Return to Transcripts main page

CNN This Morning

Michael Cohen to Return to Stand after Day of Testimony; Today: More Jury Selection in Menendez Corruption Case; Controlled Demo to Free Ship from Collapsed Wreckage. Aired 6-6:30a ET

Aired May 14, 2024 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[06:00:00]

KASIE HUNT, CNN ANCHOR: It's Tuesday, May 14. Right now on CNN THIS MORNING, Donalds defense team preparing to cross-examine Michael Cohen? Can they convince the jury that the star witness is not to be trusted?

Plus --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(EXPLOSION)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: A blast team tries to free the cargo ship that collapsed Baltimore's Key Bridge.

And --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And then you need to kick that (EXPLETIVE DELETED) door down.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: The vice-presidential F-bomb. Kamala Harris, uncensored. We censored her.

Six a.m. here in Washington. A live look at New York City on this Tuesday morning, where that hush money trial set to get back underway just a few hours from now.

Good morning, everyone. I'm Kasie Hunt. It's wonderful to have you with us. This is the day, we think, that Donald Trump's legal team has been preparing for, the day they could get to cross-examine Michael Cohen and try to convince a jury that he simply cannot be believed.

Trump's former lawyer and fixer returns to the stand this morning after testifying on Monday about payments that were made to kill potentially damaging stories about Trump, all he says at the direction of his former boss, in the final critical days before the 2016 election.

His testimony designed to show just how close he was to Trump; involved in talks about the hush money at every turn. The juror has got to hear this conversation between Cohen and Trump about payments made to "Playboy" playmate -- playmate Karen McDougal. It was a conversation that Cohen secretly recorded.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL COHEN, FORMER ATTORNEY FOR DONALD TRUMP: Correct. So I'm -- I'm all over that. And I spoke to Allen about it, when it comes time for the financing, which will be --

DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT, 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Listen, what financing?

COHEN: We'll have to pay him something.

TRUMP: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) pay with cash.

COHEN: No, no, no, no, no, no. I got it. No, no, no.

TRUMP: Check.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: Cohen appeared composed throughout his testimony Monday. In one key exchange with the prosecution, he talked about buying Stormy Daniels' story and how doing so was all about Trump's bid to win the White House.

Cohen testifying this: quote, "So during the negotiation to purchase and acquire the life rights, what he had said to me is: 'What I want you to do is just push it out as long as you can. Just get past the election. Because if I win, it has no relevance. I will be president. If I lose, I don't even care.'"

And then there was this particularly jaw-dropping moment, Cohen telling the court that after the release of the "Access Hollywood" tape, Trump didn't seem to care if Melania left him, telling the jury that Trump told him this: quote, "Don't worry. How long do you think I'll be on the market for? Not long."

Trump did not seem to like any of this at all. He spoke to the media afterward, and he was angrier than we've probably ever seen him during this trial.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: We paid a lawyer a legal expense. A legal expense is a legal expense. It's marked down in the book, quote, "legal expense." It's perfectly marked down.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: Perfectly marked down for stuff like that from Trump before. All right. Our panel's here: former federal prosecutor Elliot Williams; Molly Ball, senior political correspondent at "The Wall Street Journal"; conservative columnist Scott Jennings; and Sarah Matthews, former deputy White House press secretary under President Trump. Welcome all.

Well, yesterday was a fun one. Today promises to be another one. Elliot, what did you make, especially of this -- the question of what he thought about and how -- whether or not he cared about Melania is actually a really central one to the prosecution.

ELLIOT WILLIAMS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Right. Because prosecution has to establish that there was a political motive perhaps beyond or -- or in addition to the personal one.

Now, any reasonable person would want to keep such information of extra-marital affairs away from their spouse. But the question is, did this particular person also intend to keep this material away from voters?

And what you saw yesterday was so far the most direct evidence of that in the form of those conversations. And that recorded conversation between Cohen and Trump.

Now, to be clear, it was the prosecution's evidence. It was friendly questioning back and forth. He has not been cross-examined about it yet. It's purely his memory of a conversation. And you are certainly not going to hear testimony from the other person who was there, because Donald Trump will not, quite frankly, should not testify.

So right now it's perfectly good evidence, but it can have poke -- holes poked in it. And as he said, with cross-examinations starting, I think that's when you'll see it.

HUNT: Scott Jennings --

SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes.

HUNT: This is a guy that -- you know, he's the presumptive Republican nominee for president. It's -- it's reminding everyone of kind of what we went through as a country when he was president of the United States. And I'm just kind of curious, how do you feel about defending him with these allegations out there?

[06:05:10]

JENNINGS: Well, there's -- nothing new has happened here. I think what you're seeing, such a muted reaction from people is because it's already priced in. It's baked into his candidacy. It's baked into who he is. Nothing -- we know all of this. And, you know, I don't have to -- and no Republican really has to defend anyone's personal behavior to make this --

HUNT: There are a bunch of Republicans standing up behind him, you know. JENNINGS: Well, but they're not necessarily defending his personal

behavior, but they would say things like this case should have never been brought. This is a terrible court. This prosecutor is a partisan hack, whatever.

And they would also say this. I don't care about sex paperwork, but I do care about that the president has driven us to an inflationary crisis and is going wobbly on our ally, Israel.

You're going to see Republicans all over the country make that argument. And I think whether he is convicted; whether the jury is hung; whether he's acquitted, I think this will move the needle for virtually no one.

SARAH MATTHEWS, FORMER DEPUTY PRESS SECRETARY FOR TRUMP WHITE HOUSE: You don't think if he's convicted, it's not going to make a difference at all.

I mean, there was a CNN poll that showed that 24 percent of Trump backers said that, if there is a conviction, that they would reconsider their support. I will admit that doesn't mean that they are going to change their support, but they would reconsider.

And I mean, on an election, that's going to be on the margins. And I think you would be worried about every vote.

JENNINGS: If you -- if you are someone who -- I'm trying to envision the voter who would go to the polls, say, You know, I was going to vote for Donald Trump, but then I found out he got the paperwork wrong, because he had sex with Stormy. I don't know who that person is.

HUNT: I don't think anyone.

JENNINGS: I don't know who that person is.

HUNT: I don't think the "paperwork wrong" thing is -- I mean, to Sarah's point, I mean, he would be convicted for -- the perception is not going to be that there was a paperwork thing.

MATTHEWS: The president being a convicted felon.

JENNINGS: What's he being convicted for, then? If it's not a paperwork, what's he being --

HUNT: I understand that you are technically correct. I just think -- anyone consumes this, it's like --

JENNINGS: The problem with this case is no one can explain what he's actually being convicted for. It was obvious that the case was brought so they could put people on the stand to try to personally embarrass him.

HUNT: They were paying -- they were paying her to keep quiet so that voters, particularly women, wouldn't think badly of Trump before the election. JENNINGS: October -- October of 2016, no one -- no one knew that Donald Trump had had sex with lots of women out there, some of whom were not his wife.

HUNT: Well, but look --

JENNINGS: No one could have possibly known.

HUNT: But look. So Cohen testified to this yesterday, right? He says of Trump, "Trump said this to me," quote, "'This is a disaster." This is in the wake of the Hollywood tape. ""This is a disaster, a total disaster. Women are going to hate me, because this is really a disaster. Women will hate me, and guys may think it's cool, but it's going to be a disaster for the campaign.'"

And Sarah, the thing that saved him was his wife, Melania Trump. Here she was talking to Anderson Cooper.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: He described it as, as locker-room talk to you. I mean, you sort of alluded to that. as well. Is that what it is to you, just locker-room talk?

MELANIA TRUMP, WIFE OF DONALD TRUMP: Yes. It -- it's kind of two teenage boys. Actually, they should behave better, right?

COOPER: He was 59.

M. TRUMP: Correct. And sometimes I said I have two boys at home. I have my young son, and I have my husband. So -- but I know how some men talk, and that's -- that's how I saw it, yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: And so that, in October right before the election, is what gives Trump a lifeline with women, Sarah Matthews.

So Cohen testifies to this yesterday. He was asked by the prosecutor, "Did you bring up, at the time, the topic of his wife, Melania, in one of those conversations with Mr. Trump?"

And again, we're talking about the "Access Hollywood" period, as all the Stormy Daniels stuff is going down. Cohen says, "I did."

"What, if anything, did he say to you about that?" the prosecutor asks.

Cohen: "'Don't worry,' he goes. He goes, 'How long do you think I will be on the market for it? Not long.'"

Hoffinger: "What did you understand that to mean?"

Cohen: "He was not thinking about Melania. This was all about the campaign." I mean, Sarah, you have seen how this man interacts in private, talks

about his wife and women. Who is telling the truth here about what's really going on?

MATTHEWS: Yes. I mean, I think Stormy Daniels's testimony also kind of backed up what Michael Cohen is saying. She testified to the fact that Donald Trump told her that him and Melania didn't sleep in the same bed. And then -- now you have Cohen. This saying -- it kind of flies in the face of what Trump's defense is, that he was solely concerned with the opinion of his wife.

And what I will say, too, is that I think the biggest piece of evidence is that Melania Trump isn't here. She's not going to be probably attending the trial. And I think that the jury is going to take notice of that.

Now, look, she hasn't even supported him on the campaign trail. So I definitely would not really expect her to show up and be in the courtroom, especially when all of these kinds of salacious details are coming out.

But I do think that the jury is going to take notice of that. And I don't think that bears well for him, then.

HUNT: Different than the "stand by your man" era of politics, Molly, I guess.

[06:10:01]

MOLLY BALL, SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT, "THE WALL STREET JOURNAL": Well, that's the reason that that phrase exists, right? Because it is a powerful thing when a woman stands by her man, despite these kinds of allegations.

Look, I think there -- on the one hand, I think that Scott's right that a lot of people do regard this as old news, right?

HUNT: Yes.

BALL: And we see --

HUNT: I mean, it is literally old.

BALL: It is literally --

HUNT: The story is literally old.

BALL: This literally happened a long time ago.

HUNT: The trial is new. The story is old.

BALL: I mean, those "New York Times" battleground polls yesterday, only 29 percent of voters say that they're closely following this trial. I think a lot of people have tuned it out for that reason, saying, why are we hearing about this again? On the other hand, you know, Trump hasn't won an election since this

came out. And -- and for a lot of the sort of cross-pressured voters in this election, a lot of them, I think, are your classic -- my demographic, the suburban women, right? Your sort of independent, centrist, maybe conservative-leaning suburban women who have always felt a little queasy about supporting Trump.

And this brings that -- brings a lot of that back up. Reminds them of a lot of what they -- they didn't like about him. Those are -- that's the main voting group that has moved toward the Democrats in this day and age and -- and cause this realignment that's the basis of their new coalitions.

So if that goes wobbly for Trump, it could be a problem.

HUNT: All right. We have a lot more to talk about this morning. Coming up next, gold bars, a luxury car in exchange for favors. These are, of course, some of the wild allegations as jury selection for Senator Bob Menendez's corruption trial continues today.

Plus bodycam footage captures the immediate reaction of officers responding to the Baltimore bridge collapse.

And why you won't hear Rudy Giuliani's talk show on the New York airwaves anymore.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:16:01]

HUNT: Welcome back. The Trump trial, not the only trial that we are covering today, as jury selection is going to continue today in the trial against New Jersey Senator Bob Menendez, Democrat. He is accused of taking bribes and acting as an agent for a foreign government.

It is his second bribery and corruption trial in just seven years. But you've probably seen the things that make this one unique. You are seeing them again on your screen.

These are the things that prosecutors say Menendez received: gold bars, cash, a luxury car, among other things, in exchange for favors.

Menendez has pled not guilty and said this to CNN's Manu Raju on Capitol Hill last week.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Any thoughts about the trial as we head into next week?

SEN. BOB MENENDEZ (D-NJ): I'm looking forward to proving my innocence.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: OK. Elliot Williams, you get to do -- you know, trials across the spectrum -- (CROSSTALK)

HUNT: -- this morning. This -- how tight is this case against Menendez? Because obviously the evidence is very -- I mean, the pictures of the evidence, the jacket that's got his name on it, and there's -- and you know, envelopes of cash in the pockets.

WILLIAMS: Right.

HUNT: It's all very sort of made for television.

WILLIAMS: Made for television.

HUNT: But what do they have on them for real?

WILLIAMS: Let me give you a quick lesson on circumstantial evidence. To establish that someone received a payment in gold for doing something unlawful, you can have a letter from the person or a confession from the person that says, I received gold to do something illegal.

Or you can search their computer and have the words, How much does a kilogram of gold bring me in money, right?

And that's sort of what this case is. There's plenty of compelling evidence showing some rather disgraceful conduct by -- alleging rather disgraceful conduct by a U.S. senator.

And based on what we've seen here -- and this gets back to what we were talking about in the last block, it's from the prosecution. It hasn't been challenged yet. But what's on the page is certainly damning against the senator.

And that's why, I think, I believe half of his colleagues in the Democratic Party in the Senate have called for him to resign, and the other ones run away when the question is asked because of how problematic the charges are.

HUNT: Yes. Well, and we can play one person who has called for him to resign. And look, I think it's also worth noting that this guy is the former chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, which makes taking bribes from foreign entities, like, that much more potentially problematic.

But here was John Fetterman. We should note from -- I'm -- I mostly grew up in Pennsylvania. There's a little bit of a rivalry between Pennsylvania and New Jersey. But either way, Fetterman does not mince words when he talks about this. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN (D-PA): His -- did anyone wish Menendez good luck for next week, for that sleazeball?

(END VIDEO CLIP) HUNT: Sleazeball? I mean, Scott Jennings, like, the reality is this is something that does -- I mean -- and there are a number of his Democratic colleagues that have not called on him to step down. This is something that does impact his ability to do his job as a senator.

JENNINGS: Yes, here's a real felony we can talk about. I mean, this -- this is massively consequential. Very few people in the country are talking about it. And the political aspect that so many Democrats refuse to deal with this corruption in their own party.

By the way, I just have to say about Fetterman, I was really hard on him during the campaign. I'm now like --

HUNT: Funny how campaigns do that.

JENNINGS: -- chairman -- I'm like chairman of Republicans for Fetterman. This guy is showing an amazing amount of moral clarity on several issues of the day. This, Israel. If more Democrats would follow him on some of these topics, they'd be better off.

His numbers are way up in Pennsylvania. I think it's because of issues like this. He's just saying sort of what's common sense and true about Menendez here.

But you can't really find any more clarity and courage like that at the leadership of the Democratic Party. It's kind of pathetic.

WILLIAMS: But serious, Scott, most Senate -- Senate Democrats have called for him to resign. I think it's an important point.

The best statement of all was Cory Booker making the point that, look, you have the right to your day in court. You have the right to defend yourself, but that doesn't mean you're entitled to be a senator.

[06:20:04]

And I thank, you know, quite frankly, this notion that being charged with a crime ought to be enough to turn people around as to whether somebody ought to be elected to office.

But still, I think there's, at least with respect to his colleagues, a fair amount of clarity as to the fact that the charges themselves are very damning. He probably shouldn't be a senator anymore.

HUNT: Yes, Booker said, "Stepping down is not an admission of guilt but an acknowledgment that holding public office often demands tremendous sacrifices at great personal cost."

JENNINGS: Where's Schumer on it?

WILLIAMS: Keeping his mouth shut, I think. Rather well.

HUNT: He has -- he has not --

WILLIAMS: Not -- but not giving a full-armed embrace of him. And I think that's a significant -- I'm -- JENNINGS: We got rid of that looney-tunes Santos out of the House.

HUNT: No, that took -- wait.

JENNINGS: And this guy is still a senator.

HUNT: That took a -- quite a situation to get that to happen.

WILLIAMS: Yes. I don't know if George Santos is -- is the burn you think it is.

JENNINGS: He's not here, and Menendez is. We would be --

HUNT: But what did it take to get Santos out?

JENNINGS: We would be more safe as a country with Santos in and Menendez out. I mean --

HUNT: And the reason Santos was in for so long is because Kevin McCarthy was protecting him, because he wanted him to be part of the majority.

JENNINGS: He's not here now.

HUNT: What's going on with Senator Schumer, by the way? OK.

Just ahead here, major demolition begins in Baltimore's port as crews begin to clear the major large debris.

Plus, Republicans currying favor with Donald Trump by showing up at his side at his New York hush money trial.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:25:31]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(EXPLOSION)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: Wow, there it goes. That footage was a controlled demolition of a portion of Baltimore's collapsed Key Bridge as the crews work to clear debris from the container ship that collided with it in March.

New body camera video also captures the panic of officers in the chaos of the moment just after the bridge collapsed on May [SIC] -- March 26.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's, like, are you kidding me? It's like, something's missing on the skyline. There's like, no -- there's no -- there whole center span is gone completely. It's in the water.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: Such a wild night. CNN's Gabe Cohen joins us now with more.

Gabe, good morning. Wonderful to have you on set today. You were out there, covering that the day that we were covering this as it was unfolding. The ship [SIC] had, you know, just hours before we had come on the air, collapsed entirely. And the officers were processing that shock.

And now they've tried to work as quickly as possible to clear this channel, to get ships back into the harbor. Where does it stand right now?

GABE COHEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, first off, seeing that video, having been out there that morning, I think everyone laying eyes on that ship for the first time had that same sort of "oh my goodness" moment.

But to see where it is seven weeks later with this demolition, it's a major step forward, for sure, in reopening this channel.

So what we saw yesterday was this controlled demolition of really this one key chunk of the bridge wreckage that was sitting on the bow of the ship, weighing it down, preventing those crews from towing the ship away.

As they broke up all that steel, you can see there's still some debris out there. There's concrete across the bow. Some of that they may have to come in and clear out with cranes. Some of the concrete they'll probably leave on for now.

And the hope is within the next 48 hours, they're going to bring some tugboats over, and they're going to tow away the Dali ship and finally clear it now, seven weeks later.

And again, as officials have said now for weeks, they want to have the entire channel reopened by the end of May. It's still a fluid timeline, but they say they're still on track.

HUNT: And the crew has been living on that ship this whole time?

G. COHEN: Yes. The 21-person crew has been on the Dali the entire time. The governor of Maryland just yesterday said, once the ship gets to shore, finally, they are going to be able to get off. Some of them will be repatriated. We don't -- because many of them are Indian nationals.

HUNT: Right.

G. COHEN: We don't know exactly what that's going to look like.

But that's been a focus for a lot of folks. First of all, they've been on the ship, one, because there's this FBI criminal probe happening, and the FBI confiscated their phones.

They've also been keeping the ship running all this time and keeping it safe for all the investigators and crews that are coming on and off.

HUNT: Wow.

G. COHEN: So they have been on there throughout this entire process. And I know there's concern, without their phones, that they have been disconnected from family members --

HUNT: Sure.

G. COHEN: -- from their bank accounts, all -- all kinds of stuff that they need in their lives.

HUNT: All right. Gabe Cohen for us. Gabe, thanks very much for being here with this update. I appreciate it.

G. COHEN: Thank you.

HUNT: All right. Up next here, footage from golfers running to find shelter as a tornado forms right in front of them. We'll have that and much more in our morning roundup.

Plus, your own personal robot a step closer to reality. I think it's more than just a robot, guys. OpenAI announcing a new version of ChatGPT. Wait till you see what it can do.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:30:00]