Return to Transcripts main page
CNN This Morning
Michael Cohen Cross-Examined In Trump Hush Money Case; Blinken: U.S. Weapons Package Has Started Arriving In Ukraine; Republicans Line Up To Support Trump And Criminal Trial. Aired 5:30-6a ET
Aired May 15, 2024 - 05:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[05:30:00]
KASIE HUNT, CNN ANCHOR: All right, 5:28 a.m. -- just before 5:30 here on the East Coast. A live look at Washington, D.C. -- our Capitol. Good morning, everyone. I'm Kasie Hunt. It's wonderful to have you with us.
A key day in Donald Trump's hush money trial on Tuesday with Michael Cohen facing cross-examination from defense lawyers for the first time. Trump's lawyers attempting to use Cohen's own words against him and to portray him as a man bent on revenge against his former boss.
Cohen being asked -- Blanche: "On your first podcast, Mea Culpa, you referred to President Trump as a boorish cartoon misogynist, didn't you?" Cohen: "It sounds like something I would say."
And later -- Blanche: "You recall the first one in 2020 as a Cheeto- dusted cartoon villain?" Cohen: "That also sounds like something I said."
And finally -- Blanche: "You think you might have said 'I truly f***ing hope that this man ends up in prison.' Is that exact?" Cohen: "It sounds like my language on Mea Culpa." That, of course, is one of his podcasts.
In direct examination earlier in the day, Cohen told the court about a conversation with Trump after the FBI seized Cohen's phone records -- and records in a search warrant -- his phones and his records. Cohen testifying that Trump told him, "Don't worry. I am the President of the United States. There is nothing here. Everything is going to be OK. Stay tough. You are going to be OK."
Joining me now is trial attorney Kelly Hyman. Kelly, good morning to you. Thank you so much for being here.
Let's start with the conclusion of the direct examination because it did seem to have some of these critical details about the ultimate break that Michael Cohen had with Trump and the subsequent fire that he came in for from the former president.
What do you make of that sort of last admission there that was made and how it may impact whether or not there's ultimately a conviction? KELLY HYMAN, TRIAL ATTORNEY: Well, when we look at this we have to think when he was on the witness stand he was very compelling -- Michael Cohen. He answered yes or no questions and was direct and to the point.
And he reached a point in his life that basically he said he made a decision to pick his family over Trump, which was a very compelling story. I mean, American people love a comeback story. Something that did wrong that now is going to do something right.
And on the cross-examination, the defense counsel came in very, very hot and very, very hostile. His first question out of the box was talking about defense counsel and how Michael Cohen portrayed him on TikTok. The judge pulled him over and said why are you making this about yourself? Why aren't you making this about Cohen, which was potentially an error.
And there was no aha moment during the cross-examination. There was no moment of oh, I got you on this. So ultimately, it was a win for the prosecution.
HUNT: Interesting. I mean, yeah -- and we can put that up actually. So this was Todd Blanche, the president's defense attorney, saying to Cohen: "You went on TikTok and called me (Blanche) a 'Crying Little Shit,' didn't you?" Cohen: "Sounds like something I would say."
So basically, you're arguing this was something that made it look like this was about the lawyers and not actually about Donald Trump.
HYMAN: Michael Cohen has so much baggage. I mean, he has more baggage than you can fill in a department store. So why not start with all of his lies? He's lied. He's lied to Congress. He's liked to the American people -- and start with that? Start strong and help do that.
But also, the point that you made about the attorney generals -- that is very, very compelling testimony. So here we have, allegedly, the President of the United States basically saying don't worry about anything. Be loyal to me and you're going to get out of free jail card, which goes to the fact that potentially of the whole kind of conspiracy. The intent to hide this and the fact that listen, be loyal and we'll keep this under wraps.
HUNT: So one other figure that's coming into orbit -- the Trump orbit at this point -- and we heard about this in Cohen's direct examination yesterday -- is Rudy Giuliani. And there's an intermediary figure who is kind of going back and forth between Michael Cohen and Rudy Giuliani. And Cohen kind of details how he didn't really trust this guy. He thought everything he was telling him was going straight to Rudy Giuliani.
And this was how Rudy Giuliani was talking about Michael Cohen during this time period in an interview on Fox back then. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRIS WALLACE, THEN-FOX NEWS ANCHOR: You're at war with Michael Cohen now?
RUDY GIULIANI, FORMER TRUMP ATTORNEY: I don't -- I don't know. I don't think we're at war with him. He's destroyed himself, Chris, as a witness. I've prosecuted 5,000 cases. I'd never prosecute a case on this guy's testimony. He's contradicted so many times that -- I mean, you begin your cross-examination by saying which set of lies is he going to tell us today, Michael? Let's go through them now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: So this is before Cohen pleads guilty -- which is, of course, the breaking point between Cohen and Trump, who is out there urging Trump -- urging Michael Cohen to stay strong and to not flip.
[05:35:00]
How do you think the jury is going to take all of this in?
HYMAN: Well, the jury is going to listen to all the facts and evidence and make a determination on that. But we have to remember the state was very smart when they laid out this case. They started at the very beginning, starting with the story of the catch and kill and all these stories, and use documents to help substantiate the case.
They knew that Michael Cohen has some serious credibility issues as he's lied to Congress. He's lied before. So they needed documentation to prove that, and I think they did a very good job of doing that.
HUNT: All right, Kelly Hyman for us this morning. Kelly, thanks very much for taking some time to spend with us. I appreciate it.
HYMAN: Great to see you.
HUNT: All right.
Right now, U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken is in Kyiv in an unannounced visit to the Ukrainian capital. The visit comes as Russian troops launched a surprise attack over the past few days, taking a series of towns and villages in the Kharkiv region.
Blinken says U.S. military aid that had been blocked by Republican lawmakers is now making its way to the front lines. In a meeting with Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, Blinken reaffirmed America's support for Ukraine.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANTONY BLINKEN, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: Our joint task is to secure Ukraine's sustained and permanent strategic advantage so that Ukraine can not only deliver on the battlefield today but deter and defend against future attacks. As President Biden said, we want Ukraine to win, and we're committed to helping you do it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: All right, CNN's international editor Nic Robertson is live in London for us with more on this. Nic, good morning to you.
Clearly, a lot of symbolism in this visit from Blinken. The reality seems to be that Russia is making some gains in the war against Ukraine. Why is that, and what's next for them?
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yeah. It's hard to know what Russia's real objective here by this offensive around Kharkiv. Is it quite simply just to take territory and take advantage in that area? That Ukraine lacks the troops, lacks the ammunition because it's been slow in coming from the United States and from other allies and partners? Is that what Russia is doing, or is it part of a broader Russian campaign to attack at the north end of these hundreds and hundreds of miles long front line?
And it's attacking Zaporizhzhia -- the southern -- toward the southern end of that front line. And is its real intent to distract and pull off Ukrainian troops from other areas and then push more offensively in the center in the Donbas region, which is what they've been doing earlier this year?
The effective is very clear. They're taking ground. They're taking ground just over the Russian border. They're perhaps about 15 miles from the very outskirts of Kharkiv, which is Ukraine's second-biggest city. So this is -- this is not without potential consequence.
An important supply route and an important moral point for the Ukrainians, and kind of reinforces for them how weak and vulnerable they are. They've had to move troop positions along that front line overnight and they said they've turned to now sort of saving the troops' lives and equipment and repositioning to more -- to sort of better positions. But actually, in areas, they've had to pull back.
HUNT: Yeah.
Nic, The New York Times actually has put this on the front page this morning, saying that these gains are really worrying U.S. officials here, which sends a -- sends a signal when they're -- when they're talking with the Times, there's a relationship there.
They write that artillery and drones provided by the United States and NATO have been taken out by Russian electronic warfare techniques, which they say came to the battlefield late but that they have proven surprisingly effective -- which, of course, has broad implications potentially in other -- on other ways.
What do we know about that part of this effort and how Russia has been able to push back in surprising ways?
ROBERTSON: Yeah. I think look at the technology side of it, right? And that was a question Sec. Blinken asked this morning when he was touring a drone factory inside Ukraine -- which, by the way, is so sensitive there was no pool camera in there with him -- no pool video camera. And he asked that question -- you know, how do you keep pace with the changing technology and the fact that Russia does develop countermeasures -- that Ukraine develops countermeasures? And this has been the battle of the war if you will where the drone
has become king, but it's also vulnerable to electronic interference. I was with a drone team on the ground in Ukraine summer before last even where their drone crashed on takeoff because the Russian radio and technological interference brought it down.
But both sides are finding ways to cheat and beat each other with numbers of drones, of communications systems, of encryption -- all sorts of different methods.
[05:40:00]
But the amount of money that Russia is putting into this war of attrition -- look at -- look at the fact that they just announced a revamp of the Defense Ministry moving out the old guard -- you know, former Army veteran -- defense minister -- but moving in an economist. It's all about innovation, which is what this new defense minister said. It's about how you innovate. President Putin spoke about the same thing.
So, yeah, the technology --
HUNT: Yeah.
ROBERTSON: -- piece is hugely important. And again, as I say, Sec. Blinken picking up on that touring that drone facility.
HUNT: Yeah.
So in addition to touring a drone -- a drone facility, we should also note he went to a bar and jammed a little bit. I think the song was about freedom. Clearly, there was a message to be sent. But let's just watch a little bit of that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BLINKEN: Singing "Rockin' in the Free World."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: He's done this here at home a couple of times, too. I guess Sec. Blinken's cooler than we thought.
Nic Robertson, our CNN international diplomatic editor, thanks very much for being here. I really appreciate it.
All right. Coming up next here, is the Speaker of the House reading from a script that was written for him by Donald Trump? We'll play the tape and you can decide.
Plus --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NBA ANNOUNCER: Brunson spots up for three. Here come the Knicks.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: The New York Knicks one win away from advancing to the Eastern Conference Finals. Our Bleacher Report is coming up.
(COMMERCIAL)
[05:46:00]
HUNT: All right, welcome back.
Donald Trump allies flocking to Manhattan to visit the former president on trial. Yesterday, the Speaker of the House of Representatives, Mike Johnson, joined the ranks of Republicans defending the president from the courthouse. He sounded a lot like Trump.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: There's no crime here.
REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA): There's no crime here.
TRUMP: This is four weeks of keeping me from not campaigning.
JOHNSON: They are doing this intentionally to keep him here and keep him off of the campaign trail.
TRUMP: It could have been brought six years ago, seven years ago -- almost eight years ago.
JOHNSON: Now eight years later, suddenly, they've resurrected this thing.
TRUMP: We have a corrupt judge. You know who appointed him? Democrat politicians.
JOHNSON: What we've got here is a partisan Democrat district attorney. We have a Biden-donor judge.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: Well, that was pretty clear.
Joining me now, congressional reporter Mychael Schnell. Mychael, good morning.
MYCHAEL SCHNELL, CONGRESSIONAL REPORTER, THE HILL: Hey.
HUNT: Thanks for being here.
As you could see, the House Speaker quite literally, it seems, parroting Donald Trump here. What is the significance of this moment because it does seem like a really big deal that the Speaker of the House did this?
SCHNELL: Yeah, a really loyal soldier there in Manhattan. I think it's two-pronged when you talk about the significance of that trip to the courthouse. A) it shows that House Republicans are squarely behind former President Trump despite these legal entanglements -- despite this testimony, oftentimes embarrassing. Coming out against a former president.
We're entering into the final stretch -- well, close to the final stretch of campaign season. House Republicans -- Trump is their guy and they are standing firm behind him. That's the first significance.
The second thing is I think that Speaker Johnson sees some political expediency and political benefit in terms of going down to Manhattan and defending the former president so sharply. And that's because we saw last week he had a first threat to his gavel. Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene forcing a vote on ousting him from office. Former President Trump had expressed support for Johnson a number of times as Greene dangled this motion to vacate.
We even saw President Trump put out a statement that came our right after the vote, but albeit still urged Republicans to vote to table this motion to vacate.
So, clearly, Johnson sees that a good way to keep himself in office and keep himself protected from a conservative coup is aligning himself with former President Trump. He may be looking to try to keep his grasp on the gavel come next year and think that Trump could help him do that.
So it's sort -- the significance is two-part. A) Johnson sees himself and his future tied to Trump. But also, this is sending a signal that House Republicans are behind President Trump.
HUNT: Do you see -- I mean, these pictures -- these images are forever -- him standing behind Donald Trump in this courthouse. And I do think it's worth noting Johnson's history as a very devout Christian. And this is a trial that is about -- Donald Trump denies the allegations, but it is about a porn star who says that she had sex with him, and Donald Trump has -- I mean, these payments happened, right -- $130,000 to her to not tell this story. That does seem to acknowledge some truth at least in that even if Trump won't admit to it himself.
Does -- is there any world in which this comes back to haunt Mike Johnson?
SCHNELL: I mean, potentially, it could happen. But when you talk about sort of the near future, former President Trump is still the central figure of the Republican Party, right? He's the presumptive nominee. He easily trumped all other Republicans that were running against him in that primary.
HUNT: No pun intended.
SCHNELL: No pun intended.
It was a really glided path there. And we've also seen up on Capitol Hill the strong grasp that former President Trump has on Republicans. But I think in the short term, that's why we see him going down to
Manhattan, as you showed in that clip, mimicking Trump's language so closely.
[05:50:00]
But look, if there ends up being a conviction in this case, that could potentially change public appearance and public view of the situation down the road --
HUNT: Yeah.
SCHNELL: -- depending on what former President Trump's political career looks like in five years. Could this come back to haunt Mike Johnson? Sure, absolutely. But in the short term, he's clearly making the decision that this is the way he has to move forward.
HUNT: Everyone's view, right, is so short-term on this.
This was Johnson -- a little bit more of Johnson yesterday talking about Michael Cohen being bent on revenge. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHNSON: This is a man who is clearly on a mission for personal revenge and who is widely known as a witness who has trouble with the truth. He is someone who has a history of perjury and is well known for it. No one should believe a word he says today.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: Donald Trump, of course, also has some issues with the truth.
This was how our colleague Stephen Collinson, who kind of writes these big-picture sweeps, put it. He says, "These Republicans' desperation to move into the former president's inner circle is also ironic since Cohen has offered a cautionary tale in describing how he turned himself in to a bullying, lying clone of Trump to grab a piece of his power and reflected glory. His efforts ended -- as with many of Trump's associates -- in shame and landed him on the wrong side of the law as he went to prison partly because of his role in the hush money coverup."
And he does note that the speaker is not just some rising GOP lawmaker. The speaker's appearance is different given the constitutional heft of his office and the figurative connotations it evokes.
There is a reality here that getting yourself into Trump's inner circle -- like, you might -- you maybe should take a lawyer with you when you go at the outset.
SCHNELL: Yeah, and Michael Cohen, the lawyer, is now sort of having -- putting off these alarm bells -- being like hey, guys, take a lesson from me. I got sucked into this world. It put me behind bars. I spent time in prison. Don't go down this road. And he's sort of trying to air that warning right now. But as you put great in a -- in a very clear way.
At the same time, Mike Johnson is sort of brushing aside those warnings --
HUNT: Yeah.
SCHNELL: -- and so is J.D. Vance, and so is Vivek Ramaswamy, so is Byron Donalds -- and they're traveling to Manhattan.
I think it all gets back to the idea that Donald Trump is the central figure right now in the Republican Party. You put it perfectly before. These individuals are so tunnel-visioned, and they see things in such a short term and don't look at the long-term ramifications. At this current moment, Donald Trump is popular. They want to hitch their wagon to --
HUNT: Yeah.
SCHNELL: -- Trump and we'll see how that plays out. But, yeah. I mean, right now, that's what they see as the most positive way to play this.
HUNT: They are doing what they think they need to do to survive this moment right now.
SCHNELL: Um-hum.
HUNT: We'll see how history judges them.
Mychael Schnell, thanks very much.
SCHNELL: Thank you.
HUNT: I really appreciate your time.
All right, time now for sports. Caitlin Clark made her WNBA regular- season debut. Her pro career didn't exactly get off to the start she wanted.
Andy Scholes has this morning's Bleacher Report. Andy, good morning.
ANDY SCHOLES, CNN SPORTS ANCHOR: Yeah, good morning, Kasie.
You know, there's so much hype for Caitlin Clark. She's selling out arenas across the country. And her WNBA journey starting last night in Connecticut and Clark arriving in style to her first game. But her debut -- it got off to a slow start. Clark, 10 turnovers in this one, which is the most ever in a debut in WNBA history. And the number one overall pick in some foul trouble early as well. Didn't score in the first quarter and missed her first four shots.
Clark would heat up later in the game, eventually knocking down four threes to finish with 20 points. But she shot just five for 15 in this one.
The Fever would lose 92-71. Not the start Clark was hoping for, but she said she's going to learn
from it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CAITLIN CLARK, GUARD, INDIANA FEVER: Obviously, I'm disappointed and nobody likes to lose. Like, that's how it is. But I don't think you can beat yourself up too much about one game. I think -- I don't think that's going to help this team.
I don't think if no matter who it is on this team, nobody can do that with how they played. And just learn from it and move on. And I guess I'm just excited for Thursday to get back home and have our home opener. And I thought I -- I thought it took me a little while to settle into the game.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHOLES: All right, Madison Square Garden, meanwhile, was just rocking last night for game give between the Knicks and the Pacers.
Jalen Brunson just continuing his all-time great postseason with another stellar performance. He had 44 in this one.
And this series really getting heated now. Donte DiVincenzo and Myles Turner getting into it here. They exchanged words and had to be separated. They both get a technical.
And after losing by 32 in game four, the Knicks -- they win game five by 30 and they're now a win away from their first conference final since 2000.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JALEN BRUNSON, GUARD, NEW YORK KNICKS: One of the things that I've learned in the playoffs is that one game does not have any effect on the next. And so, no matter what the situation is -- whether you lose by one or lose by 30 -- and so -- it has nothing to do with the next game. So once we leave here tonight, this is over with. It's all about how do we prepare for game six.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHOLES: And all those people who counted out the Nuggets after falling behind 2-0 are probably feeling silly this morning.
[05:55:00]
Nikola Jokic getting his third MVP trophy before this game and then he just dominated game five. Jokic -- 40 points, 13 assists, and seven rebounds. He missed just seven shots all night long. He's going up against the Defensive Player of the Year as well.
Denver wins its third-straight game in this series to take a 3-2 lead -- 112-97 was the final there. In the Stanley Cup Playoffs, the Bruins -- well, they lived to fight
another day. Down 3-1 in the series, Charlie McAvoy with the second period goal here to put the Bruins on top 2-1, and that would be your final score. The Bruins sending that series back to Boston for a game six Friday night.
And, Kasie, the chance that we still get New York versus Boston in both the NHL and NBA is still alive, and that would certainly be pretty cool if both of those series end up happening.
HUNT: Uh, yeah. Some -- it's going to be a lot of intensity here on the East Coast.
Andy, thank you. I really appreciate it.
SCHOLES: All right.
HUNT: See you soon.
All right. Coming up next here, historic testimony from Michael Cohen. Did Donald Trump's lawyers do enough to convince the jury that they shouldn't believe him?
Plus, Florida Republican Congressman Cory Mills here to tell us why he just filed articles of impeachment against President Biden.
(COMMERCIAL)
