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Donald Trump's Hush Money Trial; Trump Erroneously Asserts Gag Order Hinders Him from Testifying; Trump Broke Gag Order Yet Again, According to Prosecution; Biden Addresses Campus Protests; Campus Demonstrations Have Not Affected Views on Israel, Says Biden; 2024 U.S. General Election; On January 6, Trump Claims He Requested a Ride from Secret Service to the Capitol; If Defeated, Trump is Not Ruling Out Using Political Violence; Pivotal Series Finale, Knicks Defeat 76ers in Game Six; Sixth Game: Pacers' Collective Effort Defeats Bucks; Bruins Defeated by Maple Leafs; To Compete in U.S. Open, Tiger Woods Accepted Special Exemption. Aired 5:30-6a ET

Aired May 03, 2024 - 05:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[05:30:00]

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KASIE HUNT, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Just a few seconds ago, China launched its lunar probe. There it goes. The unmanned rocket is a key milestone for China's push to become a dominant space power. The 53-day mission plans to take the rocket to the far side of the moon, where it will collect samples to bring back. China would be the only country to ever land there, and they hope to take astronauts to the moon by 2030. Look at that.

All right. Let's go now to our big news today. In just a few hours, Donald Trump's hush money trial resumes with the judge considering whether to hold the former president in contempt again for allegedly violating his gag order again.

Yesterday, jurors heard Trump's team attack Stormy Daniels' former attorney, Keith Davidson. Trying to paint him as someone with a long history of extracting money from celebrities. Insinuating he was extorting them. They also listened to a series of phone calls between Michael Cohen and Davidson about where the two can be heard discussing the deal.

Trump was asked yesterday whether he still plans to testify at his trial. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT AND U.S. REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, I'm not allowed to testify. I'm under a gag order, I guess, right? I can't even testify to that. No, we're going to be appealing the gag order. I -- I'd love to answer that question. It's a very easy question. The easiest question so far. But I'm not allowed to testify because this judge, who's totally conflicted, has me under an unconstitutional gag order. (END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: Very Trumpian. And of course that is nonsense. The gag order does not prevent him from taking the stand in his own defense.

Joining me now is CNN Legal Analyst Joey Jackson. Joey, good morning. this does seem to be a continuation of the reality that Donald Trump doesn't want to be seen as, I don't know, chicken -- chickening out of taking the stand. I'm interested to know, kind of, what you think about that. But the reality is this gag order does nothing whatsoever to prevent him from getting up there.

JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST AND CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: It does not, Kasie. Good morning to you. And so, the gag order relates to conduct he engages in outside of the courtroom, right, with respect to, as we very well, not chastising or mentioning witnesses, not mentioning jurors, not mentioning family members, et cetera.

He is permitted, of course, to attack Alvin Bragg, the district attorney of Manhattan. He's permitted to attack Biden. He's permitted to attack the judge as he regularly does. But with regard to his in- court conduct, of course, he has the right to testify. It's a fundamental right.

I believe at the end of the trial, right, when we get there, the judge will ask him whether he wants to testify. He will be given that opportunity. He will be given time to assess whether that's in his interest, which apparently, he's already assessed, which is why he's spinning that he cannot.

And so, yes, in the event that he wanted to testify and tell his story, he has the full and fair opportunity to do so. And to suggest otherwise is just a blatant misrepresentation.

HUNT: So, Joey, what do you expect to see on these additional gag order questions? The judge, again, did not make a decision yesterday about these four additional violations that the -- a prosecutor say Trump made. There was some, I thought, interesting back and forth around the difference between the jury and Michael Cohen.

[05:35:00]

Because one of these instances, unlike the previous nine that he was hit with, involves his claim that the jury is made up of 95 percent Democrats. But the judge seemed much less credulous around Michael Cohen and, sort of, told the prosecutor -- the defense like, OK, yes, move on. I get it. Michael Cohen's an issue.

JACKSON: So, I think there's a couple of ways to parse it out. The first way is that you can look at the issue, let's start with the jury, as that -- just this generic rendition of this liberal, according to him, jury that is not going to be fair. That, though, can be looked at the other way which is, you know, there has to be confidence in a system in order for what that system decides to be credited and taken seriously, that's number one. And number two, in the event that you're waxing poetic about how unfair they are. And if a jury verdict is rendered that's adverse to you and find you guilty, that can cause significant problems for jurors. If jurors are outed, right? I know they are working anonymously now, that doesn't always work. And the public becomes -- they become known to the public, they are in danger. Particularly if a person who has a bully pulpit, like the former president, and there's 70 million people are riled up, it could represent a danger.

So, whether you're specifically targeting a juror or a number of jurors, targeting them blankly because of the fact that it could instill a lack of confidence in your support to say, hey, you just did it because he was Trump. It's intimidation for the jury and it could be threatening to the jury. What -- so, that's a problem, right? And the judge can assess it that way.

The other thing as it relates to Cohen, that's well known, right? Obviously, Cohen likes to attack him, though he stopped to his credit. The president certainly likes to attack him back, though he must stop. And if he doesn't, he'll continue to be fine. But I think overall, Kasie, the judge is -- needs to and is, right, seemingly getting this under control because Trump has, kind of, tampered down the rhetoric.

He had a rally, as we know, on Wednesday. Didn't seem to be any violations of the gag order there. And so, maybe it's working. And I just think in terms of what the judge does, I think the judge will assess additional fines. I don't see jail in this instance, right, because of the timing of these potential violations. But if we move forward and Trump continues to challenge the judge, we might see something far different.

HUNT: Very interesting. All right. Joey Jackson for us on this Friday morning. Joey, thank you. I really appreciate it. Have a good weekend.

JACKSON: You're welcome.

HUNT: All right. President Biden finally weighing in on the nationwide campus protest after he stayed silent mostly for weeks.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, U.S. PRESIDENT: We are not an authoritarian nation where we silence people or squash dissent. The American people are heard. In fact, peaceful protest is in the best tradition of how Americans respond to consequential issues. But, but, neither are we a lawless country.

Threatening people, intimidating people, instilling fear in people is not peaceful protest. It's against the law. Dissent is essential to democracy, but dissent must never lead to disorder.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: The president went on to say there is no place for hate of any kind in America, and also made it clear the demonstrations are not going to change his policies toward Israel. Joining us now to discuss is "Washington Post" White House reporter Tyler Pager, who has been chronicling this president for them for quite some time. Tyler, good morning. Thank you for being here. So, you -- kind of, you wrote a piece, kind of, detailing just how careful President Biden has been around these protests. Can you help us understand why it took him so long to get to what we saw yesterday and what finally pushed him over the edge?

TYLER PAGER, WHITE HOUSE REPORTER, THE WASHINGTON POST: Yes, I think there's been discussions with the president and his aides for weeks about these protests. And we've seen the White House, not the president himself, but the president's aides come down pretty hard against the violence that has spawned from these protests, releasing statements, but we haven't seen that same, sort of, statement from the president until yesterday.

And what's remarkable about this is given the protests have been going on for weeks, it was an unscheduled appearance. The White House alerted the press that he was going to be speaking just minutes before he actually did. Showing that this wasn't something that was in the works for a while, but something that, sort of, came at the last minute or in the last few hours before he made that speech.

And so, I think ultimately, they felt -- the president felt that these were protests that were consuming the nation, you know, mostly taking place on college campuses. But saying that everyone was consuming and watching and seeing the images from Columbia University to UCLA across the country, this was something that was impacting the country. And I think, they felt the president, as the leader of the nation, needed to come out and address it.

But as you said, there are -- he's been really careful to toe the line between, you know, reaffirming American's rights to protest while also being clear that he does not support any, sort of, violence that we have seen breaking out on college campuses.

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HUNT: How does the White House look at, I mean, obviously, the president's running for re-election, right? And his opponent, likely opponent, Donald -- presumptive opponent, Donald Trump, is out there attacking him about this and saying this is further evidence of a lack of law and order in the country.

How does the Biden campaign view these images? I mean, listening to his speech, the decision to put him out there suggests to me, they see it as something that is going to damage their general election prospects in the fall. Of course, their base is honestly very much behind these protesters. That seems like a really tough place to be.

PAGER: And that's why he's trying to toe that line really carefully, right? Trying to be clear that he supports the right for people to protest, but condemns any, sort of, violence that we're seeing. And that is one of the challenges of being an incumbent running for president, is that your challenger is able to throw anything that's happening in the country at your feet and say, this is your fault. And so, the White House, the campaign is trying to make very clear where the president stands. But you're right, any sign -- any scenes of disorder, of chaos are complicating for the president. Whether or not he's directly involved in what's happening, he's a leader of the nation.

And so, people vote based on how they're feeling, how they -- what direction the country is headed. And the president is often blamed rightly or wrongly for that. And so, they're very conscious of that and trying to strike that balance very carefully.

HUNT: Yes. We've also heard the White House say this isn't an issue that people vote on. It's not in their top set of issues. They still believe that?

PAGER: Yes. So, what you hear is very interesting. They are largely saying, you know, when they look at polls, particularly of young people, this is not the most animating issue for them. They say abortion, the economy, you know, those issues are what -- are going to drive people to make the decision when it comes to November.

But that's not the case in every state and in every community. And when you look at the map, there are states the President needs to win, the chief among them being Michigan. And Michigan is a state with a huge Arab-American and Muslim-American population. And there are some concerns that this issue is more salient for those voters, where the margins are really small.

And so, writ large, the Biden campaign and Democrats feel confident that this is not the most animating issue for their base of voters. But they don't deny that this is an issue that does matter to people who could make the difference at the margins.

HUNT: For sure. All right. Tyler Pager for us. Tyler, thank you.

PAGER: Thanks so much.

HUNT: I really appreciate it.

All right. Coming up next here, Donald Trump refusing to say whether he will accept the outcome of the 2024 election.

Plus, the New York Knicks advancing to round two of the NBA Playoffs. We'll get the bleacher report ahead.

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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT AND U.S. REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Remember the person that said, I attacked a Secret Service agent in the front of the car. It's not my deal. I'm a lover, not a fighter. This is crazy stuff. I sat in the back. And you know what I did say? I said, I'd like to go down there because I see a lot of people walking down. They said, sir, it's better if you don't. I said, well, I'd like to. Better if you don't. All right. Whatever you guys' think is fine. That was the whole tone of the conversation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: Donald Trump acknowledging on Wednesday that he did ask his Secret Service detail to take him to the Capitol on January 6th, 2021. A disputed but central part of the January 6th Committee's findings on the president's actions that day. A day that Trump seems to be suggesting could be in the cards again if he doesn't win in the fall.

This is what he told the "Milwaukee Journal Sentinel" in an interview this week. "If everything's honest, I'll gladly accept the results." If, if, if everything's honest. I don't change on that. If it's not, you have to fight for the right of the country.

Joining me now is CNN National Political Reporter Daniel Strauss. Daniel, good morning to you.

DANIEL STRAUSS, CNN NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER: Good morning.

HUNT: This is a significant admission --

STRAUSS: Yes.

HUNT: -- from the President. That he did want to go down to the Capitol on that day, and it is part of a, sort of, sea change in how he is trying to get or how he is talking to his followers about what happened that day. He now has embraced the people who were there as the January 6th hostages. He opens some of his rallies with a national anthem tribute to those people, and now this.

Plus, these interviews where he is essentially saying, sure. If I win, it will be a fair election and there will be no political violence. What do you see in these words, because I do have this sense that before January 6th, there was not enough weight given to the word that we were hearing from Donald Trump that led to the -- what we actually saw unfold that day.

STRAUSS: Yes, look, and it's a herald of 2020 where we are probably going to be in a situation in November where if Donald Trump does not win or does not see the election results that he is looking for on election night, there will be a, sort of, a gray period where he won't admit defeat. And his followers will still concede that or still argue that the election is rigged or somehow tainted and therefore, once again, we'll be in this sort of, like, electoral purgatory where it's not really clear who, as tradition usually dictates, who the winner of the 2024 elections are.

HUNT: I mean, one critical difference if, in fact, Biden were to win is that he is the one that actually holds the offices of the presidency.

STRAUSS: Yes.

HUNT: Controls the levers of power, including access and discussions with the Pentagon, for example, which became a critical question mark around the response or lack thereof for those interminable hours, frankly, if you were up on the Hill, that no one came after the mob stormed the Capitol.

Let's just remind everyone of what Donald Trump told "Time Magazine" also in an interview that was conducted last month, released earlier this week.

[05:50:00]

The reporter asked, Mr. President, you said you weren't worried about political violence in connection with the November election. You said, I think we're going to win and there won't be violence. What if you don't win, sir, the reporter asks?

Trump says, well, I do think we're going to win. And if we don't win, you know, it depends. It always depends on the fairness of an election. I don't believe they'll be able to do the things they did the last time. I don't think they'll be able to get away with it.

In terms of the things they did last time, I just think we should underscore that Donald Trump took these claims to courts across the country and the courts rejected the idea that there was a sufficient level of fraud to change the outcome of the 2020 election. He -- it does seem like he's already saying it will not be fair if I lose?

STRAUSS: Right, right. And look, this is classic Trump. He says the quiet part out loud. He makes clear of his intentions at any given moment in time. There is no, sort of, secret plan here. It's pretty clear that he wants to, or with these comments, he's suggesting that he is going to encourage his supporters to act out in some way if he does not win this election.

HUNT: What's your sense of, kind of, where some of these people are right now in terms of this -- the people who were specifically motivated around January 6th included some of the farthest fringe members, right? Because there are plenty of, you know, run of day-to- day Trump supporters, Americans who voted for Trump, who maybe they showed up on the mall to see the president speak that day.

But we know that there were elements inside that were organized. You know, they showed up with zip ties. These groups like the Proud Boys, like the Oath Keepers. What is your understanding of how those groups are interacting with the current Trump campaign?

STRAUSS: I mean, it's the -- it isn't as visible as I've seen with other campaigns like Marjorie Taylor Greene in -- when she was running for Congress. She would often be escorted to events with the Three Percenters, which is a far-right group.

But I think it all falls in line with the larger based Trump voter. And I've talked to a lot of pollsters about this. A lot of Republican pollsters who say they -- that his base support does not move. They will not move no matter what. They will do what he says, and they will follow only his assessment of a situation. So, in this situation, like if he -- it shouldn't be much of a surprise that there were a large group of Trump supporters who gathered on January 6th. And it wouldn't be a surprise if he, again, encourage his voters to come to D.C. around the election or right after.

HUNT: All right. Daniel Strauss for us on this Friday. Cheerful conversation.

STRAUSS: Always.

HUNT: But thank you for being here for it. I appreciate it.

All right. Time now for sports. The New York Knicks moving on to the next round of the NBA Playoffs after they took down the 76ers in Philadelphia. Carolyn Manno has this morning's bleach report. Carolyn, good morning.

CAROLYN MANNO, CNN SPORTS CORRESPONDENT: Hey, good morning. Well, a lot has been made of Knicks fans invading the Wells Fargo Center in Philadelphia for games three and four of this series. Sixers owner, Michael Rubin, went as far as to buy more than 2,000 tickets to give away to Sixers fans for last night's game.

But none of that seemed to phase New York star Jalen Brunson, who played in that very same arena in college at Villanova. He was a man on a mission. Scoring 14 of his 41 points in the fourth quarter. Brunson also had 12 assists for the game. Hitting Josh Hart for the last one in what became the game winning three. With 24 seconds left to play, New York is on to the second round with a thrilling one-18, one-15 win.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JALEN BRUNSON, NEW YORK KNICKS GUARD: We were focused. We knew that, I mean, this wasn't going to be easy. And I mean, even with the lead that we had, you know, we tried to obviously play with the lead, but we knew that they were going to keep fighting. I mean, every game has been like this. So, it doesn't matter really how you start. It doesn't matter how you finish it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MANNO: Damian Lillard back in the lineup for the Bucks against the Pacers. He put up a game high 28, but that was not enough. Indiana got a total team effort in this one. Obi Toppin gave them 21. T.J. McConnell adding 20 more as the Pacers win game six, 120 to 98, sending them to their first Eastern Conference semifinal in a decade.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TYRESE HALIBURTON, INDIANA PACERS GUARD: We just wanted to win, you know what I mean? I think that was our biggest thing is we're going to come out here with some urgency. Obviously, they're playing desperate. But, you know, we had to play desperate, too. We didn't want to go back to Milwaukee. We wanted to win tonight. So, we were able to do that. A lot of guys chipped in.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MANNO: Emotions look to have gotten the better of Bucks guard Patrick Beverley late in the game. Cameras catching him chucking a ball at a Pacers fan in the stands. Not clear exactly what led up to this moment, but you can be sure that the league office will be asking a lot of questions about it.

[05:55:00]

Two more playoff games on the schedule tonight. The Cavaliers can close out the Magic at 7:00 eastern. Then it's game six between the Clippers and the Mavs at 9:30.

In hockey, Toronto clawing their way back from being down three games to one against Boston. The Maple Leafs goaltending outstanding. They also got a pair of goals from William Nylander in the two-one win who had to actually sit the first three games of the series due to an undisclosed illness, but he was back on fire.

Toronto now heading back to Boston for tomorrow night's decisive game seven. The Florida Panthers awaiting the winners here, and that's the same team that Boston blew a three-one lead against in last year's first round after their record setting season.

And Tiger Woods is going to play in the U.S. Open for the first time since 2020. The 48-year-old accepted a special exemption to play at the famed Pinehurst in North Carolina in June. His five-year exemption for that major, which was earned with his 2019 Masters win expired this year. But he does have a lifetime exemption for the Masters and the PGA Championship which he says he plans to play later in the month.

He only has two starts this year, Kasie. The latest being at the Masters. He did make that record breaking 24th consecutive cut that we're all following. Unfortunately, he couldn't do much more than that, but still continuing to play this year.

HUNT: Always fun to watch. All right. Carolyn, thank you very much. Have a great weekend.

MANNO: You too.

HUNT: Coming up next here, day 11 of the Trump hush money trial as the judge considers whether the former president violated his gag order again.

Plus, President Biden paving the way for dreamers to get health care.

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