Return to Transcripts main page

CNN This Morning

Ukraine Eyes Massive Russian Troop Buildup in South; Navalny's Death Triggers Protests, Arrests Across Russia; Trump Rails Against $355M Ruling in Civil Fraud Case, Hawks Trump Sneakers. Aired 6-6:30a ET

Aired February 19, 2024 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[06:00:25]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, everyone. I'm John Berman with Audie Cornish in New York. It's good to be here. It's been a minute for me.

Poppy and Phil are off this morning.

A key Ukrainian town falling to the Russians. Ukraine's Army desperately low on supplies, with Congress fighting over for that new aid bill.

AUDIE CORNISH, CNN ANCHOR: The Kremlin claims he went for a walk, fell ill and collapsed, but this morning, the family of Alexei Navalny say they can't even get access to his body. We're live in Moscow from the fallout from Navalny's death.

And Donald Trump outraged after being ordered to pay $355 million in his civil fraud trial. The former president's next move: $400 high- tops.

CNN THIS MORNING starts right now.

BERMAN: All right, Ukraine has suffered a major setback, while the House is on vacation with no path forward on passing desperately needed aid. Video shows Russian forces raising a flag in the city of Avdiivka after Ukrainian troops withdrew.

President Biden is blaming congressional inaction for the withdrawal and warning that more Ukrainian towns could fall to the Russians soon. Ukraine's Army is under serious pressure on multiple fronts as Russia is on the attack, and there is word of a huge Russian troop buildup in the South.

CORNISH: The death of Alexei Navalny in a Russian prison is putting renewed pressure on Congress to act. New this morning, we're told Navalny's mother and lawyers tried to get into the morgue where his body's allegedly being held, but they were denied access.

We have team coverage this morning, and we're going to start with Nick Paton Walsh near the Southern Ukrainian city of Mykolaiv.

And Nick, could you just start by talking about how significant this gain is for Russia in this ongoing battle and what Ukraine's strategy is now?

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Avdiivka has been the source of key fighting over past months. Russia again, throwing everything it really could at a town of moderate strategic importance.

But on Saturday, Ukraine admitted that it was going to withdraw its troops, essentially not wanting to sacrifice many more lives in the defense of a city, it believed it would eventually probably have to hand over to the Russians.

Zelenskyy in Munich at the weekend, Ukraine's president suggesting that there'd been seven dead Russians for every dead Ukrainian in that fight there. But still all the same, they had to pull back.

And it's now leaving a real sense of concern here amongst Ukrainians about where it may fall next. There've been some harrowing stories emerging on social media in Ukraine here, many talking about it, about some of the Ukrainian wounded that were left behind, who appear to have been killed by the Russians as they advanced. Some harrowing final messages from them. It was impossible, it seemed, to evacuate them.

But Avdiivka had been held by Ukraine since 2014 when Russia first invaded close to occupied areas there, certainly. And I think there's a fear here, as you suggested, that other towns may follow.

Vice President Kamala Harris talked about political gamesmanship in Munich. Well here, it's not a game. It's a stark reality. And we are seeing near where the Southern counteroffensive had minimal gains in the summer around the town of Robotyne, talk of severe Russian pressure there; potentially in the Northeast near Kharkiv, a town called Kupiansk; and potentially around Bakhmut and to the South of Avdiivka, as well.

Russia building up, Ukraine feeling weak, and a real sense, I think, that this aid, with the two weeks we have now before Congress even gets to talk about it again, that aid is now not here. And the effect is palpable.

Back to you.

BERMAN: Such a dangerous, precarious situation. Nick Paton Walsh, thank you so much for being there.

CORNISH: Now, protests and arrests across Russia following the death of Alexei Navalny. Hundreds of mourners showing up at makeshift memorials and hundreds taken into custody for protesting the dissident's death.

BERMAN: Russian state media is downplaying the story, with the Kremlin insisting that Navalny fell ill after taking a walk, then collapsed and died. There's still no word on the whereabouts of his body.

CNN'S Matthew Chance is live in Moscow this morning. Matthew, what has the reaction been in Russia since Friday? [06:05:03]

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I mean, it's been a shocked reaction. I mean, everybody knew who Alexei Navalny was, as the country's most prominent opposition leader. And everybody is shocked, if not surprised, that he met this untimely death in his penal colony in the far North of the country.

You're joining me now in the middle of Moscow, right outside the FSB headquarters, where you can see people are still coming. There's a lady just done. That man. There's some more people over here. They're coming to pay their respects, to offer sympathy and condolences to the family and friends and the organization of Alexei Navalny.

These are all the flowers that have been put down so far. Just go ahead. (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

And as I say, this is a monument to the victims of repression during the Soviet period. And so it's interesting that this is the place where people have chosen to come and pay their respects to Alexei Navalny.

There's a photograph of him here. Somebody has laid that. People are putting traditional red roses, a children's picture over here saying on the tombstone there, "Alexei Navalny, geroy," which means "hero." And that's how, of course, many people in this country see him as.

Now, just the act, John, of putting that flower on this memorial is risky in a country like Russia, because all kinds of dissent, all kinds of political opposition have been crushed by the Kremlin. And even though people are doing this now, it's not large numbers. But as I said, a steady flow, as you can see, shows just how angry and how -- how much people are sort of braving that repression to come out and put these flowers on this monument.

Remember, across the country, hundreds of people have been dragged from these snowy parks in towns and cities across Russia and taken away and detained for doing exactly this. So it is a huge risk that people are taking.

This is a whole line of people coming in now. A huge risk that people are taking to come out and pay their respects to Alexei Navalny, Russia's most prominent opposition figure -- John.

CORNISH: Matthew Chance, live for us in Moscow. Thank you.

BERMAN: Look at that. Look at that line of people.

CORNISH: And still coming, even though the cameras are there.

BERMAN: Going to pay their respects. Courageous people.

With us now, retired U.S. Army Major Mike Lyons and Russian-born writer and journalist and filmmaker, Mikhail Zygar, author of "War and Punishment: Putin, Zelenskyy, and the Path to Russia's Invasion of Ukraine." Mikhail, I just want to start with you, because you have an essay that you just published on Alexei Navalny. And you said, "He won't be the president of future Russia. He'll have to be the founding father of the future Russia. He is with us now forever as a perfect example, as a messiah, as a superhero for many generations on whose story children will grow up."

So you write that he is somehow martyred. How do you know that this death will lead to something, and that Alexei Navalny didn't die in vain?

MIKHAIL ZYGAR, AUTHOR/JOURNALIST/FILMMAKER: You know, we -- we can't know anything. We can hope. We -- for many years, we had hoped that Alexei Navalny was doomed [SIC] to be Russia's future George Washington. And now we -- a lot of people do that -- a lot of people compare him to some kind of Russia's Martin Luther King.

So yes, we hope that his example, as he was probably one of the few politicians in Russia who obviously believed in democratic values and never used the opportunity to describe the future Russia as democratic country, not an empire, not a dictatorship, but a country that would respect human rights and and -- and democracy.

So, yes, I think that that -- that kind of values that were always expressed by Alexei is very important. And even more important is the fact that today, his wife announced that -- that she's going to act, and she's going to continue his political fight.

She has always been trying to keep a low profile and to remain neutral. Now she -- she's becoming the politician, like you know, Corazon Aquino, Philippines of last century.

Yes, that's that's her picture.

CORNISH: Mikhail, they were already a lot of protests in Russia, or at least sort of -- we were observing this criticism of Russia's handling of the war in Ukraine.

Now that Russia seems to be on its forward foot, and we'll bring in Major Lyons on this, as well. Does this undermine again another avenue of opposition?

ZYGAR: You know, we -- we have never really had proper opposition as -- as it should be. There was no -- any kind of political protests and political process at all. And Alexei Navalny for years has been the only politician.

[06:10:04]

And yes, it's -- it's important that -- that someone is leading the protest, because all -- most of the active protesters are now in exile, although it's important that the presidential election is going to held the next month in March.

There are only five (ph) candidates, but Alexei Navalny announced that his strategy is to vote for any candidate except for Vladimir Putin, which means that even the puppet candidate could be potentially dangerous for Vladimir Putin.

So that -- that could be a test for -- for the opposition to get mobilized.

BERMAN: Yes. The wife of Alexei Navalny, Yulia Navalnaya, is speaking right now. She has been in Europe, meeting with leaders there. And she is saying -- sending defiant messages.

She's saying that she will continue the work of Alexei Navalny, continue to fight for our country. She says, "Putin killed half of me, half of my heart and half of my soul. But the other half of me remains in it, tells me that I don't have the right to surrender, don't be silent. Resist. Take to the streets. No one except ourselves will protect us."

She says in a video, "Share with me in rage."

So, powerful words there. We will have to see the effect that it has on the ground in Russia.

In the meantime, Major Lyons, look, it really doesn't seem like this is happening in a vacuum. The death of Alexei Navalny inside Russia and the Russian gains on the battlefield in Ukraine, Avdiivka falling now to the Russians

You and I have spent a lot of time in front of a map there. What is the situation, do you think, on the ground in Ukraine? And what does the fall of Avdiivka spell for the future?

MAJ. MIKE LYONS (RET.), U.S. ARMY: So I'm not think Russia started to win just yet. I think it's a setback, no question, for Ukraine. And the fact that they've had to watch their ammunition, and they've had some setbacks, there's no question of that.

But it took Russia almost four months, almost 40,000 troops to get 30 square kilometers. It's not what you'd call a military success.

Russia does this, in terms of they have to show some kind of success on the battlefield for their troops and for their back-home people. And everything goes there.

So I just don't believe that Ukraine's done yet. I don't think this is going to be the tipping point that's going to start the Ukraine military to be losing these battles.

Now, surely, they're going to have to consolidate forces to the Northeast, as we saw. And then in the South, Robotyne and those places like there.

But at the end of the day, Ukraine military makes more with less, and they continue to do that. We saw Denmark is now going to give artillery rounds to Ukraine.

I believe that, when the next few months, if they can hold off, too, that aid package will come. And they'll be back to the normal defensive lines that they've been -- they've been using at before.

CORNISH: You said hold off. But obviously, there's many question marks here with the U.S. Congress. What are your concerns?

LYONS: I'm very concerned. I think that they likely have anywhere from, let's say 120 to 180 days. That'd be three to six months, in order to hold off Russian capability.

That become --

CORNISH: What they have now?

LYONS: What they have now. I mean, that becomes the point where they then threaten Kyiv. They threaten these places to the North. Given the industrial capability that Russia has, given the reinforcements that they've made.

Air defense and artillery are the key right now. If they can get both of those weapon systems into the theater, Ukraine military can hold off.

BERMAN: It's a good time for Congress to take two weeks off, right? The House off for the next two weeks, when every day, every minute counts.

CORNISH: Must be nice. Yes.

BERMAN: All right. Major Mike Lyons and Mikhail Zygar, thank you both very much.

So Donald Trump lashing out and selling very expensive sneakers after a $355 million judgment against him in New York. Is the penalty a threat to his campaign, a threat to his business empire?

CORNISH: And another atmospheric river event targeting the West Coast. Potentially deadly flooding. And that threat could face more than 37 million people.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[06:17:40]

DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT, 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Our court system is a mess. What's happening in our country, they have to straighten it out. All you see is bitterness and revenge and hatred.

And these repulsive abuses of power are not just an attack on me. They're really the attack on you and all Americans. It's a disgusting, it's a disgusting thing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: Donald Trump railing against a New York judge who ordered him and his companies to pay nearly $355 million in a civil fraud case.

Now at his campaign rally in Michigan, the Republican frontrunner claimed, without evidence, that he's being politically targeted in these cases, and he vowed to change the nation's legal system if he's re-elected.

BERMAN: With us now, Moynihan public scholar fellow at City College, Christina Greer; CNN political commentator and former senior Biden white House communications aide Jamal Simmons; and CNN senior political commentator and former special assistant to President George W. Bush, Scott Jennings.

Christina, where I come from, $400 million is a lot of money, you know? And I keep -- the last two days I've sat here this weekend. You get all these takes about, oh, is it good for Donald Trump? Is it bad for Donald Trump?

It's a lot of money.

CORNISH: You're just there with your calculator.

BERMAN: It's a lot of money. I mean, does -- how does that, do you think, impact him?

CHRISTINA GREER, PUBLIC SCHOLAR FELLOW, CITY COLLEGE: As a professor, I'm going to say $400 million is a lot of money, as well.

There are a few things. His supporters, it means nothing to them. All it does is feed the narrative that Donald Trump has fed them, which is he's being attacked by the legal system; by Tish James, the New York attorney general; by Joe Biden; the entire Democratic Party.

His supporters are unmoved. They are unbothered. And anything that Donald Trump says, they follow along.

Now for the rest of the country, which probably, I would say, 50 to 60 percent, they're looking at this and saying, This is a lot of money. A, does he have it? B, will he ever pay it back? And C, going into the presidency, if he is the Republican nominee -- which he is not just yet -- and if he does somehow, win reelection, what happens then?

Because don't forget, this is just one of the many court cases that Donald Trump is facing. We haven't talked about Atlanta. We haven't talked about Washington, D.C. He still has other cases in New York.

And so, it's an embarrassment for, I would think, the democratic process, the small "D" democratic process, that we have a Republican candidate that has gotten this far, who all New Yorkers know, he's a grifter. He lies, he cheats, he steals. This has been his M.O. in operating business in New York for a very long time. He's finally going to have to pay the piper.

[06:20:12]

The question is, will he actually do it? But I don't think that any of this matters to his real supporters. CORNISH: I want to ask about how the party is kind of coalescing

around him. Senator -- South Carolina Senator Tim Scott said that this ruling reveals that the U.S. has a two-tiered justice system. But also it won't affect, as you said, how regular Americans see Trump.

Scott Jennings, I want to listen to Tim Scott and then come to you.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TIM SCOTT (R-SC): The American people are more focused on their future than Donald Trump's past. What they're more focused on is making sure that our Southern border is secured.

We're looking at almost 10 million illegal crossings by the election. The American people aren't asking the questions about legal challenges. The American people are asking questions about economic challenges.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: Scott, by now you're familiar with what I would call the Trump pivot, sort of you ask a lawmaker about something that's happened, and they pivot to something else, usually the border.

How do you think this answer is going to play over and over again over the next couple months?

SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I think Tim Scott gave a pretty authentic view of what a Republican would say if just pulled one off the street and asked them.

They do think, by the way, these New York cases, not just the one you're discussing with the big judgment, but everything he's got going on in New York is politically motivated. They think Donald Trump can't get a fair shake there. And they think these people are -- are absolutely trying to damage him as he leads Joe Biden in the race for the presidency.

So all that you've heard, all that's been said, I actually don't agree with our -- our other panelists. They're not -- they're not unmoved, his base. There outraged by what they see going on in New York.

And I would say they're even more motivated than they were before.

But I think you're going to see a lot of Republican senators and congressmen continue to say exactly what Tim Scott said, which is they focus on all these things, because they don't want to focus on the failures of this administration.

I think it's a -- I think it's actually a pretty good political argument for a lot of folks, and you're going to hear it. Tim Scott gave it pretty authentically. And you're going to hear it more and more as we go on through this campaign.

BERMAN: Jamal. JAMAL SIMMONS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Today is Presidents Day. And I'm old enough to remember when this used to be George Washington had a birthday that was celebrated and then Abraham Lincoln had a birthday that we celebrated.

Washington was the father of the country. He chose not to run again, because he wanted to make sure we had, you know, a peaceful transfer of power.

Abe Lincoln kept the country together in the midst of a civil war.

And now we have Donald Trump, who wants to lead the country again. And in fact, is fomenting violence at the Capitol that we saw in January 6. And is trying to take the office back with some -- and declaring he'll be a dictator for a day.

I can't think of anybody who is more contrarian to the traditions of the American presidents that we hold in honor than Donald Trump.

And these court cases, the $355 million judgment, not only was the dollar amount. It also said that he couldn't run a business in New York City, in New York state for three years. So he can't run a business, but people are in the Republican Party are thinking about letting him run the country.

It just seems like we have got to grab ahold of this. He's not a serious person. It's a really serious time, and we need a serious president.

BERMAN: With serious sneakers.

CORNISH: I want to -- yes, we want to challenge you on that, because at Sneaker Con in Philly -- shout-out to Philly -- Trump actually launched a high-top. Was it over the weekend?

BERMAN: Yes.

CORNISH: A couple of days.

BERMAN: And it seems like they've been around forever, because they're so classy.

CORNISH: Because people have been talking about them so much; 399 bucks a pop.

My thesis on this -- Hear me out -- is that this is a kind of place where you go to maybe a nod to the Trump-curious young male voter, which may be a problem for Biden.

SIMMONS: It could be a problem for Biden in the broader sense of him going after these voters.

CORNISH: Black and brown specifically.

SIMMONS: Sure.

CORNISH: I mean, like this, it was crazy for him to be there, but also, I was like, well, maybe not so crazy.

SIMMONS: Yes. You've got to -- so there's a guy on Instagram named Plies who's a rapper who, like, goes after these sneakers pretty hard over the weekend. I don't think anybody's for --

CORNISH: Just for looks.

SIMMONS: But also, you know, I remember I interviewed Wale, the artist, a few years ago for a digital show that I did. And he just summed it up perfectly. He's like, it's a finesse. The whole Trump thing. It's a con, right?

And so the people who are actually familiar with the world know that the entire Trump enterprise is a con. And now we're seeing it on stage where he's trying to hock sneakers, right?

He's supposed to be trying to figure out how do we solve the war in Ukraine and what do we do about homelessness and even the border, which is on his politics, right? Instead, he's hawking sneakers!

CORNISH: But not everybody there thought that. I think we heard from one supporter who appreciated him being there there were.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We need him! He's a Christian. He's a good, honest man. They're after him for no reason. Go out and vote for Trump! Vote Trump!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[06:25:05]

CORNISH: There were very strange clips that came out of this, no shade to her. But, like, there was booing at one point. There was cheering at one point.

Scott, what do you make of this way to spend time for the Trump campaign?

JENNINGS: Yes, listening to Jamal talk about what Donald Trump should be worried about, I'm reminded of Joe Biden's video that he put out on the Super Bowl, complaining about the number of snack chips in a bag.

I mean, you want to talk about small balling the presidency? Ask the guy, who's currently in office right now, who is spending time on crazy things, in my opinion.

Look, people get upset when Trump tries to break into these pop culture issues. I don't know why. I mean, if you're running for president; and you're trying to get a few votes here and a few votes there; and you're trying to break into non-traditional constituencies. I guess that's what offends people about it.

I'm not buying any issues. The only shoes I'm buying around here are for the four kids that I got to put shoes on every morning before we go to school.

But there's people who love this stuff. They obviously identified a marketplace that might be receptive to it. And according to what I read this morning; he sold them all.

So you know what? I don't really -- this doesn't bother me, but obviously, it bothers some.

BERMAN: Next step is Trump Hush Puppies. You know, for the kids, for Scott -- for Scott's kids.

CORNISH: That's so specific.

BERMAN: For the kids. And I will say, it will not be long. Josh Hawley and J.D. Vance are going to be wearing these --

CORNISH: Definitely runners.

BERMAN: -- Trump sneakers in the Senate well.

CORNISH: I can picture Josh Hawley in runners.

BERMAN: Yes.

SIMMONS: Is Kanye behind this? Like this -- is this, like, the post Yeezy Adidas?

GREER: I think they're called the January 6th.

CORNISH: He does know, at least, how to make a shoe. So I would say no.

Guys, stay with us for a little bit. See, there were things to talk about.

BERMAN: There were.

CORNISH: Democratic Congresswoman Rashida Tlaib is calling on her constituents to vote against President Biden in Michigan's primary. We'll explain why.

BERMAN: And new details about the deaths of two police officers and a firefighter at a home in Minnesota. What was happening inside when a gunman opened fire?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:30:00]