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Today: Opening Statements In Trump's Hush Money Trial; Speaker Johnson Earns Bipartisan Praise On Ukraine Aid; Rabbi Tells Jewish Students At Columbia University To Stay Home. Aired 5:30-6a ET

Aired April 22, 2024 - 05:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[05:30:34]

KASIE HUNT, CNN ANCHOR: A live look at St. Louis, Missouri. Look at that arch. It's beautiful. Good morning. Thank you for waking up with us. I'm Kasie Hunt.

We're just a few hours away from opening statements in the first-ever criminal trial of a former U.S. president. Donald Trump facing 34 felony charges in an alleged hush money scheme to conceal an affair with adult film star Stormy Daniels ahead of the 2016 election. Trump will be in the New York courtroom with the presidential election just six months away.

He has, of course, wasted no time attacking the judge in the case right after the jury was seated on Friday.

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DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This is a witch hunt by numerous judges -- Democrat judges. You take a look at it. Engoran is a whack job. This is a giant witch hunt to try and hurt a campaign that's beating the worst president in history.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: CNN has learned that the prosecution's first witness will likely be David Pecker. He is the former publisher of the National Enquirer.

Joining me now is former federal prosecutor Andrew Cherkasky. Andrew, good morning. Thank you so much for being here.

This is a real cast of characters that we are expecting to come through this courtroom. Why start with Pecker?

ANDREW CHERKASKY, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR (via Skype): Well, he is the one who essentially initiated the payments to Stormy Daniels and that is an important factor in all of this. The payment to Stormy Daniels is the initiation of what they say is Donald Trump's efforts to effectively interfere with the election by making a payment -- a hush money payment that was not reported in any sort of campaign finance books and was part of his overall scheme to interfere with that election.

Now, the prosecutors have to prove several layers of Donald Trump's specific intent and it all goes to the question of whether he was making that payment in order to -- in order to help him through the election versus what the defense is going to say, which is effectively, that he was doing it to protect his own reputation and the reputation of his businesses.

HUNT: Andrew, there's this question about whether or not -- we were just showing, kind of, the list of possible witnesses here. There's a question about whether or not Trump is going to testify in his own defense when you get to that phase of the trial.

If you're the prosecution -- first of all, do you think that that's a realistic threat that Trump is making or a realistic promise, depending on how you want to look at it? And two, what are the risks for Trump? You've prosecuted these type -- I mean, you are -- you are a former prosecutor. How are you, if you're in the shoes of the prosecutors here in this case, thinking about the possibilities and the things you need to accomplish if Donald Trump were to actually take the stand?

CHERKASKY: Well, Donald Trump has said that he is going to testify or that he intends to testify. I think it's way too early for a criminal defendant to make that decision. And I am a criminal defense attorney, at this point, so I see it from both sides.

Now, if Donald Trump chooses to testify, it's because the underlying elements of this case require the prosecution to establish beyond a reasonable doubt what was the specific intent of Donald Trump himself. And so, if he testifies, he's effectively getting up there to say that it was not his intention to cook the books, as it were, or to interfere with the election by not reporting certain payments to election officials.

The prosecutors, meanwhile, are going to have to build a case to show that Donald Trump has limited credibility. That he's lied on several occasions, depending on how you do that. And so, the prosecutors have no doubt prepared that. They've prepared a long list of specific instances of untruthfulness and that's what ultimately will be the fight here -- if he testifies, can he be believed?

HUNT: So what are you expecting from prosecutors today as they make their opening statements? I mean, when you approach a case like this what are the goals of the start of something like this and how will you be able to tell whether you think prosecutors have been effective?

CHERKASKY: The prosecutors need to lay out their case and they need to establish, essentially, what facts they're going to present, but also how those facts are going to play in with the various legal elements that they're required to prove throughout the course of the trial. It will likely sound much like the original indictment but will be much more colorful, I'm sure. Trial lawyers, at the end of the day, are putting on a bit of a show for the jury.

[05:35:10] We can expect the defense will similarly take their opportunity to give an opening statement and they will start to present issues with credibility of witnesses, but also really hammer on the legal elements and how difficult it is for the prosecutors to prove beyond a reasonable doubt the thoughts and the intentions in Donald Trump's mind at the time that he was engaged and effectively paying Stormy Daniels to remain silent on the issues of her alleged affair with Donald Trump.

HUNT: Quite a day ahead of us.

Andrew Cherkasky, thank you very much for being here to help us understand it. I really appreciate your time.

All right, let's go now to Capitol Hill where House Speaker Mike Johnson's long journey to yes on Ukraine aid has come to an end -- pretty remarkable.

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REP. MICHAEL MCCAUL (R-TX): I was with him the night before he made the decision. He prayed on it and the next day, he said I want to be on the right side of history.

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HUNT: The House speaker coming to a decision last week to defy his party's right flank and push through $60 billion in aid for Ukraine after months of resistance. How did he get there? Prayer, Trump, and his own son.

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REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA): To put it bluntly, I would rather send bullets to Ukraine than American boys. My son is going to begin in the Naval Academy this fall. This is a live-fire exercise for me as it is so many American families. This is not a game and it's not a joke.

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HUNT: All right, joining me now, Margaret Talev. She's the director of Syracuse University's Democracy, Journalism and Citizenship Institute and also, senior contributor for Axios. Margaret, good morning.

MARGARET TALEV, DIRECTOR, SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY'S DEMOCRACY, JOURNALISM AND CITIZENSHIP INSTITUTE, SENIOR CONTRIBUTOR, AXIOS: Good morning.

HUNT: I will just say it is actually refreshing to have people who have skin in the game making decisions. There's been fewer and fewer people in that category in Congress, so really interesting that Mike Johnson brought that up.

Let's talk about Johnson himself because this really was a crucible moment for him and he seems to have come out the other side stronger and winning praise from both Democrats and Republicans for defying the right flank.

What did you see in what happened over the weekend, and how do you see Mike Johnson?

TALEV: This has been a real leadership test for him and he kind of had to break from the gang who brought him to the party in order to make this decision. It's got to be kind of an isolating feeling, right, when the people who, to some extent, were your allies and are now calling for your head.

But it's funny. We mentioned a few things there -- his own son who is entering the Naval Academy, Donald Trump -- but it was a cast of so many others -- such a weird, wide cast. It was Zelenskyy himself. It was President Biden and the CIA director. It was folks like Mike McCaul who you saw. And it was, like, evangelical Christians -- Ukrainian Christians talking about the impact on their own lives. It was the history of John Quincy Adams.

Like, it is -- he really had a moment where he went for everyone. We've been talking about how he was -- his journey from back-bencher to House Speaker -- sort of a cheap, easy way to say it. But he went from a guy who didn't have to deal with the consequences of the decisions he would make to this moment. And it certainly seems that he reached that moment of reckoning and thought well, if this is why I lose my job, so be it. But I think he still may lose his job.

And he is -- if he seems stronger it's only because there's a coalition of Democrats led by the Democratic leader Hakeem Jeffries who are working now, it appears, to be ready to sort of prop him up and keep him in the speakership. He's still going to have a moment of reckoning. It may come after November rather than now. But he just sort of decided that --

And look, there's another factor, too.

HUNT: Yeah.

TALEV: There are a number of congressional swing districts where the Ukraine funding is actually quite popular. And there's a domestic political component to this as well. The hard-right flank may be strongly against it. The party may be split by it. But in those frontline districts that he would need if he's going to have a prayer of keeping the speakership or if the Republicans are going to have a prayer of staying in the majority, they want the Ukraine funding.

HUNT: Right. And, of course, we should be clear that they're staring at an election where most observers I talk to feel like Democrats have a very good shot of taking --

TALEV: Yes.

HUNT: -- back the House. So this is -- his job is on the line in that regard as well.

TALEV: It would be anyway.

HUNT: Right.

TALEV: And so, do you want to be responsible when a majority of the country and probably a majority of Republicans in this country want this funding and when the implications of pulling it could have widespread implications for U.S. democracy and the U.S. role in the world? He found that moment.

HUNT: Yeah.

Congressman Tony Gonzales -- Republican, but in the more moderate camp --

[05:40:00]

TALEV: Yeah.

HUNT: -- was on "STATE OF THE UNION" over the weekend on the panel. And he really came out swinging at the very top of the conversation. Here is what he said about some of his fellow Republicans in the House -- watch.

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REP. TONY GONZALES (R-TX): He will survive. Look, the House is a rough and rowdy place but Mike Johnson is going to be just fine. I served 20 years in the military. It's my absolute honor to be in Congress. But I served with some real scumbags.

Look, Matt Gaetz -- he paid minors to have sex with him at drug parties. Bob Good endorsed my opponent, a known neo-Nazi. These people used to walk around with white hoods at night. Now they're walking around with white hoods in the daytime.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: White hoods in the daytime.

TALEV: So I don't think you're going to see Speaker Mike Johnson come out in a line with those remarks directly. Those were --

HUNT: Scumbags.

TALEV: Yeah.

HUNT: That's quite a lot.

TALEV: Quite a lot.

But there is, obviously -- it's not just that there's a division inside the Republican Party, it's that there is a right flank where it's just a handful of members that really have the ability, and even more so now with the last couple of retirement announcements, to hold the rest of the party hostage. I'm not sure that the party is really ready to take that on, and I think if there is another Donald Trump term it may be even harder for the party to take that on. But that's what you're seeing right there.

And the challenge for Johnson, other than wanting to try to do something for his legacy or understand the consequence of the vote, is that if you -- if you don't put your leadership to the test on issues like this, you are probably -- you're going to lose your job anyway, right? And so, the reality is that he needs that Democratic coalition to help him govern as long as the rules allow one or two Republicans to end his leadership.

HUNT: Yeah.

So, speaking of Democrats and what they need to do, Congressman Gerry Connolly was on CNN over the weekend and he was not so charitable towards Johnson. Listen to what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. GERRY CONNOLLY (D-VA): I don't think we owe Speaker Johnson anything. His views on gay rights, gun rights, women's reproductive rights, voting rights are -- and, of course, the certification of the election of Joe Biden -- are antithetical to everything we hold dear as Democrats.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: So he says I don't think we owe Speaker Johnson anything. But, I mean, my sense in my reporting is that they -- there are Democrats who are open to -- and this would be more explicit than voting with him on policy, right? They would have to say -- if Marjorie Taylor Greene follows through on her threat, Democrats would have to actively --

TALEV: Right.

HUNT: -- support him, right? Do you think they would?

TALEV: I mean, it's a big question but it -- like, it is transactional. It's not that they are embracing Mike Johnson as a person whose policies they agree with. It's a matter of getting a bare minimum of things done right now.

And, yes, Johnson remains aligned with Donald Trump. Johnson waited all of these months -- and you heard Ukrainian President Zelenskyy over the weekend saying -- essentially saying it is -- it's been very, very long. We're very grateful to have it. But these delays make a difference. They're still waiting on things that were approved a year ago. So even the amount of time it took them to get him to this spot has cost the Ukrainians quite a bit of running room.

But I think from the Democrats' perspective, this gives them an opportunity to make coalitions when they need to on essential votes. I don't think it's a matter of them thinking hey, Mike Johnson is a great guy and a great leader. We'd like to see him be speaker forever.

HUNT: Right. TALEV: They want to beat him in November. But they want someone who they can come together and make votes on essential issues through the end of the year.

HUNT: Right. Well, otherwise, there's just nothing --

TALEV: There's nothing.

HUNT: -- here -- right.

TALEV: Why are we here?

HUNT: Right, yeah.

All right, Margaret Talev. Thank you very much. I really appreciate it.

TALEV: Thanks.

HUNT: All right. Coming up next, a crisis on the campus of Columbia University. A rabbi telling Jewish students to stay safe by staying home.

Plus, the NBA Playoffs in full swing. The Bleacher Report up next.

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[05:48:19

HUNT: Welcome back.

Columbia University facing a full-blown crisis heading into Passover. A rabbi linked to the Ivy League school is urging Jewish students to stay home as tense confrontations with pro-Palestinian protesters flare on campus. The atmosphere is so charged that Columbia officials announced that all of today's classes will be held virtually.

CNN's Shimon Prokupecz talked to several students on the New York City campus yesterday.

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BEN SOLOMAN, COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY SENIOR: Particularly, the last few days, I've felt uncomfortable around this university. I've felt like this is not a welcoming environment.

LILY ZUCKERMAN, BARNARD COLLEGE SOPHOMORE: As far as, like, walking around on campus, I will say I still feel safe. I don't want that to be, like, any kind of excuse for these people. They've made the campus hostile feeling.

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: So you're supposed to graduate in a month, is it, here? So you don't -- you don't think you'll go?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't think it's safe. (END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: Hmm.

Joining me now to discuss, Hagar Chemali, former spokesperson for the U.S. Mission to the United Nations and host of "Oh My World!" on YouTube. Hagar, thanks very much for being here.

You are a Columbia University graduate. What is your reaction to the tension on campus right now and these just really stunning and disturbing videos that have come out over the weekend?

HAGAR CHEMALI, FORMER TREASURY SPOKESPERSON FOR TERRORISM AND FINANCIAL INTELLIGENCE, FORMER SPOKESPERSON FOR U.S. MISSION TO THE U.N., HOST, "OH MY WORLD!", ADJUNCT PROFESSOR, COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY SCHOOL OF INTERNATIONAL PUBLIC AFFAIRS (via Webex by Cisco): Thanks so much, Kasie, and thanks for covering this.

I'm not only a graduate, I'm a current adjunct professor at the School of International Public Affairs at Columbia.

And I saw the protests with my very own eyes and I was horrified. I saw them over the weekend. I was there on Thursday. It was -- when the -- when the students were in camps and in tents and were arrested after that.

[05:50:00]

And I'm completely horrified for multiple reasons. But, most importantly, because while I was there, I saw -- as I was walking around -- and as one of the students said, I didn't feel -- on campus, didn't feel unsafe, but the environment is incredibly hostile. And I'll give you an example of that.

I walked by two posters. I nearly stopped breathing. Two posters of terrorists -- of known terrorists. Not difficult to Google. If you've gone to Columbia you probably know how to Google. Two terrorists -- one affiliated with the Popular Front for the Liberation Palestine, a U.S.-designated terrorist organization. And the other, a spokesperson for -- a former spokesperson for the Palestine Islamic Jihad, both of whom are dead. Both died in Israeli prisons.

And to walk by, having worked in counterterrorism in my government career, and see these posters was a punch in the gut. And I can't imagine if I were a Jewish student, an Israeli student, or really, any student how I would feel if I were to see something like that.

So the thing that horrifies me --

HUNT: Were these posters glorifying them, basically?

CHEMALI: They didn't have any comment about them. They just had the posters -- big posters on sticks with these posters sticking up. And in my view --

I mean, listen, if you had September 11 and you -- if you had September 11 and then anywhere in the world you saw a protest where somebody just had a picture of maybe not bin Laden himself, but an associate of bin Laden -- an associate of al Qaeda -- and you had that photo up there, then you would feel pretty threatened. You would -- you would see the message they're trying to convey.

And you could argue that maybe these students are lost and young. But again, they -- this is very knowable information. If they Google their names, the information about them is right there. And as a former government counterterrorism official, I know what these guys were up to.

And that's -- that kind of message -- that's not protesting against a war. That's not calling for a ceasefire. That's not even protesting for divestment, a Columbia University policy. That is sending a message to students who are Israeli, who are Jewish, or anybody, really, that this is the message --

HUNT: Yeah.

CHEMALI: This is what they stand for. They stand for what these guys are representing.

And by the way, one of those terrorist organizations, Palestine Islamic Jihad, is actively holding hostages in Gaza right now. Imagine that kind of message.

HUNT: Hagar, the White House responded to this. They said, "While every American has the right to peaceful protest, calls for violence and physical intimidation targeting Jewish students and the Jewish community are blatantly antisemitic, unconscionable, and dangerous."

There was also, of course, the rabbi associated with Columbia who urged Jewish students to go home. Do you agree with that call?

CHEMALI: Well, I agree with it but I hate it. And so -- and I say that because this is -- the protesters are not allowed -- they should not be allowed to intimidate the students and faculty so much that the school feels that it has to shut down. That is not why students have paid an enormous tuition and have dreamt of going to this school so that they can be told they have to go study from home because other students want to disrupt their lives so much.

And they are disruptive. I mean, they are loud all day, outside the main library. Outside all the classes. If students want to just go about their day and go have lunch, go study, which should be the main goal, they are -- it is a constant disruption.

But what I agree with -- if I had my child at Columbia, I also would tell them to go home. And by the way, it's not just because of the tension on campus. It's also because those protests have invited extremists outside who are -- yes, they are locked outside but Columbia's campus is not only one main campus.

HUNT: Yeah.

CHEMALI: You have this -- the majority of the students live around. And so, imagine walking by and protesters saying we are Hamas. They're calling for intifada. They don't even understand half the time what intifada means, but the other half do.

And so, that's why if I had a student walking around with a yarmulke, it would not -- I would not feel comfortable for them. I would tell them please, be careful. Please, maybe stay home.

So I think --

HUNT: Yeah.

CHEMALI: -- the decision, while I would say the same thing, I think -- I just -- I don't like the decision. I would have rather seen something that pushed back on the protesters and what their messages are.

HUNT: All right, Hagar Chemali for us this morning. Hagar, thanks very much for being here. I appreciate it.

CHEMALI: Thanks.

HUNT: All right, time now for sports. The Thunder hold off the Pelicans in the final seconds to take game one of their NBA Playoff series.

Carolyn Manno has this morning's Bleacher Report. Carolyn, good morning.

CAROLYN MANNO, CNN SPORTS CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Kasie.

Well, on paper, this looked like a mismatch. Oklahoma City coming in as the top seed in the West facing a New Orleans team without their biggest star, Zion Williamson. But that's why they don't play the games on paper because this was a back-and-forth affair from the jump with more than 40 lead changes in the game.

With less than a minute to go, Thunder rookie phenom Chet Holmgren coming up with a huge block before MVP candidate Shai Gilgeous- Alexander came up clutch with a key jumper to help decide this game. Pelicans guard CJ McCollum had a chance for the win in this game but his three-point attempt at the buzzer was just the slightest bit offline.

[05:55:10]

So, OKC escapes the scare to take game one 94-92.

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SHAI GILGEOUS-ALEXANDER, GUARD, OKLAHOMA CITY THUNDER: It's playoff basketball. Forty lead changes. Every possession matters. We didn't execute down the stretch the way we wanted to. We let up a lead but we did enough to get a W and we're one game closer to our goal.

(END VIDEO CLIP) MANNO: Game time coming early in game one of the Bucks-Pacers series. Damian Lillard scored 19 points in the first quarter to set the tone and finished with 35, all in the first half, as Milwaukee rolled to a 109-94 win.

This was his first playoff game since 2021. He spent his first 11 seasons with Portland before being traded to the Bucks. And he was asked how much he missed playing in games that really matter.

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DAMIAN LILLARD, GUARD, MILWAUKEE BUCKS: The last two years, not being in the Playoffs, it was -- you know, it sucked. I was on early vacations last year. I was -- I went to Coachella. Like, I ain't never been able to go to Coachella. Like, just playing the Playoffs every year. So just having that long summer, it was like, man, I was -- I was over that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MANNO: The Playoffs continue tonight with a doubleheader on our sister channel TNT. The Sixers will try to even their series with the Knicks at 7:30 Eastern. And then the Nuggets host LeBron and the Lakers in game two. Tipoff for that one a bit later -- set for 10:00.

And golfer Nelly Korda equaling an LPGA record over the weekend, Kasie, winning her fifth tournament in a row at the first women's Major of the year, the Chevron Championship. The world number one had the shot of the day with a chip-in for birdie on the 10th hole. But she was not done. Her tee shot on the par-3 17th hole nearly went in for the hole-in-one.

She has been playing so phenomenally. The 25-year-old finished in style, too. She had a birdie at the end of the day on the last hole to win by two strokes.

The only cool thing that she could do to cool herself down was, of course, cannonball into the pond in front of the 18th green. A lot of women have made that jump. And good for her. She has just been out of control -- five straight tournament wins. Remarkable stuff from Nelly.

HUNT: I love it -- amazing.

All right, Carolyn. Thank you very much for that. I really appreciate it.

Coming up next here, the first witness expected to take the stand in Donald Trump's criminal hush money trial. Plus, an ultimatum for House Speaker Mike Johnson from Marjorie Taylor Greene.

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