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NYPD Enters Hamilton Hall At Columbia, Removes Protesters; Florida's 6-Week Abortion Ban Set To Take Effect This Week; Violent Clashes Between Rival Protest Groups On UCLA Campus. Aired 5:30-6a ET

Aired May 01, 2024 - 05:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[05:30:08]

KASIE HUNT, CNN ANCHOR: All right, back now to our breaking story out of California.

Overnight, pro-Palestinian protesters and counter-protesters faced off on the campus of UCLA. The pro-Palestinian group using umbrellas, plywood, and barricades to try to hold the ground around the encampment. We have seen people throwing bottles, pallets, traffic cones -- even a scooter. Several fistfights have broken out.

The mayor has now said that LAPD has arrived on the scene, but this did go on for several hours with no police in sight.

Meanwhile, at Columbia University, the campus now clear of protesters late last night. The police were called to remove demonstrators from Hamilton Hall and the encampment outside.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NYPD breaking in door at Hamilton Hall.

NYPD POLICE OFFICER: Police!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: Protesters had barricaded themselves inside the building with chairs, tables, and vending machines, and dozens were arrested.

Joining me now, adjunct associate professor at Columbia University, Hagar Chemali. Hagar, good morning to you. Thank you for being here.

Clearly, the university was trying to avoid taking this step with the police. They had spent days negotiating with these protesters after they felt a previous call to the police had led to an escalation. They now have said in a statement that they believe that there were some outside activists in this group that took over Hamilton Hall -- that it was not just students.

What is your understanding, and what have you been hearing and absorbing as you've been on campus? HAGAR CHEMALI, ADJUNCT ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR, COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY (via Webex by Cisco): Well, thanks, Kasie.

First of all, you make a very important point about the fact that the administration had been negotiating with the students for over a week and the view was that after the arrests that took place about 10 days ago -- two weeks ago -- and the backlash that ensued, the administration tried to take a different approach. So, again -- I mean, they were navigating, really, uncharted territory here and going this way and then going that way. And they negotiated really in good faith from what I saw as a faculty member.

They were updating us multiple times a day. Not just every day -- multiple times a day we were getting emails from the administration talking about the progress that they were making with the students. That they were hopeful. That it was very clear, as a professor, that they were trying to do everything they could to avoid bringing the police back.

But at the end of the day, they were not only -- they were not only breaking Columbia's rules by staying there but they were preventing kids from studying for their final exams. This is the week of studies -- of studying and finals, and it goes into next week as well. They were disrupting everyone at their dorms, in front of the library, and so on.

And also, critically, they were encamped in an area that was there for graduation, and you wouldn't have been able to hold graduation with the encampment there even though this is a minority of students.

Now, on the question about the outside agitators, Columbia has had this problem since the beginning where there have been outside agitators either invited onto campus by students or who have taken advantage of these young, impressionable minds. As it wore on, you saw Columbia tighten the security.

But we already had one instance of students who were suspended for inviting speakers who were tied -- one of whom was tied to a U.S.- designated terrorist organization. And Columbia said you can't have them speak. They went ahead and did it anyway privately in their dorm room and then those students were suspended.

So it doesn't surprise me that there might be some outside influence here.

HUNT: Yeah. Hagar, we're looking at -- we've been looking at pictures that have come in overnight from UCLA where the protests have turned violent between protesters and counter-protesters. The police have now -- the LAPD has now been called in there.

When you see these images -- I mean, how do you understand? And Columbia did manage to avoid this kind of a scene -- I will say that -- which is interesting. Here you can see a protester throwing traffic cones. We know that they also threw scooters as well. And again, the L.A. mayor saying that the LAPD is on the way there.

It seems like UCLA also had made the decision to try to avoid police involving themselves here but clearly, they had no choice after this.

CHEMALI: Yeah. Actually, when I saw what was happening at UCLA it made me view what happened at Columbia as a -- as a -- as everything being in a much more organized, controlled fashion on the part of the administration because they really did do everything they could to avoid things escalating or things getting violent.

I mean, in this case, protesters who have crossed the line into violent protesting. And once that happens, you -- the -- whether it's the university -- by the way, whether it's the university or a public park, or anywhere, you have to crack down on that. You can't allow protesters to become violent.

So the fact that it lasted for a few hours before the police was invited onto campus confuses me a bit because then you're only lending it vulnerable to something really dangerous happening to some of these students. So that shocked me.

One of the things I do understand from Columbia's side is that once the decision was made that -- when the students took over the building -- which, by the way, was clearly planned on their part -- that if they had reached this point they were not leaving. They wanted to take over that building and barricade themselves in, and so on.

[05:35:08]

When this -- when the university made the decision to move ahead and invite the police on campus they did so very quickly. And from what I understand from law enforcement, that is very typical that the sooner the better in order to avoid things from devolving into chaos.

HUNT: Yeah.

Hagar, you're a graduate of Barnard College. And yesterday, the school's president lost a faculty-wide vote of no confidence, and that was in the wake of some suspensions of students who had protested.

Do you agree with that decision? And what is your sense of where the faculty of many of these universities are, kind of, collectively as this unfolds?

CHEMALI: Yeah, I'm glad you asked about that.

I thought that the president of Barnard did a great job -- I really do -- and moving -- navigating this time period since October 7. These -- the professors -- and I have to say I'm in the minority. I believe I'm in the minority at Columbia. I don't think that -- or a silent majority. But I'm not in the -- certainly not a loud majority.

At Barnard, the president, earlier this year, put a ban a lot of political speech and pro-Palestinian speech on campus. And so, for example, professors were barred from putting outside their office some kind of poster or statement that leaned one way or the other.

And the reason for that is that they didn't want students -- these are -- these are offices that students are going to for office hours or questions, or meetings, and they didn't want students feeling intimidated because of one leaning or one view or the other. And frankly, I agree with that decision.

It's one thing for a professor to speak out or to research something and write something that's thoughtful and publish something. And it's completely different for a professor to slap some kind of statement that's very sided on their office door when they are teaching a wide range of students. They -- it doesn't help keep the dialogue open or safe for most students.

So that's the thing we're mostly upset about. I disagree with it, but it feels like I'm in the minority.

HUNT: Hagar, there's a lot of conversation --

CHEMALI: Sorry, I disagree with the professors.

HUNT: Understood. Understood.

There's been a lot of discussion -- and you can pick it up on the page of the front -- on the front page of The New York Times today -- about comparisons to 1968 and particularly, people now -- you know, baby boomers who lived through those protests. What they -- how they viewed them.

Do you think that these scenes -- obviously, it's the same building at Columbia. Some of the pictures feel not dissimilar. I do think there are some significant differences. I'm curious you view that.

CHEMALI: Well, I think the students definitely view it like their own 1968. And I've heard -- I've been hearing them make that reference numerous times that this is their Vietnam and that they're right -- they are on the right -- the right side of history.

And I think it's important to let students explore that and have debate and freedom of expression. I don't want to come off as though students shouldn't protest on campus -- they should. And that's the beautiful thing about this country and about being at Columbia where this kind of expression is encouraged, if anything.

But in my view, as somebody who works in foreign policy and history is a big part of that -- to me, Vietnam was completely different. You're talking about -- there was a conscription of American soldiers. You had soldiers abroad dying. And you had a U.S. government that was falsifying information to make the war more palatable to the public. This is a completely different situation.

But I do think that the students -- they see that history -- the activism -- and I do think that for them it felt like this moment. But I don't believe it will land the same way. If -- in my view, if they really want to end the war, then they would be marching in Washington. And by all means, do it.

I think that if they focused their message on ending the war on the catastrophic humanitarian situation in Gaza and the -- they'd find many allies in that. If they were to call for the hostages to be released, they'd find many allies in their -- in their cause.

But the way they had a lot of language that was very violent, that incited violence -- calling for intifada and saying resist the colonial power by any means necessary. They had a lot of hateful language. I saw a lot of students sending me messages about keeping Zionists out and Zionists not allowed at social events and so on.

And so, what they're doing then is just creating a hostile environment for their peers. And that's not the same --

HUNT: Yeah.

CHEMALI: -- of what the protesters at Vietnam did. So, I -- but they see that comparison. I just don't think history will show that it'll play out that way.

HUNT: All right, Hagar Chemali, adjunct professor at Columbia. Thank you very much for your time this morning. I really appreciate it.

Overnight, this. Florida went from being a key access point for abortion services in the South to the home of one of the strictest abortion laws in the nation. Florida's six-week abortion ban is now in effect, making it a felony to perform or actively participate in abortions past that point. The new law does include exceptions for rape, incest, and to protect the life of the mother, but they're limited in scope and subject to conditions.

[05:40:09]

Vice President Kamala Harris set to place the blame for the law squarely on former President Trump during a visit to Jacksonville later today before Florida voters have a chance to overturn the law with a referendum to enshrine abortion rights in the state's constitution. That's going to be on the ballot in November.

Joining me now to discuss, New York Times religion and politics reporter, Elizabeth Dias. Also, the co-author of the new book "The Fall of Roe: The Rise of A New America." Elizabeth, good morning to you. Thank you so much for being here.

ELIZABETH DIAS, RELIGION AND POLITICS REPORTER, THE NEW YORK TIMES, CO-AUTHOR, "THE FALL OF ROE: THE RISE OF A NEW AMERICA": Thank you.

HUNT: What is the significance of the ban going into effect in Florida considering there is such limited access in the U.S. South to abortion now?

DIAS: It's really remarkable. I was thinking earlier this morning -- I mean, it was almost two years ago tomorrow, I think, that the Supreme Court decision to overturn Roe leaked and that America, from literally two years ago this morning to today, is just so absolutely different.

And a state like Florida represents that in such tangible ways because in the Mississippi case, which overturned Roe, there was already very limited access to abortion, right, in Mississippi. There was only one clinic. But in Florida, there's dozens of clinics. Tens of thousands of abortions there, until today, each year.

And the switch -- I mean, there's no -- where are so many women who still are going to be seeking abortions -- where are they going to go? They're going to be driving, in some cases, five, 10, 14 hours to Virginia, maybe. They're going to have to go, like, really out of the entire southern region, which was the whole point for the anti- abortion movement.

But also, you think back to two years ago, I remember talking with some activists -- anti-abortion activists about how kind of euphoric they were thinking about the fall of Roe. But the entire political situation is different now and the cost to them and the backlash that has come is really strong, even in a place like Florida, which is --

HUNT: Right.

DIAS: -- presidential (PH).

HUNT: Well, and I think we should underscore, too, six weeks -- most women don't know they're pregnant when they're "six weeks" --

DIAS: No.

HUNT: -- pregnant.

DIAS: No, they do not.

HUNT: You would have maybe just -- it might have just occurred to you that you should perhaps test --

DIAS: Right.

HUNT: -- for that or something along those lines.

This, of course, raises a lot of questions about enforcement --

DIAS: Um-hum.

HUNT: -- and who is potentially at -- held accountable. Is it women? Is it doctors?

There was an interview in Time magazine published yesterday with former President Donald Trump, the presumptive Republican nominee, and he was asked this by the reporter. "Do you think states should monitor women's pregnancies so they can know if they've gotten an abortion after the ban?" And Trump said, "I think they might do that. Again, you'll have to speak to the individual states."

What should American women take away from that?

DIAS: Hmm. Well, actually, if you think back, this is something President Trump -- former President Trump more than hinted at when he first ran for president in 2016. If you remember, there was the quote when he said -- he was asked about should women be prosecuted for having an abortion and should they be -- should they be punished for having an abortion. And the answer was yes. And so, in some ways, like, there could be, like, oh my goodness, I

can't believe he said this in this interview. But also, he's kind of been saying what his agenda was on this for so long even though now he knows the politics are so bad for Republicans on this, so he's been trying to kind of split that difference. And he's been, actually, very vocally against his anti-abortion -- the leaders of that base for him -- saying, like, no, he's not going to be with them -- at least, so he says, right, on --

HUNT: Yeah.

DIAS: -- supporting a national ban.

But I think you -- what we document in our book is really showing -- which is coming out in June -- is really showing, like, what didn't you not see? Like, what we were not maybe as a country paying attention to over the last decade that really got America to this moment? That got to a place where you're -- or Florida -- a place like Florida, which was what abortion rights activists considered a haven in the South --

HUNT: Yeah.

DIAS: -- for access is going away.

HUNT: Yeah. And we're going to have some new numbers out at 6:00 a.m. this morning here at CNN kind of showing the depth of why Donald Trump thinks that this particular is so bad for them electorally.

DIAS: OK.

HUNT: Elizabeth Dias, New York Times reporter and co-author of "The Fall of Roe: The Rise of A New America. Thank you very much.

DIAS: Thank you.

HUNT: I really appreciate it.

All right. Up next, more on our breaking news as chaos erupts on the campus of UCLA and protests turn violent overnight.

Plus, new comments from Donald Trump about political violence. What he said and, more importantly, what he didn't say.

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[05:49:15]

HUNT: Welcome back.

LAPD now lining the encampment of UCLA after rival protest groups broke out into violent clashes overnight. This is just the latest escalation on college campuses across the U.S. It's a significant one.

Lawmakers on Capitol Hill have been expressing their frustration as these protests have grown out of control. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY): Smashing windows with hammers and taking over university buildings is not free speech; it is lawlessness.

REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA): Antisemitism is a virus and because the administration and woke university presidents aren't stepping in, we're seeing it spread. We have to act.

REP. PETE AGUILAR (D-CA): Everyone is entitled a right to protest, but everyone is also entitled to feel safe, especially on a college campus. I do not support taking over buildings. That is not appropriate.

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[05:50:10]

HUNT: Tia Mitchell is Washington correspondent for The Atlanta Journal-Constitution and she joins us now. Tia, good morning. Thanks for being here.

Our Stephen Collinson, here at CNN, also writes about how these protests could affect us in an election year. He says, "Dramatic campus protests are injecting an inflammatory new element into an election year that is already threatening to stretch nation unity to a breaking point." And these images out of UCLA seem to really underscore that.

How do you think this -- and it's going to raise questions for President Biden, as well, as to how he should respond. What are the conversations? What's your reporting about what's going on the White House and what's going on behind the scenes on Capitol Hill about what to do about all of this?

TIA MITCHELL, WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT, THE ATLANTA JOURNAL- CONSTITUTION: So, there's another example of the partisan divide even in the rhetoric you just showed. You know, on the right, their constituents aren't demanding as much nuance as Democrats are facing. So, Republicans are able to just say these riots are antisemitic and they're wrong, and they should be quashed. And --

HUNT: These protests, you mean.

MITCHELL: Yes. I'm sorry, the protests are wrong and should be -- and should be quashed.

Whereas, Democrats -- yes, they're able to say they're wrong and they should be quashed, but they also know that there is a progressive side to their party that wants the acknowledgment that the protests have their roots in concern about the humanitarian crisis in Gaza. And so, they're trying to be measured. And as a result, Democrats are finding it a no-win situation because they're not going far enough for some of their voters -- but for other voters, they're going too far in condemning the protests. HUNT: Well, I mean, Columbia is a very kind of on-point example of that because you had a group of Jewish Democrats who went and stood in solidarity and walked with Jewish students. They were Democrats.

And one of them was on TV yesterday saying that some of his own colleagues were throwing fuel on the fire. And Ilhan Omar, a member of The Squad, has a daughter participating in the protests and went to visit her.

You can almost actually physically see --

MITCHELL: Yeah.

HUNT: -- the divide in the Democratic Party.

MITCHELL: Yeah, and it's going to be a problem for President Biden, particularly if there is no end to the violence. That's why there's so much pressure from the Biden administration on Israel working with other countries in the Middle East to try to forge some type of agreement -- some type of ceasefire to keep Israel or try to convince Israel not to invade Rafah, for example.

It's not just about doing the right thing in Gaza, which I think that's the concern of a lot of elected officials, but it's also because the longer this goes on the worse spot it puts, particularly Democrats, in. Because again, on the right, Republicans aren't facing as much backlash from their base by taking kind of one very rigid side and not feeling the pressure to create nuance in the conversation. And now, that lack of nuance, I don't think is great for the discourse around these protests and what they're truly about and trying to reach compromise.

But unfortunately, it's another example of our politics more and more not being around reaching compromise.

HUNT: For people who -- and we should underscore as much as we're seeing violence this morning, that obviously very, very different from a peaceful protest and kind of the cause itself. But there are so many here and we saw this in the -- in the Michigan primary election with those who voted undeclared -- for whom this is an incredibly emotional issue -- what's been going on in Gaza. And that is a problem for the president going forward. It is, of course, something we're going to have to see if the White House continues to respond to.

Tia Mitchell, thank you very much for being with us this morning. I really appreciate it.

All right, let's take a detour now. Time now for sports. The 76ers keeping their season alive with a thrilling overtime win over the Knicks.

Andy Scholes has this morning's Bleacher Report. Andy, good morning.

ANDY SCHOLES, CNN SPORTS ANCHOR: Yeah, good morning, Kasie.

I'll tell you what, this is a rough morning for Knicks fans. They're having some Reggie Miller flashbacks right now. The Sixers -- they're the first team in nearly 30 years to be down six with under 30 seconds to go and come back to win a playoff game. And they can thank Tyrese Maxey for the win.

They were down six when Maxey is going to hit this three right here, and he gets fouled. The four-point play cuts the lead to just two. And after Josh Hart made one of his two free throws, Maxey coming up the court and pulls up from 35 feet and drills it to tie the game. The Madison Square Garden crowd just stunned.

We would go to overtime. In OT, the Knicks kind of lose track of Kelly Oubre Jr. there. He bobbles it and still somehow gets the bucket. That gave Philly the lead for good. They would win 112-106 to force a game six in Philly tomorrow.

Maxey, a playoff career-high 46 in the must-win game.

[05:55:04]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TYRESE MAXEY, GUARD, PHILADELPHIA 76ERS: So to my mind, right there, it was just find a way to survive. Like I said, the season is on the line. I mean, like, you know, I trust my work. I trust what I've -- what I've done all my life and just try to get to a spot and raise up and knock a shot down.

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SCHOLES: All right. In baseball, it would be a long night in Phoenix for the Dodgers and D-backs. The start of the game last night delayed for almost two hours because a swarm of bees took over the netting behind home plate.

So beekeeper Matt Hilton would eventually save the day, taking care of the bee problem with a scissor lift and vacuum. The crowd giving him a standing ovation. And as a reward for his hard work, Hilton then got to throw out the first pitch.

Kasie, Hilton -- he was in his 6-year-old's t-ball game and surprised Arizona 45 minutes away when he got the call. But what a night for him getting to go there and be the hero and get to throw out the first -- and he played to the crowd, which was just amazing.

HUNT: I am terrified of bees so he would definitely have been my hero in that situation. Congrats to him for getting a chance to do that.

Andy, thank you very much.

All right. Coming up next here, breaking overnight, violence erupts on the campus of UCLA as things turn heated between rival protest groups. We are live on the ground as this situation continues to unfold.

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