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Trump Classified Documents Case Indefinitely Postponed; Rep. Seth Moulton (D-MA) On Key Gaza Border Crossing Reopened To Humanitarian Aid; WNBA To Begin Providing Charter Flights Full Time. Aired 5:30-6a ET

Aired May 08, 2024 - 05:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[05:30:00]

KASIE HUNT, CNN ANCHOR: All right, just before 5:30 a.m. here in Washington, D.C. A live look at Capitol Hill on this Wednesday morning. Good morning, everyone. I'm Kasie Hunt. It's wonderful to have you with us.

A major development in Donald Trump's classified documents case. The trial has been postponed indefinitely. The judge, Aileen Cannon, canceling the May trial date yesterday citing issues with classified evidence. The delay makes it unlikely the trial will start before the November election. There are still multiple disputes that the judge has to decide before the case can be heard by a jury. Judge Cannon confirming that it will take until at least late July.

Former Trump White House attorney Ty Cobb weighing in last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TY COBB, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE ATTORNEY: This is direct. This is clear. All she's really done today though is make official what everybody, including Jack Smith, already knew, which was she had no intention of getting this case to trial and she wasn't competent to get this case to trial.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: There are no trial dates currently set for the three other criminal cases that Trump is facing.

And joining me now, former January 6 investigative counsel, Marcus Childress. Marcus, good morning to you.

MARCUS CHILDRESS, FORMER JANUARY 6 INVESTIGATIVE COUNSEL: Good morning.

HUNT: Thank you for being here.

This judge has repeatedly delayed things here. When she says there's a whole bunch of stuff on the docket that she's got to -- that has to be dealt with before this trial can start, it's actually on her to make those decisions, no? CHILDRESS: That's the point. She claimed there was a logjam, and the logjam is because she hasn't made rulings. And for a lot of these motions that are still outstanding, these are motions that typically, judges just rule on from the bench but she's still holding hearings.

For example, holding a hearing on the vindictive prosecution motion that the defense filed. Vindictive prosecution filings are, I don't want to say common or the norm, but it's something that you see in high-profile type cases. And lots of times, judges just rule from the bench on it. I think she wants to have a hearing on that.

She wants to have a hearing on the classified documents and what plans to be admitted in trial. She's seen all the classified documents so she should be in a good position to rule on these types of motions but still has not.

So I think what Ty Cobb said yesterday is kind of spot on. I think a lot of jurists saw this moving towards not going to trial before the election and she pretty much just kind of confirmed that with her -- with her decision yesterday.

HUNT: Yeah.

So this is what our Stephen Collinson wrote about this. He says, "Cannon's move comes with Trump's two election interference cases, both of which have become swamped by his pretrial delaying tactics and fulsome appeals, also unlikely to go on trial before voters make their fateful choice in November.

So, while the hush money case" -- which, of course, has been unfolding -- "is widely regarded as the weakest of the bunch facing Trump, it's likely the only one that could create the never-before-seen scenario of a convicted felon asking voters to elect him president." Now, of course, Stephen is talking about what we saw yesterday, and he said, "That makes the testimony of Daniels even more critical."

Do you expect this is the only criminal trial that we're going to see Trump go through until the election?

CHILDRESS: I think what this delay in the classified documents case did do is that it frees up the calendar for Judge Chutkan in the election interference case in D.C. to -- depending on the Supreme Court rules, of course -- maybe push faster. I think she's previously said that approximately 80 days after the Supreme Court returns it back to the lower court is when she plans to go to trial. Of course, we have no idea what the Supreme Court is going to say on the -- on the immunity for the president and whether there needs to be more hearings on remand.

But I think it does free up the calendar, but it is looking more challenging that we'll see another trial -- at least a criminal trial -- before the election period this year.

HUNT: I mean, if we expect the Supreme Court to rule in late June- early July --

CHILDRESS: Right.

HUNT: -- 80 days past that -- I mean, isn't that the height of the election?

CHILDRESS: September-October, yes. But Judge Chutkan said -- and maybe this -- maybe this is wishful thinking on her part, but she has said she's not going to consider the political calendar or the election when scheduling her trial, just like other defendants before her court have jobs as well. Of course, we'll see how that actually plays out when it returns to the lower court. But that's what she said, and I do expect her to kind of stay true to her word of at least pushing to try to get to trial regardless of the election schedule.

HUNT: So, Marcus, let me ask you about Stormy Daniels yesterday, which is always -- keeping a straight face covering it --

CHILDRESS: Yeah.

HUNT: -- was not always easy. But there was something we learned from the transcript --

CHILDRESS: Right.

HUNT: -- last night, which is that the judge in the case called Trump's lawyer up to the bench and he said that he could audibly hear Trump swearing under his breath, shaking his head. And he said you need to stop him from doing that because it's -- it comes across as contemptuous, it could intimidate the witness, and it could impact the jury.

What was your take about Trump behaving that way and how it potentially influences the case?

CHILDRESS: Well, it shows me that the court is worried about keeping control of the courtroom by doing that. I don't know how well it will actually play out. In fact, in my experiences, when defendants are acting that way the biggest risk is to the witness. And I don't believe that Ms. Daniels would have been worried about how the former president was acting.

I don't think it plays well for a jury, personally. It almost adds merit to what the witness is saying on the stand. And I'm assuming that's probably the way the jury was taking it, right, is that he's not pleased with what she's saying because it's damning.

[05:35:00]

I was telling Margaret backstage like, look, every fact that's said in trial is prejudicial, right? And so, if you're now reacting to it and shaking your head and acting a certain way, I wouldn't be surprised the prosecution alludes to that in their closing argument to show how truthful and hard-hitting that testimony was.

HUNT: Yeah.

CHILDRESS: We'll see. HUNT: All right, Marcus, stay with us.

CHILDRESS: OK.

HUNT: I want to bring in Margaret Talev, right next to me. You were talking before the -- before the -- they sat down.

Let's turn now to this -- watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JIMMY KIMMEL, HOST, "JIMMY KIMMEL LIVE!": You know how Trump made a big deal of the judge not letting him go to Barron's high school graduation even though the judge never said anything about not letting him go and actually is letting him go? Well, you're definitely going to believe this. On the day Barron is graduating in Florida, Trump is headlining an event in Minnesota. I guess dad's not going to make the post-graduation brunch. Sorry, son -- I have to go scream about windmills for two hours.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: So, Trump actually has today off from his New York hush money trial. Is he campaigning? No. He is headed back to Mar-a-Lago while Biden is traveling to Wisconsin and Chicago. Trump complaining again yesterday about his courtroom schedule cramping his style.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: In the meantime, I'm stuck. I'm here instead of being in Georgia, instead of being in New Hampshire, instead of being in Wisconsin, and all the different states that we wanted to be in.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: All right, joining our conversation, Axios senior contributor, Margaret Talev. Margaret, good morning to you.

MARGARET TALEV, SENIOR CONTRIBUTOR, AXIOS, DIRECTOR, SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY'S DEMOCRACY, JOURNALISM AND CITIZENSHIP INSTITUTE: Good morning.

HUNT: I have -- you know, it's -- he could be on the campaign trail today but he's not. He's right. He couldn't have been yesterday. He had to be in court for that.

Why not? I mean, why wouldn't he take advantage of a Wednesday to go out and do this? I mean, he did last week.

TALEV: Well, in a sense, he has been using this trial and all of his trials to do a different sort of campaigning, but it's not the kind where you hit the pavement and shake hands with voters you've never met.

My colleague at Axios, Sophia Cai, will be reporting today about the former president's plans to spend some of his day off with supporters at Mar-a-Lago who spent money on Trump's "Mugshot Edition" NFTs. So that is a form of campaigning.

HUNT: OK.

TALEV: Yes.

HUNT: Yes, that's a very specific niche.

So, Margaret, what was your kind of big picture take of what we saw?

I mean, the New York Post is calling what happened yesterday "The Full Lewinsky" --

TALEV: Yeah.

HUNT: -- right? A reference, obviously, to Monica Lewinsky and Bill Clinton.

And I do think there is probably some questions to be asked about how this is going to be interpreted not just with the jury but with the public.

TALEV: Right. I mean, we're in an election year in 2024 globally where democracy is on the ballot, where autocracy is on the rise. Where these really large global themes that the U.S. election plays a really important piece in. But we're talking about an ex-president who is running for reelection and his relationship to an adult film star. So there is kind of a high-low moment to the whole thing.

But I think -- there was a lot of discussion yesterday about whether Stormy Daniels could actually -- whether her testimony could hurt Trump -- could help Trump on an appeal if he were to be convicted. I think that's all slightly beside the point from a political perspective. I don't think anything about here testimony is helpful to the former president because it is just a reminder of the chaos and morality questions and honesty questions that sort of dogged him during the years of presidency. It's an unwelcome issue for him heading back onto the campaign trail.

But I also think Stormy Daniels may not be the most important part of this case. She is a salacious part and it's a part we're all talking about, but this case has often -- is -- it's often been said it's Michael Cohen's --

HUNT: Yeah.

TALEV: -- testimony is actually much more important, and we're going to get back to that shortly.

HUNT: Yeah.

Marcus, you mentioned kind of how Trump's reaction may have made it seem as though it was damning. But we should, I do think, also note that Trump has denied that any of this ever happened. And on cross- examination, you started to see -- and it's still ongoing. It's going to start back up again on Thursday. You started to see the defense tactics around trying to cast doubt on Daniels, including surfacing an admission from her -- you know, getting her to admit that she hates Trump.

CHILDRESS: Right.

HUNT: How do you think that impacts it?

TEXT: Susan Necheles: Am I correct that you hate President Trump? Stormy Daniels: Yes. Susan Necheles: And you want him to go to jail, right? Stormy Daniels: I want him to be held accountable. Susan Necheles: You want him to go to jail. Am I correct? Stormy Daniels: If he is found guilty, absolutely.

CHILDRESS: I mean, it's not a great fact. It was a good -- I think it was a good jab the defense was able to get out of Stormy Daniels. But it's also not surprising, right? You have an individual that was engaged in allegedly, a sexual relationship with the former president. And her testimony is critical to showing why the former president -- his intent to want to cover up that story after the "ACCESS HOLLYWOOD" tape. So she's a critically important witness in terms of proving up the claims.

I agree with Margaret that Michael Cohen is going to be much more critical.

[05:40:00]

But look, those are points that were scored. But I think the bigger point is that the prosecution was able to have Stormy Daniels testify on Tuesday. The defense was not able to get through their cross. So now, the jurors are sitting for 36 hours really just sitting on her mostly positive testimony for the prosecution without getting that full cross in. So I wonder how that will play out -- you know, the fact that they're just sitting there at home replaying her testimony without the cross, heading into Thursday for a long period of time.

TALEV: And I do think this is an important point that remember, Stormy Daniels was not part of the 2016 story. There was another part of the 2016 story that had to do with women -- the former president's- then candidate's relationship with women. But this was not part of 2016. It is part of the 2024 campaign in the sort of details that came up -- regardless of what they do legally to some theoretical perspective future appeal -- are certainly the sort of details that would be very hard to know if you never had any sort of contact with the person.

So I think it does raise real -- it does raise serious questions about the candidate -- the former president's --

HUNT: Yeah.

TALEV: -- integrity and reliability on this issue.

HUNT: Well -- I mean, certainly, the silk pajamas, the boxer shorts, the magazine.

TALEV: Things you can never unsee, yeah.

HUNT: Or -- yeah. There was a lot. There was a lot there.

Margaret Talev, Marcus Childress, thank you both very much for being here.

All right. Coming up, Gaza ceasefire talks reach a critical stage. Massachusetts Congressman Seth Moulton is here to discuss what needs to happen next.

Plus --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NBA ANNOUNCER: Looking for some daylight -- swish!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: The Boston Celtics looking tough to beat against the Cavs. Our Bleacher Report's ahead.

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[05:46:08]

HUNT: All right, welcome back.

A humanitarian border crossing into Gaza back open this morning. The Kerem Shalom crossing had been closed to aid delivery since Sunday when a rocket attack nearby killed four Israeli soldiers. The Israeli military captured the Gazan side of the Rafah Crossing on Tuesday -- a vital entry point for aid into the Palestinian territory, and that crossing remains closed.

The State Department says they want both open as soon as possible.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MATTHEW MILLER, SPOKESPERSON, U.S. STATE DEPARTMENT: We want to see it fully reopen. And so, when I say it depends on what happens next, we -- if Kerem Shalom opens and Rafah reopens, those will be important steps because we don't want to see humanitarian assistance limited or impeded in any way.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: All right. Joining me now to discuss is Democratic Congressman Seth Moulton of Massachusetts. Congressman, thank you so much for being here.

REP. SETH MOULTON (D-MA): Good to be here.

HUNT: So, you have been very critical of Benjamin Netanyahu, the Israeli prime minister. And we have seen them make this initial incursion into Rafah. It is not a full-scale invasion at this point.

But do you think what they've done so far -- how do you think it impacts the future of the conflict?

MOULTON: Well, first of all -- I mean, Israel has a right and even a responsibility to eliminate Hamas, but the question is, is going into Rafah actually going to really help? I mean, are they actually going to be effectively able to eliminate Hamas without drumming up more support for Hamas by killing more innocent civilians?

One of the lessons that we learned in Iraq and Afghanistan time and time again is you can't succeed in a counterinsurgency fight like this -- a fight where you fundamentally have to win the support of the population at the end of the day if you kill too many innocent civilians.

I don't see how Israel goes into Rafah and doesn't kill thousands and thousands of civilians, even if they're able to take out a few Hamas operatives.

HUNT: We learned overnight that -- a U.S. official tells us that they did pause a shipment of two-ton bombs to Israel as all of this is looming.

Was that the right decision?

MOULTON: I support President Biden's decision.

And when we were fighting -- again, in Iraq, for example, where we had a lot of allies -- allies on the ground that we were fighting shoulder-to-shoulder with, allies from across the world that were part of our coalition, we regularly told them what to do and what not to do. And when they didn't listen to us, we withheld items. We said you're not allowed to do certain operations. I mean, this was a common practice through 20 years of Iraq and Afghanistan.

So for people to hold this out and say America never does this to our allies and this is exceptional with Israel, it's just not true.

HUNT: Very interesting.

What, at this point, do you think is the best way for President Biden to be addressing the deep dissent and divides inside the Democratic Party around what's going on in Gaza? Obviously, he gave a major speech on antisemitism yesterday. But it did take him a couple of days to call out campus protests.

How do you think he has handled this?

MOULTON: Well, I think he's being cautious and I understand that, but he's really got to get out there and listen. And you've got to listen to the dissent. To the concern. I mean, we're a country that values dissent, that encourages freedom of speech, and that has to be the foundation here. You start with that.

Now, in some cases, the campus protests are intimidating. They're harassing Jewish students. I've heard from families who are concerned about the safety of their own kids at school. In cases like that, the universities have a right and I would say even a responsibility to crack down on these campers. But let's start with freedom of speech and engage with the concerns.

HUNT: So, Congressman, let's change gears and talk about politics for a second, which yesterday, involved a split-screen of, again, President Biden talking about antisemitism in marking Holocaust Remembrance Day and then, Donald Trump on trial in a courtroom where he was swearing under his breath as Stormy Daniels testified about their encounter.

[05:50:05]

How do you think voters are absorbing what's going on right now?

MOULTON: Well, actually, most voters I've talked to are trying to not absorb at all. They're so tired of hearing about Trump's legal problems. I mean, this total escapade. It's embarrassing for the country that a former president is on trial for his relationship with a porn star and he did to pay this person off. By the way, if any of my colleagues, or I, in Congress paid off a porn star like that we'd be out in a heartbeat.

So it is a serious case. Don't dismiss the case. But Americans are so tired of this, frankly.

HUNT: Well, it's not a porn star, but we do -- we have had news of one of your colleagues engaged in something that caught the eyes of -- attention of law enforcement. That's Congressman Cuellar, who has said he will not step down in the face of this. This is financial allegations -- improprieties that relate to influence from other countries.

Do you think Congressman Cuellar should step down?

MOULTON: You know, look, I think these are very serious allegations. I'm not familiar with the details. But he would probably be doing the right thing for the country if he -- if he did step down, but that's ultimately his decision right now.

HUNT: All right.

Let me also ask you, speaking of shenanigans in the House of Representatives of a different kind, Speaker Johnson has been meeting continuously with Marjorie Taylor Greene to try to avoid a vote that would kick him out of his speakership. She has made a list of demands for him. The question still remains whether or not she's going to do it.

If she did go ahead with it, would you, as a Democrat, vote to keep Johnson -- to keep the gavel in Johnson's hand?

MOULTON: You know, the quick reaction is yes just because we don't need more chaos in the House. And frankly, the alternative to Johnson would probably be worse. But if this keeps going on -- you know, I'll vote yes because of what he did to get the foreign aid vote. And I know he took a political risk with Ukraine even though, of course, it was the right thing to do and just what he should have done from the very beginning as speaker.

But if this happens again, he's going to have to make a deal with us. I mean, he has to be willing to negotiate. He's one of the most conservative speakers in American history. We're not just going to give him a free pass.

HUNT: All right, Congressman Seth Moulton. You're going to stick around for the top of the show. Thank you very much for.

MOULTON: Yes.

HUNT: All right, time now for sports. The Thunder rolled past the Mavericks to stay unbeaten in the NBA Playoffs.

Andy Scholes has this morning's Bleacher Report. Andy, good morning.

ANDY SCHOLES, CNN SPORTS ANCHOR: Yeah, good morning, Kasie.

So the young Thunder just continue to be so impressive. OKC's average age is about 24 years old, and they were already the youngest team ever to win a playoff series. Well now, they're the youngest team ever to win a second-round game.

And the Thunder's superstar Shai Gilgeous-Alexander -- he was just fabulous in game one. The 25-year-old with 29 points, nine rebounds, and nine assists. And OKC just playing stifling defense on Luka Doncic all night long. They held Luka to one for eight shooting from three and he finished with just 19 points, snapping a streak of 24 consecutive playoff games with at least 20.

The Thunder would run away with game one 117-95 to remain undefeated in the playoffs.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NBA ANNOUNCER: So it's an 11-point game, second three to (INAUDIBLE). Jaylen Brown!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHOLES: The Celtics, meanwhile, having no problem with the Cavs in game one of their second-round series. Brown leading the way with Boston with 32 points. His teammate Derrick White on fire from beyond the three-point line and connected seven times from downtown to finish with 25 points in the 120-95 blowout. It's the fourth time the Celtics have won by 20 or more this postseason.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DERRICK WHITE, GUARD, BOSTON CELTICS: It feels goods. I think just the most important thing is just doing -- like I said before, it doesn't matter if I score zero or my score today, we win and we win enough. (END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHOLES: All right, it's been a couple of days for Timberwolves' center Rudy Gobert. His baby boy was born on Monday morning. And then last night, he was named the NBA's Defensive Player of the Year for a record-tying fourth time. The Frenchman joins Hall of Famer Dikembe Mutombo and Ben Wallace as the only players to win the award four times.

Now, the biggest award of the year, the Most Valuable Player. That's going to be announced tonight at 7:30 Eastern on our sister channel TNT. Then after that you've got the Pacers trying to even up their series against the Knicks. Game two set to tip off at 8:00 at Madison Square Garden.

All right, no lead is too safe in the Stanley Cup Playoffs this year. So, the Stars looked like they were going to skate to an easy win against the Avalanche after scoring three goals in the first period to take an early 3-0 lead. But it turns out Colorado had them right where they wanted them. The Avs battled back with two goals in the second period, then another in the third to tie the game and force overtime.

And then it would be Miles Wood coming up huge. The winger is going to take off on the breakaway and he's going to send the backhander into the back of the net.

Colorado pulls off the epic comeback to win game one. Four-three was the final.

And what's better than overtime? How about two overtimes? The Hurricanes and the Rangers went toe to toe in Madison Square Garden last night. In the end, it was Vincent Trocheck scoring a powerplay goal off of a rebound in the second overtime to give New York the 4-3 win. It's the sixth-straight win in the playoffs with the Rangers -- eighth straight going back to the regular season. Fun times there in Madison Square Garden.

[05:55:13]

Game three tomorrow night as the series shifts to Raleigh.

And finally, WNBA commissioner Cathy Engelbert says the league is going to now be providing chartered flights for the teams as soon as they can get all the planes in place. Engelbert told a group of sports editors they are committing $50 million over the next two seasons so that all of the players will now be flying private. WNBA teams had been flying commercial, except for the playoffs.

So, Kasie, all the players are not going to have to worry about safety as they go through all the airports and travel delays because they have been dealing with that now for years. So I'm sure all the players are very happy to hear that news.

HUNT: I'm always about leveling up the -- leveling up women's sports. I love to see it, so thank you very much for that, Andy.

SCHOLES: All right.

HUNT: I really appreciate it.

All right. Coming up next here, two candidates on two very different courses. One on trial, the other on the campaign trail six months out from the election.

Plus, the governor of Michigan declaring a state of emergency after a night of devastating tornadoes.

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