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Giuliani & Meadows Indicted In Arizona, Trump Named Unindicted Co-Conspirator; U.S. Secretly Supplies Ukraine With Long-Range Missiles; Politico: European Leaders Grappling With Possible Second Trump Presidency. Aired 5-5:30a ET

Aired April 25, 2024 - 05:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[05:00:39]

KASIE HUNT, CNN ANCHOR: It's Thursday, April 25th.

Right now on CNN THIS MORNING:

Former Trump allies, Rudy Giuliani and Mark Meadows, among 18 people indicted in Arizona for trying to overturn the 2020 election.

The Supreme Court ready to hear arguments in a case that could blow pull up every prosecution of the former president.

And President Biden apparently changing his mind about sending long- range missiles to Ukraine.

(MUSIC)

HUNT: All right, 5:00 a.m. here in Washington. A live look at Capitol Hill on this Thursday morning.

Good morning, everyone. I'm Kasie Hunt. It's wonderful to have you with us.

It is an incredibly consequential day for former President Trump. You have those immunity arguments.

His hush money trial resumes, and breaking overnight, a grand jury and Arizona handed up an indictment against a group of Trumps allies for their attempts to overturn he is 2020 election loss. A source familiar with the investigation tells CNN that the indictment includes several people connected to Trumps 2020 campaign. His former lawyer, Rudy Giuliani, and former White House chief of staff, Mark Meadows. As well as members of the Arizona GOP whose certified themselves as alternate electors for Trump.

The former president was not indicted, but as listed as an unindicted coconspirator Arizona attorney general, Kris Mayes, who led this investigation, spoke about the indictments yesterday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KRIS MAYES (D), ARIZONA ATTORNEY GENERAL: Arizona's election was free and fair. The people of Arizona elected President Biden. Unwilling to accept this fact, the defendants charged by the state grand jury allegedly schemed to prevent the lawful transfer of the presidency. Whatever their reasoning was, the plot to violate the law must be answered for.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: Joining me now to discuss is former January 6 investigative counsel, Marcus Childress.

Marcus, good morning to you. Thanks so much for being here.

Can you help us understand why -- you know, why were learning about this now, how this has unfolded in Arizona, and how it plays in to the bigger picture of all of the legal challenges around the 2020 election?

MARCUS CHILDRESS, FORMER JANUARY 6 INVESTIGATIVE COUNSEL: Right. Well, it's always nice when you can kind of zoom in and see how this was impacted on a state-by-state level.

And I think its an interesting juxtaposition that we have here today. You mentioned Supreme Court here in this case, and that really got there from the federal January 6 case against the president that looked had a had a nationwide view and now were getting a glimpse into Arizona specifically, and its not different than really Georgia, or Michigan or any other states that have investigated the fake electors scheme.

But it looks at overturning the lawful election as the attorney general just said. And in Arizona and trying to prevent the loss full transfer of power, specifically on Arizona legislator, the Arizona electors that were sent to put pressure on the vice president.

HUNT: Yeah. And, let's hear a little bit from one of these fake electors because I do think it is worth remembering that these -- they're actually people.

CHILDRESS: People.

HUNT: Right? Yes when you say fake electors and it almost -- it seems like all is that a piece of paper? No, it's a person. Here's one of them.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STATE SEN. ANTHONY KERN (R), ARIZONA: My name is Anthony Kern. I am a current state senator representing Legislative District 27 and I'm here in front of the superior court building this morning because I was an alternate elector in November 2020 for President Donald Trump. I was asked to step up along with other ordinary citizens, and I chose to accept. I was honored and will always be honored.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: Just kind of remarkable to hear that from someone. I mean, he calls himself an alternate elector. I think we should be clear, that's not a thing. It's a fake --

CHILDRESS: Correct.

HUNT: -- fake elector.

As we listened to all this happened and see this unfold, what does it mean for our 2024 election for this year that we're in now?

CHILDRESS: Look, I think it shows the extent that some parties and including the former President who's running for reelection again now, was willing to go to claim victory over Joe Biden who had lawfully one.

I think we look at the fake electors scheme in a silo rather than looking at as part of the multi-prong larger attack on the institution, right? You'd look at the fraud that folks like Sidney Powell were spreading and that's what these lawsuits were based upon, and this what these fake electors are alternate electors were supposedly put in place, just contingent, just in case one of these cases were to be successful.

[05:05:04]

But they still sent the paperwork into Washington, D.C. It was still used to try to pressure the vice president into certifying their slate of electors or maybe sending it back to the state legislators, or even putting pressure on the state legislatures. And that's what you've seen us indictment, is that pressure campaign? At the state level on the vice president and unindicted coconspirator number one, the former president being involved in this action?

HUNT: Yeah, it's a really remarkable snapshot of something that clearly was a much bigger plan.

Marcus, you worked extensively on the January 6 committee, of course. Today, honestly, historic day, these arguments at the Supreme Court to hear whether the -- any former president -- any president should be completely immune, at least that's the Trump teams claim from actions, official actions, or I should say, from actions taken while president of the United States, what are you watching for given your deep understanding of the events of that day and the legal ramifications as these arguments play out in the court?

CHILDRESS: Really eager to see how the Supreme Court treats this notion of accountability fall under the law. This is truly, you mentioned it already at the top of the show is one of those historic moments history, and I don't say that lightly.

This is really going to dictate whether we truly believe that everyone is accountable to the law. The former president is arguing that by allowing him to be prosecuted, its a moral threat to the presidency because he was performing as outer perimeter of his duties, citing the Nixon case, and that it will prevent presidents from feeling free to make decisions as best for the country if they're, if they're fearful of being prosecuted in the back-end. I tend to agree with the special counsel's argument that we are a nation of laws and everyone is accountable to those laws. And I want to really want to make the point that overturning a lawful election while sitting us president, I don't see a world with that can be considered part of the outer perimeter of the president's duties. And I expect that the government, were making that point today. All of the Supreme Court typically doesn't weight into facts. I expect those themes to be competing back-and-forth here today of the moral threat of being a president versus accountability under the law.

HUNT: Do you believe that there does need to be some sort of distinction made, like should there be some areas where the court says -- well, if you make a decision as commander in chief in the context of sale war, et cetera that that shouldn't be something that's prosecutable?

CHILDRESS: Well, I'll be interested to see if one of the justice asked Trump's attorneys to name a criminal statute where it is illegal for a president to make a commander in chief decision. I don't think those are on the books.

What is on the books is a conspiracy to overturn an election. But we've never seen a president prosecuted for decisions made as a commander in chief, especially when it comes to like foreign policy type decisions, because there aren't any criminal statutes that impose that type of liability on the president.

But there are statutes on the book for overturning an election.

HUNT: So you're saying we are a nation of laws.

(LAUGHTER)

CHILDRESS: We are a nation of laws and those laws have been thought through and they're being executed.

HUNT: All right. Marcus Childress for us this morning, Marcus, thanks very much for starting us off. I really appreciate it.

All right. Coming up next, the Pentagon confirming the U.S. has delivered long-range missiles to Ukraine, plus, a tense standoff at USC between police and pro-Palestinian protesters.

And David Pecker back on the stand, expected to face questions about Stormy Daniels.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[05:13:02]

HUNT: Welcome back.

The U.S. secretly supplied Ukraine with long-range missiles earlier this month. That's something that President Biden had been reluctant to do in the past. Now, there are plans to send even more. U.S. officials have been wary of provoking Russia by helping

Ukrainians with long-range attack capabilities. President Biden's position shifted after Russia received ballistic missiles from North Korea.

Here's national security adviser Jake Sullivan.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAKE SULLIVAN, NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISOR: We've already sent some. We will send more now that we have additional both authority and money.

What we have seen from the Russians is their willingness to accept long-range which missiles from other countries specifically North Korea. They have used those in the battlefield. They have used them to attack Ukrainian civilians as well.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: All right. Joining me now, is CNN's Max Foster.

Max, always good to see you. Thank you so much for being here.

Walk us through the shift here. How does this make a difference potentially in the war? And what does it represent in terms of possible escalation?

MAX FOSTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, the Kremlin doesn't like it, has spoken out against these long run -- long-range missiles. And you're right to pick them out because it's the -- America was refusing to send them for a long time. Now they're sending them, something has changed there.

I think in a very basic terms, what Ukraine is meant to be doing in theory is defending its homeland and pushing Russia back to the Russian border as they see it. What long-range missiles allow them to do is to fire into Russia with American weapons, which suddenly becomes more aggressive rather than defensive. So I think that's the bigger issue here.

Also, a big package going to Ukraine, a huge amount of money. But is it really going to change where the front lines are? Probably not just allowing them to hold those front lines. So, it's not necessarily a situation where were going to see Ukraine managing to take its territory back at the same time. It does now have this potential to fire into Russia.

[05:15:02]

HUNT: Very interesting. Max, the other sort of piece of fat package of aid that Ukraine sent was, according to reports in "Politico" and other outlets, a significant lobbying campaign from European leaders. You and I had talked about how David Cameron went down to Mar-a-Lago to meet with Donald Trump. There also was a meeting between Trump and the polish leader Duda that have been characterized as actually part of a push to convince him not to stand in the way of the aid package that was working its way through Congress here in Washington.

And now, "Politico" on yours side of "The Atlantic", they operate here, but also in Europe has a pretty significant piece. They write this: the former reality TV star's return to power, they're talking about Trump, would not only be the biggest test and transatlantic relations and post-war history, it could pose an existential risk two European unity as tensions over how to work with the world's most powerful country, pull the continent apart on issues ranging from trade policy to the fight against climate change, to the defense of European territory.

Can you help us understand how it is that Trump might divide Europe among itself?

FOSTER: Well, I think the last election when he was last president, he was new to it and trying new policies out. They can handle that. This time he's coming back in. He's much clearer about his policy. Also, the territory's change.

So, you know, we've got this war in corrupt a debate about when you can take another country's territory, climate change, trade these are more tense issues now, if Trump comes in is very clear on them, much tougher on Europe takes a completely different the line on Europe than what you have to have is a common response from Europe.

And I think probably what this article is alluding to is the fact that having one clear, cohesive, common response from Europe, which is strong enough to counter the U.S. view, is going to be almost impossible because getting agreement within the E.U. and then tied to the fact you got the E.U. countries like U.K. to factor into that would it have enough power to counter or will it be individual countries working on their own against the U.S. view?

That's the challenge and it does become existential because it basically makes the E.U. defunct, isn't operating in a political bloc, just an economic bloc.

HUNT: Very, very difficult.

All right. Max Foster for us in London -- Max, always grateful to have you. Thank you so much.

FOSTER: Thanks, Kasie.

HUNT: All right. Ahead here, Arizona Republicans voting on a bill to overturn that civil war era on abortion,

Plus -- ban on abortion -- plus, the Supreme Court ready to hear Donald Trump's claims of presidential immunity.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[05:22:18]

HUNT: All right. Twenty-one minutes past the hour. Here's your morning roundup. Tense pro-Palestinian protests hitting a fever pitch on college

campuses. At USC in California, protesters clashed with police leading to the arrest of nearly 100 people and at UT-Austin, students were met by Texas state troopers in riot gear, more than 30 demonstrators are escorted off campus in cuffs.

Secretary of State Antony Blinken landing in Beijing for high level talks with his Chinese counterpart. He has expected to push back on China's stance on Taiwan and their support for Russia.

The Republican state house in Arizona voting to repeal an 1864 ban on abortions, this after two failed attempts last week. This paves the way to leave a 15-week restriction in place.

More than 15 million people facing severe storm threats across tornado alley in the central plains, such bring heavy rain to the area. And even more people will be at risk as the threat expands going into the weekend.

Our weatherman, Derek Van Dam here with us to break it all down.

Derek, good morning. What are these folks looking at?

DEREK VAN DAM, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Yeah, good morning.

Here's the 15 million people under risk of severe weather today. But check how this expands, and then balloons into the next couple of days. So we're talking 37 million Americans under a threat of severe weather tomorrow and then 53 million Americans for the day on Saturday. And the fact that the Storm Prediction Center already has these enhanced risks highlighted right here where you see the shading of orange for both day two and day three is saying something because they're giving high confidence that something is about to go down.

But let's talk about the most important day, that is today, we have to keep an eye to the sky if you're located in Dodge City, all the way to the Texas and Oklahoma panhandle. You see that hatched area we have overlaid on top of the orange coloring. That is the area that we've highlighted that has the greatest chance of EF2 tornadoes or greater, that means a minimum of 111-mile per hour winds potentially within this area as they see the greatest risk of tornadoes within that particular region.

That doesn't mean a tornado can occur outside of that, but that's where they think the strongest tornadoes will occur. And then on top of that, we've got a larger space and coverage for two-inch or greater in diameter hail that is baseball-sized hail or greater falling from the sky within this particular location, these storms will advance eastward on top of the severe weather threat is a flash flood threat, multi-hazards, multi-days, and millions of Americans on the threat going into the weekend, Kasie.

HUNT: All right. Good to know. We'll keep our eyes on that.

Our weatherman Van Dam, Derek, thank you very much. Really appreciate it. Coming up next, Donald Trump back in court this morning as the judge

ways whether or not he violated his gag order.

[05:25:04]

Plus, House Speaker Mike Johnson calling on Columbia University's president to step down.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HUNT: A live at New York City where Donald Trump's hush money trial resumes this morning.

Good morning. Thanks for being with us. I'm Kasie Hunt.

Trump will be back in a New York courtroom in four hours, that criminal hush money trial resumes. While here in Washington, the Supreme Court hears his arguments.

[05:30:00]