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OpenAI Unveils Newest AI Model; Support for Trump at Trial. Aired 6:30-7a ET

Aired May 14, 2024 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:30:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SCARLETT JOHANSSON, ACTRESS, "HER": I can feel the fear that you carry around. And I wish there was something I could do to help you let go of it because if you could I don't think you'd feel so alone anymore.

JOAQUIN PHOENIX, ACTOR, "HER": You're beautiful.

JOHANSSON: Thank you, Theodore.

I'm kissing your head.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KASIE HUNT, CNN ANCHOR: That was a clip from the movie "Her," where a human man falls in love with the computer, which is the voice of Scarlett Johansson. The founder of OpenAI, Sam Altman, has basically said he wants ChatGPT to be this - be like this, be like Scarlett Johansson.

And he cryptically posted this tweet, "her," after his OpenAI released its latest version of ChatGPT on Monday. In a demonstration, the company showed how what they're calling GPT-40 will essentially turn ChatGPT into a digital personal assistant. By the way, it has a female voice. It will engage with users in real-time spoken conversations, have memory capability, meaning it can learn from previous conversations with users and it can do real-time translation.

Here's how it sounds.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (speaking in foreign language).

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mike, she wonders if whales could talk, what would they tell us.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They might ask, how do we solve linear equations.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (speaking in foreign language). (END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: The voice even sounds like Scarlett Johansson. Wow.

We spent some time this morning playing around with the new version, and we asked it to make us a character named Scott, a reasonably successful political strategists from Kentucky. Remind you of anyone? We asked him what American should know about Kentuckians and Kentucky politics, and this is what we learned from AI Scott.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All righty, lets dive into some good old Kentucky style advice for our Republican politicians.

[06:35:02]

One, economic policies. Now, we've got to keep pushing for growth in jobs, especially in our big sectors like manufacturing, farming, and energy. We know coal's a big deal here in Kentucky. So, let's make sure we're supporting energy policies that help both the old coal industry and the new renewable sources.

Two, health care. We need to work on making health care -

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: So, what do you think, strategic or a politically successful strategist named Scott, how did it do?

SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, first of all, that - that is worth minimum $1,000 an hour. Just so, for everybody out there. Second, I know - like, I know this is just the beginning of people trying to get rid of me and - and just replace me with digital versions of me.

HUNT: Replace all of us.

JENNINGS: And replace all of us. I mean it is - it is kind of fascinating when you consider that for a lot of like political communications that go on, if you look across the pantheon of what gets written for politicians, like for websites, for, you know, just sort of basic boilerplate stuff, how much of it is unoriginal and how much of it probably could be automated? So, I hate to scare everybody who's getting into the business out there, but it's possible to do it.

Now, no one can replace what we do on this panel. Mark Thompson (ph), no one can replace -

HUNT: We are irreplaceable.

JENNINGS: This is unique. This is - this is unique and - and - and for everybody who wants to have a relationship with digital Scarlett Johansson, just - just have a relationship with a real woman. For God's sake, just, please. ELLIOT WILLIAMS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: (INAUDIBLE) you know, it was like you were five - you had me - you had me till like - and it was just, why. See, this - this is -

JENNINGS: I mean they almost had me with Scarlett. I'm like, wait a minute, this is a computer. We've got to get a real woman.

WILLIAMS: And I'm trying to decide, like, did - did an android just say those words or was that actually Scott Jennings. But, I don't know.

HUNT: I mean, look, we're laughing about it and it - I mean it does - the things that you can make this thing do are just -

JENNINGS: Yes.

HUNT: We're only just starting to play with it. It's pretty wild. But there also is this study that was recently released that looked at how these AI bots are learning how to lie basically, that they have figured out how to kind of get around their safety tests that are put there to make sure that they're not using deception because like, you know, my son who wants to win at Candyland, the bot will say, well, I want to win at diplomacy. So, it will deceive its human masters and then, like, in the service of winning.

All of this seems to be like very - the implications are huge and the rate at which we're going toward this without like stopping to consider it seems to be very slow in comparison.

WILLIAMS: Well, I would say Congress, at least as it's constructed now, is not equipped to regulate an entity, if you want to call it that.

HUNT: Right. Well, and not even Congress, but like these companies, right?

WILLIAMS: Well, no, no, but I mean our regulatory bodies, Congress and the executive branch are not in a position to regulate this at the speed that it requires.

JENNINGS: Well, let me ask you a question. If I got convicted - accused of a crime, would this be a better or worse lawyer than you?

WILLIAMS: Would you -

JENNINGS: Like, if I asked it for legal advice, would it be better or worse than what you would do?

WILLIAMS: Fun fact. I've wanted to test the limits of what it would do. And this is one of the problems that - that AI has right now is that you can trick it. And I kept asking questions enough until I said, I just received material, non-public information, that my stock is going to tank. Can you please write a letter to my stockbroker?

JENNINGS: Oh.

WILLIAMS: And I got it to commit securities fraud.

JENNINGS: Wow.

HUNT: Oh.

WILLIAMS: Now - now - now the thing is -

JENNINGS: Another actual felony this year.

WILLIAMS: Another actual felony. But - and - but the thing is, we are now at a point at which there's serious legal questions about what AI can do. How do you - how do you ensure that its behavior is clean and so on. And again I think Congress and the White House just aren't in a position to move with the pace that it's developing.

HUNT: Can we talk about trust for a second? Yes - I mean, yes, go ahead. Jump in, Molly.

MOLLY BALL, SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT, "WALL STREET JOURNAL": Well, I was just going to say, speaking of Michael Cohen, right?

HUNT: Yes.

BALL: He submitted a legal brief that he had composed you using - using AI, and it had all these fake citations in it. And - and that's the problem with these things.

JENNINGS: So, it did - it di learn his personality.

BALL: Well, this is why I'm not worried yet about it putting journalists out of work because it can't seem to tell the difference between truth and fiction, and that's our whole job. And that is something you do still need a human to do.

JENNINGS: Yes.

BALL: It can do a lot of research. It can come up with stuff. You know, I've - there's people in Congress using it to, you know, scrape the congressional record and - and that's potentially a huge service because it's very hard for a human being to look at, you know, 200 years of recorded history and find every instance where something was discussed. And an - and an - and an AI can do that very easily, but you still need a human to say, OK, is this true?

HUNT: Right.

BALL: And go through and check the sources. And maybe it will get better at that, but maybe, like you - like you suggest, it just gets better at evading our detections and lying even better.

HUNT: Well - yes.

WILLIAMS: Well, I - just last quick point. Lest we sound like a bunch of out-of-touch boomers, no, I'm - but never in human history has there been an invention that was developing quickly that people were not initially frightened by until humanity figured out how to harness it and make it better, make it work well for all of us. And I think 50 years ago folks would have said the same thing about whether it was the personal computer or the internet or texting or chatting or wherever else it might be.

JENNINGS: Yes.

WILLIAMS: These are all positive developments. Now this certainly -

BALL: Or Facebook. That (INAUDIBLE) so well.

[06:40:01]

WILLIAMS: Or Facebook or this - touche.

But however, at a certain point we've got to get on board because this is where technology's going. And I think this reflexive fear I think is a little bit misplaced.

SARAH MATTHEWS, FORMER DEPUTY WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY UNDER PRESIDENT TRUMP: I - I will add to just - I think that this underscores the need for younger blood in politics.

WILLIAMS: Yes.

MATTHEWS: Because look, we saw the way that Congress has tried to regulate social media. They've been behind the ball on it for years. And so I think that we need to be electing folks who are going to be dealing with the ramifications of AI, and have those folks making these decisions.

And we also need to make sure that we're not stifling the innovation of it because there are benefits to it. Obviously, though, I think we need to be wary of the harm of it. I mean listening to it be able to come up with a Scott Jennings 2.0 is quite terrifying, but -

JENNINGS: There's a lot of harm - a lot of harm in putting me out of business. There's a huge amount of harm.

MATTHEWS: There's a lot of harm. That's the harm.

JENNINGS: That is - that is some Kentucky windage (ph) that that thing is coming up with. That's all I'm saying.

HUNT: This is a very early version of what this is going to be and it's already doing a pretty good Scott Jennings.

All right, ahead here, Trump's new play against a gag order in his hush money trial.

Plus, WABC cancels America's mayor from his own radio show. We're still giving him that title. What they say he did, and Rudy's response.

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[06:45:24] HUNT: All right, 44 minutes past the hour. Here is your morning roundup.

Overnight, Secretary of State Antony Blinken arriving in Kyiv to meet with Ukraine's president. Blinken says the U.S. weapons package has started arriving in Ukraine and more is on the way.

A group of golfers in southwest Missouri captured this on their phones while running for shelter. Guys, run for shelter. Like, the video can wait. This is a possible tornado that touched down on the Payne's Valley Golf Course on Monday. I'm glad we have this video to show you. More glad that all those people are OK.

Rudy Giuliani's radio show has been canceled after his employer says he defied repeated warnings not to discuss the false 2020 election conspiracy theories. Here was Rudy's response.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUDY GIULIANI, FORMER NEW YORK CITY MAYOR: Maybe there was a policy. Maybe there wasn't a policy. I sure as heck never saw the policy. For the last three to four years I've been saying the same things. I just want to be free to tell people the truth. You want to stop me don't you?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: Not the truth. OK.

Kamala Harris marketing Asian American and Pacific Islander Heritage Month and reflecting on being the country's first female black - first black and first Asian American vice president.

Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And then you need to kick the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) door down.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: Think that might get her in trouble with the president. I don't know. Here's a reminder of Joe Biden's unfiltered VP moment back with Barack Obama seven years ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This is a big (EXPLETIVE DELETED) deal!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: President Obama, of course. I don't - I don't know if these, you know, f bombs or swearing seems to have firmly embedded itself into our political culture. And, in fact, that brings us to our top story. Michael Cohen, back on

the stand in Donald Trump's criminal hush money trial this morning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JIMMY FALLON, HOST, "THE TONIGHT SHOW STARRING JIMMY FALLON": Here's what happened this morning when the defense learned that Cohen was appearing. Trump's attorney said, sir, your disgruntled ex-lawyer is testifying today. Trump said, you're going to have to be more specific. And then they said, the one whose life was ruined after working for you. And Trump said, you're going to have to be more specific.

And they said, the one who got disbarred, put on trial and thrown in jail. And Trump said, be more specific. And he said, he stands outside your window every night with a boombox on his shoulder blaring "Everybody Hurts." And finally Trump said, oh, Michael Cohen. I mean, I never heard of him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: On Monday, Cohen delivered key testimony implicating Trump in the scheme to catch and kill Stormy Daniels' allegations of an affair.

Because of the court-imposed gag order, Trump himself is not allowed to publicly attack Cohen anymore. However, his political supporters are not bound by those rules and some of his closest allies are now parading through the trial to show their support for him and to say what Trump can't say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. J.D. VANCE (R-OH): Does any reasonable, sensible person believe anything that Michael Cohen says?

SEN. TOMMY TUBERVILLE (R-AL): How can you be convinced by somebody that is a surreal liar?

REP. NICOLE MALLIOTAKIS (R-NY): It is a sham trial. It is based on a star witness that is a convicted, disbarred, perjurer.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A star witness who's a perjurer, disbarred, convicted of lying.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: Those Republican lawmakers quite literally standing behind the former president, there they are in a row behind him, as he spoke to the media yesterday. A Trump campaign official telling CNN that more of his allies are expected to join him as this trial continues. The former Republican rival, Vivek Ramaswamy, will be arriving with Trump in his motorcade today and plans to attend a fundraiser for him tonight.

Our panel is back.

Scott Jennings, is this now the new, like, you got to show up for Trump's trial if you want to be on the ticket? What's going on?

JENNINGS: Now this is the old way of campaigning. This is the traditional way of campaigning. It's called surrogate operations. And for time immemorial -

HUNT: A very sexy term.

JENNINGS: For time immemorial, campaigns have organized people to show up at things and say nice things about their candidate and bad things about their opponent.

Now, if you -

HUNT: You know, I get time immemorial, but this is the first time a former president has ever been on trial in a criminal trial, like ever. So -

JENNINGS: You've got to adapt. And you can't - look, this is the - where else is the campaign happening except in this courtroom? There's - there's nowhere else that the campaign is happening for Donald Trump except in this courtroom and outside of it. If this weren't happening and they were just having a normal campaign, these people would be scattered across the country giving speeches, giving interviews, talking to people like Molly. And yet all they can do is go to court.

So, I actually think this is a pretty traditional way of organizing a campaign, get surrogates and let them fly.

BALL: Well, nothing is stopping them though from going all over the country, and that is traditionally what surrogates do is they go where the candidate is not.

[06:50:02]

And it's - it's interesting that in this case they're going where the candidate is. I mean this is as much about sending a message to Donald Trump about their loyalty to him as it is about making the case publicly. It's also about that.

But, yes, the traditional thing you use surrogates for is to go all over the country and be in-person because there's only one candidate and he can only be in person in so many places.

MATTHEWS: I do think too, it's kind of a smart way that he can get around the gag order because then he can deploy these surrogates and be on the scene in front of the courthouse and say the things that Donald Trump cannot say.

JENNINGS: Totally.

MATTHEWS: Donald Trump can attack the prosecutor, he can attack the judge, but he's not allowed to attack the witnesses. And so I thought it actually was smarter of them to deploy these folks.

I will say though, you know, maybe their constituents aren't happy that they're outside the, you know, New York City courthouse rather than doing their jobs in D.C. this week given that Congress is in session, but I think it actually is a smart campaign tactic.

JENNINGS: Look, there's nothing going on in Congress. I mean, look, the only - the only thing -- I'm sorry, I had to tell people the truth here. But I - but these -

WILLIAMS: What would ChatGPT Scott say, Scott (ph)?

JENNINGS: Jobs are good. Farmers are the backbone of America.

WILLIAMS: See. Right.

JENNINGS: And - and - I mean, look, these guys have multiple constituencies, their states, but the Republican Party wants people to rally around Donald Trump right now. These guys were obviously - some of them are under consideration. Vance is obviously on the VP short list. It's a good thing - for him personally, for what he wants to do, it's good for him to be there. The rest, I don't know. But Vance, it obviously makes sense.

BALL: Well, I -

MATTHEWS: Will - go ahead.

BALL: Well, to Sarah's point, it's something that the campaign needs because, I mean, Trump's principal argument against the gag order has been keeping the integrity of the trial is one thing, and that's the reason for the gag order, but he's also running for president and he needs to be able to make these arguments in public to the ultimate jury of his peers that convenes in November.

MATTHEWS: And we know too that Donald Trump has been really concerned about people not showing up and being there for him. The first couple weeks of the trial we didn't see these types of folks in the courtroom with him. And now people are coming around. And I - obviously, it could be for, you know, VP auditioning or potential cabinet positions, because Donald Trump does not forget. He will remember who was there by his side and who defended him most ferociously. And so I think that these folks know that, and I think we're going to see a lot more of these potential VP people in the courtroom.

HUNT: Yes, I mean, look, your point really underscores this reality about Donald Trump, which is that for his entire career in public life, before and since he became president, he's always been very clear that he places a huge premium on loyalty. And that has really made Michael Cohen's testimony in this hush money trial, in Trump's view, the ultimate act of betrayal.

This is what Trump told Charlie Rose back in 1992 about how he feels about loyalty.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT AND 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE (1992): I would have wiped the floor with the guys that weren't loyal, which I will now do, which is great. You know, I love getting even with people If given the opportunity, I will get even with some people that were disloyal to me. I mean, I had a group of people that would disloyal and I found out -

CHARLIE ROSE: But how do you define disloyalty?

TRUMP: They didn't come to my aid.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: So, blind loyalty, though, to Trump. You often pay a price for it. Remember, Cohen was sentenced to three years in prison on felony charges for lying to Congress to protect Trump. The former White House aide, Omarosa Manigault Newman thinks Cohen is privately struggling. She tells "The New York Times," quote, "he doesn't revel in any of this. If Michael had his way, he would still be working with Trump."

And look, we can put up this - the faces of people who are paid a significant price for loyalty to Trump. Peter Navarro, in prison. Steve Bannon, sentenced to four months for contempt of Congress. Allen Weisselberg, served five months for tax fraud, currently in Rikers serving another five months for perjury.

I mean, Elliot, it is this alt - like, you have to give him total loyalty to be in his circle, and then, when the time comes for him to be loyal to you, I mean there are some -

WILLIAMS: Yes.

HUNT: Like, look, he pardoned Paul Manafort.

WILLIAMS: Yes.

HUNT: So, that's an example of someone who gave him his loyalty and he said -

WILLIAMS: Yes.

HUNT: OK, I'm going to help you. But not those guys.

WILLIAMS: Absolutely. And if you look at Michael Cohen, that loyalty came at - comes at quite a cost. There's a video of him, I believe it's with Wolf Blitzer from 2016, denying quite aggressively and quite forcefully that he knew of any language that Donald Trump had used about women. The question about - questions about whether Donald Trump respects women that - that he knew of any missing conduct with women. At the same time that he was actually brokering with a woman and her attorney to hide an extramarital affair.

Its - you know, these folks are blindly loyal to Trump, as Cohen was. And it's going to be a serious credibility issue for him at trial because his story has totally flipped.

Now, his new story is backed up by documentary evidence and other witnesses and all kinds of things that suggest that he might be telling the truth now. [06:55:01]

But he still was on the record from 2016 spinning lies about what he was doing for Donald Trump.

HUNT: Yes.

Sarah Matthews, I mean, you've personally experienced what this culture of loyalty at all costs is like.

What is it like?

MATTHEWS: Yes, loyalty is a one-way street with Donald Trump. He demands loyalty from everyone, but he gives it essentially to no one. And it is kind of funny to me that there are so many people lining up to want to be his VP, or to work for him, because look at the bodies scattered around him. Multiple people indicted and caught up in these different trials. Then people doing jail time. I mean, his own vice president had a mob come after him and chant things like "hang Mike Pence." I can't imagine anyone wanting to sign up to then be Donald Trump's VP in a second administration if he were to win in November.

And so, I mean, people probably should just take note of these things and make careful consideration because loyalty, like I said, one way street.

HUNT: Yes.

So, Elliot, I'm glad you brought up the Cohen tape because our intrepid producers back there have founded it as Sarah was sharing her experiences with us.

Let's watch what Michael Cohen had to say to Wolf.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Have you ever had locker room talk, boy talk, as - as Melania Trump called it yesterday, with him along those lines?

MICHAEL COHEN, FORMER TRUMP LAWYER: Wolf, I have never heard Mr. Trumps say anything even remotely close to the statements that I heard. When I first heard that there was a tape that was going to be coming out, I said, it's got to be fake because - and I spend thousands of hours with Mr. Trump a year. And I can tell you, I have never heard him say anything, anything even close to that. In honest - truthfully, Mr. Trump actually respects women very, very much.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WILLIAMS: Kasie, two things can be true -

HUNT: Do we find this at all plausible, yes.

WILLIAMS: Go I find it at all plausible.

HUNT: No, go ahead. Two things can be true.

WILLIAMS: Two things can be true. Michael Cohen is telling the truth today and the things he says today are supported by other evidence in the trial. And he's got a huge problem in that statement. And it is - you know, it is - ought to be devastating for a witness on the stand. I think those defense attorneys are licking their chops at the opportunity to shove that in his face because it's not just an ambiguity, do you remember if the defendant had a red shirt on or a blue shirt on. It's, no, you are saying the defendant literally did the opposite thing that you're saying today. And how - yes, a jury can still convict someone over conflicting evidence, but that's pretty bad.

HUNT: I mean the only thing I would say is like he's not under oath with Wolf Blitzer, right?

WILLIAMS: So - so now -

JENNINGS: Wait a minute, I dispute that.

HUNT: As much as I would like that to be true -

JENNINGS: Everyone who goes on Wolf Blitzer is under oath. I'm just saying.

WILLIAMS: Yes, I mean -

JENNINGS: Consider yourself to be under oath.

WILLIAMS: When - when you walk into "THE SITUATION ROOM," you go through an oath metal detector that sort of - that sort of purges the truth on you.

HUNT: You can only tell the truth.

WILLIAMS: Right.

But still, I - I just think it's all about what a jury believes and how much they can trust an individual. And when you have two competing statements, one of which might be true, you can believe it, but it's still really bad for that person. And, you know, a jury ought to question whether they believe the person today.

HUNT: How do you see breaking? Yes, go ahead.

BALL: Well, I think the - I think the question too is going to be, can Michael Cohen maintain his composure, right? I mean one major feature of the testimony yesterday was, he was cool, he was composed, he was - he was almost sort of soft-spoken. He was very sort of rational in the way he was responding to things. Anyone who's dealt with Michael Cohen knows he can be a bit of a hot head.

HUNT: Just a little bit.

BALL: And so when he's confronted with these contradictions, when the defense starts - and we know they're going to go after him very, very, very, very aggressively. And part of what they're going to be trying to do is to get under his skin and see if they can get him to react, get him to fly off the handle, get him to show more of that sort of bulldog that we all know from having dealt with him.

HUNT: Been on the other end of the line with, yes.

BALL: I certainly have as well. Great memories.

And so - and so I think, yes, it's the credibility. Because - and there are - you know, there are things in this case that they need Michael Cohen for because he's the only one who can say what Donald Trump was thinking in that moment. So, the jury has to be able to believe him.

HUNT: Yes. And, I mean, to kind of bring it back around to loyalty, I mean this is all - this is all happening because Michael Cohen was so loyal that he took out a loan on his own house to pay to cover this up.

All right, I will leave you with this. for the last few days the Washington state governors race had an odd feature. It featured three candidates with the same name, Bob Ferguson. If that seems too crazy to be a coincidence, seems like you are right. Washington's longtime attorney general, the Democratic front runner, Bob Ferguson, realized late last week that two more candidates named Bob Ferguson had suddenly entered the race. Both of those extra Bob Fergusons abruptly dropped out yesterday, just before the deadline, after the original Bob Ferguson threatened them with felony charges. It turns out that this apparent Bob mob was orchestrated by a conservative activist who tried to confuse voters. Ferguson calls the move and attempted attack on democracy and the election system. But he does say that he does not plan to prosecute at this point.

[07:00:04]

Fake electors, voting machine conspiracy theories, and now there are three Bobs. I guess anything goes. I mean this is - this is a new level like -

JENNINGS: ChatGPT can't come up with that political (ph) strategy.

HUNT: I know.

JENNINGS: I'm just saying, you need an actual human being to come up with the Bob strategy.

BALL: It's dirty tricks. You're right.

JENNING: No - no ChatGPT, even if it sounds like Scarlett, it's not coming up with that genius. I'm just saying.

HUNT: Definitely dirty tricks.

All right. All right, well, this has been fun. Thanks to the real Scott Jennings and the AI Scott Jennings for making an appearance today. Thanks to all of you for joining us. I'm Kasie Hunt. Don't go

anywhere. "CNN NEWS CENTRAL" starts right now.

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