American soldiers. "I can't find any argument against it that makes any sense."

Powerful words. Who is listening in his party?

HEYE: Well, he's trying to make sure that he can hold that - that part of the Republican base that used to be fervently anti-Russia and has - has been fractured. And I'm old enough to remember Phil Mattingly chasing members of Congress and senators down the hallways.

[06:55:02]

The Senate passed the big House --

HARLOW: Quite a sight.

HEYE: Yes. Oh, yes, he wears sneakers and everything.

HARLOW: Yes.

MATTINGLY: I did not. How dare you?

HEYE: Not as fast as Dana Bash in a hallway, by the way.

MATTINGLY: Very true.

HEYE: But, you know, the Senate passed this. What's the House going to do? The House passes, what's the Senate going to do? This is a very typical tug of war. But McConnell realizes that the party has changed. And a lot of this is sort of predictable. Ted Cruz is mad at Mitch McConnell, you know, film at 11. We're used to that. But there are real fractures within the party on this. And we're seeing not just McConnell but other members, Senator Tillis from North Carolina being a good example, to try and redefine Republicans in that Reagan coalition since. And it may work. It may not. We just don't know.

HARLOW: Yes.

MATTINGLY: It's a fascinating dynamic. McConnell is still the leader and McConnell will probably be leader again next Congress, if he's still around. But, like, his conference has just moved in a different direction with all their new folks.

HEYE: Uh-huh.

MATTINGLY: Coleman, Doug, thanks, guys.

HEYE: Thank you. HARLOW: Do you wear sneakers?

MATTINGLY: No, I never did. And that's really offensive.

HARLOW: You should try it sometime.

MATTINGLY: It's really offensive that he would say that.

HARLOW: All right, moving on.

Right now police are working hard this morning to try to find the motive behind the Kansas Super Bowl parade shooting. It left one person dead and more than 20 injured, including nine children. More reporting on that straight ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:00:04]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is absolutely a tragedy. The likes of which we would have never expected in Kansas City.