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Joe Biden to Speak on Holocaust Remembrance Day; Antisemitism on the Rise; Donald Trump Says He Is Willing to Go to Jail. Aired 6:30-7a ET

Aired May 07, 2024 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[06:30:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KASIE HUNT, CNN ANCHOR: All right, welcome back to CNN THIS MORNING. It is Holocaust Remembrance Day. It's a day to remember the 6 million Jews who were murdered by the Nazis during World War II. Never forget is the message President Biden plans to try and drive that home when he delivers what the White House is characterizing as one of the most consequential speeches of his presidency, set to unfold just a few hours on Capitol Hill, six months out from the election.

And the president, of course, finds himself confronted by a war in Gaza that divides his base and threatens his reelection prospects. He is also, in this speech, expected to address the dangerous spike in antisemitism across America since that war in Gaza began.

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KARINE JEAN-PIERRE, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: He will speak to the horrors of October 7, when Hamas unleashed the deadliest day for Jewish people since the Holocaust. And he will speak to how, since October 7, we've seen an alarming rise in antisemitism in the U.S., in our cities, our communities, and our -- and on our campuses.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: On our campuses. The White House press secretary, of course, referencing the recent wave of pro-Palestinian protests that have gripped U.S. colleges.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: At least 43 protesters arrested Monday at UCLA and the school forced to shift all classes to remote learning. Many of these protests have directly targeted Jewish students in Israel. An example is this Intifada banner that was hung from a building at Columbia University. That is, of course, a call for uprising against Israel.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNKNOWN: How many kids did you kill today? How many kids did you kill today?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: This week, protesters interrupting commencement ceremonies at the University of Michigan with anti-Israel chants, and similar scenes have played out at other graduation events across the country. CNN's chief political correspondent Dana Bash joins me now. She, of course, also the anchor of Inside Politics. Dana, good morning to you.

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning.

HUNT: This is, the White Howes has characterized this, they've been talking about it for the last week or so, as a major moment for President Biden at a time when we are faced with rising antisemitism. I have been shocked by some of the things I have seen on the campus of my alma mater in the course of covering these protests. What does this speech mean for the president, but also for Jewish Americans?

BASH : Look, my understanding is that the president is going to be kind of historian and educator in chief largely in his speech today, which is really important. A lot of what we are seeing, not just on college campuses but beyond college campuses, is comes from either a lack of education or a consumption of misinformation, disinformation.

And so, what we are going to hear him talk about today, I am told, is what actually did happen, not just in the Holocaust. He's going to be at the Holocaust Memorial Museum, but --

HUNT: He's actually going to be at the Capitol. The event is sponsored by the Holocaust Museum. I apologize.

BASH : Thank you. No, no. Thank you for -- for correcting that. But it's about the Holocaust, and it's in conjunction with what the mission is of that -- that institution, which is not just to never forget, not just to tell people 6 million Jews were murdered, but also what happened leading up to it. And look, I mean, I've now done two hour specials on antisemitism for CNN, the first of which was back in 2022, well before --

[06:35:00]

HUNT: All of this.

BASH : -- all of this. And I learned a lot. And I'm the granddaughter of survivors. And the fact that, you know, it is so steeped, and when I say it I mean antisemitism, hate against Jews is so steeped in not just modern civilization, but civilizations going back thousands and thousands of years. It is the original conspiracy theory.

And so, that is the kind of thing I'm told that he is going to talk about. Also touch on the -- the protests. I'm told by a Biden official that he is going to say that the campus protests, he's going to talk about what peaceful protests are, what they are not, and where the line should be drawn.

HUNT: Yes. In terms of understanding the history of this, I mean, I think I am struck by how we are really still so close to having this have happened. Right? I mean, the Holocaust, in historical terms, was basically yesterday, and yet it seems like there isn't a historical, I don't know if it's an understanding or it's not present for some in some of these conversations the way certainly it was when I was growing up. Why do you think that has happened?

BASH : Some of it is time. Some of it is that it was 80 years ago, and that, you know, I grew up --

HUNT: Yes. My grandfather fought in World War II.

BASH : Exactly.

HUNT: Right. So, I remember that.

BASH: We grew up -- we grew up where it wasn't just reading it in a history book, it was hearing it from people in our family, and it was much, much, much more present. And as time goes by, not only is it not something that is part of the conversations that people have with their families, it's also not taught enough in schools. I mean, one of the things that I learned doing the first special was how much Holocaust education has fallen off the curriculum in so many schools, public schools across the country.

And I just want to also, on that note, one thing that shouldn't be overlooked is that part of what the president is going to do today is he's going to direct the Department of Education of Civil Rights to send a letter to every school district to give concrete examples of antisemitic behavior and discrimination. He's going to direct the Homeland Security Department to build an online campus safety resource and also try to redouble efforts to deal with online hate, which is absolutely huge.

And I also just want to say that maybe it's a little bit of a difficult line for the president to be talking about what he's going to be talking about on the backdrop of these protests. But I just want to underscore what I was told by administration official.

HUNT: Yes.

BASH : Protesting is an American right. And that's fine. It's that line that goes into intimidation and actual discrimination. Writing swastikas, telling a Jew that they can't go someplace just because they're Jewish has nothing to do with the right to protest what people think is an unjust over the difficult humanitarian situation (inaudible) without response by (inaudible).

HUNT: Without question. Let's bring our panel into this conversation. Isaac Dovere, David Frum, who's frequently at the table, wrote this in The Atlantic about the headline is urging Joe, not Joe Biden. Joe, he calls him in the headline, don't both sides this speech. And he writes this, quote, most American Jews accept that mainstream U.S. liberals like Biden reject both variants of antisemitism. He's talking about the right wing and the left wing, as he sees it.

Very observably, mainstream American liberalism is a lot more comfortable standing up to the Greene, Marjorie Taylor Greene version than the Omar Ilhan Omar. He's noting that this is something that's present on the far right and on the far left. How does the Biden administration see this? And how is he going to try to use this speech in that way?

EDWARD-ISAAC DOVERE, CNN SENIOR REPORTER: Well, look, Joe Biden talks, and I can almost recite it from memory, the way that he talks about what got him into running for president in 2020. He says the march at Charlottesville is what did. And he always says the antisemitic bile, that's the phrase comes out of his mouth, that was the same as it was in the 1930s.

And you see that this is an issue for him that goes back from long before 2017, when that happened, but has been with him always. And he sees the antisemitism as something that is deeply unAmerican. For somebody who is not Jewish, I would say you hear him talk about antisemitism more than pretty much anyone else who is not Jewish.

HUNT: Yes.

[06:40:00]

DOVERE: But he is looking at what's going on here and seeing that this is coming out of people who are on the left and on the right and trying, as he often does, to be the force to say, let's be common sense, this is what America is. That has been getting rejected by a lot of people, obviously by a lot of voters so far. But he is trying to tap into here something that, as Dan was talking about, the legacy of antisemitism is so insidious.

And what has been so disturbing to so many people, Jewish or not in these campus protests, is seeing how easily it's tipped into asking Jews to show whether they have a wristband at one of the campuses to enter or calls for Jews to die.

And that is this really tricky place that Biden wants to be in or that Biden is in. And what he wants to do is try to, again, reset how we're thinking about this by talking about what the actual facts are that this is -- there -- there are a lot of Jews in Israel who criticize what the Israeli government is doing.

BASH : Many.

DOVERE: Right? You showed the protests from yesterday about it. There are a lot of Jews in America who disagree with what Israel is doing, but there are very few Jews who would say that what has been coming out of the antisemitism is OK.

And very few people who have felt the allyship the way that, you know, the term of the left that usually gets talked about has been there in the same way Joe Biden trying to stand there as the president saying, I have been on this journey for a long time, and I want to put the country back there.

HUNT: All right. Isaac Dovere for us. Isaac, thank you. Dana, thank you. BASH : Thanks, Kasie.

HUNT: All right, coming up next, a prominent conservative Republican who once defied Donald Trump decides he's voting for Joe Biden. Plus, Democratic Congressman Jake Auchincloss is here. He'll join our table. Coming up next.

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[06:45:00]

HUNT: All right, 45 minutes past the hour. Here's your morning roundup. The launch of Boeing's Starliner Rocket scrubbed two hours before the scheduled liftoff. Officials say there was a mechanical issue with an oxygen relief valve.

An American soldier detained in Russia on accusations of theft. Russian state media reporting the soldier will be detained for two months and citing a foreign ministry official who said the alleged crime is, quote, not related to politics or espionage.

In an unrelated incident, a second American was arrested and sentenced to 10 days in jail for drunk and disorderly conduct.

Bernie Sanders will seek a fourth term in the U.S. Senate. The 82- year-old Vermont independent says the November election is, quote, the most important national election in our lifetimes, quote, and he says he wants to be part of the fight for democracy.

Speaking of the fight for democracy, Geoff Duncan endorsing Joe Biden over Donald Trump. The former Georgia lieutenant governor is a conservative Republican. He is urging other fellow Republicans to follow his lead for the good of the country.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEOFF DUNCAN, FORMER LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR OF GEORGIA: Sometimes the best way to learn your lesson is to get beat, and Donald Trump needs to get beat. To think Donald Trump's wholeheartedly a conservative is just fake news at its finest. This guy's a fake Republican. We have to move on as Republicans. We have to.

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HUNT: So, know he did actually lose to Joe Biden in 2020. Not that he's been willing to accept that. All right, this morning, the Israeli military says they've seized control of the Gazan side of the Rafah crossing, a crucial entry point for humanitarian aid. Video from the Israel Defense Forces shows Israeli flags raised at the crossing. The offensive comes as protests on college campuses here in the U.S. over the war in the Middle East continue.

And as President Biden is slated to address the rise in antisemitism during a speech this morning marking Holocaust Remembrance Day.

Joining me now to discuss Democratic Congressman Jake Auchincloss of Massachusetts. Congressman, thank you very much for being here today. How would you characterize the importance of President Biden's speech today addressing Holocaust Remembrance Day?

REP. JAKE AUCHINCLOSS (D-MA): He's speaking to Jewish and Americans -- Jewish Americans, excuse me, at a time when they are more anxious and afraid than at any point in my lifetime. He needs to remind Americans that Auschwitz is not long ago and not far away, that pluralism and tolerance are part of America's DNA.

And I hope in so doing, that he explicitly refutes the left of his party for their role in fomenting this antisemitism. That will be a marker of leadership, that he is willing to not just say, as he did after Charlottesville, that that type of hate is unacceptable, but it's also unacceptable when it happens within his own party, as regrettably it is right now in the United States.

I also want to see actions, though, particularly the resourcing and the political support for civil rights investigations under the Department of Education for universities failing to uphold their Title VI responsibilities. I was on Harvard's campus last week meeting with Jewish and Israeli students.

They described a pattern of ostracism and harassment that is clearly disparate treatment and is clearly an unsuitable learning environment for them. And for that, Harvard corporation and Harvard's president is liable.

HUNT: You said that you have been on the campuses of Harvard, and you visited with these students just now. Can you help us understand what that looks like for them? Because I do think, when we hear a lot of the voices from these protesters who are trying to say, well, it's peaceful. We're not actually harassing Jewish students. Clearly, the Jewish students do not feel that way. What is it that they are experiencing?

AUCHINCLOSS: So, first of all, it's bigger than the protests. The protests are a crystallizing moment for much of the antisemitism that's been bubbling up on these campuses. And to be clear, the antizionism has oftentimes morphed into antisemitism. There's this trick where people are recycling age old antisemitic tropes and replacing the word Jew with the word Zionist. Yes, we're onto that. That's still antisemitic.

You can absolutely criticize the Israeli government. You can absolutely protest Netanyahu or any actions that you want of the Israeli government. Fair game. But you can't say all Zionists are murderers and not expect people to think that that's also antisemitic as well.

[06:50:00]

AUCHINCLOSS: There's a different experience, I think, for Jews and for Israelis on these campuses. The Jewish students have to code their Zionism to work in progressive spaces. If you're a Jewish student and you want to be active in LGBT issues, if you want to be active in democracy issues, you can't also be Zionists. They have to now suppress that element of their identity. Israeli students are just downright harassed on campus.

For them, it is they cannot participate in most of the academic and social settings on many of these universities. And for that reason, I've pressed eight Massachusetts universities to come back with an action plan for how are you going to improve your antisemitism climate on campus? Because the ADL ranked four of them with an F and the other four with a C for how they've upheld a suitable learning environment for Jewish students.

HUNT: You mentioned that you think that the president has to call out or speak to the left of your party. And it is your party, as well as the president's party, and many of the people who are the loudest voices on this in the Democratic Party are actually members of the House of Representatives. Who do you -- how do you think their actions, some of the actions of the people in the House, Democrats in the House, have impacted this debate?

AUCHINCLOSS: It's a question of double standards. The kinds of speech and conduct that feel acceptable when it's targeted towards Jews or Israelis, that doesn't feel acceptable against other protected classes in the United States. And it's also a question of insufficiently separating criticism of the Israeli government with criticism of the Jewish people or of all Zionists, period.

And then the third element is we have to fully condemn October 7 and put the culpability where it belongs, which is with Hamas. Hamas is a terrorist organization that has promised to repeat the atrocities of October 7, which include rape, torture, and the murder of children, and the party right now in the Middle East, working for a permanent ceasefire, despite what these protesters may think, is actually Israel.

Because Israel, by trying to architect a post war governance in Gaza that excludes Hamas, is setting the conditions for a permanent ceasefire and peace in that region, whereas Hamas wants time to rest and refit so that they can attack Israel again. And that's not my opinion. That's what Hamas' leadership has said. We will do this again, as they did five times previously.

HUNT: Do you think there are members of the House and your party who are antisemitic?

AUCHINCLOSS: I'm not going to speak to what's in people's hearts. What I will say that members of the party who encourage and egg on protesters who have taken on an antisemitic bent are making the environment on these campuses worse for Jewish students.

BASH : Can I just ask you a question? When I did a special on this back in 2022, and I just did, but most of my focus was on from the right, on white supremacists, on the fact that the door was kicked open to hard, disgusting antisemitism, mostly coming from the right.

I did something on a progressive student who was kicked out of her progressive group, having nothing to do with the group, had nothing to do with Judaism or Israel or anything, because she said that she supported the notion of Israel. At the time, the head of the ADL, Jonathan Greenblatt, said to me, the antisemitism on the right is like a hurricane. On the left, it's like climate change. It's slow. What is it now? What is your party when it comes to antisemitism?

AUCHINCLOSS: The Democratic Party overall is strongly in the American tradition of pluralism and tolerance, and Joe Biden crystallizes the best of that. But in order to maintain that reputation and that profile with the American people, we have to be willing to condemn, name, shame, and isolate antisemitism in pockets on the left. And the template here for us to avoid is what happened with the Labour Party in Great Britain.

The Labour Party in Great Britain allowed antisemitism to mutate into its mainstream, and it has now had to excise some of those worst tumors. The Democratic Party needs to be forceful in preventing that. We're nowhere near that. I don't want to overstate the case, but it does require forceful leadership and words from President Biden, from party leadership, like Hakeem Jeffries, who's been superb on this issue.

And then it requires us to put our money where our mouth is in terms of Office of Civil Rights enforcement measures from Education Department.

HUNT: Yes. Do you think that -- the Biden administration is announcing some actions on that today. They have. It was -- embargo came out at 5 a.m. this morning. They are going to do some of what you describe as my understanding. I suppose if you haven't seen the details yet, you may not be able to answer whether or not you think it goes far enough? But how -- I mean, how much money are we talking about here? Like, what would satisfy you?

AUCHINCLOSS: Well, I've been working with my colleagues on, I believe, at least 300 million extra dollars for the Office of Civil Rights. These are a bunch of hardworking lawyers within the Department of Education, chronically under resourced for the investigations that, unfortunately, are surging through their door right now. So, they're going to need more attorneys and more resources to move around the country.

[06:55:00]

AUCHINCLOSS: I also want to hear and see the president and his administration not try to both sides this issue and instead really forcefully say, we have an antisemitism problem right now. Here's what we're doing about antisemitism. Jews are 2% of the American population, account for, I think, more than 60% of religious based hate crimes in the country right now. There's clearly a need for a specified surge in OCR investigations related to antisemitism.

HUNT: OK. This has been a great conversation. Congressman, thank you very much. And Congressman is going to stick around with us as we make the turn to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: You know what? Our Constitution is much more important than jail. It's not even close. I'll do that sacrifice any day.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: Donald Trump saying he would rather go to jail than comply with the gag order in his New York hush money trial after Judge Juan Merchan found Trump in contempt for violating that order for the tenth time. Merchan told Trump directly in court on Monday, quote, the last thing I want to do is put you in jail. You are the former president of the United States and possibly the next president. Just a reminder, this is new territory for all of us.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SETH MEYERS, LATE NIGHT WITH SETH MEYERS HOST: That's right. The judge threatened to throw Trump in jail while also acknowledging he could be the next president of the United States. That is a (EXPLETIVE DELETED) wild series of words. But we're somehow accustomed to it. I guarantee when most people saw that headline, they just scrolled past it on their phone like, Trump might go to jail. And then, whoa, did you hear this new Kendrick diss track?

(LAUGHTER)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: I mean, some truths. OK?

DOUG HEYE, FORMER RNC COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR : Fair.

HUNT: To your point, I mean, I just want to just spend a second that it is remarkable that a judge just told the presumptive Republican presidential nominee and a former president of the country that he could go to jail.

HEYE: Well, and one of the things that Donald Trump amazingly does well in defying gravity is he simultaneously plays the martyr and the strongest person in the room. Right? And he tries to do that simultaneously, and it works with him and his base. I think the challenge that Trump and his team face is it is a base play.

And so, we're hearing so much about how this would help Donald Trump if he were actually sent to jail. You get into very high cotton at that point and risky territory if you're thinking that because if people see the potential president going to jail, a lot of those independent voters, a lot of those Nikki Haley voters, and they're still voting for Nikki Haley, might say, wait a second, this is not a direction I want to go in. It will be a big fundraising moment for Trump, for sure.

HUNT: Yes, I mean, Congressman, it's kind of wild that we have to, like, raise this as a hypothetical, but here we are. I mean, Trump going to jail or being detained or even this conversation. What is the political ramification of it?

AUCHINCLOSS: If this is how he behaves in a courtroom, how is he going to behave in the Oval Office? We need to remind the American people of the chaos of the Trump years and underscore that now any boundaries and standards that may have accompanied his first administration will be jettisoned in a potential second administration.

Meanwhile, Joe Biden and Democrats are trying to figure out how to lower the cost of healthcare, trying to invest in infrastructure, trying to expand domestic manufacturing to outcompete China. It's team normal versus team extreme, and Donald Trump is the absolute exemplar of team extreme.

HEYE: And if Trump is sent to jail, real quickly, every congressional Republican is going to put out a statement or a tweet supporting Donald Trump and then privately say, this is the last thing I want to be talking about.

AUCHINCLOSS: And we will hold them all to account for come November to the Democratic Party. They need to be tied to the extremism that he represents.

HUNT: Elliot, what did you read into the judge's remarks? I mean, like, do you think he's actually gonna do this?

ELLIOT WILLIAMS, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: I think I read very judgerly because he used strong language, and I think he's prepared to put the former president behind bars. But there's a few things. One, he laid out, as he should have, you're a candidate for office. You're a former and maybe future president. Cover your ears, Congressman.

But for those reasons, I'm very reluctant to put you behind bars, also because doing so will slow down the criminal trial that it is in the interest of the public to complete. He even says in the order here, if appropriate and warranted, he will put the president behind bars. And I just think he's hedging a little bit and reluctant to do it.

BASH : I just think on the raw politics, you're right that members of Congress are going to, Republicans, if that happens, in the off chance that that happens.

HUNT: In the unlikely event.

BASH : Yes. Republicans would put out statements saying, this is outrageous. I know judges are not supposed to have political antenna up, but he basically said, the judge said, like, I don't want to do this. And it's not just because of his stature of what he was and what he could be. It's there's no question that the judge understands that the political backlash to putting Donald Trump in jail would be maybe even incomprehensible.

WILLIAMS: A judge texted me last night saying, he's got to do it for all judges all around the, and, well, yeah, from the perspective of --

HUNT: The judiciary, right.

(CROSSTALK)

[07:00:03] WILLIAMS: Of course, it's for the integrity of the judiciary, I think this judge doesn't live in fantasy land and knows that it's a huge fall back -- pushback.

HUNT: Yes, right, for sure. All right, well, on that note, a conversation Dana and I are going to continue to have, Elliot too, I think all day here on CNN as we cover the trial, which resumes again at 9:30 this morning. Thanks to our panel. Congressman, thank you for joining us. Thanks to all of you for being with us.

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