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SD Governor Noem: I will Stand by Trump if Convicted; GOP Rep. Gonzales Slams Party's Hardliners: "Some Real Scumbags"; Supreme Court to Hear Case on Ticketing Homeless; Protests at Columbia Raise Concerns about some Student's Safety. Aired 6:30-7a ET

Aired April 22, 2024 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[06:30:00]

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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. KRISTI NOEM (R-SD): My hope is that the people and the jury will do what is right and hear the evidence and see clearly that this is an unprecedented trial, but it's unprecedented and how ridiculous it is.

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: If Donald Trump is convicted in this trial; will you still support him in November?

NOEM: If my choices between Joe Biden and Donald Trump every single day of the week, yes, I will support Donald Trump. I have from the very beginning.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KASIE HUNT, CNN HOST: South Dakota Governor Kristi, Noem, one of the Republicans coming to Donald Trump's defense, as opening statements begin today and the former President's historic criminal hush money trial, but the Trump VP hopeful not going as far as some of Trumps other potential VP picks when she was asked by CNN's Dana Bash, if she would have certified the 2020 election.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: So when Mike Pence said that he talked to lawyers, and he felt that he had absolutely no ability to reject the election on January 6th, do you think he was wrong when he did that?

NOEM: And I wasn't in Mike Pence's shoes and the information that he had at that time? I don't know how he based his decisions. I think he's a nice man. I think that he's failed Donald Trump since that day, because he certainly does not recognize that we need someone in the White House who needs him out on the trail advocating for him instead of constantly criticizing and going back and ripping him apart.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: All right joining me now is CNN Anchor and Chief Political Correspondent Dana Bash Dana good morning to you. BASH: Good morning.

HUNT: So much to talk about from your show yesterday. But that really stuck out to me, I have to say what Kristi Noem had to say there in that. Obviously the vice president plays a critical role in certifying the 2024 election when we get there. This has become something of a you know, litmus test for potential Trump VPs like JD Vance, and others who will say like, no, I would not have done what Mike Pence did. She didn't go there. What's going on?

BASH: She wouldn't go there and, you know, poked me a little bit saying only the media cares about January 6.

HUNT: Trump cares about --

BASH: Of course. That's the reason I asked the question is because it has become somewhat of a litmus test of for the people who are vying to be his running mate. He wants to hear from somebody that they unabashedly oppose anything that has it comes even close to the results of 2020.

Even though there's we should say, there's absolutely no evidence to back that up. And he still obviously harbors a lot of hatred, frankly, for Mike Pence for doing what he did following the law and following the Constitution. It was a bit surprising. I didn't know how she was going to answer that question, which is why? I asked, I wonder --

HUNT: May be you wonder she's actually -- if she thinks she's not going to get pick?

BASH: Maybe. But also, remember, she was a member of the House, which I guess that doesn't really Elise Stefanik is a member of the House. And she very much said she wouldn't have certified and she came to the Biden inauguration. So she is already very much out there saying the basic which is Joe Biden is the legitimate president, which again, still almost four years later, is mind blowing that we have to actually say that that's a big deal.

HUNT: Matt Gorman, can you tell me what you think is going on with court?

MATT GORMAN, FORMER SENIOR ADVISER TO TIM SCOTT'S PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN: I think one thing doesn't discount at Noem and Pence served together in the House too. So don't discount the personal relationships with people if you know, Mike Pence, you're a lot less likely to really go after him hard for what he did. He's likable guy.

No, Tim Scott and him like each other like Ron DeSantis. He was even didn't a lot of friends in the House. But they did get along OK. So I think that's interesting to find the line at least ever served with him. Obviously, JD Vance never served with him. That's an interesting thing to point out too.

Look, I think stepping back to you know from links the comms part of this, what I could see maybe is look, don't even engage in the hypothetical. Like, if you're -- if you're not willing to go and really go forward on that. Just don't entertain it. That's what I can see me from communications tactical point of view.

HUNT: Well, and she sort of started to say that at certain points, right? Look, well, I don't want to have that on but then she kind of -- she actually didn't get you to do what you make of her answer on the Trump trial question. She said, well, this is ridiculous.

But it is a moment where we're testing to see whether Republicans across the board are going to call the justice system itself rigged and ridiculous was the word she used.

BASH: But she didn't --

HUNT: She didn't --

BASH: She said that she hopes that there is a fair jury trial. I was prepared for that conversation to go any different way and it didn't. I mean she obviously said that the prosecutor is a partisan that it is a witch hunt those kinds of things.

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But she didn't throw the entire justice system into question. Having said that, a lot of Republicans, I would say most Republicans, it's difficult to get them to come on and have a conversation about the Trump trial. She wanted to. She wanted to come on and defend and kind of go out there on why she thinks that this trial that's going on is not right.

And be there for the president in a way that other Republicans, maybe not those who are interested in the vice presidential slot, but certainly congressional Republicans, most of them want to stay as far away from it as they can.

HUNT: Yeah, I mean, I will say she is selling your book. So there's that. But it is Frank, as Dana says, noteworthy that she would want to do that? I mean, how do you see not just Nome, but kind of the entire she talked about congressional Republicans that don't want to come on and defend him here? You mentioned we saw earlier some were clearly squirming as Manu was running around asking questions on the Hill. How do they grapple with this?

FRANKLIN FOER, STAFF WRITER, THE ATLANTIC: I mean, I got to say, like, she probably did as fine a job. If I mean, did you just have to muddle through and doing it in her audition to be the deuce for Donald Trump? I got to say, you know, did she hurt herself in that interview? Probably not I mean, she wears the red baseball cap around, she's his Maga as they get in most other circumstances.

And so if she gives a little bit of a jumbled answer on these questions, at least she was on their base. I mean, basically defending him. I mean, I don't think it's going to injure hurt any sort of grievous way.

HUNT: Yeah. I mean, I again, I go back to this, the certifying of the election, and she wouldn't say that she wouldn't have done that it.

BASH: We cannot overstate how big a deal that is to Donald Trump.

HUNT: Right. I completely agree with you. So another moment on Sunday that's -- that really stood out was from Congressman Tony Gonzalez, who is dealing with a primary challenge. He's in a runoff election.

But when he was asked about the House Speaker, Mike Johnson, who did put a package of Ukraine aid a foreign aid package on the floor of the House, it passed the House with Democratic support. It's earned him praise among moderate Republicans as well, as Democrats. He has talked about history and what it means in this particular moment.

Congressman Gonzales really went after members of his own party, using very, very strong language to do it, watch.

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REP. TONY GONZALEZ (R-TX): He will survive. Look, the House is a rough and rowdy place, but Mike Johnson is going to be just fine. I served 20 years in the military. It's my absolute honor to be in Congress. But I served with some real scumbags like Matt Gaetz, he paid miners to have sex with them at drug parties, Bob Good endorsed my opponent, a known neo Nazi, these people used to walk around with white hoods at night. Now they're walking around with white hoods in the daytime.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: Mouths feed sort of stopped, and I was like --

HUNT: I mean, I sort of I was like do I need to rewind this purchase again.

BASH: Yeah, that's the face that you saw although Kate was on the panel as well. We all were going, oh, my goodness. I did not expect that. But it is so emblematic of the frustration. It's just -- it's just absolutely erupting among Republicans who actually did get elected and come to Washington to try to get things done. Even the most basic from their perspective, which is from a couple months ago, was or recently it was funding the government.

But in this case, it's defending and aiding a democracy in peril and it when it comes to Ukraine, also Israel and others. But it to me, and that the next thing that I asked him was, is this part of kind of the revolt this, I didn't use these words, but I'm using now kind of a revolt of the --?

HUNT: Yeah.

BASH: You know, just saying like, we're done. We're done with this. And we're not going to let you go take the whole House off a cliff anymore. And he effectively said, yeah, like even people who are mild mannered. I mean, he's, I wouldn't say he's mild mannered, but he doesn't talk like this are kind of done with that. I will say he also has a primary challenge.

HUNT: Right.

BASH: -- by some of your nodding your head supported by some of the friends of the motion to vacate crowd.

KATE BEDINGFIELD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yeah. No, it was -- it was a very impressive moment and it's admirable and think anytime an elected official just truly speaks their mind in an unvarnished way. We get so used to the kind of equivocating language, it's always sort of -- you know bracing to see somebody just.

And I agree with Dana absolutely that it's -- it was clearly a reflection of frustration -- the frustration that members have felt for a very long time about being led around by the hard right of the party.

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I do think -- you know there is -- I think there's a sense right now sort of a hope that you know what Mike Johnson did. And then you know you have Republican members speaking out like this, this is going to represent a sea change in the way Congressional Republicans conduct business, I think, that runs into a very real reality that Donald Trump is still the presidential nominee and is still setting the tone for their party.

And I was talking to a Republican who was saying you know essentially, like, well, well, but you know, Trump met with Johnson and then you know let kind of didn't say anything about you know preventing Ukraine money from getting done. And it's like, well, that sort of proves the point.

I mean, you know, if Trump is kind of setting the agenda, and this kind of moment of courage, political courage came -- you know following a silence from Trump when Trump could have said you know don't move forward, right. Are they still being led around by Trump? I don't know. And I do actually. I don't say that actually to diminish what Speaker Johnson did because I do think it was a -- it was politically courageous thing to do and very important.

BASH: Good classwork.

GORMAN: I think couple things don't minimize the personal animus of how people just don't like each other in the house. Like you had caravan -- called Matt Gaetz tubby earlier the week, right? So like, it can be very juvenile at some point. So I think part of that is that to be as strategic as we think.

HUNT: It's a very good point.

BASH: He is a seventh grade.

HUNT: All right next here, Jewish students at Columbia University weren't a stay home for their own safety we'll have that. Plus, the early morning break it the home of the Mayor of Los Angeles.

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[06:45:00] HUNT: 45 minutes past the hour. Here is your morning round up. The Head of Israel's military intelligence unit has resigned for not detecting Hamas preparations for the October 7th attacks. He is the first senior military official to resign over the intelligence failures that led to the deaths of over 1000 Israelis with hundreds more taken hostage.

An early morning break in at the home of Los Angeles Mayor Karen Bass police are investigating whether bass was specifically targeted. The mayor was at home when the suspect came in through a window Sunday morning. No one was hurt and the suspect was arrested.

The Supreme Court hears arguments today to decide whether cities can punish the homeless the debate will surround whether ticketing people who live on the streets is cruel and unusual punishment and violates the Eighth Amendment. A volunteering today and Donald Trump's New York civil fraud case prosecutors alleging the former president can't prove he can back his $175 million bond if his appeal fails. Also claiming that the company Trump used to secure the bond is not authorized to write bonds in New York.

Right now this today class has moved online for students at Columbia, the University President saying they'll give the Ivy League School a chance to consider next steps. Pro Palestine protests have rocked the campus. Last week more than 100 people were arrested after the school asked police to remove student protesters.

These protests have become vulgar and threatening at times the following video which was taken on Saturday night was provided to CNN by the Columbia's Shabbat organization. Rabbi associated with the school urged Jewish students to "Return home as soon as possible and remain home for the time being" CNN talk to some Jewish students on Columbia's campus.

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BEN SOLOMAN, COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY SENIOR: Particularly the last few days, I've felt uncomfortable around this university. I've felt like this is not a welcoming environment.

LILY ZUCKERMAN, BARNARD COLLEGE SOPHOMORE: As far as like walking around on campus, I will say I still feel safe. I don't want that to be like any kind of excuse for these people. They've made the campus hostile feeling.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That you're supposed to graduate in a month. Is it here? So you don't you'll go?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't think it's safe.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: Panel is back. Frank Foer a couple of things you recently wrote the cover story of "The Atlantic" saying that the golden age of American Jews is ending. You're also a Columbia University graduate and were recently on campus speaking to Jewish organization there. FOER: Yeah.

HUNT: Can you help us understand how we got to this point? What is it about the campus that has brought these protests? Why these protests are honestly different and worse than not all other protests going on in the country, but certainly, they really stick out?

FOER: A couple of things need to be said about the Columbia campus. First, it's in the middle of New York City and New York City is a place that has always had a very active left. And so you've had various moments, this combination of forces outside the campus merging with campus forces inside the campus.

Second, Columbia has this incredible legacy of protest. And so I think that when students need a moment like this, it almost feels like it is if their duty as Columbia student is to go join the protests. I know I did when I was a Columbia student.

And then third of all it has this history of Middle East studies department that's always been especially radical on the Palestinian question. And so you have students who've been taught by professors to have the sort of impassioned activism that's been on display. And then no university has figured out how to deal with these protests?

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Whether you know the protest has been very disruptive to life on campus -- good reasons for the university president to come in and to try to deal with the chaos so that the university continue to function so that there's not a hecklers veto that's happening where the loudest, most radical voices have control over the discourse.

But what we've seen is that by going in and cracking down, it's just further inflamed the situation and it's becoming about more than just a Palestine. And when what's happened is, protesters say that they're just criticizing Israel. And I believe that in a lot of their minds, that's their intent.

But there's a whole vocabulary that they have for talking about what's happening on campus that veers almost directly into anti-Semitism, where they accused Jewish donors, the accused of Jewish forces in the world, for ordering the crackdown. It's not the university president acting on her own. There's, those are --

HUNT: I mean, those -- straight up anti-Semitic tropes right there that you outline.

FOER: Yeah.

BASH: And it's an even go further, it's not almost anti-Semitism, it is anti-Semitism. And this is something that is on display right now. But the two roots of this kind of devolving from A to B go back millennia. And it -- this is something the roots of anti-Semitism that pop up in societies that, frankly, tend to be a canary in the coal mine for a society in democracy in this case that is in a lot of trouble. It is -- I like to look at this and replace Jews with any other

minority group here. And what would the entire country be doing? They would be outraged, rightly so. It is not just Palestinian rights. I got the letter that you were bordered on that the Rabbi at Columbia sent saying that Jewish students you're not safe here from a parent of a Columbia University student, I got to yesterday morning.

And this person's daughter has heard things like you're a Nazi, things like you know go kill yourself and other and even worse things. That's not protest. That's harassment. And it is on the brink of violence. And the fact that these Jewish students feel so unsafe and it is so systemic, when it comes from --

FOER: Yeah.

BASH: -- ultimately going back from classes that don't necessarily get policed. That is dangerous.

FOER: Yeah. And not just classes that don't get policed it's TAs and people aren't teaching about the Middle East, in particular, use their position to have a soapbox. But I think, especially for Orthodox students and they tend for various reasons to get written out of people's concerns.

But if you were a keeper, if you have -- if you dress in an orthodox sort of way, all of this hatred ends up just being directed onto you on a campus like Columbia. They don't know your point of view about the conflict in Israel. They're just assumptions that get made.

And they're the ones who suffered the comments, the most of the comments that Dana is talking about that they really it's primal, the way in which they just get a sale with this anti-Semitism.

HUNT: Would you feel safe? Either of you with a child -- a Jewish child attending a university like this right now?

FOER: You know, I think -- yeah I would have a lot of anxiety about it. But it also makes me sad to hear a Rabbi say that students should not feel safe going onto campus, even with these protests happening. I feel as if backing down, and then that sort of way almost gives the protesters exactly what they want. And I think it's really the onus should be on the university to create safe conditions for students.

HUNT: Yeah. What do you think Dana?

BASH: I don't know. I mean, -- I'm Max I think that ultimately, it's you can't let them win. And when I say them, I'm talking about like the true hateful comments. Everybody has a right to disagree with the policies of a democratic government.

HUNT: Of course.

BASH: And that is what is happening in Israel. People in Israel disagree with the policies of their elected government that does not give people the right to be full on vile and full of hate. And again, the sort of anti-Zionism anti-Netanyahu government that has left the building a long time ago when it comes to what you're actually seeing and not all of the cases but many of these cases it is raw hatred towards Jews.

HUNT: Yeah. Well, here's how Democratic Senator John Fetterman put it. He was talking about a White House statement.

[06:55:00]

Let's start with the White House. They said quote while every American has the right to peaceful protest calls for violence and physical intimidation targeting Jewish students and the Jewish community are blatantly anti-Semitic, unconscionable and dangerous.

And then Senator John Fetterman of Pennsylvania has actually lost a couple of staffers from his office reportedly because they disagree with him about these -- this particular issue, he wrote this I fully agree with the White House. These quote, protests and quote are anti- Semitic, unconscionable and dangerous. Add some -- torches and it's Charlottesville.

BASH: Yeah.

HUNT: -- for these Jewish students to Columbia President do your job or resign? So Columbia can find someone who will? You say yep, it is. Charlottesville if you add tiki torches.

BASH: I mean it's not that far off. He's not wrong. He's not wrong. Again, this is not -- this has gone way beyond being pro or anti- Israeli Government pro or anti the way that they're prosecuting the war. This is you have to learn from history.

And history shows us that when there is a motivating issue that can allow anti-Semitism to snowball, it will happen and it is happening. We're watching it real time.

HUNT: Kate for the White House here I mean obviously, we have seen -- you know these protests are organized. I also think we should probably note that and underscore it. Like yes, some of it is based on you know Frank to your point, the students are actually at the university. But there is also kind of an organization behind this.

They're using what's happened and signal and they are actively trying to put the cause of the Palestinians front and center and as Dana has very carefully, and importantly noted, we can separate these two things, right? There are people who think that what's happening in Gaza is wrong. And that is fully within, you know, their rights. And that's what they are, are protesting.

But what we have seen at Columbia has crossed lines in a way that is just distinctly different. Now that said, the White House is going to have to confront this repeatedly they're going to have to confront it. It sounds like we're going to confront it at the White House Correspondents Dinner here in Washington this weekend Democrats are going to have to confront it at the convention coming from the left of the party. The White House put out a very strong statement on this. What does that say to you and what this is a very, very difficult issue for them to confront?

BEDINGFIELD: It is and I think the -- but I think the statement that they put out, threads the needle in an important way in that one it directly it calls it blatant anti-Semitism. There's no dancing around it. There's no suggestion that -- you know some of the most hateful language that we're seeing emanate from the Columbia campus and from other places around the country is anti-Semitic and anti-Jewish.

And it's important for the White House to say that. You know they also acknowledge in the statement, that protest is peaceful protest which is critically important, the word peaceful, right? Peaceful protest is valid. And certainly you've seen -- I mean, you've seen Joe Biden criticize Netanyahu's prosecution of this war.

I don't think that the -- you know the White House is holding back from -- you know being clear about where they believe that the government of Israel is making unconscionable mistakes in the way that they're prosecuting the war. So it is important for them to continue to use the word anti-Semitism to call this out.

And to and to leave space for people to have legitimate protest against the -- you know the actions of, as Dana said, an elected government in the Middle East. The other thing I would -- I would add here is don't forget, as we mentioned, Charlottesville, I mean, that was a big motivating factor for President Biden to get into the race in 2019 and 2020.

What he saw in Charlottesville, I can tell you having been there with him at that time, he was incredibly horrified by what he saw. And in many of the same ways that Dana was just raising a you know really put it for him, he really put it in a historical context that this is an incredibly frightening and dangerous thing that snowballs and what we saw on display in Charlottesville in 2017, was a really pernicious and horrible thing that can very quickly spiral out of control of society.

HUNT: So this issue of rising anti-Semitism and hate across the board, as has been, I would argue fanned by Donald Trump, who's really is personally important to Joe Biden. And so I would expect to continue to see really direct language come out of the White House on this Matt?

GORMAN: I mean I can't put it better -- any better than a lot of the folks out on the panel. I mean, I think I agree with Frank that -- you know they owe these Jewish students -- you know a place to study and live safely and I shudder to think how much they're paying in tuition to be subjected to all of this. It's -- you know it's insane.

HUNT: Frank, to come back to this and I would highly recommend this story, "The Atlantic" cover story you say the era of American -- the golden age of American Jews is ending. Can you just as we wrap up here, explain what you mean?

FOER: You can almost do it to the arc of the history of Columbia University which was a place that had excluded Jews with quotas. They even created a campus in Brooklyn in order to take Jewish money of smart kid.

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