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Hope Hicks Testified in Trump Trial; Trump's VP Candidates; Sen. Chris Coons (D-DE) is Interviewed about the Israel-Hamas War; Kristi Noem Dog Controversy. Aired 6:30-7a ET

Aired May 06, 2024 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[06:31:24]

KASIE HUNT, CNN ANCHOR: All right, in just a few hours, Donald Trump's hush money trial will resume in New York City. On Friday, with Trumps 2016 campaign press secretary and White House communications director Hope Hicks took the stand and through her testimony prosecutors showed jurors the transcript of the infamous "Access Hollywood" tape that almost up ended - you would have thought it would have upended Trump's run for the White House. It did not, of course. Before cross- examination, Hicks began crying and appeared to become overwhelmed. She finished her testimony after a brief break.

After court on Friday, Trump tried to clear up a lie he had told the day before that his gag order prohibited him from testifying in the trial.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Will the gag order stop you from testifying?

DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT AND 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: No, it won't stop me from testifying. The gag order is not to testify. The gag order stops me from talking about people and responding when they say things about me. We have people saying things about me and I'm not allowed to respond. So, this judge has taken away my constitutional right.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: All right, or panel's back. Matt Gorman is still here. We're also joined by former senior adviser to Hillary Clinton's 2016 campaign, Karen Finney, and NPR host Ayesha Rascoe.

Thank you very much for being here.

Matt Gorman, let me start with you because Hope Hicks, of course, this sort of fascinating figure, what did she make of how - her crying on Friday seemed to really be related to something she had said under prosecution questioning. She started to cry under cross, but that it seemed at least related to her mind of giving up Trump a little bit to what - what they wanted. I mean she's really - it's kind of hard to overstate how striking a figure she cut during this period of time with the campaign, and how close she was to Trump.

MATT GORMAN, FORMER SENIOR ADVISER TO TIM SCOTT'S PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN: She's a unique figure in Trump world (ph) in many ways. She predated him coming on the campaigns. She worked for Ivanka Trump previously. And she's someone who has not sold out. She didn't write a book. She's not - has - doesn't have a cable contract. She, after the White House, after all that stuff happened, she just kind of went back and is kind of working in the private sector now.

And, you know, she has a lot of kind of inside knowledge, especially those early days on the campaign. So, no matter what she was going to say, it was going to be a very compelling testimony and very unique than someone say like a Michael Cohen. Now that the testimony is very compelling.

HUNT: Let's put up what she had to say, that this was at the very end of her questioning by prosecutors. So, the prosecutors asked, "did Mr. Trumps say anything else about this issue when he told you that Michael made the payment? Did he say anything about the timing of the news reporting regarding" - "oh," Hope says. "He - yes, he wanted to know," he, Trump, "how it was playing, and my thoughts and opinion about this story versus having the story, a different kind of story, before the campaign had Michael not made that payment. And I think Mr. Trump's opinion was, it was better to be dealing with it now, and that it would have been bad to have that story come out before the election."

Karen.

KAREN FINNEY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: So, here's one of the things that's interesting about Hope Hicks. She also, though, has a lawyer that is not paid by Donald Trump. So, she clearly knew that in order to be free to tell the truth, it would be in her own best interests, her own best legal interests. You have to imagine she's been watching others who have maybe not had such a great fate when they've tied their fate directly to Trump. So, I thought that was an interesting point.

You know, it's been - I'll tell you, having been on the other side of it in 2016, it's been very interesting to watch because, again, the barrage, if we heard the testimony about how, you know, David Pecker, it wasn't - you know, it was during the primary and during the general election, the attacks on Hillary, the attacks on any of his opponents, you sort of knew it at the time what was going on, but there was no proof.

[06:35:12]

So to hear this play out in court, at this moment, is, you know, it's troubling, actually, because, to be honest, I mean, think about those last days of the campaign, and with - I know we've talked about this quite a bit, if it had come out, it would have impacted the election because we all know that, you know, his wife is the one who saved them after that "Access Hollywood" tape came out, right?

HUNT: Yes. FINNEY: It was very - we were all watching to see, what is she going to say. And when she's, well, it's just boys' locker room talk, then it was sort of the permission structure that female voters needed.

HUNT: That a lot of people needed. Yes.

Ayesha, it's wonderful to have you here.

The next up potential witnesses, we have Michael Cohen, we have Stormy Daniels and also potentially Karen McDougal. So, we're still waiting to see who prosecutors are going to call.

I mean, what are you watching for as Stormy Daniel's takes the stand potentially, or Michael Cohen, particularly as it relates to whether or not this trial is going to break through with voters?

AYESHA RASCOE, NPR HOST, "WEEKEND EDITION SUNDAY" AND UP FIRST": I mean, I think that when you have someone - like Michael Cohen, I think is obviously a complicated character, to say the least.

HUNT: That's a good way to put it.

RASCOE: I think that people - you know, I don't know if he will break through. I think Stormy Daniels, like, I mean, I think she could be - make a very compelling case. What I would be interested in, though, is Trump's reaction, because I feel like that is what could actually be the thing - like, especially with Stormy Daniel's, because he's had such horrible things to say about her. He clearly gets so worked up when he sees someone, especially, let's be real, women talking about him in a certain way. You could see him coming out and saying some very nasty things. And I think that, at times, will remind women voters of the things that - or the problems that they we have with Donald Trump at times.

HUNT: Yes, although, if he does that, he's certainly going to be violating that gag order since attracting -

RASCOE: Well, you know, he doesn't always follow the rules though.

HUNT: Yes.

FINNEY: No, really, I -

HUNT: Yes.

FINNEY: (INAUDIBLE).

GORMAN: I don't know anything about that. Yes, I've never heard that before.

HUNT: All right, let's talk about this too because over the weekend the Trump Veep stakes really heating up. Several Republicans on his VP short list hitting the Sunday morning talk shows. South Carolina Senator Tim Scott refusing to say whether he'll accept the election results if Biden wins in November.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, Senator, will you commit to accepting the election results of 2024, bottom line?

SEN. TIM SCOTT (R-SC): At the end of the day, the 47th president of the United States will be President Donald Trump. And I'm excited to get back to low inflation, low unemployment and high (INAUDIBLE).

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Wait, wait, Senator, yes or no - yes or no, will you accept the election results of 2024 no matter who wins?

SCOTT: That is my statement.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: That's his statement.

North Dakota Governor Doug Burgum tried to put a positive spin on Trump's legal troubles.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. DOUG BURGUM (R-ND): A filing error is not something that would affect any American. People that are trying to put food on the table and gas in the car, it doesn't affect them. And so it is - this is why the outcome of this trial is not going to change a lot of people's minds. It might actually, in some ways, help President Trump because it reinforces the idea that the Biden administration is willing to use lawfare to try to attack a political opponent.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: All right, the panel is back.

What do we think, Karen?

FINNEY: Well, you know what's interesting about this? We've always heard, right, that the most folks, it's an audience of one when you're talking about Donald Trump because he's watching. So, clearly, you know, they sort of had there - this was definitely like a "Shark Tank" weekend, right, because they had their time with the donors, a little pressing the flesh, and then, you know, you get day - you know, TV, let's see how you do.

I mean, you know, he's parading all of them, and they know what the stakes are. They know what he's looking for, right? He wants a vice president. It was clear in Tim Scott's answer. Kind of shameful for a United States senator who does take an oath to defend the Constitution in the United States of America. But pshaw (ph). You know, to - to not be able to answer a pretty simple question. But again, they both knew, with him watching, the stakes are high if you want that VP slot.

HUNT: Well, and the reality, Ayesha, in terms of what Tim Scott's doing there is that this has become one of these litmus test questions that every single one of these contenders is being asked and clearly Trump is watching what the answers are. RASCOE: Yes. Absolutely. And they know -- and Tim Scott knew that he had to say, well, you know, Trump's going to win. He could not say that he will accept anything other than a Trump win.

I think that also these, you know, VP candidates understand that they can't be - they have to be out there, but they can't have too much star power, right? Like, Trump wants someone who can kind of blend in and defend him with the full might of, you know, of their abilities and also who can just sing his praises in whatever he does, they can spin it to the best of their ability.

[06:40:03]

HUNT: What do you think the criteria are?

GORMAN: It's almost as if Trump hosted a reality show like - and - previously -

FINNEY: Huh.

GORMAN: Where certain people would, you know, I forget the name, "Apprentice" or something, you know. And so, but, like, it's - it's very interesting, right, because, again, the Sunday shows, they're not doing it because they want to hang out with Jake and Dana. Even though we all love to hang out with Jake and Dana.

HUNT: We love Jake and Dana.

GORMAN: We love Jake and Dana.

HUNT: We love Jake and Dana.

GORMAN: But, like, there is a - there is a - I kind of go back to what I said before, there's a unprecedentedness where you're changing the channel and you're seeing a lot of times they - folks answering the same questions different ways. Every Sunday is kind of a new slate of folks. You saw again people all on stage with him. You have that - basically that class photo, so to speak, from Saturday night. It - it is a way where you're having this kind of contest, if you will, play out in real time and in front of a live audience, so to speak.

HUNT: Yes, it's - it is a really remarkable situation. I'm interested in the Doug Burgum bubble too, by the way. We'll - but we have to take a break though.

All right, coming up next, President Biden pausing an ammunition shipment to Israel without explanation. We're going to talk about that in more with Democratic Senator Chris Coons of Delaware.

Plus, former special prosecutor Nathan Wade speaking publicly for the first time about his affair with Fulton County DA Fani Willis.

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[06:45:36]

HUNT: Welcome back.

This morning, Palestinians are fleeing eastern Rafah after Israel's Defense Forces dropped leaflets in the area, ordering their immediate evacuation ahead of a planned military operation.

This, as the CIA Director Bill Burns plans to remain in Doha today, despite previous plans to go to Israel, a source tells CNN.

That extended stay coming as the latest round of ceasefire and hostage talks have stalled with little sign of a breakthrough.

Joining me now is Democratic Senator Chris of Delaware. He serves on the Foreign -- Senate Foreign Relations Committee and is a national co-chair for the Biden-Harris campaign.

Senator, good morning. Thanks for being here.

SEN. CHRIS COONS (D-DE): Good morning. Great to be on with you.

HUNT: Senator, let's start with what we are learning overnight here about these leaflets that were dropped causing Palestinians to evacuate. It suggests that Israel is preparing to make some sort of incursion into Rafah.

What would be your message? What is the Biden administration's message to Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu about doing that?

COONS: The message is delivered to Prime Minister Netanyahu several times in personal meetings is that he has to observe the rules of war to provide for civilians to relocate, to provide for humanitarian aid to get in. Of course, Israel is justified in going after Hamas, but they have to do so in a way that allows for the relocation of civilians.

So the dropping of these leaflets is yet another example, hopefully, of the IDF continuing to follow the rules of war. But what I am more optimistic about and also more concerned about frankly, Kasie, is whether or not this hostage deal will come to fruition. It's been more than 200 days that families from countries around the world have prayed and hoped for their loved ones to be released by Hamas.

I've met with Rachel and Jon Goldberg-Polin repeatedly. Their son, Hersh was just revealed by Hamas to still be alive beneath Gaza.

And as you've said in your opening, Bill Burns, our CIA director, continues to be in the region, trying to close this deal between Hamas and Israel, a deal that was complicated by Hamas directly attacking the Kerem Shalom gate through which humanitarian aid has been flowing into Gaza.

HUNT: Yeah, I was going to ask you because I know when we were corresponding about this earlier in the weekend, there was a sense of -- a relative sense of optimism about where things stand. And this morning, clearly, that sense seems to have faded.

Has it? Is it much less likely that we're going to get a deal now? And is what you identify the reason for that? What else is going on with it?

COONS: This is a very difficult deal because you've got elements in the Netanyahu government who do not want a ceasefire and obviously you've got in Hamas, a murderous terrorist organization that launched the attack acts of October 7th and many elements of which do not want to see a hostage deal. They don't want to release the hostages. They don't want frankly, make progress towards peace.

So you've got combatants on both sides who have some elements who don't want to see this deal. The United States has applied significant pressure on Qatar to expel the Hamas leadership if they don't come forward and we've applied significant pressure to the Netanyahu government to be respectful, responsive, and to come forward. And there's been tens of thousands of Israelis protesting in the streets for a hostage release deal.

So what would be most positive about this is that there'll be a more than 40-day ceasefire. It would allow for the distribution of badly needed humanitarian aid to confront the famine conditions in the north of Gaza.

HUNT: Yeah.

COONS: And it would begin the steps towards a regional peace, something many of us have worked hard on, that would move forward Saudi-Israeli reconciliation.

HUNT: Senator, there were reports over the weekend as well that the U.S. had paused an ammunition shipment to the Israelis.

Is that your understanding of what's happened? It hasn't been denied by the Biden administration. And is that the right move?

COONS: I have no more information about that that's public than what's been reported. And I so far have simply been told this was a logistics issue. But it does signal that there are grave concerns on the part of many of us.

It is a reminder that many have raised concerns about the conduct of what might be the last phase of this war in Gaza, where there's more than 1 million refugees in Rafah, they have to be allowed to move out of the way of a large-scale attack.

[06:50:03]

The Netanyahu government has threatened over and over that if Hamas does not release the hostages, they will go ahead with a full-blown attack on Rafah. I am modestly encouraged by what you just reported this morning. Leaflets are being dropped, a small number of individuals are being relocated, 100,000 peoples, not a small number of people, but in the context of Rafah, it is.

I continue to be concerned about and to work on hostage issues. As we discussed, Kasie, Senator Rounds and I got a bill passed through the Senate last week that would stop taxing American hostages.

Evan Gershkovich is still in prison in Russia a year on. Jason Rezaian, a "Washington Post" reporter --

HUNT: Yeah.

COONS: -- was in prison in Iran for 18 months. They are reminders of how hostages are held around the world, not just by Hamas, but by other governments.

And that Americans continue, believe it or not, to be taxed by their own government when they are wrongfully detained or held hostage.

HUNT: Yeah, that is -- that is pretty remarkable. I'm glad that you took a moment to underscore that.

Senator, can I ask you also about the campus protests related to this? President Biden came out late last week and condemned instances of violence.

Do you think that he is making the right balance in terms of how he is discussing free speech rights and violence on campus? And did he wait too long to come out and make that speech?

COONS: Kasie, I think this is just common sense, which is that in the United States, we respect free speech. It's important that people of all ages and backgrounds are able to express their political views, particular on something that's become as contentious as the war in Gaza.

But when that free speech borders over into violence and intimidation, when students can go to campus, classes or participate in graduation without physical violence, without threats and intimidation, that's wrong. And so, many have spoken out about it. I think that's the right balance to strike in a country that's committed to free speech and where there were protests on many campuses that were peaceful. But in recent days, we've seen in a few cases those protests become violent and interfere with schooling and education, frankly, in some cases, acquiring school administrations, college administrations to call in local police forces.

HUNT: Yet, Senator, do you think that reality of what's going on, the pictures, the way it's unfolding, does that help Donald Trump's election chances in the fall?

COONS: Look, there is a sharp contrast between what Donald Trump says every day about his willingness to respect the election, how he views the January 6 riot that storm the Capitol. His intention to release those who've been convicted of writing and have insurrection of an assault on police as opposed to campus protests that have happened recently for a few weeks. They are not a fundamental threat to our democracy.

Donald Trump is the only president in the last century who's in any way encouraged violence related to our politics that threatened to overturn the results of an election. That's a far more significant issue than the ongoing current focus on whether or not on a few campuses, either rioters, protesters exceeded what was expected of them in terms of the balance of free speech and action, and whether or not police response was overly heavy handed.

There's been a lot of focus on campus protests. But bluntly, when I was up in New Hampshire, this weekend campaigning for the Biden-Harris campaign, what I heard from the vast majority of folks I heard from and met with was concerns about cost of living, reduce it -- the reduction, forgive me --

HUNT: Yeah.

COONS: -- of prescription drug prices, investment in new manufacturing, the jobs report. That's what was on the mind of most of the voters I met with this weekend.

HUNT: Yeah. Very briefly, Senator, before I let you go, we were discussing earlier, Senator Tim Scott not saying yes or no as to whether he would --

COONS: Yeah.

HUNT: -- accept the results of the election.

This, of course, after Donald Trump gave an interview to "Time" where he said that there wouldn't be political violence, assuming because he's going to win the election, basically raising the specter of violence in the effect -- event that he loses.

And, Congresswoman Debbie Dingell said here are a few -- about an hour ago that she's concerned about another January 6 type event in the event Donald Trump loses.

Do you share that concern?

COONS: Well, there's lots of folks watching cable TV who are worried and who are anxious, and who are concerned. And we do a lot of talking on these shows that increases that worry and concern. And for folks who are worried, I've got a simple antidote, which is get out there and get active and get engaged.

[06:54:53]

The events I went to this weekend in New Hampshire from Claremont to Dover, from Concord to Manchester to Portsmouth, there were lots of folks getting engaged in the local campaigns up and down the state of New Hampshire, where there's a lot at stake: control of the state house, who's going to be the next governor --

HUNT: Yeah.

COONS: -- whether or not New Hampshire, which has often been a swing state, will come out and vote for President Biden and Vice President Harris.

I do think there's lots of reasons to be concerned. If you read that "Time Magazine" interview by Donald Trump, it is alarming. He says appalling things on a regular basis. Sunday was Yom HaShoah, the remembrance of the Holocaust Day. And for President Trump, former President Trump to casually compare the current president and his administration to the Nazi regime is just out of bounds and completely unfounded.

His rhetoric is out of bounds. And I hope folks who are paying attention and who are concerned will get engaged and get active in this campaign.

HUNT: All right. Senator Chris Coons for us this morning -- Senator, thanks so much for being here. I really appreciate it.

COONS: Thank you, Kasie.

HUNT: All right, 55 minutes past the hour. Here's your morning roundup.

This morning in Manhattan, a status conference in New Jersey. Senator Bob Menendez's federal criminal case. That hearing expected to focus on evidence Menendez has requested for his defense against corruption charges.

Former prosecutor Nathan Wade speaking out for the first time about his affair with Fulton County DA Fani Willis. As American as apple pie. Wade, who stepped down as special prosecutor in the Georgia election interference case, says he regrets a private matter became the focal point of such an important prosecution.

A significant milestone for Boeings' spaceflight program. The Starliner spacecraft carrying two NASA astronauts into orbit could take off as soon as tonight at 10:34 Eastern Time from Cape Canaveral in Florida.

All right, let's turn now to this. South Dakota Governor Kristi Noem's problem continues to dog her.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, it's the first show of spring, so we'll start tonight with puppy murder. In a new book, South Dakota Governor Kristi Noem revealed that she once shot a dog that was untrainable. That's insane. If a dog is untrainable, you don't shoot it, you give it to President Biden.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: Noem can't seem to get past the backlash for that story in her upcoming memoir about the time she shot and killed her dog, Cricket. But now she seems to be focusing on President Biden's dog. This was something she said this weekend.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. KRISTI NOEM (R-SD): Joe Biden's dog has attacked 24 Secret Service people. So, how many people is enough people to be attacked and dangerously hurt before you make a decision on a dog and what you do with it.

MARGARET BRENNAN, CBS NEWS ANCHOR: Well, he's not living at the White House anymore.

NOEM: That's - that's a question that the president should be held accountable to. That's what the president should be accountable to.

BRENNAN: You're saying he should be shot?

NOEM: What is - what is the number?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FINNEY: Wow. OK. I mean, I get the tactic, right? We are used to seeing conservatives deflect and make it about Biden. But it's like, sister, you shot your dog and I think a goat or something. She - it was also - it's like, you know. And, by the way, the fact that this made it into her memoir, let's - right, so it was a, you know, there was a draft that went to an editor, that went through lots of other processes, and it still stayed in the book? No - did nobody phone her and say, yes, let's not put the dog killing piece in there.

RASCOE: Well, I never thought that you'd see the day where someone who like wants to be VP clearly is like running on killing puppies. Like, it's just like a very weird - or killing dogs. Like, it's just - that is not as American as apple pie. Like, that is very -

HUNT: OK, for the record he was talking about an affair.

GORMAN: I mean it's rare. I was on here last Monday and we were talking about it then. It's rare to have the story carry over a week and we're still talking about the darn dog. But, I mean, it's, to kind of Karen's point, like, you know, Karen and I are used to like cleaning up kind of when your boss says something off the cuff, you know, and it's - and this has been something that's been planned. Like you wrote multiple drafts of this and -

HUNT: Well, and she also wrote this, which I hadn't - hadn't seen - so this is also in the book, right? So, this is why she was asked about this. She writes in the book, quote, "what would I do if I was president on the first day in office in 2025? Thanks for asking. I happen to have a list. The first thing" - OK, so this is like, she's president of the United States.

FINNEY: Yes.

HUNT: OK. With - she could do anything she wants.

FINNEY: Right.

HUNT: The first thing is make sure Joe Biden's dog was nowhere on the grounds. And then she writes, "Commander, say hello to Cricket for me," end quote.

FINNEY: Yes. So we all know -

HUNT: But Cricket, again, is the dog that she took out back in shot.

FINNEY: A hundred percent. And so she's more focused on, how do I make this about Joe Biden than acknowledging maybe killing a puppy is a - not something - like you said, not something (INAUDIBLE).

RASCOE: Well, Trump doesn't like dogs. So, I think maybe -

FINNEY: OK.

RASCOE: He likes to say, you went down like a dog, or this like a dog and all this stuff. So maybe she - this is clearly her - I think she wanted to sound tough and like, I am - yes, I am a woman, but I will do those hard things.

[07:00:08]

I'll be the enforcer.

HUNT: Yes, but she - it didn't not - a - if that was what was going on - I mean the Trump team has really been very put - I mean they don't want anything to do with this anymore.

RASCOE: I think so. I think so. I think it didn't work.

HUNT: Y Es.

RASCOE: I think she should have ran it past them first and, I mean, I don't think Trump likes this type of bad - this type of bad press.

HUNT: All right, I think -

RASCOE: But, yes.

HUNT: I think I'm going to have to start collecting everyone's dog photos so that when we wrap up these segments, instead of talking about tragedies, we're, like, enjoying our own canine friends. I'm sorry, it's 7:00. We have to wrap up here.

Thanks to all of you for joining us. I'm Kasie Hunt. CNN NEWS CENTRAL starts right now.

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