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RFK Jr. Downplays 1/6, Questions Prosecution Of Rioters; Rep. Dan Kildee (D-MI), Is Interviewed About Congress Returns From Recess, Ukraine Aid On The Line. Aired 6:30-7a ET
Aired April 08, 2024 - 06:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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ROBERT F. KENNEDY JR. (I), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You can rebuild a capital.
What's the worst thing that can happen, right? I mean, we have an entire military, a Pentagon a few blocks away.
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KASIE HUNT, CNN ANCHOR: What's the worst that could happen? That was independent presidential candidate Robert F. Kennedy Jr. Speaking about the January 6th Capital attack and interviews last year. We are sort of learning more about what exactly Kennedy thinks about what happened that day.
After his campaign sent out fundraising e-mails last week referencing January 6th activists, Kennedy was essentially forced to put out this statement on Friday clarifying his stance, quote, I have not examined the evidence in detail, but reasonable people, including Trump opponents, tell me there is little evidence of a true insurrection. They observed that the protesters carried no weapons had no plans or ability to seize the reins of government and that Trump himself had urged them to protest peacefully.
Kennedy later retracted the claim that there were no weapons there that day. You can see here that is quite obviously not true. Kennedy also -- appoint a special counsel if elected president to investigate the prosecution of January 6th defendants writing that, quote, political objectives, and quote, may be at play. Former Capitol Police Sergeant Aquilino Gonell joins our panel now to talk more about this. Sir, thank you very much for being here.
SGT. AQUILINO GONELL, FMR. SERGEANT WITH CAPITOL POLICE: Thanks for having me.
HUNT: I was at the complex that day. You were protecting all of us. So thank you, again, and you were injured in doing so. Kennedy questions here whether this was a, quote unquote, true insurrection. Can you tell us what actually happened that day? GONELL: Or anyone who take that position is clearly not this or to be present, especially a candidate because he's used parroting what Donald Trump has said in the past. He probably watched it on T.V. I lived it. I survived it. And we defended the Capitol. These people were not there to set up camp for picnic. They were trying to hunt down their lead officials were doing a duly elected procedure for the constitutional procedure to of -- the transfer of power at that time.
[06:35:00]
HUNT: When you hear him talk about the idea that there should be a special counsel to investigate how these prosecutions take place. What does that mean to you in terms of trying to overthrow justice that has been imposed on these people who attacked the Capitol?
GONELL: I mean, it's something absurd, because these people have been processed through the court system. These are individuals who were armed on that day. They made threats, not only to ourselves, the police officer in full uniform, but to the members of Congress, the elected officials, Senator, their staff. And they have gone through the court system and found guilty in by the judge and by their peers. And that's one of the reasons why I continue to go to court. I was assaulted by more than 40 people that day. And to this day, I've continued to go attest to what happened to me, to my colleagues into our country.
HUNT: And when Kennedy of course, says that they had no plans or ability to seize the reins of government, no plans, they were one part of their very extensive a plan that we have learned about in terms of what Donald Trump was trying to do here.
Matt Gorman, can I ask you about kind of the politics of Kennedy himself, what is going on here? I mean the fact that it really does feel like this is how he actually feels. And, you know, he has done this in a couple of different places. He'll say one thing, when he's speaking to friendlier audiences or places where he's not being challenged, that seems to be his two views. He's done this on vaccines. And then when he is coming under more mainstream scrutiny, he tried to do this to me. He tried to say I never said that a vaccine was not safe and effective. Obviously, that wasn't true. It seems like the same thing is going on here. Why is it that Kennedy is where he actually is, it seems to be on January 6th, and then trying to clean it up.
MATT GORMAN, FMR. SENIOR ADVISER TO TIM SCOTT'S PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN: A couple of things, Kennedy is doing, as well as any third party candidate has since Ross Perot in '96. I think people don't talk about that enough. He's on the ballot in Arizona, which is I won't say a must win for Biden, but it's close. And so he has real electoral consequences here. And I think what we often talk about is the horseshoe theory of politics, where people on kind of the far left and the far right, often kind of meet and share a lot of similar views.
You talk to a lot of folks in 2016, you'd ask them who their first choice was, either they say Bernie or Trump, and their second choice was the other one. So there's a lot more ideological similarity. And I think, whether it's the right and the left and some of these outer edges. But you're right, I remember that interview very well. And, you know, he does try to have it both ways. And yes, this seems to be one of those times.
MOLLY BALL, SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT, WALL STREET JOURNAL: Well, look, this is, I think, for Kennedy, this all goes back to his father who he believes was assassinated by the CIA. And so there's no conspiracy theory that he isn't interested in, whether it's, you know, alternative explanations for what happened on January 6th, or all of this stuff about vaccines, which, you know, he does selectively try to paper over, but which he very much believes, I mean, he has funded basically the entire American anti-vaccine movement for going on a decade now.
So this is someone who is very sincere in his belief in a lot of conspiracy theories. And it's not that surprising, I think, to hear him, you know, retconning the history of January 6th, seeking alternative explanations, believing that what we've been told, you know, in the media and what's actually factual, believing that there's something else going on and that we're being sort of lied to by the elites. This is a big part of who he is.
LULU GARCIA NAVARRO, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: This is a threat to Donald Trump. I mean, when he takes these positions, this actually means that he will be taking more voters from Donald Trump.
HUNT: All right, so speaking of Donald Trump, I do want to get this in Maureen Dowd wrote in "The New York Times" over the weekend about Donald Trump's bloodsoaked language, including this, quote, apocalyptic vibes stirred by Trump's violent rhetoric and talk of blood baths, an unspoken Trump threat is that there will be a blood bath again in Washington like January 6th, if he doesn't win. She ties this to Shakespeare, in Macbeth, Shakespeare uses bloody imagery to chart the creation of a tyrant. Trump's raw power grab after his 2020 loss might have failed, but he's inflaming his base with language straight out of Macbeth's trip to hell. Blood will have blood as Macbeth says. Let's listen to some of the language Trump is actually using.
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DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It's got to be a blood bath for the country.
The carnage bloodshed and killing.
Biden's border blood bath.
They're poisoning the blood of our country.
Bloodthirsty criminals.
That's what it is. It's a bloodbath.
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HUNT: Sgt. Gonell, what do you hear in Trump's language when he talks about blood baths?
GONELL: I mean, it reminds me of when I was in the tunnel, both my hands were bleeding that day. And that -- and those are because of his people were attacking me in the tunnel. And the truth of the matter is I was doing my job. I was defending the Capitol. I protected the members of Congress from -- regardless what their political views or ideologies were. So the rhetoric continued to escalate and that's why are we seeing what happened the last time and that's when the guardrails were in place now those people who were defending that institution, the elections, the judicial are people in procedural position of power that thought that violence was not a means to achieve any success.
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And politically, a lot of those people are not there anymore, including officers who had to retire because of the rhetoric, the violence that we know -- how we've been treated. The matter the fact is that I protected Nancy Pelosi just as much as I protected Mitch McConnell and Kevin McCarthy on that day, but yet they had not even cited -- they had not even consider awarding, putting the name, a plaque that they -- that Congress passed a law on the omnibus two years ago. And they had not even done that to support that -- as a show of support for the police officer on that day on January 6th.
HUNT: Well, thank you again for everything you did that day. And thank you very much for being here this morning. I really appreciate it.
All right, we're just hours away from the eclipse across America. Millions of Americans have descended upon the path of totality. And the eclipse will first hit the U.S. in Texas and then we'll see it travel northeast and up through New England. CNN correspondent Rosa Flores is in Kerrville, Texas this morning with more. Rosa, good morning to you. What kind of crowds are you expecting? How are they preparing there?
ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Kasie, good morning. We're expecting about 100,000 people to descend to this little town of Kerrville. Welcome to Kerrville, Texas, in the heart of the Texas Hill Country. Everything here is Texas size, the food portions, the crowd sizes, and yes, the eclipse glasses, the ones that you see behind me, they're size small.
But here's the thing. So this town has about 25,000 people. That's the population according to the mayor. But they're expecting the crowds to be 75,000 or 100,000. And so this town is preparing. But here's what makes it so special. I want you to look at this map from NASA, you can see that there's an X on the map.
One of these paths of totality that's from an annular eclipse that happened in October. The other path of totality is for today's eclipse. And you see that there's an X. Well guess where Kerrville is, right in the center of that X. That's why people think that there is just something special about this location, and that there's going to be special energy. I'm kind of getting goosebumps right now. One of the businesses in town that's buzzing with people is a business called Zen and Alchemy, and we have video of it. They have merchandise, earrings, they have glasses. But one of the things that people go there to see is if they can get healing, or pre-eclipse alignment of the body and mind. So we asked him about to worry about the weather because everyone's worried. Are we going to be able to see the eclipse even though X marks the spot and this is supposed to be amazing? Will we see it or not? The good news is this is what we heard at Zen and Alchemy. Take a listen.
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FLORES: Hoping for good weather, so.
RISCHA LEINWEBER, CO-OWNER ZEN & ALCHEMY: Hoping for good weather. But even if it's not, the energy is still there. It's still going to get dark for four minutes and whatever.
FLORES: -- see at all, because the cloud -- potential cloud cover.
LEINWEBER: It's still there.
FLORES: We're still going to feel it.
LEINWEBER: Absolutely.
FLORES: So that might be the big price for the day if it rains or if it storms or whatever.
LEINWEBER: You'll still get the energy from the eclipse. Absolutely.
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FLORES: Now, Kasie, I'm really hoping to ward off that evil weather with this evil eye that I got there at Zen and Alchemy. Look, I'm trying to do my part here so that these 100,000 people can enjoy the eclipse in Kerrville because X does mark the spot. And I do think this is going to work and just -- I just did it. Maybe I should do it one more time.
HUNT: Yes. We got to get you a gift. And then you can just watch it over and over again.
FLORES: The skies will clear.
HUNT: Rosa, thank you. You're awesome as always. Send me a clip to your glasses live shot when you get to that part in your day. I appreciate it. Have a good one.
All right --
FLORES: That's coming up. Thank you for the tease Kasie.
HUNT: Yes, for sure.
All right, coming up next, Congress is back in town. Congressman Dan Kildee is here to tell us if the House Speaker can continue in that job. We're looking forward to that.
And this --
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HUNT: Bonnie Tyler 1983 hit rediscovered courtesy of the eclipse.
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HUNT: All right, 47 minutes past the hour. Here's your Morning Roundup. Today's solar eclipse will be visible to millions across North America, including 32 million who will watch it along the path of totality. Canada's Niagara Falls region even declared a state of emergency ahead of a flood of visitors. Live coverage of the eclipse across America begins at 1:00 p.m. Eastern here on CNN. You can also catch a pre-show at noon. So I would just stick around all day, I'm being honest.
Egypt state media reporting significant progress in the latest ceasefire and hostage talks. The U.S., Israel, Hamas and Qatar have been negotiating in Cairo since Sunday.
Police arrest a California man for allegedly setting fire to Senator Bernie Sanders office in Vermont. Officials say Shant Soghomonian was caught on security cameras spraying liquid near the door and then lighting it on fire.
President Biden may have a hard time getting on Ohio's ballot unless Democrats make changes or the state legislature steps in. Ohio has an August 7th deadline to certify a presidential candidate. But this year's Democratic convention where delegates officially select the party's nominees doesn't start until August 19th. That's a wrinkle.
All right, Congress is back in town this week. House Speaker Mike Johnson in a pretty harsh spotlight, he faces an ouster threat from inside his own conference, as he considers bringing forward legislation to provide additional aid to Ukraine. Johnson will need a significant number of Democratic votes for any Ukraine funding to pass.
One option pairing Ukraine aid with funding for Israel could be even more complicated after World Central Kitchen Aid workers were killed in Israeli air strike last week. Joining me now is Michigan Democratic Congressman Dan Kildee. Congressman, good morning. Thank you so much for being here.
REP. DAN KILDEE (D-MI): Good morning. Thank you.
HUNT: Let's start with this threat against the House Speaker Mike Johnson coming from Marjorie Taylor Greene. Is your expectation that he will move something going forward on Ukraine aid? And do you think you might be able to support him keeping his job if he does that?
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KILDEE: Well, first of all, he has to do his job and that means meeting the needs of the American people and that means supporting the people of Ukraine. So we should move forward on Ukraine aid package, regardless of the politics. I mean, that's what political courage requires.
Having said that, one of the easiest people to talk to in Congress is Hakeem Jeffries. Mike Johnson ought to have a conversation with Hakeem specifically about this subject. I'm not going to --
HUNT: That hasn't happened yet.
KILDEE: I don't know that it's happened specifically on whether or not Democrats would provide some support to Speaker Johnson if in fact, Marjorie Taylor Greene makes this move. As you may recall, we made a similar offer publicly, to Kevin McCarthy. And Kevin told us, basically to jump in the lake. Where's Kevin McCarthy right now?
HUNT: Is he in the lake?
KILDEE: Somewhere in the lake. If Mike Johnson wants to govern, he has to recognize the logic, that the functional majority of the House of Representatives is comprised of Democrats and Republicans. We're willing to be a part of that functional majority, not just out of the kindness of our hearts, but because we think it's in the interest of the American people.
But that will mean having a conversation, it could lead to some Democrats being willing to support Speaker Johnson. Chaos is not good for the country. But he's got to be willing to work with us. And like I said, Hakeem is one of my closest friends in the House.
HUNT: Yes.
KILDEE: He's also a really easy person to have a conversation with a subject such as this. And I would encourage Speaker Johnson, if he's interested to make that call.
HUNT: Very interesting. OK. Congressman, in the wake of the killing of the seven World Central Kitchen Aid workers, President Biden has really ratcheted up his, you know, they say that personally, he's very angry, he had a very tough call with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. Is President Biden striking the right balance here of his personal outrage and the policy of the United States?
KILDEE: I think he's getting to the place where I would like him to be.
HUNT: Which is elsewhere?
KILDEE: Which is a much tougher position when it comes to conditioning U.S. support for any ally, and the principles that we adhere to. I spoke with the President about this a few weeks ago at length and encouraged a different approach. I'm glad to see that that's taking place. It's never too late, I think, to do the right thing.
This is a situation particularly after the way we've seen the prosecution of this war go beyond what the U.S. would typically tolerate where the U.S. has not only an obligation, but clearly a right to say that if we are going to be asked to be a party to this effort, our principles and our values are going to have to be considered in the prosecution of this war.
And right now, the way Netanyahu is prosecuting their war on Hamas does not comport with American values in my opinion.
HUNT: So do you think that President Biden is at risk of losing Michigan in a general election if he doesn't make this shift, even though President Trump is clearly -- former President Trump is clearly to the right and more -- in many ways, could be considered more staunchly supportive of Israel?
KILDEE: I think it could have an effect on the outcome of the election, for sure. But I also have encouraged President and anyone else, to not look at this question through the political lens. It's I think it's a difficult position to be in. These jobs are tough. Elections have some, you know, or the policy decisions we make obviously has an impact on the election.
But this question transcends the four year election cycle. This is really a question about where the United States stands going into the future, how we want to stand on principles that says, look, every human life is sacred. Israeli lives are sacred. Every single Palestinian life is just as sacred. So if he if he pursues that approach, you know, I think in the long term, Michigan residents and people around the country will say, look, this is a reasonable approach.
I don't agree with everything that the President has done in this space. But I think he is clearly moving to a place that Michigan residents, myself included, will be, you know, aligned with him.
HUNT: Before we expand this conversation out to the table. I do want to ask you about Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. who put out a statement late last week questioning whether -- he said it wasn't a true insurrection on January 6th at the Capitol. What's your response to him?
KILDEE: I was there. I was trapped in the gallery. I saw the interview you did with Sergeant Gonell. He's a personal hero to me and my family. Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. owes an apology to Sergeant Gonell and every other officer who stood there and defended not just us as members of Congress and members of the media who are trapped but the democracy that we hold so sacred. It's an insult to our democracy. And it's an insult to those officers that a person who purports to be a candidate for president, Robert F Kennedy, Jr. and Donald Trump both owe an apology to those individuals.
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HUNT: Congressman Dan Kildee, thank you. I also want you to know that we've been personally thinking of you and your family. I know you've had some tragedy happen, so.
KILDEE: I really appreciate it.
HUNT: I appreciate you coming and doing this in a time. It's been difficult for you, I know.
KILDEE: Thank you.
HUNT: All right. Now this, can President Biden bank on baby boomers in his reelection bid. A new report shows a shift in polling. Politico's Steven Shepard reporting Biden is stronger with seniors this time around. Baby boomers seniors now, we're going to ask this one sit next to me here in a second about that. Writing, quote, polls show former President Donald Trump is ascendant with the youngest block of the electorate, even leading President Joe Biden in some surveys as less engaged young voters spurn Biden. Meanwhile, Biden is stronger with seniors than he was four years ago, even as his personal image has significantly diminished since he was elected last time.
Shepard notes the last time a Democrat carry the senior vote was Al Gore back in 2000. Congressman, I think you're the only baby boomer at our table. So I feel like I'm going to have to ask you this question first.
KILDEE: I used to be the youngest person at the table. And then one day I was the average now the oldest person in everything.
HUNT: We'll pay you. You're a good sport. What's going on here?
KILDEE: Well, I understand it. I just think at this point in time, and I think a lot of it has to do with the way younger people consume information. It's, I think, distorted that is sort of a reality on the ground.
HUNT: OK.
KILDEE: In the long term, I hope that during the course of the campaign messages, I think we'll get through that this is really about our future, more about the future, those younger people than it is about some of us whose futures may not have the longevity that's here as well.
HUNT: You'll be fine.
KILDEE: Yes.
HUNT: You got a lot of years ahead.
KILDEE: I hope so. It's a challenge for us. And I do think it means that we have to think about ways to communicate with those younger voters, so that they can see themselves in the conversation.
HUNT: What do you see here, Molly?
BALL: Well, I mean, if this trend holds up, it's actually more of a blessing than a challenge for the Democratic Party, because old people are a much larger swath of the electorate, and they vote much more than young people. And of course, everybody's vote counts, and everybody is precious and important in our democracy.
But you'd rather have that older bloc of voters than the younger bloc of voters in terms of how reliably they show up to the polls. And to your point about having once been the youngest person, this is all about generational replacement.
KILDEE: Yes.
BALL: The baby boomers, have been a more liberal generation than their parents going back to when they were kids out in the streets protesting. And so now they have aged into being the senior vote, and they have remained more liberal than the generation that came before.
HUNT: So they've actually kind of bucked that the trend that they say, usually people become more conservative. What do you see here, Matt?
GORMAN: I see what certainly gives rise to the explanation why Biden has really been keen on attacking Trump over Social Security and Medicare. He's really been hammering that lately. And look, I think if Trump wins this, we talked about a little bit before, it's going to be younger voters, specifically younger minority voters will be the reason he wins this election. Latinos, African American men can't say enough, they'll be the folks that might not have voted for Biden last time -- Trump that last time, but from this time.
NAVARRO: But I think that's why you're seeing Biden actually making a real play for college debt and trying to forgive a loan forgiveness, because that is something that pulls very well with young people. It impacts young people, and people want to see money in their pockets. It's something that really resonates also to minority voters.
So I mean, this is still -- we're still, you know, seven months away from this election. Am I -- I think that's about right. And I think there's still a lot of things that are going to happen here. All that said though, the big thing that is going to happen, I do think is that we are going to see a shift in minority voters. I just think that black and Latino voters at the end we are going to see some shift.
HUNT: Very, very interesting.
All right. I will leave you with this.
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HUNT: It's that time again. People rediscovering Bonnie Tyler's 1983 hit "Total Eclipse of the Heart." The song now has more than 1 billion views on YouTube. During the last solar eclipse seven years ago, sales of the song jumped 500 percent. And our own John Berman was able to talk to Tyler about her classic song back in 2017.
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JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Can you give us your favorite verse from the song?
BONNIE TYLER, SINGER: (SINGING).
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HUNT: This is why Berman is just the absolute best. The longest duration of today's eclipse totality is four and a half minutes which happens to be the exact duration of Bonnie Tyler's song. Could this be a coincidence?
KILDEE: I don't think so.
NAVARRO: No.
BALL: So cosmic.
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NAVARRO: It's so I mean cosmically aligned. This is where we are. This is --
HUNT: I mean come on what are we doing for the eclipse day? You watching it?
BALL: Absolutely. I'll be at work but I'll try and go outside and --
KILDEE: I think I'm going to the bridge over the Anacostia River because I know I'll be able to see something there.
HUNT: Cool. I love it.
GORMAN: I'll be on the roof of a building somewhere.
HUNT: Somewhere?
GORMAN: Yeah, yeah.
HUNT: How about you?
NAVARRO: -- and finishing this doughnut.
HUNT: Yeah. I have to say, I think this doughnut, like, has the amount of sugar that I normally consume in like a whole week in one, like, single food item.
GORMAN: It's a little pot time for me today.
HUNT: But I am excited about eating the Oreo on top.
All right, thanks of guys. I appreciate it. Thanks to all of you for joining us. I'm Kasie Hunt. You better stick around because John Berman and CNN News Central are up right now.
