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House Vote Today On Modified FISA Reauthorization Bill; Pulitzer Prize Winner Quits Ford Foundation Over Group's Refusal To Honor Liz Cheney; Trump And Johnson To Make Joint Appearance At Mar-A- Lago. Aired 5:30-6a ET

Aired April 12, 2024 - 05:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[05:30:00]

KASIE HUNT, CNN ANCHOR: A live look at Capitol Hill on this Friday morning here in Washington. Good morning to you. Thank you for being up with us. I'm Kasie Hunt.

Republican holdouts in the House appear to be warming up to newly modified legislation that reauthorizes the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act -- it's known as FISA. We're expecting a vote today on the new version of the bill.

Essentially, it would reauthorize this tool for two years instead of five years. Now, what does this mean? That if Donald Trump wins the presidential election, the reauthorization will expire during his time in office and allow him to overhaul the FISA laws.

The House Speaker Mike Johnson heads to Mar-a-Lago today to meet with the former president, and sources close to Johnson are hoping that Trump will provide cover as far-right members of his conference continue to threaten his job.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE (R-GA): Mike Johnson doesn't have the trust of the conference and that's become very clear. Most of the members I've talked to support the letter that I sent and they completely agree with it. It's a very serious letter and the motion to vacate is real.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: All right, joining me now to discuss, Juliegrace Brufke, Capitol Hill reporter for Axios. And Marcus Childress, former January 6 investigative counsel. Good morning to both of you. Thank you so much for being here.

Juliegrace, let me talk to you about the politics before we talk about some of the legal implications here with Marcus. For Johnson, this is an incredibly consequential day for him between what we're expecting to see on FISA and what we're expecting to see with him and Donald Trump down in Mar-a-Lago.

What are the things that you have your eye on as he tries to navigate a very complex path to keeping his job? I mean, it's not complex -- maybe it's very straightforward -- but it's tough.

JULIEGRACE BRUFKE, CAPITOL HILL REPORTER, AXIOS: Right, and he's really got to thread a needle right now and he's kind of come under fire for conservatives following appropriations packages. They weren't thrilled earlier this week with how FISA panned out. I mean, I think leadership is kind of off guard by 19 people voting down that rule, not just a handful. I think they initially thought it was going to pass on Wednesday but didn't think they'd have to finesse it this much.

Now, the two-year sunset -- that's big. Conservatives are saying they'll get another bite of the apple if Trump wins and that was kind of enough to get most of them over the finish line. They're feeling good about the whip count last night. So we'll see at 8:30 when they have this vote whether they kind of managed to get everyone on board there. There were still a couple of people with reservations.

But, I mean, we've heard Marjorie Taylor Greene say that FISA is a huge thing for her. And Ukraine funding is still being discussed. So --

HUNT: Right.

BRUFKE: I mean, he's having difficulties.

With that being said, Dems have said that if this motion to vacate comes to the floor that some of them are willing to bail him out there.

HUNT: So, Juliegrace, what do you think that Mike Johnson needs Trump to do for him today to strengthen his hand?

BRUFKE: Well, I think he needs -- he needs Trump to kind of show that he has his back on things. Trump didn't come out and bail Kevin McCarthy out. He didn't put out any type of post on social media defending him when the last motion to vacate happened.

And, I mean, I've talked to people close to President Trump that feel another motion to vacate could hurt him in November. So that world is kind of trying to -- trying to push back on that a little bit so his odds are better in November.

So I think kind of just -- kind of pushing out that they've got a strong relationship is huge for Johnson.

HUNT: They're -- just be -- the fact that they're doing it all says a lot.

So, Marcus, the FISA renewal has become a real hot button. We saw this in the beginning of the Trump administration when they were on track to renew it and it was taken down by a Trump tweet --

MARCUS CHILDRESS, FORMER JANUARY 6 INVESTIGATIVE COUNSEL: Right.

HUNT: -- back when House -- Paul Ryan was the Speaker of the House. Johnson was -- spoke to reporters on Capitol Hill the day before

yesterday and tried to explain why he suddenly has changed his mind about FISA because he used to be very much opposed to it. I know we were looking to see if we could find the sound but basically, the answer to the question was well, I became speaker -- I became a member of what's known as the Gang of Eight, which gets high-level intelligence briefings.

CHILDRESS: Right.

HUNT: Suddenly, I was told what this program actually does for the country and, hmm, it changed my mind.

What does the program do for the country? And why -- and why has the way that the law is written and the way that the law exists around spying on Americans -- why is it the issue that it is with conservatives?

CHILDRESS: Well, it's a critical tool for defending the homeland. I think if you talk to intelligence officials they would say look, if you look at section 702, which is the key section within FISA that allows intelligence officials to collect communications of foreigners -- so, non-U.S. citizens. Their text messages, their phone calls, and things of that nature. But in the global world that we live in right now that also sweeps in Americans' communications as well.

But --

HUNT: When they're talking to --

CHILDRESS: When they're talking to someone who is overseas, right?

But if you talk to the FBI, they can search these communications and it sweeps up Americans' data as well.

Look, Mr. Wray went on Capitol Hill and talked about how there's already been some reforms put in place --

HUNT: The FBI director.

CHILDRESS: -- that -- the FBI director -- about not even collecting these Americans' data, such as not opting in to search 702 data and other things of that nature.

But this is a pretty critical tool for looking at communications of folks outside the U.S. who might be trying to plot terror plots against folks here on the homeland.

HUNT: Yeah. It's very telling that for someone like Johnson who is so conservative and who was buying the party line that this was a problem before --

[05:35:05]

CHILDRESS: Right.

HUNT: -- he suddenly learned what it could do in a more detailed way --

CHILDRESS: Correct.

HUNT: -- and he switched his position.

Marcus, let's talk for a minute about what is kind of the looming major story of next week, which is the trial that is set to begin for Donald Trump -- the criminal trial. The first time an American -- former American president will go on criminal trial. It's going to be -- what we expect -- a week or so of jury selection.

What are you looking for here? I mean, they seem to have exhausted their options in terms of --

CHILDRESS: Right.

HUNT: -- trying to delay it because --

CHILDRESS: Right.

HUNT: -- they've done that. That's what they've been doing this week.

What's next?

CHILDRESS: We're going to trial. We're finally going to trial on Monday. I don't see any way that it gets delayed from Monday.

You can't win a trial at jury selection but you can definitely lose a trial. And I think that's why --

HUNT: That's a really interesting way to think about it.

CHILDRESS: -- it's so important, right? It's that first step in preserving the prosecution even getting -- even getting a conviction, or if you're a defense counsel, finding that jury that will actually acquit, which is very hard to do, or finding more realistically, that one juror that will make it a hung jury.

And so, what we're going to see is just a series of questions from both sides and from the court to try to determine whether this jury is actually able to be impartial, right? It's not whether you have feelings about the former president or have feelings about the case, but can you put those feelings to the side? Can you follow the court's instructions? Can you be impartial and fair?

And it's -- and you're going to ask questions to try to -- to try to get answers that show whether the juror can be fair and use strikes for cause, right? So that's really what you want to do. You want to be able to --

HUNT: OK.

CHILDRESS: -- strike a juror for cause because they're saying things like, look, I can't be fair in this trial. And jurors will really say something to that effect. And so, I think we'll probably have some funny moments throughout the week of what jurors are saying on their questionnaires or outward to the court.

But this is a very serious week or two and I wouldn't be surprised if it lasts even more than a couple of weeks. In my experience, I've done trials that might last a month depending on how significant the case is.

HUNT: Well, and then, in this case, it's very significant.

When you say you can lose it at voir dire -- I mean, is it more likely that the prosecution finds a situation where they lose or the defense?

CHILDRESS: That's an interesting question. I think it's more likely because you're a prosecutor, you're the one presenting the evidence. I think it's more on you to make sure that you're getting a jury that can be fair and follow the court's instructions. I feel like as a prosecutor, if the jury can follow the court's instructions you're probably in a good place because you've brought these charges. A grand jury has returned an indictment. So you want people just to follow the evidence, follow the court's instructions, and you probably should get a conviction.

So I'm sure the prosecutors are putting a lot into finding 12 jurors that can follow instructions. But as a defense counsel, you're looking for that one who can be independent or maybe hold out in that juror room from not maybe following the rest of the 11 and maybe being independent thinking per se.

HUNT: Interesting.

Juliegrace, briefly, what are you hearing behind the scenes from Republicans on the Hill about next week's trial?

BRUFKE: I think Republicans -- you're largely going to hear that it's a witch hunt. That -- I mean, kind of, talking points we've heard before.

HUNT: Is there any disparity between those talking points and what people say in private?

BRUFKE: Some would (INAUDIBLE). I mean, when you talk to some of the moderates who kind of feel that things will be fair for him and the narrative that he's putting out there is inaccurate. But I think on the public front they're going to hear a lot of that this is just being used against him coming in 2024, and I think that's kind of just going to continue.

And I think that President Trump will probably go out and try and raise money off of it. I think congressional Republicans will probably try --

HUNT: Yeah.

BRUFKE: -- to continue to use that to kind of raise money and argue the Democrats are kind of just conducting themselves in a way to undermine him in 2024.

HUNT: All right.

Marcus Childress, Juliegrace Brufke, thank you both very much for being here. I really appreciate it.

All right. Pulitzer Prize-winning photographer David Hume Kennerly stepping down in protest from his role on the board of the Gerald Ford Foundation. He is accusing the organization of "aiding and abetting Donald Trump."

In a resignation letter submitted earlier this week, Kennerly called out the foundation for refusing to honor former Republican Congresswoman Liz Cheney. Kennerly believes she was rejected because the group fears retribution from Trump.

Cheney, of course, has been one of Trump's most vocal Republican critics.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LIZ CHENEY, FORMER HOUSE REPRESENTATIVE: The other thing that people have to realize is what it means if a President of the United States won't enforce the rulings of our courts. And that is absolutely what he said he will do. He's gone to war with the rule of law. And a president who won't enforce the law creates a situation where things just unravel. Right now, and in this election cycle, I'll do whatever I have to do to make sure Donald Trump is not elected.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: So, Kennerly says in his resignation letter the country is fortunate to have Cheney "still out there on the front lines of freedom."

And David Hume Kennerly joins me now. David, good morning. Good evening, I should say to you. You're in

DAVID HUME KENNERLY, PULITZER PRIZE-WINNING PHOTO JOURNALIST: Hi.

HUNT: -- Los Angeles. And I think you are at the end of your day.

KENNERLY: I'm not sure, yeah.

[05:40:00]

HUNT: I really appreciate you taking the time --

KENNERLY: Yeah.

HUNT: -- to be here and to help us understand what went on here.

Because I have to say -- and we can start big-picture with this and we can -- we can dig into your career and what this means from that perspective. But they basically -- it sounds like they did this because they are afraid of retribution from a possible future President Trump. And honestly, that reasoning was what struck me as part of the most chilling -- one of the most chilling things about what we saw here.

KENNERLY: Right. I think that's true. And it's not like I'm trying to napalm the Ford Foundation. It's -- this is a microcosm, really, of what's going on around the country. And people are fearful. They're hunkering down. They're not stepping up.

And when you look at Liz, as an example -- and you have to understand I've known Liz since she was a little kid and she's always had a lot of resolve, and it's very clear right now.

But that's the big problem where people are worried about something that hasn't even happened yet and may never happen, hopefully.

But what -- I just keep my eye on what Liz is doing and I wanted to see the organization in the name of Gerald R. Ford honor her. This is the kind of thing that he would have stood up for. And the whole idea of the Gerald Ford Medal for Public Service is about strength and character and integrity, and she's like the poster child for this award. I mean, I don't see where anyone else should have gotten it. And so, we had a big falling out over this whole thing.

HUNT: And they wrote that the executive committee concluded that giving the medal to her in the 2024 election cycle might be construed as a political statement and expose the foundation to the legal risk of losing its nonprofit status with the IRS. They were concerned about their fiduciary duty.

This also seems to expose how other organizations -- you know, for- profit companies as well may be thinking about the potential ramifications of another Trump presidency.

I mean, David, how do you see that, especially considering you were Ford's photographer? And we can show our viewers what it was like for you to be behind the scenes working with him and some of the beautiful photographs you took not just of Ford but of many presidents into the future as you have documented so much of our collective history of the course of the last 40 years.

For Ford, and what was going on with Nixon as well, and the way he played a role in trying to unite the country and also to keep its democracy intact, there does seem to be some particular symbolism here.

KENNERLY: Well, I -- going back to the award and the nonprofit status, which they're kind of leaning on that one. But they should have thought about 2004 where the then-vice presidential candidate Dick Cheney, father of Liz, was given that award by the foundation. And he was -- they were going into a second term but he was a candidate for VP with George W. Bush.

And so, it's -- Liz never declared her candidacy, number one. And they just kind of pulled this one out of -- I know this was what was bugging them and that's -- this is the crutch they're leaning on. But this is why I just -- I quit. And I'm not a quitter.

And President Ford would have been ashamed of this, quite frankly. I mean, I can't imagine a more different human being than Gerald Ford than Donald Trump.

And as you mentioned --

HUNT: Yeah.

KENNERLY: -- I've photographed every president since LBJ, so I know what they look like and how they act, and how they do things.

HUNT: When you say it's a crutch, I mean, what's really going on?

KENNERLY: They're afraid of Donald Trump. That's what's going on. That's what Liz is saying. It's a fact.

Now, I've been really hardened, actually, and this -- I got no pleasure out of doing this. I mean, I'm not an in front of the -- I'm a behind-the-camera person, not an out-front person. And they're afraid -- people --

[05:45:00]

But the reaction I've gotten to this -- which I'm kind of stunned, really -- has been like 99 percent positive. It's hard to imagine. I mean, no one agrees on anything anymore. I've just had a real outpouring of support.

But really, it's for the country and it's for Liz, and she's the leader of the pack and I admire her. I mean, she's got real courage.

HUNT: Well, David -- I mean, you -- it's -- I've seen you out with Liz Cheney as you've documented parts of her life. And I obviously learned so much from you watching you cover presidential campaigns early on in my career. And it really did resonate -- it stuck out to me when I saw that you had made the decision to do this considering how much you've seen so far.

You know, for our viewers who -- as you -- as you say, you are usually behind the camera. I'm not sure our viewers probably realize how many of your images they actually know and are familiar with. And so, I'm very grateful to have you here today and grateful for the role that you've played for all of us in documenting history. So, thank you for taking some time this morning.

KENNERLY: Thank you very much.

HUNT: All right, David Hume Kennerly. Thank you.

Coming up next here, the House Speaker Mike Johnson headed to Mar-a- Lago hoping for cover from the former president.

Plus, Tiger Woods in the hunt at the rain-delayed Masters.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[05:50:53]

HUNT: Welcome back. Today, former President Trump and House Speaker Mike Johnson hold a joint news conference at Mar-a-Lago. Both men expected to discuss state proposals and lawsuits that they claim will allow non-citizens to vote. Sources say the event was Johnson's idea and that he's hoping it will provide him with some political cover while he gets to feel out the former potential president on a possible -- excuse me, the former president on a possible Ukraine aid package.

Joining me now is Isaac Arnsdorf. He's national political reporter at The Washington Post, and he's the author of a new book, "Finish What We Started: The MAGA Movement's Ground War to End Democracy." Isaac, good morning. It's wonderful to have you here.

So let's start with what we're going to see play out here. There's a big difference between Donald Trump when he came in 2016 and a potential Donald Trump additional presidency coming in in 2024, and that's that Mike Johnson came of age politically with Donald Trump. That's very different from the speaker that he had in Paul Ryan when he came to Washington in 2017.

What difference is that going to make in terms of how Trump tries to pull the levers of power if he's reelected?

ISAAC ARNSDORF, NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER, THE WASHINGTON POST, AUTHOR, "FINISH WHAT WE STARTED: THE MAGA MOVEMENT'S GROUND WAR TO END DEMOCRACY": It's also very different from Kevin McCarthy as the speaker. You know, Mike Johnson being one of the leaders in Congress in trying to help Trump overturn the results of the 2020 election. And there's a neat scene in the book where I'm with Steve Bannon on the day that does McCarthy in while he's coordinating with Matt Gaetz and others inside the Capitol on trying to make that happen.

And so, this is a -- what we're seeing with Johnson, McConnell on his way out, and the recent replacement of Ronna McDaniel is the conclusion of Trump supporters takeover of the Republican Party establishment -- the Republican Party apparatus filtering its way up to the top.

HUNT: Really interesting.

What -- I know you went -- as you were reporting in the book were with some of these MAGA supporters when one of the indictments came down for former President Trump. We are, of course, seeing his first trial set to start on Monday.

Ron DeSantis was out there saying if he hadn't been indicted I might have won.

What did you learn?

ARNSDORF: Yeah, I happened to be. It was a cigar party on the sidelines of the Georgia GOP convention. It happened --

HUNT: As one does.

ARNSDORF: It happened to be -- well, it helps keep the mosquitoes away.

HUNT: Yeah.

ARNSDORF: But it happened to be the night that one of the indictments came down and I was, in some cases, breaking the news to the supporters. And it helped me learn about why they -- why they identify so strongly with that and how they relate to it. The idea that if that could happen to him with all of his power and resources the -- what chance the rest of them have. And the alienation -- the struggling to recognize the America that they thought that they knew.

HUNT: When you talk about the MAGA movement -- and you mentioned Steve Bannon and how you've done a bunch of reporting with him -- how do they think about third-party candidates in their attempts to do what they're -- finish what they started, as you say?

ARNSDORF: Yeah. So, part of the story of the book is if you think back to 2021, Trump was playing with this idea of a third party as an implicit threat to Republicans who might have convicted him. And part of what Bannon was doing here with encouraging Trump supporters to go into the Republican Party itself was to get them away from a third party, which would have been counterproductive from his perspective.

Now that the -- that the takeover of the Republican Party is complete, the value of a third party as a spoiler is definitely something that you can see the Trump campaign and Trump himself playing with.

When he attacks RFK for being too left-wing, is he attacking him or is he kind of promoting him --

HUNT: Right.

ARNSDORF: -- for people who maybe aren't enthusiastic about Biden?

HUNT: Very interesting.

All right, Isaac Arnsdorf. The book is "Finish What We Started: The MAGA Movement's Ground War to End Democracy." Isaac, you're going to stick around for the rest of the show with us. Thank you very much.

All right, time now for sports. The world's best golfers will be back on the course in about two hours to finish up the first round of the Masters.

Andy Scholes has more from Augusta, Georgia in this morning's Bleacher Report. Andy, good morning.

ANDY SCHOLES, CNN SPORTS ANCHOR: Yeah, good morning, Kasie.

[05:55:00]

So we were delayed here 2 1/2 hours yesterday due to those storms but it turned out to be a really nice day other than the wind. It was just a wild scene out there on the course yesterday. The gusts getting up to 40 miles per hour. But that wind didn't seem to bother Bryson DeChambeau too much. The

former U.S. Open champ birdied his first three holes and ended up with eight birdies on the day. He's your leader right now at seven under. This was Bryson's best Masters round of his career.

And after a few down years, which included him missing the cut -- last two cuts here in Augusta, the now LIV Golfer says he's found a new approach to the game -- just keeping it simple.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRYSON DECHAMBEAU, MAKING 8TH START AT MASTERS: It's been a journey, to say the least -- one that I have thoroughly enjoyed but also it's taken a big toll on me in numerous situations. I'm just doing the same thing every single day in and day out. I'm not trying something new to -- I'm trying to figure something out. And that's what I feel like has just accumulated into playing some really good golf.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHOLES: All right. So, Tiger Woods is one under through 13 before play was halted in his first round due to darkness. I watched Tiger out there on the course yesterday and he looks pretty good. But the big challenge is going to be today where he's going to have to finish his first round and play his whole second round -- 23 holes total. That's a lot of walking here in Augusta. And Tiger is trying to set a record today and make his 24th-straight cut at the Masters.

Now, Scottie Scheffler, a huge favorite coming into this tournament. He played like in round one shooting a six-under 66. Scheffler -- he won his first matches two years ago and has never finished outside the top 20 in four appearances here. It seems like nothing is going to stop him except for maybe his wife going into labor. The couple is expecting their first child at the end of the month.

Kasie, Scheffler said he's not too concerned about it. He would leave if he has to -- if his wife goes into labor. What a story that would be if Scheffler has the lead on Sunday and his wife goes into labor and he's got to leave. But he says she's not showing any signs right now so he's not too concerned.

HUNT: Well, choosing between seeing your baby being born and that green jacket, I don't -- I don't envy him in that choice. But it's obvious what --

SCHOLES: It's a tough call.

HUNT: -- the answer is. It's obvious what the answer is.

Andy, thank you very much. I really appreciate it.

SCHOLES: All right.

HUNT: All right. Coming up next, how New York City is preparing for the start of Donald Trump's hush money trial.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)