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Columbia Extends Talks With Pro-Palestinian Protesters; Trump Hosts Former Japanese Prime Minister At Trump Tower. Aired 6:30-7a ET

Aired April 24, 2024 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[06:30:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KASIE HUNT, CNN HOST: Welcome back. House Speaker Mike Johnson on his way to New York City to visit the Columbia University campus. Speaker's office tells CNN he'll visit with Jewish students and hold a press conference on what they call the troubling rise of -- anti- Semitism on America's college campuses. Overnight, Columbia University and student protesters agreed to extend a deadline for dismantling a pro-Palestinian encampment by two days.

Our Omar Jimenez is on the Columbia campus this morning with the latest. Omar, good morning to you.

OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Kasie. So yeah, those negotiations they were -- they were two key moments where obviously the Columbia president said a midnight deadline for them to come to an agreement. Otherwise, they're going to have to find alternative options to dismantle the encampment, that deadline came and went. And then a university spokesman said within the few hours after that deadline that they actually did make some progress.

And I want to tell you some of those negotiating tent poles including dismantling and removing a significant number of tents inside on campus behind me, ensuring that those not affiliated with Columbia University will leave the only university students participate in the protest that they comply with all the fire department's requirements with respect to activities and safety, and take steps to make the encampment, welcome to all people.

Now, look, I spoke to some of the students in that encampment yesterday, and they claim they have been welcoming. But I also spoke to some Jewish students who said that they -- that some of them have felt intimidated. And that has been the crux of a lot of this protest.

I also want to make a key distinction that there has been a difference in protests that have happened on campus versus off campus at the gates just behind me where you see some of the barricades and some of the officers. The off campus ones can have non-students because obviously, it's the sidewalk here.

But it's so much so to the point that the student protesters have tried to distance themselves from some of the messaging that comes on the outside because those tend to be a little bit more violent in nature, and at least an implication as well. Now look, as you mentioned, Speaker Johnson is expected to come visit here later today to meet with Jewish students to talk about the, quote, troubling rise of anti-Semitism on American college campuses.

And remember, there are House Republicans who have called for the Columbia University President Minouche Shafik resign over how she has handled this situation here. So obviously, we'll see what comes of his visit, he will likely see the encampment for himself hear from some of those Jewish students, but not all of whom have felt uncomfortable with what has happened. But clearly a good number of them have.

HUNT: All right, our Omar Jimenez for us at Columbia University, Omar, thank you very much for that. The panel is back here. First Faiz, let me bring you in here because this, of course, has become such an emotional flashpoint. And it was part of the debate that we saw play out on the Senate floor last night as well. Senator Bernie Sanders, who you've worked for, for quite some time, had this to say in the course of that debate, watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT): This was stopped being about defending Israel a long time ago. What is going on now is the destruction of the very fabric of Palestinian life. It is impossible to look at these facts and not conclude that the Israeli government's policy has been quite deliberately to make Gaza uninhabitable for Palestinians. Mr. President, that is why we must end our complicity in this terrible war.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: So of course, Senator Sanders giving voice to what many of those protesters are talking about as they set up these cabinets in Columbia. Now that said, there clearly have been lines crossed in the context of the anti-Semitic things that have been yelled at Jewish students and what they have reported.

What do you see as you see those the cabinet at Columbia, what is your view of how the administration of the university is handling it and how that's playing out here in Washington?

[06:35:00]

FAIZ SHAKIR, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, MORE PERFECT UNION: Those of us who've been on campuses for most of our lives know that there are always places of hotbed controversy and debate we wanted away. That is the purpose -- one of the main purpose --

HUNT: Sure, to meet of course.

SHAKIR: Should go to college to engage with others substantively. Most of these students are coming to this with sincerely held views. They aren't be asking you they actually believe strongly that Palestinians lives are being forsaken, that don't -- people don't care about them, and somebody has to give them voice, particularly in American political context in which you're sending even what 24 billion more to Israel.

Is there any concern that we got to give aid and support to Palestinians, they're giving voice to that? I have no problems with it. I love that, obviously, do it within the bounds of good, normal discourse and when persuasive allies, right, do it with good persuasive tactics. This freedom movement, I think the left is winning, right? Not only freedom, freedom on campus to have your voice, which I remember conservatives long used to argue for right, campus speech, right, that's happening.

Freedom for women have choose, freedom for workers in the workplace to organize, all these freedom movements are going on. And I see us as a Democratic Party as it progresses, the one pushing and saying, hey, Tim, democracy, it's pretty good.

HUNT: Is there not some tension though, between, I mean, if you're arguing that these protesters mean, do you think they should be able to say or things that I mean, there was pressure in that, in the hearing, whereas is it against the code of conduct to yell things that are anti-Semitic?

SHAKIR: Kasie, I worked at the ACLU for a while.

HUNT: Yeah.

SHAKIR: And I happen to come from ways of desires for speech, I want people to say what you truly believe, say it. Now, when you say things that are actually hurtful and anti-Semitic in nature and Islamophobic in nature, you should expect that people will come and hold you accountable for it, right. That's how you learn. That's how we grow.

Now, I don't want people banning speech. That's where I particularly draw the line. I think you need to hit, you should be held accountable for when you say and do things, there should be an awareness understanding of education and learning from those.

HUNT: How do you see the pushback on college campuses from liberals who said that conservatives giving speeches on their campuses or being invited to speak on their campuses was harmful?

SHAKIR: Above.

HUNT: Because that's the other side of this, right, that like there are a lot of protesters on the left who want to be able to speak the way that you're outlining, but a lot of them have opposed.

SHAKIR: Oh, for sure.

HUNT: Conservatives coming to their campus -- talk .

SHAKIR: That's right. And I'd long believe them when Ann Coulter (ph) would come to a campus or whomever it might be. I always said you want them to come, you don't have to attend it. There's no obligation to be there. You could go and you can turn around. You can do a whole variety of tactics that don't stop somebody from speaking, right. I happen to believe in discourse in America, I want freedom of speech. RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Look at that split

screen just had though about how many campuses you know, we're seeing that. Obviously, there is anti-Semitic behavior going on as part of this, but it is way beyond that. I mean, there is legitimate concern. And this is an issue that I think is dividing the Democratic coalition, as much as any foreign policy decision by a Democratic president since Vietnam.

I mean, multiple polls with two thirds of Democrats opposing further offensive weapons to Israel. Quinnipiac had a poll where Benjamin Netanyahu's favorable view among Democrats was 5 percent -- 5percent, one out of 20. Now, Chris, the paradox is that the voters who are the most discontented over, particularly young voters over Biden's policy toward Israel, if they stand back, and kind of vote third party or don't vote at all, they make it more likely to empower a Republican -- a Trump Administration that would be even more unwilling to confront him.

And Johnson's visit today, I think, is a reminder of that fundamental paradox there. So this is something that Biden really needs to get resolved, because it is, I think it is a deepening problem for him. The problem he's got is that is that Netanyahu's interest not to have it in. I mean, he wants it to go on as long as possible, because the further October 7th is in the rearview mirror when he has to face the voters, the better for him.

So this is -- I think the pressure on Biden to establish more distance with Netanyahu is going to grow, not diminish.

HUNT: So speaking of that and you mentioned Vietnam, Biden is set to give a commencement speech at Morehouse University -- at Morehouse College. And it's clear that the campaign and the administration is aware that this is going to be a flashpoint. And this was Morehouse alum, now civil rights attorney and as someone who works at the Council on American-Islamic Relations talking about Biden's impending address.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

EDWARD AHMED MITCHELL, DEPUTY DIRECTOR, COUNCIL ON AMERICAN-ISLAMIC RELATIONS NATIONAL HEADQUARTERS: The timing is bad. I mean, it would almost be like inviting Lyndon Johnson to come and speak at Morehouse at the height of the Vietnam War. I do expect that there will be a vocal outcry about this. But I do think in the spirit of Morehouse in the history of Morehouse, it'll be respectful, it'll be intelligent, it will be effective.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: So there you go.

[06:40:00]

BROWNSTEIN: Yeah, look, I mean, in that Harvard IOP poll of young voters, this wasn't necessarily their top concern. But Biden's approval rating on the war among people younger than 30 was 18 percent.

HUNT: Yeah.

BROWNSTEIN: OK. So you're talking -- and among young Democrats, it was overwhelmingly negative as well. I mean, this is, this is a reality that they are facing, they need strong showings among young voters. They are underperforming for a lot of reasons. But this is one of them, I think.

HUNT: Faiz, to that point, it says what is happening in Gaza is not a top issue for young voters. The Biden campaign tells politico it's not going to be for the vast majority of young voters the thing that's going to determine whether they vote or how they vote.

SHAKIR: Yeah, right. I think ultimately, they have to make a choice, it's Navy choice in an election, right, who's with your values, generally speaking more often than the other person. And I do think that that obviously looks at a whole variety of issues. I think there's a lot of working class issues out there that speak to young people.

If you look at the organizing that's going on at the UAW, it's one of the most popular things I've seen among young people right now organizing at Starbucks and Amazon that by and most poor labor candidate ever probably. And so I think it speaks to young people in different ways. They can be compartmentalized in silos just by one issue.

HUNT: Just last word.

MATT GORMAN, FORMER SENIOR ADVISOR TO TIM SCOTT'S PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN: Zooming out on Mike Johnson. He's trying to solidify his Republican base. I think this trip to Colombia is a way to unify that as well.

HUNT: Yeah, very interesting point. All right. Coming up next here, Donald Trump waiting for a judge to decide whether he's going to be held in contempt for violating a gag order, plus, President Biden is looking at a major endorsement.

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[06:45:00]

HUNT: All right, 45 minutes past the hour. Here's your morning Roundup. CNN is projecting progressive squad member. Congresswoman Summer Lee will win her Pennsylvania Democratic primary. Lee withstood an expensive race where she was hammered over her criticism of Israel's war in Gaza. Donald Trump is taking the campaign to Trump Tower again during his hush money trial.

Last night, the Former President hosted Former Japanese Prime Minister Taro Aso at his New York City property.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT AND 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: He's a highly respected man in Japan and beyond. And somebody that I've liked and I've known through a very dear friend.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right, Shinzo, we love Shinzo.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: And Tennessee teachers could soon be armed the state legislature passing a controversial bill that would allow a teacher or staff member to carry a concealed handgun on school grounds. They'll now head to the governor who could sign it, veto it or simply allow it to take effect.

President Biden set to get a major union endorsement today in North America's building trades unions, it'll be one of their earliest presidential endorsements ever the group's leaders citing the president's major infrastructure bill.

Also today we are awaiting a gag order ruling from the judge overseeing Donald Trump's criminal hush money trial after tensions boiled over in court yesterday. Judge Merchan is warning the defense team that they're quote, losing all credibility with the court at a hearing to determine whether Trump violated an order preventing him from publicly discussing witnesses. Then during that very hearing, there was this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JIMMY KIMMEL, HOST, JIMMY KIMMEL LIVE: 20 minutes after his lawyer told the judge, President Trump is being very careful to comply with your order, Trump very carefully posted this highly conflicted to put it mildly. By the way, you can put it mildly when you're using all caps. And it's impossible.

Judge Juan Merchan has taken away my constitutional right to free speech. He violated the gag order during a hearing about whether he violated the gag rule.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: During a hearing, OK, our panel is back. Michael Moore joins us. Michael, is that what he did?

MICHAEL MOORE, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: He probably did. I mean, there had been a lot of technical violations of the gag order. Some of the substance I think is still questionable. And maybe they stretched a little bit on trying to get the (inaudible) violations. But he just has a habit of not being able to sort of keep his mouth shut. So as long as we're in that battle and the gag order, both in the courtroom and then of course when it gets -- turns it loose on his own in social media.

HUNT: Right. And they were addressing down his lawyers for that. I mean, is his lawyer actually responsible? I mean, if anyone be responsible? MOORE: Yeah, as long as you got a job to put it the case up and he's

creating a record. He's preserving the record for appeal. So he's doing that. I mean, I will say this. I mean, if you've never been peeled off by a judge, you've probably had been in court very much. I mean, you sort of expect once in a while to catch a little bit.

And so that's what he did. But he was in a little bit of an impossible task, and that is to defend some of the indefensible comments that had been made. And there were things he could have raised. I think like, you know, the ambiguity of the order, sort of the vagueness of some of it to over breadth of some the terms of the order.

Those things to me may have been better arguments than sort of this back and forth with the judge and not answer the questions.

HUNT: Yeah. Ron Brownstein, a lot of this involves Michael Cohen, right? And I think -- this was "The Wall Street Journal" editorial board posed this question yesterday. And it sort of has stuck in my head, like, on the one hand, this gag order bands, talking about the jury, right, which Trump has gone out and done, right.

He has said they're all liberals, right, potentially inviting attacks on what would otherwise be anonymous citizens going about their daily lives, right? OK, that on the one hand. The other hand, you have Michael Cohen, who has been a political actor in the space, who has gone to prison, has been involved with Donald Trump for a long time and is out there attacking Donald Trump.

BROWNSTEIN: Yeah.

HUNT: Do you see a distinction between these? And does Donald Trump have an argument to say it's not fair to keep me from attacking him when he's attacking me?

BROWNSTEIN: And the judge and the judge's family, don't forget also.

HUNT: Right, of course. And I would set that in with the jury. I mean, that's a different situation.

BROWNSTEIN: Look, that's why this -- I mean, we've never had a former president facing criminal charges before. And while he's running for president -- while he's running for president and meeting with former Japanese Prime -- spending all day in the dingy courtroom as a criminal defendant, you know, under supervision by the court.

And then at night, you know, it's sort of like, it sort of like Batman or something, you know, he becomes this other person. And he's world leader meeting with former world leaders. It is a difficult call on someone like Michael Cohen, but ultimately he is a criminal defendant.

[06:50:00]

And I think he is under those rules. I mean, in the end, that is what has to apply. If you believe that we are a nation, we're known as above the law. And we live under the rule of law. I don't see why there should be a carve out, I'll leave it to the lawyer here. But why there should be a carve out for him distinct from someone else in the next courtroom, you know, 20 feet down the hall.

HUNT: Michael, do --

MOORE: No, no, I think he's right. I mean, I think he is -- Trump's in a different position because he's a criminal defendant. I think the key here might have been for the prosecutor to decide which things they were going to move forward on for a violation. And so when your star witness or one of your star witnesses is throwing the barbs, it's a little hard then to turn around and say oh but you know, the defendants violated by saying nasty things about us.

So I may have left that one and looked for more things were Trump's comment about the jury or something like that those to me seem like easier calls for the judge, the contract.

HUNT: Yeah. Matt, what do you think?

GORMAN: I think that's probably the right call. I'm trying to keep them at the O.J. Simpson trial not about the series of allegations but just the fact that we're covering this every day and witnesses are either already well known but back then they were becoming celebrities.

So it's like Kato Kaelin going and attacking you know, O.J. Simpson every day on cable news. He's very impressed. And so it is a little bit one sided, right?

HUNT: That's fair, yeah.

GORMAN: If one person saying this guy's guilty, blah blah blah, and it's like, wait a minute, I'm kind of hamstrung here. It's a weird scenario. And it does speak to kind of the unprecedented nature of all this.

HUNT: Alright, so let's stick with the politics here because we did learn in Court yesterday a lot about catch and kill. David Pecker, the Head of the National Enquirer acknowledging under oath that they did this. Ron Brownstein, how remarkable was this testimony? I mean, I have to say, I mean --

BROWNSTEIN: We've known about this, you know, phenomenon.

HUNT: Right.

BROWNSTEIN: But you're hearing it laid out, you know, in court is, is still, is still striking. I mean, we don't know what the impact of this trial ultimately is going to be on Donald Trump. You know, I was struck. There was a poll maybe about two weeks ago now, AP National Opinion Research Center, found that voters were less likely to view this as serious than the other cases.

They were less likely to believe he committed a crime than in the other big cases like election interference, which is going to turn on that Supreme Court hearing tomorrow. But the surprising thing about this poll was even though they thought it was less likely he committed a crime, the share of people who said that he would be unfit to be president, if convicted was roughly the same as in the other cases.

HUNT: That's interesting.

BROWNSTEIN: And that, that suggests there is a threshold -- the voters are going to have -- if he is convicted ultimately, which is not guaranteed. Voters are going to have to grapple with that threshold. Are they willing to put someone who was a convicted felon back in the Oval Office or a lot of jobs that you might not be able to, to get? You know, if you were in his position, are they willing to give him the most important position not only in the country, but the world.

HUNT: Yeah, the Republican voters against Trump has a new ad out basically underscoring this, it's probably too late for us to try to dig it up and find it to play it. But it's basically like, you know, you can't go to your local mall and get a job with these not even without the convictions just without these kind of allegations. But maybe be the President of the United States.

Faiz, what is your assessment of one of the things I think that's, that's so challenging about covering Donald Trump, right, is that, like, none of the laws have ever applied, right, like you think that like a trial involving a porn star and like, like allegations of an affair, and it's like, it's incredibly sorted. And we're all being dragged back when all these allegations first came out in 2015 and 2016, but does it matter.

SHAKIR: Right, to your point of, are we learning anything new about Donald Trump? And I think, you know, from my vantage point, I said this in prior segment, I'm going to maintain my viewpoint on this. I want speech, I want free speech. I want Donald Trump to keep talking, the things that we're going to learn about him are just revelations about his behavior.

What happens when as Ron says, do you believe that the law applies to everybody? No, he doesn't. Do you believe that judges have authority over the court? No, he doesn't. Do you believe that the opposing counsel should be able present the case? No, I don't. You know, like, you're going to see the qualities of do you want that person to be the chief executor of this land? Do you want them to be the literally the owners of all of the laws of the United States? To me, that's the journey that we're on and we're going to see it against law.

HUNT: Let's just watch what the fact that this trial is playing out right now has prompted Mitt Romney, Former Governor of Massachusetts and well known pious man had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MITT ROMNEY (R-UT): I think everybody has made their own assessment of President Trump's character and as far as I know, you don't pay someone $130,000 not to have sex with you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: Matt?

GORMAN: Yeah.

(CROSSTALK)

GORMAN: But I will say this, like, the conversation we've had when I worked for Mitt Romney, you know, some of you all covered him, you know, when he was in the primary against whether it's Newt Gingrich or others, Rick Santorum, they have a boom let into the Romney team, we'd all kind of come in and you're bashing with opposition research and you go ads and make they fall back down.

[06:55:00]

HUNT: You're talking about when you worked for Jeb?

GORMAN: No, Mitt Romney.

HUNT: OK.

GORMAN: But then I worked for Jeb with the phenomenon that we all kind of talk about. This has been the terminus for a decade was OK, Trump comes up, we're ready to go, just kind of the playbook that we've done with Romney. And all of a sudden, what, for decades, one plus one equal two, one plus one suddenly equals three. And it doesn't make sense.

And so I think with that, the tough challenge, we've been doing this for a decade now. And so what I hear kind of from Democrats, oh, he's, you know, Trump's this Trumps that it's OK. But wait a minute. What is different than what people have been saying since 2015 about this? I think that is a challenge for them as they go forward message, all of this.

HUNT: Yeah, it's a really good way to think about it. And look, speaking of one plus one equaling three, etcetera. One of the other things that we learned yesterday was that the National Enquirer also basically acknowledged that they made up the story that was on this cover back during the 2016 campaign, which is that Ted Cruz's father was linked to the JFK assassination.

And there is this picture there you see Lee Harvey Oswald and Rafael Cruz, that's Ted Cruz's father. And at the time, well, let's just let me show you what Ted Cruz had to say about it. And then we'll show you what Donald Trump had to say about it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX): Donald Trump alleges that my dad was involved in assassinating JFK. Now, let's be clear. This is not, this is not a reasonable position. This is just kooky.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: Ted Cruz, let's be clear now, fully supports Donald Trump, Ron?

BROWNSTEIN: Right. I mean --

HUNT: And actually, hold on, before you go, let's play what Donald Trump was saying about Ted Cruz at the time.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP (Via Telephone): His father was with Lee Harvey Oswald prior to Oswald being, you know, shot, I mean, the whole thing is ridiculous. What is this right prior to his being shot, and nobody even brings it up? I mean, they don't even talk about that that was reported. And nobody talks about it. But I think it's horrible.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWNSTEIN: You know, some competition between Ted Cruz, Marco Rubio and Lindsey Graham, are the politicians who are the most in a game of thrones esque broken by Donald Trump in 2016. And I've never found the nerve to kind of get off the knee, I mean, they bend to the knee. Can I just say one gritty political point about this?

HUNT: Yes, please.

BROWNSTEIN: Which is, it is highly unlikely that Joe Biden is going to run as well in 2024, as he did in 2020 among men. He's not going to run particularly as well among black and Hispanic men largely over discontent about the economy, which means that if he's going to win, he's going to have to run, he's going to have to have an even bigger gender gap than he did last time.

He is, in fact, in most polls holding his support among women. And that is I do wonder about that aspect of the trial, the sordidness of this, and just kind of the details of everything that that, you know, that is involved here at the margin, helping Biden do what he needs to do among women, because he is going to have I think almost an impossible task trying to equal his number from 2020 among men.

HUNT: Yeah. Michael Moore, just as we kind of wrap up this conversation, what are you looking at next in this trial? I mean, in terms of what David we've been kind of laying the groundwork with all this, right?

MOORE: Yeah. You know, a trial is really a story about a case a set of facts. And so we're watching the sort of the prosecution put pages in the book of the story right now. And so as they begin to fill out and they fill in chapters, and they bring witnesses to sort of start to tell the story, they will bring in people who have details about it.

I think they're going to sort of preview defenses that we're going to hear from the Trump camp from the defense team. And so that's, that's something that, and again, they're going to probably be previewing defenses that are raised both in court and out of court, frankly. But we'll watch them start to flesh that out. I hope what they do is they keep it simple.

They keep the case focused, they maybe not get caught up in as much of the distraction. And then they will begin to figure out how to deal with when they put up Michael Cohen, when they put up Ms. Daniels, you know we'll see sort of where they go with that. That'll be the --

HUNT: Good reminder that we're just beginning.

MOORE: We're just beginning right.

HUNT: All right. On that note, I'll leave you with this.

(VIDEO PLAYING)

HUNT: It's hardly been a fortnight and Taylor Swift's new album "Tortured Poets Department" is already historic. It's set streaming milestones, broken the record for first week vinyl sales, and is poised to top the Billboard charts when they come out next week. If "Tortured Poets Department" rises to the top spot as expected, Swift will tie Jay-Z as the artist with the second most number one albums on the charts only behind these guys.

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