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Trump On Trial; America's Choice 2024; Israel-Hamas War; Truth Social Tumbles. Aired 6:30-7a ET

Aired April 17, 2024 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[06:32:11]

CNN ANCHOR: All right. We did see some significant progress during day two of jury selection of Donald Trump's New York hush money trial. So far, four men and three women have been selected to serve on the 12 person jury. Six alternates will also be picked. The trial is adjourned until Thursday morning with a tight window to finish jury selection. Judge Juan Merchan is hoping to wrap up the process by the end of the week.

My panel is back and CNN political analyst David Sanger joins the conversation. And we know some vague details about the seven jurors selected yesterday. You know, what do you guys think? Feel free to anybody wants to chime in, what we see so far from the jury selection process.

And, I mean, David, you've covered so many presidents over the years. It's still kind of amazing to see a former president of United States going into a criminal courthouse, no matter how you slice it for jury selection.

DAVID SANGER, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, I think the most interesting thing in that dynamic, to me, as somebody that just covered Trump during the time that he was president, as you did --

ACOSTA: Yes.

SANGER: -- Jim, is that whenever he's in a room, he wants to be in command of everything that's going on in the place. And here, all of a sudden, he has to sit for hours on end, while this judge, about whom he's made his views pretty clear, is basically running the show and issuing the instructions. And I think in some ways that may be harder for him than the charges, than the jury selection.

ACOSTA: Yes.

SANGER: It can explain maybe why he dozed off because he doesn't want to be in a situation that he isn't commanding at any moment.

ACOSTA: Yes. This is not the cabinet room.

SANGER: No.

ACOSTA: This is not the West Wing of the White House. And, David, while we're on the subject a little bit, you travel all over the world. You got this great book coming out, "New Cold Wars: Russia, China and America Struggle to Defend the West." What is the rest of the world saying right now about Donald Trump on trial?

SANGER: You know, the rest of the world is more focused on this than I thought they would be. I've been, you know, Jim, I was living for the first three months of the year in Berlin working out of our Berlin Bureau. And I commute to work on the subways. And they're a little electronic, you know, news flashes here. And it was Trump, Trump, Trump. And what was that about?

What it is about is not that they're interested in the details of the trial and all that, it's the fear that if he does come back in, we are back in a situation where the allies are going to wonder where the United States is. And everybody in Europe and in Asia is sort of developing a plan B, which is how do you defend yourself, how do you deal with Russia, how do you deal with China if you were back in period where the United States seems to have come back to its own chores.

[06:35:04]

ACOSTA: Well, and last night with Trump, I mean, we've talked about this so many times, the courtroom becomes the campaign trail, the campaign trail becomes the courtroom. And last night, he went to an impromptu campaign event, you can call it that at a bodega in Harlem. Let's listen to what he had to say about the potential jurors that might be selected here. Let's listen to that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What kind of juror in your mind is an ideal juror in this trial?

DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER US PRESIDENT AND PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Anybody that's fair.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you believe that the jury, the jurors, seated today can be fair?

TRUMP I'll let you know after -- after the trial. Depending on what they do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: I'll let you know how the jurors are after the outcome.

LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Yes, after -- yes, depending on what they do. I mean, what was really interesting was in the times they had actually the list of questions that they were asked, and they were fascinating. They were really trying to get at what the political leanings of these people are. And they had questions like what podcasts do you listen to, what commercial radio stations do you listen to --

LEAH WRIGHT RIGUEUR, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST AND HISTORIAN: What news he listen to.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: You know, what -- do you watch CNN, do you read the New York Times. They're really trying to pigeonhole these people to see what their leanings are, and to try and figure out where their partisanship may be. And so, I really do think that it's a testament to the good people of New York that they've managed to find seven jurors already, so speedily that are willing to sit in this trial.

But I'll also say, their lives are going to be changed. I mean, let's think about these jurors for a second and what they're going to be facing. Because this is an unprecedented trial, and we know how this is going to really, I think, animate a lot of the public.

WRIGHT RIGUEUR: Yes.

ACOSTA: Yes. And it's also kind of a civics lesson for everybody out there who might not have faith in the process. Here we are, we're watching jury selection process. It can be tedious.

WRIGHT RIGUEUR: It can be very tedious. I also thought it was interesting. So one, kudos to the fact that they were able to find these seven jurors, because I was also in the camp that was like, there's no way. There's absolutely no way. And they somehow managed to find, not only people who had minimal knowledge of the trials and things like that, they also found one juror who had almost no knowledge whatsoever of any of Donald Trump's, like criminal indictments or any of the criminal trials that he was facing. And I think that's remarkable.

It's also remarkable when you look at the breakdown of who these jurors are, what they, you know, what they believe, what they read. I was surprised by how many of them said they got their news from TikTok or from Facebook --

ACOSTA: Wow.

WRIGHT RIGUEUR: -- which is actually a huge thing. That's not just important for the kind of the circus of the politics of this trial but also, the Trump campaign is going to be paying attention to that, right? The Biden campaign is going to be paying attention to that.

So this is the -- even though we're not seeing the kind of I think circus that we saw in some of the other political or indictments that we've seen with Donald Trump before, this is something that the entire country can watch, and learn something as they go along. But also that appears to be like, the jurors are going to learn something along the way too.

MATT GORMAN, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: You know, it's interesting too, I think it's a good reminder that not all, not everyone in the country is glued to cable news 24/7. They can't keep straight all the details of every trial.

WRIGHT RIGUEUR: Come on. It's not true. It's not true.

GORMAN: It's a good reminder -- I know, I know. GARCIA-NAVARRO: He doesn't watch CNN.

GORMAN: I was thinking (inaudible). But no, it's true. And, you know, I taught at University of Chicago earlier this year, and it's the same point. It's remarkable how many younger folks, or younger generation, get their news exactly from TikTok. And, you know, and other news sources. It's a good reminder of that. And I think it's kind of refreshing. It's like, you know what, people aren't as --

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Is it refreshing or is it terrifying?

SANGER: It's also a little humbling.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Yes.

SANGER: We're all super --

ACOSTA: David's newspaper right here.

SANGER: Yes.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: That's fine.

GORMAN: Jim's got what we call the dead free edition there, the --

ACOSTA: It's on the New York Post this morning, which slightly different.

SANGER: Slightly different. But, you know, I think that the bigger point out here is, we're all in the media trying to meet readers, you know, and listeners where they are. Lulu's got this fabulous podcast, and that's an audience that 10 years ago we weren't really thinking about that much.

Now, we're thinking to ourselves, OK. Good news is they're getting some news. Bad news is it's filtering through TikTok, and that's why Congress is concerned on both parties side that is owned by Bytedance, a fully Chinese company. And it does make you begin to wonder over time, what is going to be the filtration effect of the fact that we are running the news through these new mediums where you're not getting the balance that you might see in any of these.

ACOSTA: And Donald Trump, at one point, you and I are old enough to remember this, wanted to get rid of TikTok. And now, I mean, I think what they've seen inside his team of advisors and so on, is that there are a lot of young people, a lot of people looking at TikTok, maybe they don't want to get rid of this.

SANGER: It's remarkable because what Biden is doing is basically following a line that, as you remember in the last two years of the Trump administration --

ACOSTA: Yes.

SANGER: -- he was the one trying to force the sale --

ACOSTA: That's right.

SANGER: -- of TikTok to an American firm. And now he's declared this a terrible idea and it will empower Facebook. I don't remember him saying that at the time.

[06:40:07]

GARCIA-NAVARRO: I think -- I mean the thing we know about Donald Trump is that he is always interested in what benefits him.

SANGER: The transaction --

GARCIA-NAVARRO: At that very moment. And so he's counting on that a lot of us aren't old enough to remember.

GORMAN: There's going to be a point. Look, I think they need to ban TikTok for all the reasons you said, David, but I think there's going to come a point in the not too distant future that if they can't get it banned, Republicans will have to get on board with it. Because there's too many young voters there and there's too many voters, as we said before, getting their news there. We can't see the entire audience of that. But that being said, first, second, third --

ACOSTA: Do you think they're really going to ban TikTok? I mean, honestly.

GORMAN: Well, it's up to the Bytedance, right? If they want to not sell to American company, that's -- the balls in their court on that.

SANGER: I actually don't think they're going to ban TikTok. I mean, first of all, in the middle of it (CROSSTALK) you're going to tell -- yes. As I'm abut to say, you tell 170 million Americans we're going to rip this out of your phone. I don't think that's going to happen.

But I do think, going to your point that what could well happen, is that the United States may say, we need to have a way that we can see how the algorithm is put together that selects that news. And that means having it in a place, probably in the United States, where the source code is visible --

WRIGHT RIGUEUR: Now do that for Youtube, now do that for Apple, now do that for all the American companies as well. I mean, the problem here is that they have not done regulation for any of these companies. And, you know --

SANGER: They can't just do it.

WRIGHT RIGUEUR: They can't just do it.

ACOSTA: If only you can get teenagers off of TikTok, you would make every parent in America happy.

SANGER: Well, that's the question. Is this a parenting problem or a national security problem?

WRIGHT RIGUEUR: It's (inaudible). ACOSTA: All right, guys, great discussion. Coming up, President Biden's new messaging on the economy, that's ahead. Plus, anti- Semitism on campus. Columbia University officials about to get grilled by Congress on this, that's coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:45:29]

ACOSTA: Forty-four minutes past the hour, here's your morning round up. Arizona Republicans weighing their options to fight an abortion rights ballot initiative in November. The state legislature meets today just days after the Arizona Supreme Court banned nearly all abortions.

Leaders of Columbia University are set to be grilled at a congressional hearing on campus anti-Semitism this morning. In a Wall Street Journal op-ed, previewing her testimony, the president of Columbia writes, it is not the responsibility of Jewish people to eradicate anti-Semitism. That is a job for all of us.

Sad news out of Washington, former senator, two term Democratic senator and governor -- excuse me, Bob Graham, has died. Bob Graham of Florida spent nearly four decades in public service representing Florida and led the Congressional investigation into the September 11 attacks. He was 87 years old.

And Michigan Democrats regaining control of the state house with wins in two Detroit area special elections. That breaks a 54-54 tie in the Chamber and keeps Democrats in control of the trifecta, the Michigan governorship, the Senate and the House.

With Donald Trump in court, President Biden is out on the campaign trail returning to his hometown of Scranton, Pennsylvania yesterday to pitch his tax plan.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENT OF UNITED STATES: When I look at the economy, I don't see through the eyes of Mar-a-Lago. I see through the eyes of Scranton. He looks at the economy for Mar-a-Lago where he and his rich friends embrace the failed trickle-down policies that have failed working families for more than 40 years. Scranton values and Mar-a- Lago values --

My plan calls for a minimum federal income tax of 25 percent, just 25 percent on billionaires. Well below the top rate but fair, they can afford it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Biden's day in Pennsylvania, the first of three he plans to spend in the crucial battleground state comes as the president tries to move the needle with the 63% of voters who have soured on his handling of the economy. Joining me now is former foreign policy adviser to George W. Bush, Dan Senor. He is the author of the "Genius of Israel" and "Start-Up Nation." He is also the host of the "Economy Back" podcast. Hey, Dan, great to see you again. It's been a long time. Nice to talk to you.

DAN SENOR, FORMER FOREIGN POLICY ADVISOR TO GEORGE W. BUSH: Hey, Jim. Good to be with you.

ACOSTA: Yes, good to be with you. Just to -- since we're talking about the President out there in Scranton and Pennsylvania, talking about his economic message. He's talking about Donald Trump as an elitist. I think yesterday he was talking about Mar-a-Lago values versus Scranton values. What do you think of that message?

SENOR: I think it is -- he's trying to make this a referendum on Donald Trump, and I just think it's a challenge. Given the obstacle -- he's obstacles he faces on the economy, given the obstacles he faces on foreign policy, I think some of the things he's done, he's done right on foreign policy, President Biden. But I think right now he's making a bunch of decisions that are both problematic for him politically, and more importantly, problematic from a policy matter.

And so, I just think the focus of the electorate right now is not on Donald Trump and trying to introduce Donald Trump into the frame. People are paying attention to Donald Trump. But if you look at all the polling, it is clearly a referendum on Biden, which is why he is facing this seemingly -- seeming ceiling that he can't break through. I mean, his pauses have nudged up a little bit, but the electorate is still focused on this sort of being a report card election on President Biden.

ACOSTA: Well, and he is attempting to do something on this issue of the economy. Today he's going to be in Pittsburgh, he's going to call for a tripling of tariffs on Chinese steel, a bit of a protectionist move there, obviously, and perhaps trying to make some inroads with Trump voters, maybe folks who might have once called themselves Democrats moved over into the Trump column, in part, because of protectionist policies that Donald Trump was pursuing. What do you think about that?

SENOR: In that sense, I think it's wise. He's effectively, and I don't agree with all of these policies but he's effectively maintained many of the Trump policies on China and trade. And as you say, he's ratcheting some of them up. There's a swath of voters called them a few million, five million Independent voters spread across a bunch of very important tight battleground states that voted for President Obama in 2012, voted for President Trump in 2016, and then went back and voted For President Biden in 2020. These are voters that are perfectly comfortable bouncing back and forth. And I think President Biden is trying to make a play for those voters.

[06:50:08]

Ironically, doing so by, as you say, continuing to some degree or at least continuing in spirit, if not in policy, the policies of President Trump. ACOSTA: Yes. I mean, there's blue all states, I mean, that is the industrial backbone of the country. And those voters are really up for grabs this summer.

And, Dan, I do want to talk to you about Israel and Hamas. What do you make of how the President handled the response to the Iranian attack on Israel over the weekend? You know, there seem to be a message being sent to Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, if you do another offense attack, the United States might not be with you in an offensive way. Sort of an attempt to sort of say, hang on a second, don't go overboard here. What's your sense of it?

SENOR: Yes. His line was take the win.

ACOSTA: Yes, take the wind.

SENOR: This weekend is win -- take the win, make that be the narrative, right? Look, let me say a couple of things. One, I think what was accomplished this weekend was, in a sense, American engagement in the world at its best. You had a multilateral, multinational defense, that included, obviously led by the United States, and included Saudi Arabia, Jordan, France, the UK and, of course, Israel.

And the scale of the Iranian attack, I think, is understated. We have a lot of pundits and experts saying, oh, you know, it was a symbolic attack, it was performative, it was designed to send a message to Israel without really doing damage to Israel.

I can tell you, Jim, from the Israeli perspective, particularly the decision makers in the War Cabinet, that is not how they see it. They are -- they believe their defense was effective, and they also had a little bit of luck, 99 plus percent performance in terms of heading off, 99% of what was sent, the cruise missiles, the Scuds, the unmanned drones.

But if any of those had gotten through, I mean, you look at those ballistic missiles and cruise missiles, if any of those had gotten through, you would have had thousands of casualties. And so from the Israeli perspective, after October 7th, they can no longer just "take the win, return to the status quo."

Look, here's the reality, Israel is going to have to go back into Syria. They have to conduct further operations, like the one they did on April 1st that provoked this Iranian response. And the Israeli Defense Minister saying, if we cannot establish the new normal is every time we go into Syria, Iran gets to drop what they just dropped on us last weekend. So we have to respond.

And David Cameron, the British Foreign secretary, was in Israel just this morning their time. And he came away from his meetings, thinking Israel is definitely going to respond. So I think that they won't -- they'll try to do it in a way that doesn't really escalate. Obviously, these things can spiral out of control.

ACOSTA: Yes. SENOR: But I think there's no way that Israel doesn't respond.

ACOSTA: Well, and that was the question I was going to ask you about, Dan. Isn't this really about how Israel response? Because, I mean, what we saw over the weekend, I mean, there was a real fraying of international support for Israel when you saw that devastation, mounting in Gaza, the human suffering mounting in Gaza.

And then when this Iranian attack happened over the weekend, you saw coalition forming around Israel to sort of make this protective barrier that avoid a lot of the casualties that you're talking about. Does Israel run the risk of jeopardizing that if they go too far?

SENOR: Yes. So a friend of mine recently said, you know, the Middle East has many things in abundance, not the least of which is oil. But the one thing it lacks in the Middle East, for policymakers, are good options. And you are right, that if Israel does respond, it runs the risk of fraying this coalition. And if Israel doesn't respond, it runs the risk of further -- inviting further Iranian attacks.

So it's really, you know, which cause are you willing to absorb? I think that the US and the international community are coming to terms with the fact that Israel's going to respond. And so now it's a negotiation, as you said, about how to do it. And I think it can be done in a way that sends a message to Iran that they cannot do something like they just did without there being a response, and yet not doing in such a way that we're in a full on regional war.

But, look, as you know, the best of intentions, best of planning. I mean, I don't -- I honestly don't believe Israel policymakers thought that their operation on April 1st would have provoked the response they got this weekend. So it is hard to predict how these things go.

ACOSTA: And that leaves the question of what the Biden administration does next. I mean, if you were advising, I mean, I know you were advising the Romney campaign at one time as well. I mean, what would you advise a presidential campaign to say at this point on this issue?

[06:55:08]

I mean, the President has made it very clear. He is saying our support for Israel is steadfast, but there's just this concern about this, just getting so destabilize to the point that you have a very sort of out of control conflict in the Middle East that is just not good for anybody.

SENOR: I think that Biden administration has had a two prong strategy on Israel, and I don't think it's working. The two prong strategy is to privately, in a low key way, give Israel all the defense capabilities and needs -- that it needs, that Israel needs. And you've seen this even before the operation, this defensive operation over the weekend. You've seen it in the form of all the munitions and arms that the administration has been consistently supplying to the Israelis since October 7th.

But at the same time in the last few weeks, it is included a public strategy that is quite critical of Israel. This was much more the case in the -- before this weekend in the lead up to a possible operation by the IDF in Rafah and Southern Gaza. But there was this sense that they could green light a UN Security Council resolution that the Israeli strongly objected to for good reason. Public statements about red lines and about humanitarian assistance that were highly, and I personally think I'm fairly critical of Israel.

So they thought they could publicly have some distance with Israel, very critical of Netanyahu. There's the Schumer speech about Netanyahu that President Biden clearly supported. So it's not like they have this public approach to sort of mollify their political base to deal with the left of their political coalition here and say, look, we're beating up on Israel. We have some separation from Israel, while privately providing Israel everything it needs. Not the least of which was the defense capabilities of this weekend.

ACOSTA: Right, yes.

SENOR: I think it doesn't work because, a, it sends confusing signals to Israel's adversaries in the region. They think that there is distance between the US and Israel, and pressures mounting on Israel. And, b, I don't think there's anything President Biden can do to mollify those who are opposed to his policy on Israel today. If you just look at the protests in the United States over the last couple of days, you look at those people, you look what they're up to. There's nothing President Biden can do that's going to win them over.

At the same time, by seeming to try to pander to them, he runs the risk of alienating a whole bunch of other voters in the center --

ACOSTA: Yes.

SENOR: -- that he'll needed some of these close dates.

ACOSTA: All right. Dan Senor, great to talk to you as always. Thanks a lot. Appreciate it.

SENOR: Thanks. Thanks, Jim.

ACOSTA: All right. President Biden using his campaign stop and screen as we were saying, in Pennsylvania, to go after Donald Trump after the value of the former president's social media company, Truth Social, plummeted. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: You know, I have to save Trump's stock, and the Truth Social, his company, drops lower, you might do better in my tax plan of his.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Shares of Trump Media and Technology Group tumbled another 11% yesterday, down 70% from its high on March 26, the day after it went public. Our panel is back.

Lulu, I mean, this is -- what does it say about Trump's business acumen if --

GARCIA-NAVARRO: I mean, I think it's another example of the fact that he doesn't have a lot of business acumen. We've seen a lot of his companies end up in bankruptcy, or I'm thinking of the casinos, I'm thinking of his stake ventures, I'm thinking of his university. I mean, we've seen a lot of his ventures fail.

We'll see what happens here, I mean, with Truth Social. This is part of his brand, though, right? He's the businessman. This has been helped by his television appearances on "The Apprentice," his books, "Art of the Deal." This is how he likes to, you know, show himself in the world. And I think, you know, this is his newest venture and we'll see how it goes.

ACOSTA: Yes. Matt, I mean, would you advise a Republican candidate to put a company out on the stock exchange and have it publicly traded? I mean, the campaign is not exactly a billboard for Donald Trump for President to watch this stock plummet the way it has.

GORMAN: I worked for Jeb Bush and Tim Scott, look where I am. So what is my advice?

ACOSTA: Yes.

GORMAN: But no -- but what I'll say is this, I think, you know, one of the challenges I think, for folks -- and, look, I ran it, I worked for Jeb Bush. I remember during the Trump stakes attack and the Trump airlines attack, some of this stuff, it kind of becomes white noise after a decade. So the challenge is, how do you as if you're running against Trump, I know this firsthand. How do you press that case without telling people what they already know?

And I've already priced it. And I think that's the challenge with these attacks with Biden.

ACOSTA: Yes.

WRIGHT RIGUEUR: So I think we're actually being a little polite about it. One of the things that has been clear about how Donald Trump is --

ACOSTA: I've never been accused of that --

WRIGHT RIGUEUR: You know, well and accusing you of it today. But one of the things that we've seen consistently with Donald Trump over really the last eight to 10 years is that, he has used the presidency as a grift. And so Truth Social is just another grift. We know that it's tied, particularly with it going public, that it's tied to Trump receiving essentially a windfall of cash that he can't touch, can't touch it for five months. But we know that that was part of the deal that went into.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: And he needs it to pay off the E. Jean Carroll suit.

ACOSTA: The defamation.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: The defamation suit. ACOSTA: But it makes you wonder who's investing in this company and can they afford to buy all that stock, right?

WRIGHT RIGUEUR: Right.

ACOSTA: Take that up another time, guys. Great panel. Thanks for being with us. Thank you for joining us. I'm Jim Acosta. CNN News Central starts right now.