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Soon: Trump's Criminal Hush Money Trial Resumes; Biden: "I'm Not Supplying The Weapons" If Israel Goes Into Rafah; Cavs Bounce Back With Blowout Win Over Celtics. Aired 5:30-6a ET

Aired May 10, 2024 - 05:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[05:30:08]

KASIE HUNT, CNN ANCHOR: All right, just before 5:30 here in Washington. A live look at Capitol Hill on this Friday morning. Good morning, everyone. I'm Kasie Hunt. It's wonderful to have you with us.

We're just a few hours from Donald Trump's hush money trial resuming in Lower Manhattan. The day will begin with former Trump aide Madeleine Westerhout back on the stand. She testified Thursday about working at the White House detailing the checks that she'd received from the Trump Organization for the president to sign around the time that Michael Cohen was getting his hush money reimbursements.

But the main event yesterday, of course, was in the morning when Stormy Daniels finished her testimony. Trump's lawyers went on the attack trying to accuse the adult film star of making up the story of having sex with Trump.

Defense attorney Susan Necheles saying, "So, you have a lot of experience in making phony stories about sex appear to be real, right?" She's talking about, of course, her pornographic movies.

Daniels pushed back. "The sex in the films, it is very much real. Just like what happened to me in that room."

Daniels followed a similar line of questioning with this response. "If that story was untrue, I would have written it to be a lot better." Later adding, "I am a good screenwriter."

After Daniels was off the stand, Trump's lawyers asked Judge Juan Merchan to declare a mistrial and modify the gag order against Trump. The judge rejected both requests.

Joining me now to discuss, former U.S. attorney, Michael Moore. Michael, good morning.

MICHAEL MOORE, CNN LEGAL ANALYST, FORMER U.S. ATTORNEY, PARTNER, MOORE HALL: Good morning. Glad to be with you.

HUNT: It's 5:30 in the morning.

MOORE: It is, and here we are again talking all tawdry tales and things.

HUNT: Tawdry to say the least.

MOORE: Yes.

HUNT: So, look, what was your view of how the defense handled Stormy Daniels yesterday in terms of -- I mean, they put her under pretty aggressive cross-examination. I mean, my big question is how did that play with the jury?

MOORE: Yeah. You know, I don't want to always armchair quarterback the lawyers in the courtroom, but I do think --

HUNT: Well --

MOORE: -- that they --

HUNT: -- we don't have very many -- much other options here.

MOORE: That's right -- right.

HUNT: We're trying to talk about it.

MOORE: But I do think that lawyers oftentimes have a tendency to over-examine witnesses. And this would have been a great time I think for them to just stand up that morning and say you don't have anything to offer about whether or not the defendant falsified any business records, do you? Thank you very much -- and sit down . And sort of shaken things up a little bit and maybe put some -- you know, call the prosecution flat-footed as they were expecting this to go on and on.

Because really, all that we talked about yesterday had nothing to do with the case. I mean, as we -- every time that you open the door and you dig a little deeper you give a witness a chance to hurt your client and hurt your case. And so, instead of really saying, again, the state has never made the connection between the former president and these records and that direct command to falsify the records, we ended up sort of sullying him up again by talking more about the story and --

HUNT: But wasn't this about Donald Trump, the client?

MOORE: I think it was, and I think that's a hard balance to find when you're a lawyer with a client like this. I mean, sometimes it's just -- you know, you've got to tell your client to listen to you. But again -- I mean, this is the case --

HUNT: Good luck -- it's Donald Trump, right?

MOORE: Well, that's right. This is the case we're in and this is the one that they've decided to move forward with. I mean, it is what it is. And he may be thinking look, this is -- at the end of the day, I'm not seeing anything politically or whatever that's hurting him. But it would have been a good move I think to not give her a chance to hurt your case. You know, lawyers are a lot like doctors. You never want to do harm

and certainly, don't do any additional harm. Here, they may have done some additional harm. Again, it's hard to not -- you know, we're not in the -- watching this live.

HUNT: Right.

MOORE: We're not in the room. We're not watching the jurors to see if they gasp, if they look away, if they look bored. But it just -- it just was information that really has nothing to do with the facts of the case.

HUNT: Right.

So, Stormy Daniels -- I mean, it's clear that she was getting under Trump's skin --

MOORE: Sure.

HUNT: -- right? This is how we ended up here.

So this is what she goes on Twitter and says last night. Ready? "Real men respond to testimony by being sworn in and taking the stand in court. Oh, wait. Never mind."

MOORE: Right, right.

HUNT: I will say she is a champion at getting under his skin.

MOORE: Yeah.

HUNT: And this does seem to be how he's viewing whether he testifies or not. He doesn't want to say he won't testify because he doesn't want to be viewed as not willing to man up, like she said.

MOORE: I think that's right. I mean, he -- but he is likely to, as we've seen in the past, find some reason not to. And again, he doesn't have to. This is a criminal case. He has no burden to prove to get up there. Whether or not he feels like he wants to stand up and defend his reputation or whatever, that's something he'll decide. But he's got no obligation to do that.

But this plays back into the whole gag order, right? I mean, he's saying why am I not allowed to respond? I'm in the middle of a campaign. You're letting people use social media. You're letting people go out on the public airwaves and criticize me, basically. Why am I not allowed to respond? And so, that's the argument.

HUNT: Yeah.

MOORE: And that's one of the reasons I think this whole idea of modifying the gag order -- and maybe as we get closer in and we see what the appellate court does on this question of the gag order, that -- this kind of information may play in as we get there. The order is so broad and so vague and seems to apply to everybody who has ever heard anything or touched anything about the case that it just seems a little bit, at this point, like it could have been modified.

[05:35:05]

HUNT: Interesting.

So let's talk about what we see going forward. Obviously, Westerhout was on the stand. We're now talking about the actual cut and dry in this case of checks that were actually cut. Realities of the case --

MOORE: Yeah.

HUNT: -- in terms of whether or not Trump's guilty, not guilty, et cetera.

What do you expect more to hear from Westerhout today when she takes the stand, and what's the next turn here?

MOORE: I think the state's just trying to make the connection that Trump is monitoring what's going on in his business affairs and monitoring what's going on with these payments. That's all fine and good. Again, that's sort of like the sex in the case. Nobody's saying that he wasn't an engaged businessperson.

There's also some testimony that says actually, when he became president he was not really as engaged, which is sort of the timing of the criminal conduct that's alleged. So that actually I think helps the defense in this case.

But I think they'll continue to try to put his hands on the papers. They'll try to find his fingerprints on the pens. They'll do all that kind of stuff to give the appearance, at least, that he knew everything that was going on and he would sign the checks.

The problem they've got is Michael Cohen is the next -- not the next witness but certainly a witness coming up.

HUNT: The next big witness --

MOORE: Right.

HUNT: -- probably.

MOORE: And that -- they're having to rest their case and tie everything up with Michael Cohen as the bow. And that is to say he's going to come in and say well, Trump knew about this. Trump told me to do this. Trump knew that the records were false. It was a big scheme to do it.

But you're having to sort of base your case on somebody whose credibility has already got some problems.

HUNT: Sure.

MOORE: So that's an issue for them going forward.

HUNT: Of course. All right, Michael Moore. Thanks for being here on a Friday.

MOORE: A pleasure to be with you.

HUNT: I really appreciate it.

All right, now this. Donald Trump is, of course, back in court today. President Biden is raising campaign cash out West on a fundraising trip.

Politics were in the courtroom. Trump ally, Florida's Republican Sen. Rick Scott, joined the former president in New York yesterday, calling Trump a victim of political persecution.

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SEN. RICK SCOTT (R-FL): What he is going through is just despicable. It's a crime in this country to use the court system to go after your political opponents. What's happening in this courtroom is clearly criminal.

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HUNT: President Biden, meanwhile, signaling he is ready to debate Trump.

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REPORTER: Mr. President, when will you debate President Trump? When?

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Set it up.

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HUNT: Set it up.

Joining me now to discuss, Axios publisher, Nicholas Johnston. Nic, good morning.

NICHOLAS JOHNSTON, PUBLISHER, AXIOS: Good morning.

HUNT: Do we believe -- do we believe Biden on the debate time?

JOHNSTON: I mean, that didn't seem like a really answer to that. I think I saw the back of his head and you had to subtitle it. It's the same thing he told on the Howard Stern show. Like, sure, I'll debate any time. I'm approaching all of this with a bit of an air of skepticism right now.

Of course, Donald Trump wants to do that. I think Donald Trump was on Truth Social yesterday saying I'll come to the White House and debate President Biden. That's all theatrics and I don't think there's any reason for the president to actually go and debate a challenger. Remember, Donald Trump didn't debate anyone during the primaries. He rejected all of the party's debates because he was the guy winning.

HUNT: Well, right. But now we're talking about the Commission on Presidential Debates -- the three major --

JOHNSTON: I mean, are these -- I mean, if set it up is a Commission on Presidential Debates.

HUNT: That's fair.

JOHNSTON: And I think there's a whole lot to unpack here as far as would they mano a mano, like on a streetcorner somewhere, which I think Donald Trump wants. And then, would Donald Trump accept the conditions placed on him by the Commission on Presidential Debates? The president, even during the last election, was -- the former president was very kind of back and forth on whether he would even participate in those.

So I think it's very much an open question. I don't think there's any reason that the Biden campaign thinks this is something they should do now. The president -- while Donald Trump is sitting in court, the b- matter (PH) footage you have of former President Trump every day is home standing in front of a courtroom. Why give him a stage next to a sitting president right now?

So I think this is going to be a lot of noise. A lot of back-and-forth on social media -- on social media. A lot of reporters shouting at the president as he walks out of a room. And, of course, he'll say sure, let's do it any time. They're not going to debate until the fall.

HUNT: If -- right. But then again, if. If they do it --

JOHNSTON: Right.

HUNT: -- it would be in the fall.

So, speaking of a lot of back-and-forth on social media -- and look, part of the reason why the president's team wouldn't want to debate Trump is because they're concerned about playing into the president's biggest weakness -- one his biggest weaknesses with voters, which is that he looks old --

JOHNSTON: Right.

HUNT: -- sometimes and that, at least, voters perceive him that way.

The campaign trying to keep itself young by producing videos like this one for Instagram -- watch.

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BIDEN-HARRIS CAMPAIGN AD:

It's always been about love and hate. Now let me say I'm the biggest hater. I hate the way that you walk, the way that you talk. I hate the way that you dress. I hate the way that you speak diss. If I catch flight --

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HUNT: Surprised?

JOHNSTON: I had not seen that before because I am not on TikTok. Look, I think the -- I hope the youth like it.

HUNT: I hadn't seen it either until someone younger than me found it and decided it would be interesting.

JOHNSTON: I mean, I think there's been a lot of discussion about President Biden's support among youth voters. What is the impact of that, particularly on the war in the Middle East? We've seen a lot of the protests on college campuses. How much of that is driving?

[05:40:04}

I actually do that with a little grain of salt. We had a poll in Axios last week that kind of looked at what young voters had as their top priorities. The Middle East was at the end -- at the bottom of that. They talked a lot -- they were interested in a lot of things that I think spoke more to the president's strengths. Issues like health care reform and the student loan forgiveness. Remember what the president has done -- billions of dollars of that being challenged in the courts.

But I think that's great politics for them. And so, I think they're definitely moving in that direction. That looked like an interesting video for youth, but I don't know if it played to my demographic exactly.

HUNT: I guess we're acknowledging that we're not the youth anymore.

JOHNSTON: Exactly.

HUNT: We used to be.

So let's talk about how this trial is playing. Obviously, you had Stormy Daniels with this tweet we were just talking about with Michael Moore. "Real men respond to testimony by being sworn in --

JOHNSTON: Yeah.

HUNT: -- and taking the stand in court. Oh, wait. Never mind."

Does that get under his skin?

JOHNSTON: Oh, I thought was Michael said was very interesting about having to navigate your clients. Like, an approach that he suggested about how you would cross-examine Stormy Daniels would be very interesting, but it would not be an approach that I think Donald Trump would have liked. And so there's a very interesting dynamic here.

Remember, Donald Trump does not have to take the stand. Would it be good for Donald Trump to take the stand in his case? I think his attorneys would advise against it. But we've covered president -- we've covered Donald Trump for many, many, many years and one of the things we've written about a lot at Axios and many other people have written about is does he listen to his advisers? Does he do what his advisers think are a good idea? Does he think he's the right person to figure all of this kind of stuff?

That, I'm sure, Donald Trump is thinking right here looking at those tweets. I mean, like, I want to get on the stand and defend myself. I don't know if his lawyer is looking forward to that.

HUNT: All right, Nicholas Johnston for us. Nic, thank you very much for being here.

JOHNSTON: Good morning. Thanks.

HUNT: I really appreciate it.

All right. Coming up next, House Speaker Mike Johnson hoping President Biden's view on Israel is a "senior moment."

Plus --

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NBA ANNOUNCER: Mitchell gets it off. (INAUDIBLE).

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HUNT: The Cleveland Cavaliers getting even with the Celtics. Our Bleacher Report's ahead.

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[05:46:22]

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BIDEN: I've made it clear that if they go into Rafah -- they haven't gone into Rafah yet, but if they go into Rafah, I'm not supplying the weapons that have been used historically to deal with Rafah, to deal with the cities, to deal with that problem.

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HUNT: All right. President Biden's warning not to give Israel offensive weapons if they go forward with their invasion of Rafah has unleashed swift and sharp backlash from both parties on Capitol Hill.

House Speaker Mike Johnson telling Politico that Biden's comments were "a complete turn" from what he'd been told. Johnson says, "...24 hours ago, it was confirmed to me by the top administration officials that the policy's very different than what he stated there. So I hope that's a senior moment."

Some colleagues in the Senate also piling on.

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SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN (D-PA): I don't agree with the president. I'm concerned that in some sense -- some way -- it demonstrates to Hamas that they are winning the P.R. war.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think it's unwise.

SEN. CHUCK GRASSLEY (R-IA): I think that it's a complete reversal that's politically oriented because he's up for reelection.

SEN. THOM TILLIS (R-NC): Hey, how about this, President Biden? Why don't you actually lead and stop being -- stop making decisions based on polls.

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Are you comfortable with the president holding shipment to Israel?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think he should release it.

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HUNT: All right, joining me now is Mariana Alfaro. She's national politics breaking news reporter for The Washington Post. Mariana, good morning to you. Thank you for being here.

What do you make of this apparent discrepancy that Johnson is talking about? He is claiming that he's hearing something about policy that's different from what the president said in the interview on CNN.

MARIANA ALFARO, NATIONAL POLITICS BREAKING NEWS REPORTER, THE WASHINGTON POST (via Webex by Cisco): Um-hum. I think everything moved really fast and it kind of just took Republicans by surprise if it happens. (INAUDIBLE) Johnson in this interview where he said this was kind of a -- you know, it was political, right, after he survived that attempt by Marjorie Taylor Greene to be removed from office. So he was kind of in very buoyant spirits.

But this is not new for Republicans who kind of tackle Biden's policies, especially when it shifts so quickly over his age.

But I think the part specifically here that drew my attention is that it's not like the Biden administration didn't have warning signs. Lloyd Austin, the Defense secretary, did say that -- in a Senate panel that the bomb shipment was being withheld because Israel hadn't produced a plan to protect Palestinians in Rafah.

So I think that there's been a little bit of not being able to keep track of everything that's going on. But it's not super shocking that Johnson would say that. It's more shocking that they're not in kind of an unseen place when it comes to this policy right now.

HUNT: Yeah. Republicans are casting this as betrayal. Their official social media accounts putting out the picture from yesterday's Washington Post -- excuse me, New York Post, which had betrayal kind of plastered across it.

Senator Lindsey Graham has also -- was also quoted as saying that he trusts Israel more than the trusts American -- the top American defense official. Listen to this.

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SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): Israel's being asked to turn the warfighting over to the United States. Let us plan how to do this, not you. That is a huge mistake. Number one, I trust Israel more than I trust Austin.

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HUNT: That, of course, Lloyd Austin, the Defense secretary.

What do you make of Graham's comments?

ALFARO: Yeah. I think right now that it's just this idea that the Senate and the House -- especially the Republicans, are doing their part to get Israel funded and they're all kind of really leaning on this and they're Israel's top ally. And in order to -- and to see this from the U.S., especially the Biden administration who has kind of been teetering in that spot right between, like, supporting Israel but also responding to a lot of the purchase of demands to continue protecting -- protect Palestinian lives there.

[05:50:13]

I think that that's become like a very deep contrast for Republicans to lean on, and I think that's kind of what we're seeing here.

But Graham has always been a very staunch hawk over there. And so I think that they're trying to really think that and to kind of show their supporters that they continue leaning on -- they continue supporting Israel no matter what.

HUNT: What do you see as kind of the next turn here for Congress in terms of this? Because obviously, for the House Speaker Johnson, this was an important part of negotiations that led to a major foreign aid bill hitting the floor.

ALFARO: Well, right now, I think -- because we're still in the kind of aftermath of that bill passing and there's still a little bit of debate over how much he should have funded Ukraine on the other side. And again, after surviving this, again, attempt by Marjorie Taylor Greene to stay in power.

I think that there will still be -- I think in the next week a lot of debate over what Biden and the administration are doing in terms of this response to Rafah and the attack, and the potential movements from Israel there.

But for now, I think that they're trying to see the dust settle. I think that that's what we're going to see next week. So many expect a little bit more of this, like, back-and-forth between the White House and Republicans in Congress, but when it comes to policy, I think that right now we're still waiting to see -- we're still in the back of that big package passing the show recently.

HUNT: All right, Mariana Alfaro of The Washington Post. Mariana, thanks very much for your time this morning. All right, time now for sports. The Cavaliers bounced back in a big way to even their series with the Celtics at a game apiece.

Andy Scholes has this morning's Bleacher Report. Andy, good morning.

ANDY SCHOLES, CNN SPORTS ANCHOR: Yeah, good morning, Kasie. Happy Friday.

The Celtics -- they're huge favorites to beat the Cavs and go on to the Eastern Conference Finals. But so far in this playoffs, Boston has just not shown up for games. They lost to Miami in round one in game two.

And last night this game was tied at halftime. The Cavs, a huge third quarter. Donovan Mitchell and Darius Garland just catching fire combining to go seven of eight on three-pointers in the third.

The Celtics, meanwhile -- they went 0-8 from deep in the period. And Mitchell putting an exclamation mark on the period, crossing over Tatum there and draining the three at the buzzer.

Mitchell finished with a game-high 29 as the Cavs would run away with this one winning by 24 and sending the series back to Cleveland tied at a game apiece.

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DONOVAN MITCHELL, GUARD, CLEVELAND CAVALIERS: I mean, it's always good to get a win on the road. But at the end of the day, it's one game and we've got to go take care of the home court.

AL HORFORD, FORWARD, BOSTON CELTICS: Well, we expected them to play better and they did. They were the better team tonight and we have to give (INAUDIBLE). They responded and we didn't.

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SCHOLES: All right, Luka Doncic of the Mavs also bouncing back to even their series with the Thunder. Luka already dealing with a sore knee. And a minute into this game -- well, they had to make sure that he still had all of his teeth. Look at this. Luka getting tripped up and face plants -- ouch. That didn't slow home down, though. Luka scoring 16 points in the first quarter.

P.J. Washington was also on fire early. He scored 19 of his playoff career-best -- 29 in the first half.

OKC did make a game of this in the third but ultimately, Luka was just too much. Twenty-nine points, 10 boards, seven assists for him.

The Mavs home court handing the Thunder their first playoff loss, 119- 110.

Meanwhile, on the ice, another thriller in the Stanley Cup Playoffs. Carolina was down 2-0 in the series and 2-1 with time running out when Andrei Svechnikov comes up in the clutch for the Canes, putting home the game-tying goal with just over a minute and a half left to force overtime.

But just 90 seconds into O.T., Artemi Panarin answers for the boys in blue, deflecting the shot from Vincent Trocheck in for the 3-2 win as the Rangers stay perfect in the postseason. They're now 7-0 and can complete the sweep tomorrow night at 7:00 Eastern on our sister channel TNT.

Elsewhere, Nelly Korda chasing history this weekend trying to become the first ever to win six-straight starts on the LPGA Tour. The 25- year-old from Florida off to a steady start -- four birdies and just one bogey in her opening round at the Cognizant Founders Cup. Korda six shots back of the lead as she is getting ready to go out there for round two later today.

And more than 13,000 fans showing up to watch Caitlin Clark's preseason home opener for the Indiana Fever last night. Clark scoring just 12 points in this one. She made just two of nine three-pointers. Indiana did get the win over Atlanta.

And Clark, afterwards, loving her new home crowd.

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CAITLIN CLARK, GUARD, INDIANA FEVER: I thought they were loud. I thought they were into it. It was fun to see. Some people in some Iowa stuff, and then a lot of people in Fever gear. And, like, this is a preseason game on a Thursday night and there's 13,000 people here. Like, I think that just shows what it's going to be like for us all season and it's going to help us.

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SCHOLES: All right. And finally, Kasie, the people of Oklahoma City -- they're just really good at half-court shots. Another fan -- this time, 27-year-old Matt Sanders, knocked one down last night to win $20,000. This was the third time in four playoff games, Kasie, that a fan has made the half-court shot.

[05:55:13]

I don't know what it is. I don't know what it is that the people of Oklahoma City --

HUNT: I was going to say oh my God. That's amazing. I mean, are they going to stop paying for this at some point?

SCHOLES: I mean, that bank might be regretting that promotion that they're doing.

HUNT: What's in the water?

SCHOLES: Sure.

HUNT: All right, Andy. Thank you very much.

SCHOLES: All right. HUNT: Have a great weekend.

Coming up next here, why the judge in Donald Trump's hush money trial rejected his motion for a mistrial. Plus, CNN's exclusive interview with President Biden drawing a defiant response from the prime minister of Israel.

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